Without Fast Stealth, a character can use Stealth and still take a double move. If he moves 15' and then another 15', he can "double move" (a full-round action) for 30' with no penalty. If he moves 30' and then another 30', he can "double move" for 60' but takes a penalty on his Stealth check.
With Fast Stealth, he can "single move" for 30' or "double move" for 60' and take no penalty on the Stealth check.
isn't the term hustle?
Only for Overland travel.
In combat, its just a double move.
Only for Overland travel.
In combat, its just a double move.
meh that's boring. that's get it FAQed (considering all the other recent FAQ threads)
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isn't the term hustle?
I agree. The penalty for a hustle is -10 (according to the only applicable stealthing rules found under 'invisibility').
I believe 'full speed' equals your 'base speed' and by spending two move-actions moving allows one to surpass the typical 30ft by moving faster.
So the feat wouldn't aid you when moving beyond your base speed (hustling, running, charging etc).
i feel vindicated
Neither the spell, nor the special ability, make any mention of "hustle" that I see.
Spoiler:
The creature or object touched becomes invisible. If the recipient is a creature carrying gear, that vanishes, too. If you cast the spell on someone else, neither you nor your allies can see the subject, unless you can normally see invisible things or you employ magic to do so.Items dropped or put down by an invisible creature become visible; items picked up disappear if tucked into the clothing or pouches worn by the creature. Light, however, never becomes invisible, although a source of light can become so (thus, the effect is that of a light with no visible source). Any part of an item that the subject carries but that extends more than 10 feet from it becomes visible.
Of course, the subject is not magically silenced, and certain other conditions can render the recipient detectable (such as swimming in water or stepping in a puddle). If a check is required, a stationary invisible creature has a +40 bonus on its Stealth checks. This bonus is reduced to +20 if the creature is moving. The spell ends if the subject attacks any creature. For purposes of this spell, an attack includes any spell targeting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe. Exactly who is a foe depends on the invisible character's perceptions. Actions directed at unattended objects do not break the spell. Causing harm indirectly is not an attack. Thus, an invisible being can open doors, talk, eat, climb stairs, summon monsters and have them attack, cut the ropes holding a rope bridge while enemies are on the bridge, remotely trigger traps, open a portcullis to release attack dogs, and so forth. If the subject attacks directly, however, it immediately becomes visible along with all its gear. Spells such as bless that specifically affect allies but not foes are not attacks for this purpose, even when they include foes in their area.
Invisibility can be made permanent (on objects only) with a permanency spell.
Spoiler:
The ability to move about unseen is not foolproof. While they can't be seen, invisible creatures can be heard, smelled, or felt.Invisibility makes a creature undetectable by vision, including darkvision.
Invisibility does not, by itself, make a creature immune to critical hits, but it does make the creature immune to extra damage from being a ranger's favored enemy and from sneak attacks.
A creature can generally notice the presence of an active invisible creature within 30 feet with a DC 20 Perception check. The observer gains a hunch that “something's there” but can't see it or target it accurately with an attack. It's practically impossible (+20 DC) to pinpoint an invisible creature's location with a Perception check. Even once a character has pinpointed the square that contains an invisible creature, the creature still benefits from total concealment (50% miss chance). There are a number of modifiers that can be applied to this DC if the invisible creature is moving or engaged in a noisy activity.
Invisible creature is... Perception
DC Modifier
In combat or speaking –20
Moving at half speed –5
Moving at full speed –10
Running or charging –20
Not moving +20
Using Stealth Stealth check +20
Some distance away +1 per 10 feet
Behind an obstacle (door) +5
Behind an obstacle (stone wall) +15
A creature can grope about to find an invisible creature. A character can make a touch attack with his hands or a weapon into two adjacent 5-foot squares using a standard action. If an invisible target is in the designated area, there is a 50% miss chance on the touch attack. If successful, the groping character deals no damage but has successfully pinpointed the invisible creature's current location. If the invisible creature moves, its location, obviously, is once again unknown.If an invisible creature strikes a character, the character struck knows the location of the creature that struck him (until, of course, the invisible creature moves). The only exception is if the invisible creature has a reach greater than 5 feet. In this case, the struck character knows the general location of the creature but has not pinpointed the exact location.
If a character tries to attack an invisible creature whose location he has pinpointed, he attacks normally, but the invisible creature still benefits from full concealment (and thus a 50% miss chance). A particularly large and slow invisible creature might get a smaller miss chance.
If a character tries to attack an invisible creature whose location he has not pinpointed, have the player choose the space where the character will direct the attack. If the invisible creature is there, conduct the attack normally. If the enemy's not there, roll the miss chance as if it were there and tell him that the character has missed, regardless of the result. That way the player doesn't know whether the attack missed because the enemy's not there or because you successfully rolled the miss chance.
If an invisible character picks up a visible object, the object remains visible. An invisible creature can pick up a small visible item and hide it on his person (tucked in a pocket or behind a cloak) and render it effectively invisible. One could coat an invisible object with flour to at least keep track of its position (until the flour falls off or blows away).
Invisible creatures leave tracks. They can be tracked normally. Footprints in sand, mud, or other soft surfaces can give enemies clues to an invisible creature's location.
An invisible creature in the water displaces water, revealing its location. The invisible creature, however, is still hard to see and benefits from concealment.
A creature with the scent ability can detect an invisible creature as it would a visible one.
A creature with the Blind-Fight feat has a better chance to hit an invisible creature. Roll the miss chance twice, and he misses only if both rolls indicate a miss. (Alternatively, make one 25% miss chance roll rather than two 50% miss chance rolls.)
A creature with blindsight can attack (and otherwise interact with) creatures regardless of invisibility.
