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Undoubtedly, you've seen us across the forums and most likely in your local civic center. You wonder, who are those suave, attractive, and sophisticated individuals of diverse gender, ancestry, and heritage? Perhaps you've pondered how you too could join a cause that is both profitable and morally sound?
Ponder no more! We are the Thread Necromancer's Guild, championing the normalization of necromancy and undeath. And we're looking to add more qualified members to our ranks!
If you wish to join, our expectations are simple:
1) Be polite, respectful, and constructive in your conversations with others, even adherents of vitalist worldviews or the intentionally ignorant (Paladins). Undead and those who associate with them being consumed with hate and rage is a harmful stereotype.
2) We do not discriminate between the undead, living, and otherwise in our membership. Nor by ancestry, heritage, type/subtype, or any other traits. We expect members to model the same.
3) All Necromancy is good and acceptable, but be thoughtful! Just like you wouldn't raise a fledgling undead at their own funeral, don't raise dead threads simply to spend the black onyx. Unlife isn't for everyone or every thread.
4) Limit use of death effects, especially those that affect an area. Sometimes, it's better to let nature take its course. Remember, they'll live themselves to death sooner than you'd think.
5) There is no membership fee for the Guild, though we do accept donations (black onyx, gems, gold, platinum, and USD preferred). However, we'd much more prefer you use these resources to better your local undead community.
If you agree to these terms, please send your application to the Office of the Thread Necromancer's Guild, the Pale Necropolis, the Undying Realms, Undead Ohio.
Or you may post here. Membership is on a case by case basis.
And remember: "Undead yes. Unperson no."
I've been dying to join... so long as I never have to go to Ohio (Undead, or otherwise)...
RESUME:
Dhampir
Ability Score Modifiers:
+2 Dexterity, +2 Charisma, and –2 Constitution.
Type: Dhampirs are humanoids with the dhampir subtype.
Undead Resistance: Dhampirs gain a +2 racial bonus on saving throws against disease and mind-affecting effects.
Resist Level Drain (Ex): A dhampir takes no penalties from energy drain effects, though he can still be killed if he accrues more negative levels then he has Hit Dice. After 24 hours, any negative levels a dhampir takes are removed without the need for an additional saving throw.
Vampiric Empathy Though dhampirs often relate poorly to humanoids, some share an affinity with baser creatures. These dhampirs gain the ability to communicate with bats, rats, and wolves as if under the effects of a speak with animals spell (caster level equal to 1/2 the dhampir’s Hit Dice). In addition, they gain a +2 racial bonus on Diplomacy checks when dealing with these animals. Whenever these dhampirs initiate an exchange, animals begin with a starting attitude of indifferent. This is a supernatural ability.
Dayborn A few fortunate dhampirs were born during the day under the blessings of priests, and their blood has weaker ties to their undead bloodline than others of their kind. Such dhampirs are unhindered by daylight and lose the light sensitivity racial trait.
Darkvision: Dhampir see perfectly in the dark up to 60 feet.
Low-light vision: In addition to their ability to see perfectly in the dark up to 60 ft, dhampir have low-light vision, allowing them to see twice as far as humans in conditions of dim light.
Negative Energy Affinity: Though a living creature, a dhampir reacts to positive and negative energy as if it were undead—positive energy harms it, while negative energy heals it.
JuJu Oracle:
1. Orisons
1. Spells (Oracle)
1. Mystery
... Juju
1. Curse
... Lich
1. Revelation
... Undead Servitude (Command Undead)
1(level): Spell Focus (Necromancy)
2. Mystery Spell
... Speak with Animals
3. Revelation
... Spirit Vessels
3(level): Spell Specialization (Animate Dead)
4.
Gravewalker Witch:
5. Cantrips
5. Spells (Witch)
5. Spell Poppet
5. Aura of Desecration
5. Bonethrall
5(level): Extend Spell
6. Hex
... Coven
7(level): Scribe Scroll
Mystic Theurge:
8. Combined Spells (1st)
9(level): Varisian Tattoo (Necromancy)
Agent of the Grave:
10. Inspired Necromancy
10. Lich's Touch
10. Unholy Fortitude
11. Undead Manipulator
11(level): Heighten Spell
12. Negative Energy Conduit
13. Death's Shroud
13. Negative Energy Affinity
13(level): Quicken Spell
14. Secrets of Death
14. Undead Initiate
Mystic Theurge:
15. Combined Spells (2nd)
15(level): Spell Perfection (Animate Dead)
16.
17. Combined Spells (3rd)
17(level): Expanded Arcana
... two 7th level, or lower, Oracle spells
18.
19. Combined Spells (4th)
19(level):
20.
At 20:
BAB +10
Fort +8
Reflex +7
Will +14
Spontaneous Casting (Oracle):
CL 16, 8th level spells
Prepared Casting (Witch):
CL 11, 6th level spells
Introduce before level 16.
Lich curse EFFECT
You have (unknowingly) fulfilled most (but not all) of the ritualistic components to achieve lichdom. You have yet to turn into an undead creature, but you are close. You take damage from positive energy and heal from negative energy as if you were undead.
Revelations:
Spirit Vessels (Su): You can channel wendo spirits into lifeless bodies, reanimating them to aid you. When using the animate dead spell, you can control 6 HD worth of undead creatures per caster level rather than 4 HD. In addition, any zombies or juju zombies you create using animate dead, create undead, or similar spells possess maximum hit points.
Undead Servitude (Su): You gain Command Undead as a bonus feat. You can channel negative energy a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier, but only to use Command Undead. You can take other feats to add to this ability, such as Improved Channel, but not feats that alter this ability, such as Alignment Channel.
Aura of Desecration (Su)
A gravewalker can create a 25-foot-radius aura of evil power. This aura increases the DC of channeled negative energy by +1 and the turn resistance of undead by +1.
