Looking for advice for making a character with strong memetic potential while also being actually viable in combat. Want to have many good laughs, but since combat is typically a very large chunk of our games I don't want to be worthless at that.
The base inspiration was a challenge we came upon about making a character with a happy background. Our group has quite a tendency to roleplay sad backgrounds, with orphans being common, and slavery and such, and I tend to make even grimmer backgrounds than most. When I GM, my world stands out by being much more gritty and dark than the rest.
So I'm looking at good laughs while doing something different. The Happy Character.
My character lived a happy life as a farmer. Nothing bad or sad happened in his life, he had a (relatively) prosperous farm, a loving wife, many kids. But now, he's getting old. Too old. He decides that it's time to pass on the farm to his kids, and wants to leave his fields to see the world before he dies of old age. He decides that magic could be a boon in this endeavor, as it can greatly help travel vast distances despite his failing body. He studies it, and becomes a lvl 2 wizard, specializing in conjuration (teleportation). Opposition schools are evocation and necromancy, probably. He doesn't like hurting others, he's neutral good, kind of a pacifist, but he'll use various control spells to help his party, like Wall spells. Let's call him... Forest Trump.
Forest is actually a goblin (seems like the most viable short-lived race), meaning he gets to be of venerable age at 40, and thus rant off at people about how things were "back when I was a kid" that would likely cover stuff that happened when normal young(er) adults also lived. Maybe he talks like Yoda (though honestly, I might have a hard time mixing that with the stereotypical "when I was your age!" banter). He's either got an arcane bond with a walking stick, or a livestock familiar. Maybe he was a rabbit breeder, and he kept his favorite hare as familiar? If he had a small-sized familiar, like a goat, he could cast reduce person on himself and ride it. Otherwise he could just buy a cow and ride that. Many possibilities. He also "learned magic" from one of our party members, whom he encountered as he had passed through the farm. His sensei, however, is no actual wizard, but rather a "fake wizard", a fighter who uses tricks to make it look like he's casting magic. Forest doesn't actually have any knowledge (arcana ranks), nor even spellcraft ranks (DM will let me use Lingustics for anything spell-book related). Nobody knows how it works, but it just does. The fake wizard scribbles stuff in Forest's spellbook, and he manages to use it to cast actual spells from it. Don't ask him to explain anything he does, though, or identify any magic. "I'm but a simple farmer, this is the first time I've seen this in my life!"
Now, venerable age grants some pretty hefty penalties. +3 to all mental stats, -6 to all physical stats. Ouch. Goblin also gets a -2 racial to str, +4 dex, 2 cha. That +4 to dex is appreciated, but otherwise, yikes. Starting with 1000 gold and 25 point buy.
That doesn't really allow much in terms of negating the age penalties, be it by buying gear, or spells, or such. Some items will help with his carrying capacity, though, which will probably really need it. Otherwise, paying for a strong animal and a cart is a cheaper fix.
So I'm thinking of an array of the likes of this:
Ability - base - after adjustments - (cost)
Str - 10 - 2 - (0)
Dex - 14 - 12 - (5)
Con - 14 - 8 - (5)
Int - 17 - 20 - (13)
Wis - 11 - 14 - (1)
Cha - 11 - 14 - (1)
Looking for ideas/suggestions with the array, feats, items, spells, etc., to pick for the start or short term to help make this little guy viable.
