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QuidEst wrote:
Cursed Immovable Rod… it never stops moving.

Lol i second this one, the quest to get it would be hilarious


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To contribute to the discussion:

one method i have seen is a breakdown into 4 levels of success.

level 1 - roll is equal to DC
You know the general gist of the monster, which is achieved by reading the monster description to the players (editing if necessary, if say the descriptions mentions the monster's SLA by name for example)

level 2 - roll = DC+5
You get level 1 plus, you get an overview of the monster's typical offensive and defense, any special resistances/weaknesses etc. but not their actual values

level 3 - roll = DC+10
You get level 2 plus, you get the full overview of all the monsters stats and special abilities

level 4 - roll = DC+15
You may have the bestiary open to the monster's page and read it's stats during combat


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pennywit wrote:
My favorite identification moment was in a game of Changeling. Our combat guy went into combat with something big and nasty. I tried to ID it. Botch. GM: "It's a cockatrice." Me, yelling to combat guy: "It's a cockatrice!! Don't look directly at it!!" Another player tried to ID it, and also botched. He added, "It's a cockatrice!!! Don't look directly at it!!!" The combat guy's player kind of looked at us, shook his head, and said, "OK, I don't look directly at it. What kind of penalties do I take?"

I have a similar story:

The Barbarian with no knowledge skills wonders off during a dungeon (for reasons) and runs into a Chimera. Manages to escape and get back to the party and as a pure roleplaying gaff claims he has seem a Hydra in the dungeon (it had multiple heads after all, and he had low int and wis). Party then prepares for the Hydra, enters the room and slays the Chimera reasonably quickly. Party wizard with uber knowledge checks (played by myself), looks at the creature and begins speaking "Silly barbarian that's not a Hydra its a.." Rolls dice, natural 1 "...Hydra". Party Rogue looks at the corpse "Are you on crack wizard that is clearly..." rolls a natural 1 "...a Hydra". GM shakes his head, NPC lord which is present "Are you all mad that is most certainly..." (players demand the GM roll) natural 1 "...a hydra!". Party travels back to town and triumphantly tells the story of how they slew a Hydra! LMAO

Edit: It is worth noting for any new players, that we had a house rule that a natural 1 on any d20 roll was a critical failure for comedic effect. Technically in PF a 1 is no different than any other number when it comes to skill checks.


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Toblakai wrote:

Time to invoke Godwin's law:

Is killing Hitler in his sleep evil?

Yes, so is torturing him. Doing evil things to evil people does not change the act to be "non-evil". As human beings we feel its more justifiable to do evil to evil people as that is a way for us to appease our anger at them and guilt for doing horrible things to them, but that still doesn't make it right.

In regards to the original post though, I would say the actions of your party were dishonorable and evil (murder [and possible murder of innocents, being evil is not a crime nor does it mean you have committed any evil at all, just that you are more likely to], deception leading to injury and death of others, mutilating corpses, pre-meditated murder [of the rest of the temple]).

However context is king and if I was the GM I would not call for alignment changes for it, the characters did not commit the evil for its own sake (i.e. they didn't murder them because it was just more fun that way) and they only acted dishonorably because doing otherwise could have easily (and probably) lead to their deaths.

The Paladin however is a sticky case and it depends on exactly what he did and why, and how literal the God he follows is with the code.


As written the only requirement would be that the caster have some amount of familiarity with the creature created (so that they would be able to create a sculpture in its likeness). But the creature doesn't need to be present.


I find it strange that people constantly make the connection that the rules of a given system are somehow linked to the role-playing of that system. The rules merely provide a framework for how the players may interact with the world, the way in which they choose to role-play is still completely up to them.

Role-playing is a universal thing, it is the same for all role-playing games, for any of those that have played multiple editions of D&D you will know this to be true because you will have had similar role-playing experiences in each edition even though the editions have vastly different rule sets.

I believe the issue arises from peoples expectation that the rules will line up with their perception of the games reality. The best example I can think of from personal experience was during a recent game when a player who was new to the game was playing a druid for the first time, during an encounter they were grappled by an owl-bear, as a reaction they attempted to use their newly acquired wild shape ability to turn into a snake to escape the grapple. They were then immediately disappointed to discover that this had very little mechanical effect for escaping grapples (especially with the vast difference in the owl-bear's check and their CMD) and were then upset that the rules had robbed them of a role-playing opportunity.

Some might ague that this is counter to my point above about how the rules are not connected to role-playing. But while the rules did not support the action the player wanted to take there were many other options the player could have chosen that are supported by the rules, and so the issue lay with the player's perception of what the rule system should allow.


Ithnaar wrote:
Seranov wrote:
You know what makes good characters? Good storytelling. Guess how much of that is effected by whether you optimize or not. Take your time to answer, I'll wait.

I'm glad you waited!

It most definitely affects it.

Characters without a 20 STR have to think about how to get past a barred door.

Characters without a +20 Bluff need a plan for how they are going to get past the city guards.

Characters that aren't Combat Monsters have to frequently consider whether fighting a certain opponent is a good idea or not.

The sort of supreme ability that maximum optimization allows lets you effortlessly sidestep thousands of what would otherwise be great storytelling opportunities.

One of the elements of good storytelling is victory through overcoming dangerous obstacles. With optimized characters, a great many of those obstacles are inconsequential.

The character with STR 20 still needs to think about how to get past the door if they don't want to alert the nearby guards.

The character with bluff +20 will still needs to think of a good lie to convince the guards with, simply stating "because i can bluff good you should let me in...also reasons!" should receive a -20 to the roll, meanwhile the guy with +5 Bluff who comes up with a lie they want to believe nets a +10 to the roll.

Any character encountering a monster will need to asses their strength against it, it doesn't matter how well optimized you 1st level paladin is, he is not killing a CR20 dragon in single combat any time soon.

If characters are overpowering their encounters it is the fault of the GM not the players, the GM is in control of the entire multiverse, if that is not enough to challenge the players something is horribly wrong.

Encounters which are difficult for some will be trivial to others, this is a universal law and has nothing to do with optimization, the game has a built in level mechanic. If a GM is giving encounters of 3 standard goblins versus a group of 20th level player characters, it is not the fault of the PCs that the encounter is trivial.


Cevah wrote:

@GreyFox776: You do understand that 4800 hours = 600 man-days that I mentioned in the OP? :-)

/cevah

Yeah, sorry not directed at you. Should have added the quote, but was using my phone at the time :P

Corvino wrote:
Playing for 8 hours per day will get you 4800 man hours of work


Just a quick note on the math, the lyre is better than you are giving it credit for. The lyre produces "The effect produced in 30 minutes of playing is equal to the work of 100 humans laboring for 3 days.", using an 8 hour day as standard (which pops up in other places in the rules for crafting if I recall correctly) that is 100x8x3 hours of work produced every 30 minutes of playing which equals 4,800 hours of work per check you need to make.

In regards to what can be made, as always it's up to the GM but since it can make buildings and mines it can certainly do work that requires skilled labourers and the "etc" seems to indicate it is capable of doing at least a few other things


I have just recently had this same issue, my solution was a human wizard with 20 starting Int (18 + 2 racial), student of philosophy (social) and world traveler (human) traits, for magic items the headband of intellect +2 bonus skill is bluff. So in total (adjusted for level 4):

Diplomacy +6(Int)+3(Class)+1(trait)+4(ranks) = 14 (before magic items)
Bluff +6(Int)+4(ranks) = 10 (before magic items)

sense motive is more for the druid or cleric in the party anyway, and disguise can be covered with spells and items if really needed.

*Note - SoP only adds int to some (not all) diplomacy and bluff rolls, but they cover almost all uses of those skills that a face wants (with the exception being maybe gather info).

And as Ragoz has said there are plenty of magic items that boost this through the roof.


