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I don't know I haven't seen a previous post like this if there is I will happily direct us over to it, Here lets all just sit and talk about random characters people have put together or are putting together and need advice on or need some input with. I am currently putting together a (Promethean Alchemist/Chirurgeon) Alchemist, I have no idea what he could do, It'd make sense to have him be joe shmoe fighter with upsurd healing after a battle basically taking place of the healer after combats and he'd provide the party with essentially two extra bodies in a fight, given his homunculous and himself but sadly neither are all that good at anything, You can take disable device and perception, a rogue is still better but it'd help, you could take all the knowledges you can and be semi knowledgable but it doesn
t seem that effective, and even then what race could it be a human to maybe get better armor idk, it seems like a fun build and just wanted some inputs on what could be feel free for anyone else do ask of a build they're working on as well.

I am sorry.

After reading through the PRD and some other rule books a little more I must say Sorry but US you are correct are not in fact natural attacks even though stated so a many cases as such. The description of an unarmed attack states that this attack is not a natural attack. However I have to argue that you argument then in this case is also invalid because no where is it also stated that an unarmed strike is treated as a manufactured weapon. So i then say this since this is the case and since many wordings in the core books say contradictory things including calling a unarmed strike natural as in magic weapon or specifically calling it not so in its description might we say that it is neither of the two which in this case forces the monk class ability to make perfect sense which in its wording gleams light on this situation. This states that

A monk's unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.(why would it say both if it was already manufactured?)

By this class feature we Must then assume that an US is neither a Natural nor a Manufactured weapon thus deserves clarification in some way shape or form. I will not argue this anymore for it is now my belief that the Rules of Pathfinder specifically contradict itself on this matter and DESERVE clarity so the argument is then settled for since the US is neither until SAID to be one or the other by way of an effect being placed upon it as worded in the class ability by it in fact saying "for the purpose of" we must take away that an US is neither a natural nor a manufactured weapon thus requires different rules all its own thus (and i'm sorry Scott) I believe neither argument has any salt because without it being natural nor being manufactured both arguments become INVALID. Until clarification is given about Unarmed Strike either the class ability or the attack.

Eh, unarmed strikes are sort of in a grey area between manufactured and natural weapons but are typically treated as manufactured. The Magic Weapon entry does create some doubt, but they're generally treated as manufactured weapons. They appear on the manufactured weapons table in the equipment chapter. Monsters which "do not have natural attacks" may still make unarmed strikes. And unarmed strikes can make iterative attacks which natural weapons are explicitly not allowed to do.

So despite the language in the Magic Weapon spell, unarmed strikes are generally treated as, and understood to be, manufactured weapons.

Hi fretgod I'm sorry to say this but the reason many people will consider it as a manufactured weapon is either do to needing a bonus for it being so as in a monks case or wearing armor of medium or heavy which in these cases gives the wearer a gauntlet thus the unarmed attack is with a gauntlet which IS a manufactured weapon

And you've still never explained how the Monk's unarmed strike stops being a manufactured weapon for natural attacks to have a -5. Since it's always counting as manufactured.

HI I am an outside member to this debate and recently today spoke with Scott in person on the matter now I was skeptical at first of his argument but his line of thinking was sound and while I agreed with many of you that since the unarmed strike was a manufactured weapon and thus effects of the monk ability would not apply (I personally had always thought that all unarmed strikes were considered natural weapons) and thus was shocked to discover this and as an example I was giving came up we decided to look at the spell Magic Weapon which I will quote here and give the link to the spell from the PRD that affirms that many of you have this idea wrong

"You can't cast this spell on a natural weapon, such as an unarmed strike (instead, see magic fang)."
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/magicWeapon.html#magic-weapon

Please copy paste the link.

And as you see here under the magic weapon spell an unarmed attack is CLEARLY stated to be a NATURAL attack/which means That ALL arguments on both sides are INVALID because both parties understanding of the rules on Unarmed Strikes were false.
(Sorry Scott not trying to sound mean).

Also if you wish to be technical I agree with the statement previously given that the monk class ability does in fact consider the monks unarmed strike Both of the two type however it only does so if it is being affected by something that would require it to be either Manufactured or Natural if neither is required then it stays its base type of NATURAL as this spell and by assumption other spells will state which in all cases allows what Scott has been saying throughout this thread to be true.

My apologies to those I may have offended with this post and wish to only settle this dispute by stating the falsehood in the main argument against one party.

Hi I understand that this is the ruled however is it me or does it make no sense that a physically larger objevt doesn't provide better protection in my case the shield would be almost as large as my character. Now could I also ask where you found this ruling so I can quote from it in my local game. Plz and ty.

Hi I understand that there are rules about weapon wieghts, prices and damages however after my last game as a paladin who focus's shield use i wondered since your weapons could be a size category larger like a friends character pregen had a large bastard sword for a melee weapon could I not do the same with my shield and if so how would that affect its ac bonus and ac penalty I've been searching both paizo and the internet and cannot find rules of this. I am currently playing in a local pfs game and know that it is legal to have larger weapons/shield because of legal archetypes and pregens with such things I also know it is legal to wield a "weapon" shield that is 1 size category larger than you since it is one handed. Could i ask someone to tell me where I might find rulings legal in pfs about wielding a larger shield please and thank you.

Thank you all for your help its just what i needed

Hi I am a player of pfs and well i have a few questions i usually look into books before purchasing as to know what im getting into and if i really need the book for use in my local game Inner Sea Combat I've looked into has an interesting Archetype for a Ranger that i might be interested in taking called the Sky Stalker i found this from a third party site and always confirm with friends if these things are legal and in the book before purchasing for myself however this time none of my friends own this book and i cannot find specifics of what new archetypes are legal for play i do know however that most of the book is legal i was hoping someone who owns the book or knows someone who does could tell me if it is so i can get the book knowing how little money i have to spend on purchasing these books isnt spent poorly on something that i cant use please and thank you

Hi Everyone I'm fairly new to these forums and have a question
I'm my weekly games of Pathfinder Society my character is a rogue and ever
since I hit second level I've realized that some of his original ability
scores are pointless now that I'm becoming level four and am able to gain
a ability score point to increase my characters overall usefulness but
having the points where they are currently its useless so I guess what I'm
trying to ask is
Is there a way to Reset or change your ability score or change it to better suit your build for a cost?