I looked at threads for old characters, and from the looks of it, basically, there's nothing special to do (yet). Age Resistance is too high-level a spell, the Mantle of Immortality is too expensive. Muleback Cords would cost me my whole starting gold. I do have access to spells like Ant Haul, though, but that wouldn't last all day. I could prepare it multiple times or take Extend Spell. But again, if I have an animal to carry stuff, and a masterwork backpack, I can still carry a light load with 10lb. As a wizard, I don't need armor, or weapons, or much that would normally weigh much. Just means I can't stash a lot of potions or scrolls on me, though. Doesn't sound like I need much investment to cast from atop a mount, either. And if I want a small mount, Reduce Person can't bring my strength below 1. Alternatively, I can cast Enlarge Person on the familiar thanks to Share Spell. Maybe even make it permanent. For normal mounts, Goblin dogs are fast, otherwise rams and such could make good options. I don't think I saw any penalties for riding mounts that are two size categories larger than oneself, either? Other than not being able to fast mount it? Actually, I don't even see anything about the minimum size a mount needs to be, either... where's that? If I decide to mount my familiar in combat, he could charge to deliver touch attacks without my crazy strength penalty, but... I don't think a wizard charging into melee on top of his familiar is a very smart thing to do, especially with those physical stats. XD Doesn't really fit with the pacifist theme either.
Any suggestions to help make this old man more fun/funny/competent is appreciated! :P
My understanding of the aging rules is that they only apply to a PC after character creation. That is, you generate identical stats regardless of what age category you're in to start with, but you take appropriate penalties (and bonuses) when you enter a new category after that. So that should help with your Str issues. I mean, you'll still want him to have low str to fit his age, but 7-8 would do you fine for that, plenty of old men aren't cripples.
Have you considered having him be a sorceror who just thinks he's a wizard and needs a spellbook? It would explain why he can generate actual magic despite being fed garbage by his mentor. You'd probably want the arcane bloodline so he could still have a humorous familiar or arcane bond.
Got the relevant lines about age penalties only applying after character creation? That sounds rather unexpected to me. I'm not seeing anything of the like in the rules.
The sorcerer line would have been a great alternative if the GM hadn't shown leniency on our funkyness. Being int-based grants me the ability to pick up more skills, though, such as Profession (farmer) and Knowledge (nature). The Conjuration (teleportation) school perks are nice, too. Plus, well, having access to a lot more spells. Plus I don't think I've played a wizard since 3.0, but a few sorcerers since, including one in PF. I also don't dislike the concept of doing stuff blindly, and yet it works. It's like making cake, most people can follow a recipe book without the slightest understanding of the physical and chemical changes the ingredients undergo.
I just noticed that age penalties can't bring you below 1. Maybe I should cheese that a bit and start with a 7 str, giving me more points to offset the other physical stat penalties. Negative con modifier is not cool.
The thing about aging rules not applying at character creation is a special PFS rule. In PFS, you can make your character any age below the Venerable age category but get no bonuses or penalties for being Middle-Aged or Old -- then or later.
After some poking around I conclude that I was thinking of a common aging house rule, a trap I usually manage to avoid. (I don't play PFS.) My apologies.
Undersized mount is a feat which makes riding a familiar easier. You can ride a creature of your own size, assuming that it can carry your weight.
A bit of craft (alchemy) to make the alchemical weapons without a listed weight at a semi-reasonable cost - call it special goblin pickles - and you have a backup tactic for when you run out of spells. Which will matter because cantrips do too little damage and you're going to have problems with even a crossbow at Str 2; clothes + spellbook + light crossbow + some bolts and you're encumbered already. Go down to Str 1 and this becomes even more of a problem.
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Yea, with 2 str, the list of stuff I can carry without encumbrance is pretty damn low. The spell components pouch is 2lb. The haramaki is 1lb.
That brings me at 3lb, and I don't think there's anything I strictly need to hold on my person at all times. A mithral buckler, maybe (didn't look up the weight), but it's out of my budget for now.
For the rest, I basically have no choice: animals. Bought two trained goblin dogs and a cart, which can hold 300lb. I've got handle animal to drive the thing, and if I need a quick escape, I can just unattach them from the cart and flee with their awesome 50ft speed. Though... losing all my loot, so, hopefully, not.