Thanael wrote:

+1 for checking out Eberron (which is originally a 3e setting) It is a great setting.

Though I can't imagine a da Vinci like magical engineering prodigy fitting into the Lands of the Linnorm Kings.

Yeah I will give Eberron a look, sounds interesting.

I never said i would be successful in instituting sweeping change, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't try. Looking at the world info though I don't think it's too big of a stretch because Torag is one of the regions main deities, so the idea of engineered solutions won't be too foreign, now the magic side of things might cause an issue, but conflict is the essence of drama so it just provides RP opportunity


wabbitking wrote:
what kind of envirement is this land dessert mountains?

To the best of my knowledge it is mostly small islands and frozen tundra in the starting area. My understanding is that the area our characters are from has a rather viking feel to it.

Edit: Just found out it is part of the core PF setting, the starting area is in the Lands of the Linnorm Kings


Oli Ironbar wrote:

Permanent Telekinesis on an engine or turbine:

I would estimate 12.5k gold for 13th lvl caster, based on Wall of Force which is same level as Telekinesis.

The maximum work generated would be 325lbs at 130ft/6sec = 7051.6ftlbs/sec, which is about 12.8 horse power.

For comparison, the Wright Brothers had a 12 horse power engine in their first powered flight. This engine weighed 180lbs, which was about a third of the weight of the whole plane (thank you wikipedia), so this virtually weightless engine would increase speed and maneuverability enough to make reliable early aircraft.

(I will assume here that the spell is cast on something at the start of the drive train and not the propeller itself. Otherwise the propeller would keep spinning even after the plane crashes, which nobody except the sickist GM's would want).

More interestingly however, 12.8 horsepower could (assuming >90% efficiency, due to a single, magical moving part) produce about 10 kilowatts of electricity, without requiring the consumption of any materials.

For scale, 10 kilowatts would power one hundred 100w lightbulbs, power an average sized radio station, or operate an industrial laser (thank you again wikipedia).

This puts a single Telekinetic turbine at the level of individual use, and at a cost that would be prohibitive for most... other than PCs and certain NPC in remote Goblin workshops, mwahaha...

So if you are looking for something mechanical, somewhere in the steam-punk, turn of the century, or early modern range, with a range of applications -- Telekinetic turbine it is.

Unless of course, you want post-apocalyptic, for which a zero-emission engine that never stops running could either be a tool for transforming the planet back into a sustainable habitat, or the means by which marauding bandits race though wasteland after wasteland in their pursuit of evil-aligned things.

Mwahaha!
Oli

Very nice, I was just reading telekinesis with that in mind, it would be a game changer that's for sure. Now all we have to do is bump that 13 Horsepower up to a few thousand and we have a viable locomotive that doesn't require fuel :)


Found another one:
Have a 20th level Cleric or Witch cast animate objects on 10 medium sized mannequins, then cast permanency. Net effect is a robot production line costing 1.5K per robot (you could also just make small robots which would cost 750 gp each)


Or a more cost effective version for lower levels

Intelligent Item - 500 gp
Int Stat (16) - 2,000 gp
Alignment (LG) - 0 gp
Speech - 500 gp
Read Languages - 1,000 gp
Read Magic - 2,000 gp
1 Skill Ranks (Every Knowledge)- 5,000 gp (2,500 x 2)*
Purpose (Educate owner) - 0 gp

Total - 11,000 gp

*would require special GM permission, RAW says item can have 5 skill ranks in 1 skill for 2,500. I have made the assumption here that a GM might allow for 1 rank in 5 similar skills for the same price


Milo v3 wrote:
My PF group recently saw Age of Ultron so they aren't letting my Lawful Evil Stark expy touch anything with Intelligence for a while unfortunately. Sentient equipment is quite a boon to nearly any device.

Lol, but didn't they watch up to the end, not all AI are bad :P

Just did a quick build for a "Bob the Skull" type intelligent item (for those unfamiliar with Dresden files, Bob is a spirit of intelligence bound to a skull that acts like an adviser and basically knows everything)

Intelligent Item - 500 gp
Int Stat (20) - 8,000 gp
Alignment (LG) - 0 gp
Speech - 500 gp
Read Languages - 1,000 gp
Read Magic - 2,000 gp
Ghost Sound at Will - 1,000 gp
Silent Image 3/day - 1,200 gp
10 Skill Ranks (Every Knowledge)- 100,000 gp (10,000 x 10)
Purpose (Educate owner) - 0 gp

Total - 114,200 gp

*This assumes that its ok to have an item that is just intelligent without a base item to add it to.


The Indescribable wrote:

I suggest blimps. Massive metal skeletons are spelled with heat spells that give it it's lift. I'm sure there's one that will provide thrust.

Nice Blimps are now definitely on the list :)

Milo v3 wrote:
For example, I made computers by enchanting a book with silent image as a holographic interface and detect magic to sense for specific versions of spell schools that touch the surface of the illusion.

Just had a read of the intelligent item rules, i think your computer idea would work well with them. Make a Lawful Good Book with intelligence, charisma and wisdom of 18 with a special purpose to teach and educate people, give it the ability to speak and use minor image at will. So its now the best teacher there could be with the ability to show presentations and keeps its students welfare in mind and drives them to excel, and the best part it never grows old and dies and is always dedicated to its purpose. Admittedly its a lot more expensive but very effective.


Some of the ideas i am currently looking at but don't have solid ideas on yet:
The printing press
Mass communication
Travel through teleportation (as mentioned with Tippyverse stuff)
Knowledge repositories (maybe by creating magical intelligent books, basically stealing the idea of Bob from the Dresden Files series on this one)
Magic Engine (steam engine but with magic)
Flying ships


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I am about to join a new campaign that will be starting at low-mid level and hopefully going to high level by the end. Our characters will be in close with a local ruler from the beginning of the campaign, and I will be playing the party wizard (typical "God" build, with some RP fluff thrown in).

This will be a RP heavy game and so I have decided that to add some flavor to my wizard by making him a bit of a visionary inventor type who wants to make the world a better place using magic and knowledge (so basically Leonardo da Vinci with spells :P).

Which brings me to my first question, does anyone have any suggestions for things from our world that would improve a stereotypical D&D world (either magical or mundane) that a wizard with the right skills and magic could create?

I have already had a read through the "Tippyverse" stuff which is right up the alley that I want with things like using permanent teleportation circles to join the cities of a kingdom for super fast travel and trade.

and the second question, does anyone have any ideas for things that could be invented in a D&D style world using magic that could not possibly exist in our world due to lack of magic and physics?


Avenka Thalma wrote:
@GreyFox776 : I try to do the host/client thing with the same computer (like you said, I would take the client instance to go to tv), but I don't know how to "link" those two instances to the same game. Do I need to start a server in the Files option ?

Yep on the host go to file menu and start server, then on the client go to file menu connect to server, look for the one you hosted in the LAN section


Avenka Thalma wrote:
Another question regarding maptool : do they get to control their pcs or do I do it for them if they have a pc computer ? If they go beyond a blocked vision, do they see the other side ?

you can do either, you can set a setting that makes it so only you can reveal the fog of war, and another setting to allow players to reveal it themselves while moving around


Avenka Thalma wrote:

3- In the game yesterday, I switched to maptools, and I had "players view" on on my TV for everyone to see, but the thing is, it's in a dark place, and many times, I had to move the screen just to my computer, add a monster or recheck the map with the GM view to be sure of where they were going, and then put it back on TV, and they found the experience too long for what it brought to the game.

I have the same set up as you (computer and TV) and also use maptool. The answer is pretty simple. Set you TV to be monitor 2, then run 2 copies of maptool, place one copy on your computer screen and the other on the TV, then use the computer copy as host and the TV as client. Finally in the host copy set lock player view to my view and you are good to go.

hope that makes sense :)


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LuxuriantOak wrote:

"the greater good" or

"evil is good"

basically: there is a threat so horrible, either a natural force or enemies that the only way to combat it is to turn to dark arts.