An invisible burning torch still gives off light, as does an invisible object with a light or similar spell cast upon it.
Ethereal creatures are invisible. Since ethereal creatures are not materially present, Perception checks, scent, Blind-Fight, and blindsight don't help locate them. Incorporeal creatures are often invisible. Scent, Blind-Fight, and blindsight don't help creatures find or attack invisible, incorporeal creatures, but Perception checks can help.
Invisible creatures cannot use gaze attacks.
Invisibility does not thwart divination spells.
Since some creatures can detect or even see invisible creatures, it is helpful to be able to hide even when invisible.
The -10 penalty is for moving "full speed." Which is exactly the penalty that the feat is getting rid of.
In this case, moving "full speed" would be moving your full base speed as a move action. You could still make two such actions in one round and still only be moving "full speed." To move faster than this, you have to "Run" which you cannot do while using Stealth, and imparts a bigger penalty if using Invisibility.
isn't the term hustle?I agree. The penalty for a hustle is -10 (according to the only applicable stealthing rules found under 'invisibility').
I believe 'full speed' equals your 'base speed' and by spending two move-actions moving allows one to surpass the typical 30ft by moving faster.
So the feat wouldn't aid you when moving beyond your base speed (hustling, running, charging etc).
This is not correct. Two separate move actions at your base speed (e.g. 30 for humans) is still "moving normal speed". You're just doing it twice in the same round. Alternatively, you could do it once and then stop moving to swing a sword or cast a spell or some such. In either case, each move action is your base speed.
i feel vindicated
Don't. You weren't.
The -10 penalty is for moving "full speed." Which is exactly the penalty that the feat is getting rid of.
In this case, moving "full speed" would be moving your full base speed as a move action. You could still make two such actions in one round and still only be moving "full speed." To move faster than this, you have to "Run" which you cannot do while using Stealth, and imparts a bigger penalty if using Invisibility.
This is correct.
isn't the term hustle?I agree. The penalty for a hustle is -10 (according to the only applicable stealthing rules found under 'invisibility').
I believe 'full speed' equals your 'base speed' and by spending two move-actions moving allows one to surpass the typical 30ft by moving faster.
So the feat wouldn't aid you when moving beyond your base speed (hustling, running, charging etc).This is not correct. Two separate move actions at your base speed (e.g. 30 for humans) is still "moving normal speed". You're just doing it twice in the same round. Alternatively, you could do it once and then stop moving to swing a sword or cast a spell or some such. In either case, each move action is your base speed.
i feel vindicatedDon't. You weren't.
The -10 penalty is for moving "full speed." Which is exactly the penalty that the feat is getting rid of.
In this case, moving "full speed" would be moving your full base speed as a move action. You could still make two such actions in one round and still only be moving "full speed." To move faster than this, you have to "Run" which you cannot do while using Stealth, and imparts a bigger penalty if using Invisibility.
This is correct.
This definitely NOT correct!
You have to take several definitions into account.
First
Definition of Speed:
Rules Link
Speed
Your speed tells you how far you can move in a round and still do something, such as attack or cast a spell. Your speed depends mostly on your size and your armor.
Dwarves, gnomes, and halflings have a speed of 20 feet (4 squares), or 15 feet (3 squares) when wearing medium or heavy armor (except for dwarves, who move 20 feet in any armor).
Humans, elves, half-elves, half-orcs, and most humanoid monsters have a speed of 30 feet (6 squares), or 20 feet (4 squares) in medium or heavy armor.
If you use two move actions in a round (sometimes called a "double move" action), you can move up to double your speed. If you spend the entire round running, you can move up to quadruple your speed (or triple if you are in heavy armor).
Second
Description of AcrobaticsRules Link
In addition, you can move through a threatened square without provoking an attack of opportunity from an enemy by using Acrobatics. When moving in this way, you move at half speed. You can move at full speed by increasing the DC of the check by 10. You cannot use Acrobatics to move past foes if your speed is reduced due to carrying a medium or heavy load or wearing medium or heavy armor. If an ability allows you to move at full speed under such conditions, you can use Acrobatics to move past foes. You can use Acrobatics in this way while prone, but doing so requires a full-round action to move 5 feet, and the DC is increased by 5. If you attempt to move through an enemy's space and fail the check, you lose the move action and provoke an attack of opportunity.
So with a "double move" you move more than you speed up to DOUBLE your speed and acrobatics states that you can use acrobatics at FULL speed (not DOUBLE speed).
The most significant point is that speed is not how far you can move per action but PER ROUND. So it is not relevant if you use one or two actions to get somewhere but how far you actually move in that round.
Hargor, isn't it possible to interpret the Acrobatics skill to apply per move action? That is, let's say I've moved 30 feet in an open area, ending my move in an unthreatened square. But I want to be on the far side of an opponent who threatens the square right in front of me.
I'd have just assumed that I could simply spend a second move action to get through that square to the unthreatened area beyond w/ an Acrobatics check. If I'm content w/ moving a total of 45 feet this turn, the second move would be vs the foe's CMD. If I want full speed for the second move, it would be vs CMD+10.
You're saying, no, acrobatics doesn't apply to a second move in one turn? The definition you cite says (with different bolding):
Your speed tells you how far you can move in a round and still do something, such as attack or cast a spell. Your speed depends mostly on your size and your armor. (...)
If you use two move actions in a round (sometimes called a "double move" action), you can move up to double your speed. If you spend the entire round running, you can move up to quadruple your speed (or triple if you are in heavy armor).
{Added:} Clearly, the skill (and presumably, the rogue's ability) would not apply to full-round actions like running and charging.