No, this is not Golarion. Loosely based for some convenience in most of our settings, but each GM makes their own world, and many have made more than one. So the lore of Golarion on what a goblin would or wouldn't do is rather irrelevant to me. Besides, there's the olde handwave of "this one's special". Maybe he's the only goblin farmer in the world? Who knows, doesn't seem relevant anyways. In most of our games, monstrous races are not allowed, so I almost only play humans. But when they are, I pretty much default to goblinoids. My hobgoblin cleric of Abadar (later turned paladin) was fun to RP, even if it made me realize I wasn't a big fan of the divine spell lists.
Some of these comments are needlessly rude. My intent isn't to "play an optimized character and make him a little old", it's to "make a stupidly old character while trying to keep him playable". The -6 to physical stats is just another challenge to deal with. If I could make a venerable character without any stat modification, honestly, I wouldn't see what the point of it would be. That'd be cheating.
The character is largely a caricature. As my characters often are. The psychotic bipolar small young girl fighter with amazing strength, the overly capitalistic hobgoblin aristocrat in exile, the utterly clueless ranger who tries to pass off blood stains for spaghetti sauce, the conniving gnome sorcerer that died nearly every session, a lot of them had very stupid things about them. And you know what, we still talk about them, years later, and laugh at it still.
If I just made an "old halfling sorcerer", maybe he'd be much stronger than a venerable goblin wizard. But he would be nowhere near as memorable. And to me, if he's not memorable, he's just not worth playing.
Oh regarding the familiar option, I've thought about it some... riding my familiar, I'm not sure it's the best idea. The medium sized familiars aren't great, to begin with. I see there's maybe a feat I could take to ride it? Not sure it's worth a feat, though. Otherwise, I need to either use Reduce Person on myself or Enlarge Person on it, both of which have a long casting time, a short duration, and take a precious spell slot.
Combat-trained animals are fairly cheap. I put ranks in ride and handle animal, I think it's safer to put a few coins in those for my hauling/riding needs, and take a familiar that won't be so much of a target, like a hare for example. As for nerfing my cha and/or wis, I'll consider it. More str, con, or dex would certainly be appreciate. A lot of the skills I picked use wis or cha, though. He'd make a s~+!ty farmer if he dumped those.
Regarding the discrepency between his stats and attitude, there's such a thing as the "idiot savant". He's extremely keen and smart for some things, but in other domains, due to personal biases or personality querks, he's no better, if even that, than the average joe. Also, he's uneducated. Being smart doesn't automatically make people know everything. He never went to any school or anything of the like, he never even left the farm before. He was a genius at finding innovative solutions to his farming problems, but this magic stuff? He never even saw magic before that fighter passed through.
Rabbits are on average 1 to 4lb, their entry says. So let's say my little hare weighs 1lb, I can carry him on me. Clothing!? That old man's bare chest, wearing shorts at most. I'd peg that as negligible weight, especially to fit a 2'10" little goblin.
So he could actually have the capacity to bring his compact spellbook along with him and not bust his weight limit. In a waterproof bag, even, and along with his spell components pouch.
Good point about the masterwork backpack only increasing his carrying capacity by the bag's own weight... but then it still makes for a more reasonable place to store stuff without having my hands full.
About threatening... hmmm, even a gauntlet is 1lb, no weapons at less weight than that. For now I think I'll just have to go with "I don't want to be in range to threaten anyone anyways".
The combat trait Muscle of the Society states:
You gain a +2 trait bonus on Strength checks made to break doors and lift portcullises, and you treat your Strength score as 2 higher for the purpose of determining your carrying capacity.
This could help with your load.
The Mount spell gives you something to ride that lasts 2 hours per level.
If you get a familiar that flies, it can land anywhere and not weigh you down.
For weapons, the only one listed with no weight is the sling, but the ammo is 1/2# each. There are a number of weapons that are only 1#. A dagger is only 1#, and is quite useful for lots of things. For ranged, the Blowgun is 1# with ammo at 1/10# each.
Alternatives for the specialist Wizard are Witch (for unusual spell learning stuff), Alchemist (takes notes different to a wizard, explaining spell issues), Oracle (he doesn't realize his spells are actually divine, and the 'spellbook' does nothing for him), or something else that allows him to think he is a wizard without being one. Given Spellcraft's importance to learning arcane spells, going divine can counter this need leaving him all mixed up.