Hellbound.
The concept I'm going for is something more like the warhammer 40k setting. Maybe the world itself is unravelling and the only way to avoid the decline is to sacrifice magicians. So until we find a better way, we hunt them and sacrifice them in an ongoing grand ritual at the worldheart. most people don't know about this and only know of the holy (if your faction of choice responsible is religious) or stalwart adventurers that are fighting to protect the land. the borders are patrolled harshly to avoid knowledge about the end to spread.
the further you travel from the know lands the more the world is broken: bits of land floating in the air, crazy weather, worse monsters and beasts. weird people travel in the outskirts, some say that the key to saving us all is lost outside the known land in the cataclysm.

-so it's basically the plot from bastion through the eyes of darker than black with a sprinkle of cheliax.

As an adaption of this, if you wanted to take advantage of players that live by the creed "Spell Casters = Win!" you could make it that it turns out that magic is finite and all those casters casting all those spells has lead to the unraveling of the world, now secret squads are being sent out to hunt down and kill any spell caster they can find meanwhile other heroes must venture out into the cataclysm in search of the dingus that will refill the worlds magic reserves


The "Dresdenverse" has a rather interesting approach to the duality struggle when dealing with the courts of the fey.

Essentially it boils down to Summer versus Winter. The interesting thing is that to begin with it seems like the standard good vs evil, but the more in depth you go you begin to see that they are really just 2 sides of the 1 coin, ie winter appear to be the baddies because they are cold and unforgiving of weakness (very school of hard knocks), and summer very nurturing and forgiving. But either approach can be good or bad depending on the circumstance, if training someone for combat for example its better to be a bit rough with them then it is to coddle them and leave them un-prepared for when an opponent will not give them a moment to catch their breath in the middle of a fight.

The best part is one of the core problems the hero has to deal with is that its bad if either side "wins" or even gets too much of an upper hand, if winter wins world gets an ice age and if summer wins then world one massive dessert. So the main theme ends up being balance is whats important.


Fair enough, thanks for taking the time to discuss it with me, its good having someone else to bounce ideas off when confused about the way something works.


Claxon wrote:
It can provoke up to 2. If you have Improved Overrun then the maneuver itself doesn't provoke. If you use Acrobatics successfully then you will not provoke for your movement. So, with those things in place Overrun can provoke 0 attacks of opportunity.

That seems like a lot of investment in order to get the maneuver to not suck so bad.

I will agree that straight reading of the rules indicates the 2 AoOs on overrun (and bull rush given the circumstances), but i still think there is some grey area around what is intended. I generally prefer to side with spirit of the rules where it is possible to discern them, in this case it seems like the rules for the combat maneuvers were designed without movement in mind, the spirit seems to be (at least with the other non movement ones) that you provoke an AoO unless you take a special feat.


Claxon wrote:


Also, remember that you only provoke once per creature for moving. So you will not provoke for moving out of the square in front of them, and then again for moving out of their square. You only provoke once for the entire movement.

So then overrun always provokes 2 AoO? (the first for declaring the overrun and the second for moving out of the square in front of the opponent)

Or

The AoO provoked by overrun is due to the movement, which means with improved overrun the AoO provoked by movement is negated and since movement only ever provokes 1 AoO then having reach will still mean no AoO


Wouldn't you still technically threaten the square you occupy?

If so then overrun will always provoke an AoO, because you first move into the opponents square (which you are right does not provoke) but in so doing you have also moved out of the square in front of the opponent which will also provoke an AoO since overrun doesn't say that the AoO that is caused by the overrun attempt is due to the initial square of movement. After that you must then also move out of the square occupied by the opponent into some other square you can occupy which will provoke again.


You may be over estimating my grasp on the rules lol

wouldn't this also then mean that if someone has combat reflexes and is bull rushed they could potentially take 5 or more AoOs at the attacker, due to being pushed back.

Lets call the squares A through G like so:

A-B-C-D-E-F-G

attacker starts in A
defender starts in C [defender has 5 foot reach]

attacker declares bull rush: provokes an AoO which defender cant take as the attacker is too far away (or if attack has improved bulls rush)

attacker then steps into B

attacker makes roll and pushes defender all the way back to G, and chooses the option to follow so he will end in F

defender has combat reflexes which then allows him to take 5 AoOs because as the defender is pushed back a square his threaten range continues to fall back a square each time as well. In order for the attacker to follow he must pass through the defender's threatened squares.

So defender goes from C to D (now threatens C), then from D to E (now threatens D) and so on.

it seems to me that the spirit of the rule is that if you attempt to bull rush or overrun an opponent and you have the relevant improved feat the defender should be denied an AoO due to how awesome you are at that particular thing. With what we currently discussed, with either maneuver you will always provoke at least 2 AoOs to perform either one (and many more in the case of Bull Rush), given that most badies will have only 1 AoO for the turn this makes the improved feats "You dont provoke and AoO" line meaningless.


But doesn't that mean that overrun will in almost all situations cause an AoO?

for example if fighter 1 with overrun is standing directly in front of the fighter 2, fighter 1 attempts overrun and wants to move through to the square opposite fighter 2 (so he is now essentially behind him). Without the improved overrun feat the maneuver provokes an AoO (we will assume for now that fighter 2 does not have combat reflexes), but with the feat fighter 1 doesn't provoke an AoO for the maneuver but will still provoke for leaving the threatened square either in front of fighter 2 or possibly even from leaving the square that fighter 2 currently occupies.

Considering the vast majority of creatures only have a single AoO if the above is the case it seems as though the improved overrun feat is completely pointless (ie will only help if your opponent has combat reflexes).


Searched through some old threads on this but couldn't find the answer, so please forgive as i am sure it would have been asked before.

Question: If trying to overrun an opponent with reach while having the improved overrun feat mean that at no point during the character's movement does the reach creature get an AoO?

Example: Creature with improved overrun and move of 10 squares starts turn 3 squares away from an ogre. Creature declares an overrun attempt and will try to move forward through the ogre's space and onward for full movement. Does the ogre at any point get an AoO at the creature trying to overrun?

Thanks in advance guys and gals.


285. All sea voyages will involve attack by a Kraken


Wow some interesting ideas happened here over the week lol :)

I've had a look into some higher level spells and with the consideration of custom magic items and the permanency spell i have to say i was way off base with my original post, but in this instance I'm very happy to be wrong :)

here are some findings:

Permanent teleportation circles: Cost is a measly (in kingdom building terms) 23.5K meaning if someone wanted to spend the money you could link up your entire kingdom in a network of teleporters! No more travel time between cities, i can only imagine what this would do to trade and to the lively hood of bandits.

Permanent image: Cast once on a classroom on a 6 month loop of teaching subject X, now the university lecturers can get on with finding better uses of their magical talents then teaching new students the basics of magic (or any other field of study). I admit this one stretches it a bit lol...

Continual Flame: Candle costs 1 cp and burns for 1 hour. Oil in lantern or lamp burns cost 1 sp burns for 6 hours. Torch costs 1 cp burns for 1 hour. Continual flame costs 50 gp burns forever...Seems like a no brainer in kingdom building terms just think of those long term savings lol.

Animate Dead: Discussions of evil aside nothing beats cheap labor in a medieval society, and these guys work for free...and never ever stop working...ever.

Craft Construct: A more expensive version of above but without the debate over the evilness of necromancy.

Make whole: Dragon destroy your house? Call crazy Bob's wizard repairs and have your home back good as new tomorrow!

Mending: This spell and the one above could destroy entire industries of disposable goods. Again a slight stretch based on availability of casters but i see potential there.

Move earth: Need land cleared and leveled fast? Call crazy Bob's for one day turn around on large squares of land. disclaimer crazy Bob's will not be held accountable for damage caused to or from underground dwelling creatures during or after construction work has begun...

Shrink Item: If you need to transport large good or even just a large amount of goods and expect to only take a few days (more with extend spell) this is the way to go. Great when combined with the teleportation circles above.

Simulacrum: For those that say "But wizards are so few there aren't enough of them for all this magic!". For the small investment of just 500 gp per HD your kingdom can have its very own wizard who does whatever he/she is told (at least until the creator tells him/her to do something different...this give me an evil idea for an adventure lol)

Stone shape: Tell the stone masons they can have a day or two off.

Wish: Almost whatever you want it to mean.

and that's just a few lol


Speaking from a player perspective tough fights can be fun but when every fight has players loosing characters or the party expending all its resources it sucks the fun right out of the game. You need a balance of easy fights to feel tough (and expend some light resources) with a few climactic epic battles. Doing it that way helps make the big bad guys memorable.

(now for personal story time / player complaining lol)
I once played in a game were the GM would throw nothing but encounters that would be classed as legendary or epic given the difficulty guidelines in the book. Every fight was tooth and nail and would require resting afterwards (yep 1 fight per day) as the party would expend almost all its resources. It was particularly frustrating when the GM would become upset at the party when we would rest rather than continue on with roughly 10% HP and no heals left. We got to level 7 and at no point did we feel powerful, as a matter of fact several discussions of buying a tavern and retiring were had because the adventuring life was just far too dangerous.


Kalridian wrote:

That is mainly, because truly considering the implications of magic on everyday life leads to the tippyverse and most people don't want to play in that world.

Other than that, check adventures and regional books for flavourful magical items for everyday use. (The taldor book has some great luxury items for the bearded of oppara)

Thanks Kalridian, i just went and googled the tippyverse and its exactly the kind of thing i was looking for :)


avr wrote:

Communication magics from whispering wind on up are decidedly out of combat spells. Charm person is not at its best in a fight. Spells which assist in large scale construction exist and continual flame obsoletes lamplighters whereever some spellcaster takes an interest.

Is there a reason you want to make the mundane population entirely irrelevant?

The same question could be asked of the inventors of the printing press in our world.

I just find it an interesting thought experiment to ask how a world would grow and change over time if magic were possible, and it seems to me that if magic were possible a society would greatly benefit from some research and study into improving the average persons life.


Taking a look through the books for pathfinder there are hundreds of combat or combat related spells, several non-combat adventurer related spells, but few spells that just flat out help improve quality of life.

So my question is a two parter, firstly does anyone know of a good source of non combat non adventure related spells that do things like help build houses, educate people etc?

And secondly does this ever come up much in the games people play? (for example do high level wizards frequently ask GM permission to do spell research to create a spell that builds stuff, or creates armies of unseen servants to go about town and wash windows and light oil lamps)

Also please note i am not saying there is anything wrong with the lack of this type of spell from the game, i was just pondering why wizards spend all their time coming up with new ways to kill people :P


when it comes to themed pathfinder i think everyone owes it to themselves to try a goblin game....just dont expect to get much done (but do expect hours of laughing yourself stupid)


Awesome stuff RD, my personal favorite is the animated castle, i am so stealing that idea :)


DrDeth wrote:
OP, please use capital letters and paragraphs, ok?

Sure thing =)


Question on the bear trap - how long does it take to set it up? move action to equip and standard to set maybe full round to drive in spike? seems rather powerful for a 2gp item. I am already imagining devious situations involving illusions of bear traps mixed in with real ones, "Bad Guy 1 - " Ah these traps are illusions run forth minions! Minion 1 - OK boss *CRUNCH* ahhhh! Bad Guy 1 - No not that one it was real, make your will saves damnit!" lol


Also should be noted that to begin with the game was pure core rules, i think we are starting to bring in APG and having a look the pit spells and Aquous Orb seem like very solid spells and would have nasty saves from me as both are conjuration, i figure i could cast orb twice and then just spend both standard and move action to move them about for some massive control effect for the cost of 2 3rd lvl spells


Kayerloth wrote:
I like Silent Saturn's idea of a bear trap (or two). Add in Shrink Item (lasts 7 days at your level) for making it easily portable by your average, not so muscle bound, wizard and Invisibility so the foe doesn't just step around or over it and you could have a rude surprise laid out by the groups stealthy member or against new arrival(s) to the battle.

hehe that sounds like an interesting plan, i think i am going to have to read up on bear traps

also Soporific Lotus asked why i took extend spell, mostly i just grabbed it for mage armor so it would last a little longer (also i think a few times at low level i took some summons extended for fights we knew would take a while), as i said this is my first wizard and i found when looking at the metamagic feats for the first time(only had access to core at the start of the game) that i couldn't see much reason to drop a lvl 3 spell like stinking cloud for an empowered burning hands or something, or a lvl 4 for a widened grease. I am sure at later levels they come in real handy and i imagine there are plenty of low level uses for each that i haven't considered, but that was my original logic (once again open to suggestions for a good low to mid range metamagic feat if anyone has some good ideas im all ears)


Soporific Lotus wrote:
Is this what the group likes or is the GM just actually being mean because that is a problem.

I have probably made him sound worse than he is, its not so much that he is mean as it is that he enjoys challenge (in video games he always plays what ever the highest difficulty is). As such he brings that into his games a little more then the players would like, so in his mind if we walk through an encounter and only use 10-20% of our resources then it was a boring encounter.

We have spoken to him about it and he is making efforts to ease up a little, the rest of us enjoy challenging encounters but when every single encounter is a hares breath away from a TPK it gets discouraging.

Also i just want to note that its not so much that i am upset or bored that i dont have anything to do its just that i get the feeling there is something i could be doing to help more, as a couple have noted i have built my character for summons (mostly because to at the begining of the campaign the party was rather small most of the time and we desperately needed meat shields) so in most encounters i throw out a summon or two, maybe buff or control a little with another spell, then i usually conserve knowing i will need the spells on the rest of the list for more fights in the day, the group is always happy with the results. I just want to help more once that has been done, i like the idea of using my knowledges more during combat as i am an absolute knowledge monkey, and i think some tanglefoot bags might be a good addition to the mundane control items as well as some other alchemical items. I think i will also pick up a wand of something as i can afford a 1st level wand, i have a bunch of scrolls i have scribed but i usually just scribe utility spells so that i dont have to memorize or leave slots open. I think i had caltrops at some point but i think i lost them when our ship sunk (basic premise of the campaign is being shipwrecked on a mysterious island that is guarded by a leviathan that wont let anyone leave, so there is a rudimentary civilization on the island because of the hundreds of ships the leviathan has sunk and marooned people for the last few centuries, also teleporting works only on the island so no teleporting off or dimensional travel away, so summons and minor class abilities work but no breaking the campaign with teleport spells lol)


Orthos wrote:

This is probably an important question to ask, anyway. Even more so with people switching from "buy this" suggestions to "make this" suggestions.

OP, does your GM even allow crafting feats other than Scribe Scroll? I know some GMs ban crafting feats completely, while some allow Scribe Scroll only because it's a Wizard class ability, and then others allow choice other options, and others allow the whole shebang.

yeah crafting feats are allowed but frowned upon.