/cevah
Thanks, gives me more things to look into!
I'm not convinced that this handicap is important enough to spend a (trait) feat on. The carrying capacity gains for str scores below 10 is pretty bad. The difference between 2 and 3 str is 4 lb, and between 3 and 4 str is a meager 3 lb. A single digit at high str scores can yield as much as a 3 point increase at the bottom of the scale.
In other words, stuff like Muscle of the Society sounds much better as a way to additionally benefit a strength build than to compensate for a strength weakness.
Which, the more I look at it, doesn't sound all that bad. Shadows will be my worst nightmare, but all these items, feats, and spells that increase carrying capacity will not change a thing for that.
A flying familiar's an idea. We never had anyone take a familiar at our table, so I'm not quite sure how they are expected to be played. A walking one tiny or smaller could just walk at my feet, I suppose?
Thanks for the sling! I had looked at that, but then saw 5lb for the ammo. I didn't realize that was for 10 of them! I could certainly carry a sling and a few bullets at a time. But then again, if I just prep an offensive cantrip (haven't determined yet which spells to prepare), Acid Splash does the same damage but targets touch AC. Also I just reread slings, takes a move to reload and my strength modifier applies to damage.
I've had a weak caster before. My previous gnome sorcerer had 5 str. A lot more than 2, granted, and I started playing him when he was higher level, but still, it wasn't a huge handicap.
I've never played in a game with that player as GM before, so I'll discover as we go what his style is. Should I expect to enter a bunch of dungeons my animals won't go into just to come and and realize my cart's been stolen? To be seen. Otherwise, there shouldn't be a major issue with just dumping stuff on a cart until I gain a few more levels. Many spells that could help out, like Ant Haul, last 2h/level. I can't afford to spam them all day long right now, but once I get more spell slots and just a higher CL overall, relying on them will be much easier. Same for Mount, I took the spell for sure, but at level 2, I'd have to burn all my slots on it if I wanted to rely on that right away.
Also, I wouldn't mind a less cheesy alternative class, but we were brainstorming together and the GM was fine with it and the adjustments to make the concept work.
I'm more concerned for my dex and con, but I guess everyone is anyways. Just gonna have to try not to draw too much flak.
Scribe Scroll. Any time you've got Downtime, make scrolls of Ant Haul. Blam; you're using the spell all day.
If you focus on Scribe Scroll, consider Cypher Magic as a feat. All spells cast from scrolls are considered +1 CL. This cuts down on the number of Ant Haul scrolls you have to use.
Consider the trait Beast Bond. +1 on both Handle Animal and Ride checks, and one becomes a Class Skill. Also look into whether or not the GM will let you take an alternate racial trait common to many of the core races, called Fey Magic. Essentially by trading out a Goblin racial trait your PC gains 3 Druid 0-level spells and 1 Level 1 spell as Spell Like Abilities usable when in a Favored Terrain you also get to pick.
Choose a terrain where your farm was likely to have been. Choose Charm Animal as your level 1 spell, Guidance as one of your 0-levels. Work with your GM to justify using your Handle Animal skill, Charm Animal, and Guidance (for a +1 on Handle Animal) to equate to starting with some kind of draft animals (not Goblin Dogs since, y'know... fleas).
For your Familiar, consider a Valet archetype. They're good at Aid Another and get Prestidigitation at will. One of the functions of Prestidigitation is moving 1 lb of material slowly. You could therefore have your Valet familiar carrying an extra dagger or something, just in case.
Valet familiars also help in crafting items. Take Craft: Baskets and Craft: Leather. Over time you and your familiar collab on making MW backpacks - a basket frame with leather skin and such. Later on, take Craft Wondrous Items and make bags of holding, handy haversacks, efficient quivers and the ever popular muleback chords.