In response to many others I do use scribe scroll but mostly i have just used it for lvl 1 spells as for the most part we are dirt poor (but this will be hopefully changing as the GM is starting to realize that at low levels magic items weren't all that necessary but as the levels get higher its looking more and more like we need the items to remain alive lol)


here is the basic rundown of the character as he stands atm, any suggested improvements welcome as the group has been on a long break and the GM has given us the chance for a minor respec (as in maybe swap out some feats and swap stats around a little)

* note on stats - GM gave us a 30 point stat buy as he is really stingy on magic items and cash (currently the only magic item i have is a belt of mighty con + 4 which the barbarian wants, but he already has magic armor/weapons and gets buffed to hell each fight so the belt went to me....for now) stats for the belt not included below

SEAROS SPELLBINDER
Male Wizard 7
Init +5; Senses Perception +2
==DEFENSE==
AC 13, touch 13, flat-footed 10 (+3 dex)
hp 44 (7d6+7)
SR 0
Fort +3, Ref +5, Will +7
==OFFENSE==
Spd 30 ft/x4
Melee Quarterstaff +3 (1d6) 20/x2 monk
Ranged Light Crossbow +6 (1d8) 19-20/x2
Special Attacks Summoner's Charm (PFCR 80)
==STATISTICS==
Str 10, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 21, Wis 14, Cha 7
BAB +3, CMB +3, CMD +16
Feats Augment Summoning (PFCR 118), Combat Casting (PFCR 119), Extend Spell (PFCR 123), Greater Spell Focus (PFCR 125), Scribe Scroll (PFCR 132), Spell Focus (Conjuration) (PFCR 134), Superior Summoning (PFUM 157)
Skills Appraise +15, Craft (alchemy) +9, Fly +10, Knowledge (arcana) +15, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +10, Knowledge (engineering) +10, Knowledge (geography) +10, Knowledge (history) +10, Knowledge (local) +10, Knowledge (nature) +10, Knowledge (nobility) +10, Knowledge (religion) +10, Knowledge (planes) +10, Linguistics +15, Ride +8, Spellcraft +15
SQ Arcane Bond (PFCR 78), Specialty school Conjuration (teleportation) opposition schools (Necromany/Enchantment)
Traits Focused Mind (Magic) (PFAPG 329), Reactionary (Combat) (PFAPG 328)
Languages Abyssal, Aquan, Auran, Celestial, Common, Draconic, Elven, Giant, Ignan, Infernal, Sylvan, Terran, Undercommon


rangerjeff wrote:
It is not the wizard's job to do damage. Since this is your first wizard, and you've played only fighter types before, I forgive you for being confused. Your job is to be interesting, change the balance on the field. What wizard type are you? If evoker, try to take some feats like rime spell that add an effect to the damage you do. If not evoker, you have many options for messing with the enemy. Walls or illusions to divide the field of combat. Summons. Control like create pit, web, grease. Buffs like haste, heroism, bulls strength.

yeah for the most part i try and play a "controller", i read treatmonks guide for the "god" wizard and it made a lot of sense to me, and so far i am proud to say i have not memorized magic missile once during seven levels lol (i dont even have the spell) because grease is just too damn useful and color spray was awesometacular for the first 4 levels. Same too goes for fireball (i have that one) which doesnt get to see the light of day because stinking cloud muscles its way into the list on a daily basis because the debuff is just too damn good to pass up for damage


I have found as a conjurer my main tactics spell wise usually go something along the lines of Stinking Cloud in round 1, then summon some monsters for assistance in rounds 2-3, then maybe do some of the less effective stuff i mentioned earlier. Also Haste has been a big party favorite, as well as some clever uses of silent image to summon a "ghost"/walls/spikes/copies of characters. by far the best spell i had for about 4 levels was color spray, with that and grease the party dropped an ogre at lvl 1.

checked and yeah Umbranus was right about deadly aim on touch attacks so no go on that one =(


hmm just having a quick read, point blank shot and deadly aim might actually work out, will need to think about the feat investment but it is intriguing none the less as acid splash is ranged touch so even at penalties to hit from deadly aim most baddies as still well hitable.

I just it comes down to is there something other than damage i should be focusing on, we have a barbarian who causes ridiculous damage with his great sword already, even with the tough bad guys he still usually drops things in a round or two so maybe damage should just be left to him and i should try to control in some non spell related way?


RJ nailed it, it's a home brew game and the GM is mean to the point of cruel when it comes to the CR of encounters lol (if going by the CR scale in the core book almost ever fight would be considered legendary), the trouble is that in his mind a fight is not fun unless the party has just about tapped all resources in order to overcome it...and then he will throw in another just like it to really make us work =(

an example would be forcing an encounter with 4 gargoyles on a lvl 5 party of 4 with two members below 0 hp including the cleric, we survive somehow through a combination of shear dumb luck and determination (with a dash of min maxing)

but whining aside i like the idea of beefing up acid splash if possible as i always have it on the list as i am a conjurer and its the only 0 lvl conjuration i have access to, so what are some of the ways to buy the damage on cantrips ie is it only through spells or can certain magic items boost it as well?

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Glad things are woking out. Goood luck.
I've heard several people suggest APs. I personally along with two other GMs don't use them. Here's why from First Ed D&D which Pathfinder is based off of to First Ed Pathfinder have found modules tend to insist railroad players to do things that one way. First Ed D&D was the worst but I have seen some of it in Pathfinder. Players that don't follow the script are punished some horribly so.
My advice for running your ow campaign is base it off an establish world. I kow several people who still use 3.5 Forgotten Realms. Tat way most of the big stuff is done. If you design your own world you should have the basics done focus on one area where you lann on running for at least a few adventures. A GM did it and it worked.


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Can't find First Ed Pathfinder question forum. My question is was or is there an errata for Mammoth Rider Prestige Class. Since every version I've seen doesn't list wether they get any new weapons or armor profiencies


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Juju Oracle is a good idea. 6HD worth of control per level is a nice start along with max HP zombies. Get a Griffin or manticore to ride on later. Another idea is Occultist Necromancer implement. You add more undead to control per point put into implement above and beyond the normal amount of control.
If you need an additional theme element make her Osirian by birth. Egyptians loved cats, having them killed and mummified with their owners. If she's a NPC make her a Mummy template with her cats buried with her in a tomb.


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The feat is pretty cool all things considered. But here's my question. I've got a melee build kobold with a positive str of 14. With this feat would I add 4 points to my str for damage purposes? In this case instead of +2 damage would I know do +4 instead since my strength in this case would be 18?


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That's something I have found annoying all things considered. I mean you in one dungeon crawl burn through all your charges. Now downtime you are a Wizard who decides just to stay home and recharge your staff. It takes Ten days to recharge it. I always thought that was C$%^ I mean seriously why shouldn't you be able to spend all your spells in one day to recharge your staff and be done with it? I get it's a game balance issue. Truthfully I don't think it's an issue I think it's said word above!


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It's not about alignment, not really. A mistake was made in game the halforc player misunderstood. Now the GM and players should have spent a moment clearing the issue up. Once cleared up the Half Orc should have then decided reasonably and intelligently what to do. From what I read he was the first to make contact with the dragon. The dragon offered him a counter proposal that the half orc didn't like. Now both being LG should have discussed this matter. He should have been able to refuse explaining why and the dragon should have accepted his decision.
This is one reason why I hate Paladins. Paladins are a badass class. But to offset them they have a rather restrictive alignment. Lawful Good is not an easy alignment to roleplay especially with a Paladin. You can lose being a paladin very easily. They can;t murder a bunch of bandits when they surrender. They have to attempt to prevent the rest of the party to do so.
In this case the player misunderstood. Now if he understood after everything was explained and di everything he did exactly the same. I as a GM would have warned him he was in danger of being turned to a standard fighter if he does said actions. If he still chose to do so he is no longer a paladin and maybe even a drop in alignment. He isn't playing LG more like CG.


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Okay no topic on sex fair enough. Prefer skeletons to zombies they are normally cleaner then a zombie.
Have a math question want to make sure I get it right.I am asking here since it is full of necromatic experts. So the rules for creating skeletons is simple you can control 4 HD of dead per lvl. So 5th level I can control 20 1 HD base skeletons. Now I want to make them Bloody. They now are treated for casting and controlling 2HD. Now here's the question I add Burning to them as well. Yes they stack. Do they count as 3 HD or 4 HD for control purposes.
In one campaign plan on having a small assualt squad of Burning Bloody skeletons for battlefield control want to get my numbers right


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Becoming undead isn't bad. Depending on the route you take. No longer need to eat drink or breath. You need the rest for spell regeneration but a ring takes care of that little annoyance. You become immune to an ass load of stuff.
Now there is one glaring flaw I see with undeath. No More Sex.


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Before you completley dismiss Lizardfolk check out the Monster Codex. They have templates of advanced level lizardfolk. I think I saw a few high level ones and encounters for them around if not higher then your party's current level.
Except for Hill most giants are not completely stupid. They could throw rocks at the flyers from range then attempt to hide and move. Keep them moving so the flyers and those on foot have to keep moving and guessing where they really are. If done right they may even think there are more then there really are.
A friend years ago had this trap and it was brutal. We were in this one section of swamp where it was covered with thick pressed down grass. In the center was a hut we were walking towards. A wizard aimed a fireball at us some distance hidden away. The fireball set of the methane pocket under the grass. Not only did we takes some hefty damage but the whole place was on fire having us make checks to figure out which way was out of the inferno. We ended up losing our Cavalier and his mount and most of us were severely damaged.


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How might one join? I am currently playing in a weird World of Warcraft style campaign as a Drow Necromancer. The more we play the more I;m thinking of dropping his second class for Juju Oracle and evnetually go Agent of the Grave I have friends undead controller. Admittedly his name Clavicle isn't entirely original but I am really loving him


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I apologize for not offering my sympathies. I know what it's like to lose such a cared member of the family. A regret I have was when Buddy my wife's dog needed to be put to sleep, the cancer had spread too far in him for surgery, I was out of state on business. She knew is was important and doesn't blame me but I blame myself.
We currently have four dogs all chihuahuas and one cat. Right now we are scrapping money together to get the oldest Tiffany "Babygirl" to a vet since she's having issues. Fortunately the other three all boys and at least half her age are healthy little snots.


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I hosted two games at my house before Covid then went to D20 after. I have four chihuahuas and a cat. One of the puppies and my cat think they are supposed to be in my face and on my laptop. I love them but not when they do that.
My pets are not just animals they are my family. My wife and I love all of them


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What you could do which was a common tactic in another games system was foreshadowing. Let the players somehow witness the party but not actively be there. The reason for this suggestion is I have seen players decide to try and fight monsters way above thier level thinking they have to. Even if the monsters use non lethal force the party will get stomped on hard.
Maybe they are invited to the party aware they are not supposed to fight that could work. The idea of a Alice in Wonderland Tea party is because it comes across as a bit silly but at the same time scary as hell. A Vampire drinking tea dressed in a frilly sort of outfit. A Balrog asking everyone to show manners. a Hag actually looking more like Jessica Rabbit not an evil old crone. The party walking in on this being invited to sit and enjoy the refreshments. Skill check to see what is being served and if they really want what is offered. That tea isn't tea but something else. Blood of a Unicorn? Something to consider for this party these are high level powerful Evil monsters. Finger food might actually be fingers more then likely an angel or something along those lines. A result of intruding on the tea party is someone suggests the PCs play a game.


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In most of my games the players made sure the monsters were dead well below zero. In some cases they stuck them to make sure they were dead. I had no issue with this since I never planned on mosnters surviving an encounter. My issue was in one campaign I had the group capture two prisoners. Now I never planned on the prisoners coming back the PCs got XP. One player refused to still let them live citing they could come back. Even out of game he insisted on killing them. The campaign ended shortly after and two I reinforced my ban on Chaotic Neutral alignment.


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I don't know how hard or expensive it is to find first ed modules but TSR did the whole Alice in Wonderland theme rather well.
The Tea party idea with powerful monsters could actually work as your BBGG. The party they have are to start and bet of the various world theme games. Candyland could be the purview of a Gingerbread demon witch. Plants versus Zombie several demons specializing in undead. Maybe use a Qupploith for the plant creature. Roman gladitoral games any major monster could be into that. A Bhatgest for the shruken world.
For the shruken world Micheal Crighton did a novel on that name escapes me perfect for ideas. In shruken land don't discount insects. Red Ants as tiny as they are can be a threat to people in the south. Now picture them as large as you. Same with other predatory bugs. Praying Mantis the size of a house to you. People are afraid of spiders, now imagine that fear when it's the size of an elephant chasing you.


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The horror story above reminded me of another. It was about worm like creatures killing townsfolk and the outlying farms. I don't remember it but it was set in the old west and rather well done for a horror. As bad as it was. Cowboys and Aliens might work as well. It actually had like several subplots unexplored you could work with.
Something to bear in mind is this is an old west theme guns are going to be common. A gun against touch AC can quickly overshadpw the two weapon brute tank. Despite what movies and TV potray not everyone was a gunslinger and carried a gun. Most actual cowboys carried a rifle for hunting and chasing off predators. The revolver was against things like snake or scorpions in boots. Shooting the rope if the fell off the horse.
I love the Wild West theme and have tried to get into others doing it so good luck


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Most games I have run as Sandbox style. That is mostly because in another game system they did what was called Hook Line Sinker. They broke down the adventure in three parts. The hook getting the party interested. Line was to get them going and stay going. The sinker usually was the twist to the story. Example damsel in distress is the rival of the bad guy PCs are after. The game system didn't have any real modules or adventures. They gave you ideas but you had to do most of the work to make the adventure happen. When I switched to Pathfinder I was used to doing that.
Regarding Damsel in distress during the supposed time period and theme men and women are supposed to be good guys. As such seeing a normal woman crying is supposed to evoke an emotional response. Enough to at least have the good guys ask what's troubling her. Depending on the task which you could makee it sound easy and simple. Deliver the basket to granny find my lost sheep, etc, etc.Of course the task isn't that easy it starts the adventure because the PCs accepted the plot hook.
I have seen and in one case myself had to railroad PCs into doing what they need to do. You give the players every hint clue even reward for them to do the adventure. They decide just because to ignore them and do the opposite of what they are supposed to do. The example of hero's father murdered the hero gets a Neon sign saying go here to find and kill father's murderer. They decide to go the opposite direction. You ask the player why he isn't why his character which you designed the adventure around why not. Half the players respond I don't want to.


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Some players I had two you do have to beat with a stick to get to pay attention and play. They will miss or ignore sometimes even both the clues and hints you drop that they need for a random side quest or even the main adventure theme.
I personally hate being railroaded into doing something. Old AD&D adventures were infamous for that. In order to really start the adventure your characters have to be killed. The suggestion was throw a few plural Beholders or dragons at the party. After they are slaughtered villain revives them telling them your my servant don't obey you die again. Or traveling from point A to say E you are forced to go in order when logically there is a better faster smarter way.
With some players you needed to do that. Most others can take a hint and do something. Damsel in distress needs help most good especially Lawful Good would try and find out what is troubling the damsel. They might say no but at least they'd ask.
On a side note something that drives me nuts is how little people play their characters alignment. I tend to enforce it with the exception of Chaotic Neutral I ban that alignment. Too many times I see a players screw up a game even a campaign then say I'm playing my alignment. No they are being an A$$. But I have seen players have on their character sheet a good alignment and do more evil crap then the sneaky evil character. I have seen a Paladin rob torture and kill someone without a need to except the player is a greedy jerk. Most GMs I know don't even blink at that.