Valet familiars also help you craft magic items. While you can't double the # of items/day you can make (still only 1/day) you do double the amount of GP worth of work you can do in a day, thereby halving the time it takes to make said items.
Carry block and tackle with you. This weighs 5 lbs unfortunately, but it grants a +5 Circumstance bonus on the...
Huh, Scribe sroll + Cypher Magic is a neat idea. It's also not overly expensive.
Beast bond is certainly thematic. I could permanently be a riding wizard. Making ride a class skill, along with the goblin racial bonus, I could get quite a high modifier. Is there any advantage to this, though?
As long as nobody else touches my goblin dogs, the allergy should be fine, right? XD
Valet familiar is interesting. He could go hopping to allies to deliver buffs. I'm not sure I want to lose Scry of Familiar, though. Could be handy if we ever want to infiltrate a location with my teleportation magic, and I use reduce person on the familiar to make it small enough to fit through small openings. I guess I could just cast the actual spell, though. What's the casting time on Scry on Familiar? Is it 1 hour, as per the spell...?
Haha, block and tackle, didn't know about that item. I could dump a few in the cart, though I suppose that for those purposes, I can just ask a meatier PC to flex some muscle on my behalf, as it needs setting up and all.
Haha, yea, I can add Mage Hand to my prepared cantrips. Transmutation spells will be on the list of things to take as well.
I like a lot of the suggestions you've made, I'm certainly reading more into them.
Edit: what kind of familiars can use UMD? For wands and scrolls and stuff?
A feat to consider for level 4 on is Ability Mastery.
Spend 500 for the Armbands Of The Brawler, and you can get a floating +2 Enhancement to a stat. It doesn't stack with belts and headbands, but hey, +2 for a feat? Not bad.
/cevah
Haha, yea, good idea. I'm certainly going to need to plan out my feat tree well.
And I probably won't be getting a belt of strength, due to how expensive belts of physical perfection are, and how my str won't be much of a concern in fights, compared to con and dex.
Hmm also good ideas. The encumbrance might not always be a problem.
We don't generally keep track of weight for all items, as it's generally needlessly tedious, but in the case of having 2 str, I think it's justified that I keep track of it. My fighter with 24+ str can have a ton of random gear without me even considering that the weight limit might soon be reached. With a light load cap of 6lb, that's quite another story. Besides, a weakness that is waived is no weakness at all, and flaws and quirks are part of what makes a character interesting.
My main worry would be leaving part of my gear unattended when my cart can't be hauled into a dungeon. I would not be amused if I were to lose a ton of scrolls like that. Bringing the cart into a dungeon crawl does not seem like a much better idea, if possible at all.
Otherwise, not being able to lift stuff is just an excuse for cooperation, in my book, and novel challenges should it ever come to matter.
(I think you messed up your quote block)
I still think this would be pretty fun (and memorable?)You could splurge and get a war trained dire bat for 450gp+60gp for an exotic military saddle! This might present some diffculties with lodging and food, but it would be pretty awesome!
My budget is tight for now, but I could consider it for in a few levels. I'm not overly familiar with the rules of flying mounts, though. Or just flying in general. Could it just hover 15ft above ground while I'm on it?
Extend Spell is definitely on the short to medium "to get" list. Our table banned the summoner, though. Also keep in mind I want to mitigate the handicap of low strength, not utterly cancel it. Overcoming his weakness to become a tank is not really what I'm aiming for, I'd rather keep the rapid spell progression of sticking to my main class.
He could have a list of “100 things to try before I die”.
Then you could mark them off every time you complete such an expirience.
Like:
Have a small talk with a fish. - Check! (speak with animals)
Touch a lightningbolt - Check (should get resist elements for my spell book)
I absolutely love this idea. It's completely fitting with the established "went out because he wanted to see the world before he died". Not sure I'll come up with 100 of them, but I'll certainly start thinking of things he wants to see or do and compile them, make his bucket list.
The campaign is meant to progress to lvl 11 so I should try to think of things that keep him busy until at least then.