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GM favoritism in regards to helping a newish forgetful player remember and improve his character isn't a bad thing. What bothers me about that is when they have played the game for over a year especially the same character and still depends on the GM to help him or her along. It doesn't take a lot of effort to study your character at some point and learn what he can and can't do.


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I have talked with a few of my gaming group. I am wrong. My opinion is Pazio should have been clearer on this point. It states it loses it's special abilities provides no bonuses to it's master and can't be improved. And it states at the very end it alters the Familiar class feature. All of that together suggests that it's too different for most archtypes offered.
Spermy why a cockroach and the archtype. I'm not judging I'm more curious.


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Mutagen fighter replaces armor training. Use the mutagen for difficult fights getting a boost to natural AC and the +4 to Str giving me a little more hitting power. Have Power Attack with Furious Focus plan on Cleave later on.


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I'm a two handed fighter wielding a heavy flail. Dodge is an option and have armor focus breastplate as bonus fighter feat. Just looking for every bit of protection I can get. Our GM tends to get high die rolls.


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In this case Warpriest. A warpriest is a hybrid of a cleric and fighter. Could he take Defender of society a trait reserved only for fighters. Could any hybrid take any traits reserved for their base classes. Slayers and Hunters gain Ranger only feats and traits. Etc, etc.


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Armor Focus the feat is you get a +1 bonus. It's for one type of armor and normally doesn't stack. In my case I have a Breastplate so it grants me a +7 to AC. Now I have a kilt which makes it heavy and provides another plus to my total AC.
My question is I take armor focus for kilt would I get another plus to my total ac. o it would go 6 for breastplate 1 for kilt. +2 for armor focus twice once for the breastplate one for the kilt?


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So playing a cleric in a pirate style campaign. Planning on having undead friends. If I create a Wand of Animate Dead it at minimum level gives me 20 HD worth of undead under my command. Now as a cleric of 5th level I get 20 HD worth of undead. Would I with the wand have 40 HD worth under my control?


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In Wrath of the Rightous I played an elf whose parents were killed by demons. He was raised by a Dwarf uncle. So why he was an elf he dressed and acted dwarven. He was a blast to play with the GM finding him interesting. He shunned the one elf NPC important to the campaign because one the guy is a jerk two because he identified more with dwarves then elves.
My point is fantasy or real life people may identify more with a culture more then their own.


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Let's look at this from an alignment side. Ignore class for a moment. If you are Lawful Good you are the voice of right and wrong of the party. You believe in what is right and lawful. Killing helpless combantents is simply wrong regardless of what they are. This could be helpless commoners of humans to goblin babies. You should be telling the rest of the party No. You should be standing between them and their targets of murder. You should be suggesting alternative solutions to simply murder. If you not only say or do nothing you are guilty of murder. You should have your alignment drop.
Only Paladins face any real consequences for an alignment shift. Is it fair? Yes and no. Yes because Paladins are the most powerful martial class. They have abilities that are just OP compared to other Martial classes. Here's the no part. Every other class loses nothing for the alignment shift. Most players rarely even consider the shift. A shift in alignment is supposed to be traumatic. I have personally seen a player respond with any reaction maybe three four at the most. I have been playing well over twenty years.
My current group almost everyone had their alignment shift only one player even seemed to care. He is the only one working to become his original alignment. This is supposed to be from a predominately good aligned party.


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I know you said other then Cavalier but I wish to point out a couple of things a couple of Cavalier archtypes allow you to keep Expert Trainer. Expert Trainer is needed to get Horse Master which allows your mount to go up by your total character level rather then Cavalier level. So at 4th level you can become another class. At 6th level you get Horse Master and your mount is your level. Another feat allows you to take Vermin or Plant companions as your mount. A bit weird but different. Other feats allow you to take a medium mount even if you are medium yourself.


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I may yet get to play a Goblin Winged Maruader Alchemist. Looks by armor and what not as a World War One pilot. Repeating Crossbow when not using Bombs.
I am however playing a Cavalier(Saurion Champion),Monk(Sohei),Magus(Kensai) Tiefling. His bak ground is he's originally from Kaoling so his Tiefling features are more Oni Asian in looks. His Dinosaur is a raptor named Jade. The surprising thing I this combination really works.


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Might I suggest a Mystic Thuerge build. Yes I know a Thuerge is not an optimal Prestige Class. Here's why I suggest it. You use you Arcane spell for yourself for defense and offense. Clerical for Buffs,Healing and Summoning. Until recently I was never a fan of Summoning spells. Yet our Druid in a current game has summoned two Elementals that have proven more then capable of handling monsters. At worst they can serve as meat shields protecting you.
If you take a Wizard Archtype don't take one that gives up Scribe Scroll. Here's why, you can scribe both Clerical and Arcane and you get it for free. I'm working on retraining my wizard to be a Druid Wizard thuerge to go this route and so far the numbers are pretty solid.


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Floating Disc is a first level spell with a duration of an hour per level. Third level take Extend metamagic feat doubles the duration. So now it lasts two hours per level. 6 hours per casting at third level. There is a feat called Magic Trick. Right now it is only for Floating Disc. It is in Distant Shores and well worth looking into.
Another solution for the strength defiency is take 2 levels of Summoner Synthesist archtype. Your Eidolon fuses with you giving you his physical stats. So now your wimpy old goblin can function as a more robust goblin. You can sacrifice Hp to keep it alive and on you. You take all the spells from the summoner for Restore Eidolon lesser to keep it healthy. The Eidolon gives you a natural armor bonus which stacks with the armor spell. You take Magical Knack Trait which allows your caster level to be two higher equal to your total character level. So 2 levels of Summoner wouldn't hurt your wizard overall except you wouldn't get that level 20 ability. Most campaigns I have been in we never got all the way to 20.
It was pointed out Goblins are not well received in towns and cities. Take ranks in Disguise. When you get some money purchase Cap of Human guise. 800 gold allows you to look like an adult Halfling or a human child. Depending on your group and what your goblin does they shouldn't care your a goblin and work with you to keep you alive in social situations.


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Have read the archtype and posts. I'm disappointed that the ooze form was intended to be a secondary more useless form. The biggest hit for the class is not being able to carry anything. I can think of two ways to get spells and magical weapon abilities. First take levels in Monk with Feral Combat Training. The secondary benefit is you might with high Wis and Dex a good AC. The no spells solution is take Psychic class with Eschew Materials feat.
Truthfully I like the idea of being an ooze for most of an adventure. It would make for an interesting player. You take a race with telepathy and communication problem is solved. Go around introducing yourself. "Hi I'm Oswald the Ooze."
Next time I run I will make the house rule stating the form is like Wild Shape. You can carry your gear you just can't use it in ooze form.


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Thank you Graystone.


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Maybe I missed this but I have a question. Shadowbound Curse is from where? Because the only place I have seen ShadowBound anything is a Corruption which is completely different then an Oracle Curse. If that his argument Corruptions being what they are should override anything being how nasty they are. Corruptions in my opinion override natural immunities since they almost always occur after birth. So he has Lightbringer to start, then gets the Corruption. The Corruption essentially destroys the immunities.


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The issue I'm now seeing isn't so much what he is trying to do but the fact he can and is. I think what he is doing is a waste. Yes you could take elf and lose most of your more powerful abilities to be immune to light conditions. But why? I'm not seeing an upside to what he is doing.
I mean sure he is immune to his curse condition. I think he's gimped himself when he didn't have to at all.


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I like Oracles have played a few over the last few years. The cures at higher levels actually get useful. The question isn't removing the curse he or she has found a way to negate the penalties. Now while an interesting way of doing it, The question is why? Elves are not really geared for the class no bonus to Chr. To get Light Bringer he gives up his normal immunities and magical abilities.
After reading everyone's post I'd allow him. It isn't cheating really just a different way of nullifying a curse. I could take Lame lose ten feet, then take a level of Cleric gaining the Travel Domain and gain a ten foot enhancement bonus. The curse is still there it just doesn't affect me.


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I originally was going to say LightBringer nullifies the curse but Quibble address the issue in a logical manner I can't really argue against.


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Talking about races and settings I do have a complaint with Pazio. The drow. I remember them from first ed D&D. The changes made as the editions changed. Pazio has kept them pretty much as they are. Here's the thing Pazio doesn't have Lolth not even their version. That alone should have changed a few details regarding the race. Lolth was a spider demon goddess. She hated men viewing them as an inferior species. You read about her and the fact the Drow were essentially her chosen people it all made sense why the Drow in earlier versions the way they were. But you read about the Drow now without Lolth key things don't make sense. Why the love of spiders? Just because. Why are men considered almost property? Again just because. Why are Driders now accepted as Citzens. Now this was answered. Driders are now Drow who chose to be transmutated into a spider hybrid race. I mean it may seem silly to others but I do think they should have spent effort to explain why the Drow of Pathfinder are still the same race from 3.5 even though they removed a key defining element about them as a race.


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Both the Hunter and Cleric should be providing the heals since both get access to the healing spells the party needs. The real issue is why are you guys getting stomped on? It could be the GM is overestimating your abilities. I'm seeing from a class stand point a strong party. Clerics can go tank melee specialist almost as well as a fighter. The Hunter should have an animal companion to provide some more combat ability.


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This happened in 1st ed D&D to explain things. A GM asked me to play a cleric for an evil campaign. Now clerics being my fave class I had no issue with this. He then said play a cleric of Tiamat. Now Tiamat was queen of all evil dragons. Guardian of the first layer of hell. She was not however a deity. I didn't think this was a problem since there were rules for granting of spells for creatures as powerful as her. Two seconds later got my concept. Scalemail wearing morning star wielding melee guy. The GM said nope. Before I could ask what he said your character is essentially Barbie wearing a chainmail bikini only able to use a knife. Oh to really piss me off no spells.
So my character is useless except for jokes and sexual remarks. The end of the first adventure our group are caught by the city guards. I looked at the GM and said I'm slitting my throat. The guy actually whined why. I told him I was playing this useless character because he asked me to. I asked him am I ever get better. He said no. He was still a whiny putz when I killed his Barbie.


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This particular archtype cannot take the talent to improve it. It states their change time is based on how long it takes to get into armor. That is why I am asking. It's more about tanking up like Iron Man rather then getting into the mood like Batman.
The magical item is in fact armor which is why I ask.


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I've had the pleasure of gaming with more or less the same group for twenty some odd years. We did a lot of stuff some memorable some not so much. A few encounters that stick out. We were playing Vampire the masquerade with us going to raid a house for some reason. So we were all getting into position ready to go when one of the PCs called out the danger word. Banana. Everyone freaked hightailing it out of there while my character is trying to get everyone back. It didn't help that my character kept saying. "No, there is no banana." The player in question called out the danger word just to see what would happen.
This one happened in 3E. I had just rejoined the group having missed most of the campaign. In it we had one character as a saint which was a chosen one of some deity. We had a Drow wizard as well. We arrived at this Dwarf kingdom where the saint is talking to the king a very, very lawful kind of guy. Between the saint and our Paladin managed to keep the Drow from being butchered. So the king asks us is there anything I can do for you. The Paladin asks. "Do you have any hookers in your city?" Before we can react to this question asks. "Is your daughter available?" The party all took about four steps away from the paladin expecting him to be killed in a bloody brutal manner. The GM was merciful allowing the paladin to stay alive although he should have been killed for that.


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Regarding new and old players. I actually don't mind new players. They may be inexperienced as far as playing but they can and do bring an excitement to the table that older more experienced players don't anymore. I don't mind helping new players learn the game or make their characters since if they have a fun useful character they will have fun and want to play.
I have met quite a few older players, including my first group who do and in my case did nothing to help me learn. They handed me a wizard said play him when I knew nothing about the class. I threw a fireball not realizing fireballs have blast radius. The player next to me yanked the character out of my hand said play this handing me a cleric. I learned how to play it and the rogue myself. I have seen this behavior a lot regarding new players. I have seen older players slam on new people because they don't know much about the game. This generates a lot of bad feelings causing a lot of new players to quit before giving the game a fair chance. This is especially tragic since some old players are nothing but cheating jerks whose goal is simply to screw with a campaign and GM. Me I'd rather have a table full of new people actually interested in the game then a table full of older cheating jerks.


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From what I'm reading it sounds if the players are just not interested in the Adventure Path. It happens friend of mine told me pirate sailing type adventures bore him as well as anything involving future tech. So even if I could get all the books for Skull and shackles or Iron Gods he wouldn't play in them. This may be the case with your group.
I'd suggest talking to them out of game. They may not want to play this adventure path. I get the feeling this is the case. There are several other modules out plus writing your own if you have the time.


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Play a Fetchling or a Darkstalker race. Fetchlings with their racial traits and feats cover that perfectly. Of course this is from official pathfinder rules not your GMs rules. There is a book dedicated to races and classes that exists only in darkness as well.
I am curious to hear from your GM on everything you have said about your character and the other players. He might actually be okay with everything except your character. He might have been wrong about how he has dealt with your character. However you yourself have admitted "I like to make characters that break the game." To me that is like saying if my character isn't the most powerful character in the game I'm unhappy and am going to whine and complain.


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Tactics says it eloquently. Bottom line seems this player wants to play chaotic disruptive stupid. You and the group should talk to him out of game. My old group's longevity was due to the fact we were friends and talked about things. It's one thing to play evil, had two campaigns where everyone was evil group had a blast with it. It's another to play chaotic stupid like this guy is.


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Depends on the alter self player how he uses it. The Lizardfolk are not a +2 they are listed in the Race guide as an example and come in at 11 RP which is average for the normal races. The racial HD boost can be negated by running higher encounters.
Now he sounds like he is making several mistakes all of them can be fixed. More extreme is to start over and run a official Pathfinder campaign. Nothing from 3.5 or third press. This levels the playing field lowering everyone's power. Before starting this you all should have a chat and talk. If everyone is mature this can solve a lot of problems.


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I gave Joker as an example of Chaotic Evil because he to me seems the closest villain to that alignment. Now Shrouded pointed out he can work with others and have patience to follow through with a plan.
The issue really doesn't seem to be about alignment about this player. He's playing Chaotic Stupid. Chaotic stupid is a player wanting to be an Ass because he thinks he can. My old group booted two players because of this. In both cases this was done after having several discussions out of game about their behavior both in and out of the game when we got together. It's harsh but my group suffered because the players drug everyone down. We all agreed we'd rather play WOW or Skyrim then play in a hostile environment the players were creating.


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ShroudedinLight I think you ideas for playing evil is an interesting take. But your logic is flawed, You are focusing more on the chaotic part not the good and evil aspect. Consider this analogy. Batman is for this example Chaotic Good. He fights for the cause of good but often breaks the law to do it. Superman is Lawful Good he works with Batman but hates his methods but can often times overlook them since they fight for Good.
Now Joker is Chaotic Evil kills for fun. He doesn't work with anyone and has betrayed and even killed those he has worked for even though they were evil themselves. He has tortured and killed people just out of boredom. Other times he has targeted someone knowing it will cause others pain and suffering.
A Chaotic Evil person will never play nice in a group. They might work with someone for a moment but if a situation comes along that that person likes he will betray the party in a second. He won't warn them or even apologize when he does it.


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I agree with Ciaran this will end badly. Before it ends badly think about this. The party wants to do evil things becoming evil themselves. You can do two things allow everyone to play evil and stupid throwing good guys against them until they are killed. Or have the evil player make a new character of a non evil alignment.

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