Bonethrall (Su)
A gravewalker can take control of an undead creature within her aura of desecration by forcing her will upon it (Will negates, using her hex DC.) If it fails the save, the creature falls under her control as if she had used command undead (once control is established, the undead remain controlled even if outside the witch’s aura). Intelligent undead receive a new saving throw each day to resist her command. The witch can control up to 1 HD of undead creatures per caster level. If an undead creature is under the control of another creature, the witch must make an opposed Charisma check whenever her orders conflict with that creature’s.
Possess Undead (Sp)
A gravewalker may take direct control of one of her undead minions within her aura of desecration, as if using magic jar; the witch’s poppet acts as the soul receptacle for this ability. The minion gets no saving throw against this ability.
Inspired Necromancy (Ex)
When determining the maximum number of Hit Dice of undead he can control with spells like animate dead, a character counts his Agent of the Grave levels twice. This ability does not factor into how many undead he can create with a single casting of a spell. Thus, a cleric 7/Agent of the Grave 3 would be able to control 52 Hit Dice worth of undead with animate dead.
Lich’s Touch (Su)
An Agent of the Grave becomes a conduit for negative energy and the chill powers of death, allowing him to make a melee touch attack dealing 5d6 points of damage from negative energy. This ability allows him to heal undead minions, and himself. He can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + his Charisma bonus.
Unholy Fortitude (Su)
An Agent of the Grave can tap into his conviction and bolster his health. Starting with the hit points he rolls for gaining his first Agent of the Grave level and every time he gains a level in any class thereafter, the character may choose to add either his Constitution bonus or his Charisma bonus to the number of new hit points he gains for that level.
Undead Manipulator (Ex)
An Agent of the Grave gains great insight into the minds and necromantic forces controlling undead creatures. An Agent of the Grave’s spells and spell-like abilities with mind-affecting effects treat undead creatures as their original type. Thus, an Agent of the Grave can use charm person against a humanoid zombie or confusion against a horde of skeletal champions.
Negative Energy Conduit (Ex)
An Agent of the Grave bolsters undead around him. As a standard action, an Agent of the Grave manifests an aura identical to the desecrate spell, except this foul aura has a duration of 10 minutes per level. An Agent of the Grave can use this ability once per day. In addition, any undead the Agent of the Grave creates is treated as having been created within the area of a desecrate spell.
Death’s Shroud (Su)
As an Agent of the Grave gains power within the organization, he often must infiltrate other groups to gain further knowledge. He learns how to cloak his true intentions, gaining the ability to use nondetection or undetectable alignment once per day. The caster level for this ability is equal to the Agent of the Grave’s highest caster level.
Secrets of Death (Ex)
An Agent of the Grave gains new insights into the dark arts of necromancy. At the time he gains this ability, the character may add a number of necromancy spells that are not normally a part of his class’s spell list to his spell list. The number of spells that the character may add is equal to his Intelligence modifier. For example, an Agent of the Grave with levels of wizard might choose to add spells like death watch, inflict critical wounds, and slay living to his spell list, while an Agent of the Grave with levels of cleric might choose to add spells such as enervation, magic jar, and vampiric touch. An Agent of the Grave may choose to add spells he cannot yet cast—this does not allow the Agent of the Grave to cast spells of a higher level than he normally could, but rather merely grants him access to those spells when he reaches the level required to cast them.
Undeath Initiate (Ex)
An Agent of the Grave has prepared his body and mind for the transition into undeath. He gains a +5 bonus on any ability check, skill check, or saving throw related to the process of transforming into an undead creature. This bonus can be used on any check related to becoming a creature like a lich (the process of which is largely left up to the GM’s discretion). Additionally, if slain by an undead creature with the create spawn ability, the agent of death retains his Intelligence (regardless of the type of undead he is transformed into) and free will (he is never under the control of the creature that killed him). Unless otherwise noted by the undead creature’s create spawn ability, the newly created undead Agent of the Grave loses all of his class levels. This makes transformation into a lich and vampire among the most appealing options for an Agent of the Grave seeking undeath.
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Spell Poppet
Each gravewalker carries around a gristly, inanimate poppet stitched from human skin and stuffed with shards of bone, fingernails, and grave dirt. A gravewalker’s spells come from the will of evil spirits residing in the poppet, and its ability to hold spells functions in a manner identical to the way a witch’s spells are granted by her familiar. The gravewalker must commune with her poppet each day to prepare her spells and cannot prepare spells that are not stored in the poppet.
The following familiar ability works differently for a gravewalker:
Deliver Touch Spells (Su)
At 3rd level or higher, a gravewalker can use her poppet to deliver touch spells. After casting a touch spell, as a full-round action, the witch can designate a target and stab a pin into her poppet, delivering the spell as a ranged touch attack. The target must be within range of her aura of desecration ability.
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Creating a Juju Zombie
“Juju zombie” is an acquired template that can be added to any living corporeal creature, referred to hereafter as the base creature.
CR: As base creature +1.
Alignment: Any evil.
Type: The creature’s type changes to undead. It retains any subtype except for alignment subtypes and subtypes that indicate kind.
Armor Class: A juju zombie gains a +3 bonus to its natural armor over the base creature’s natural armor bonus.
Hit Dice: Change all the creature’s racial Hit Dice to d8s. All Hit Dice derived from class levels remain unchanged. As undead, juju zombies use their Charisma modifiers to determine bonus hit points (instead of Constitution).
Defensive Abilities: Juju zombies gain channel resistance +4, DR 5/magic and slashing (or DR 10/magic and slashing if it has 11 HD or more), and fire resistance 10. They are immune to cold, electricity, and magic missile.
Speed: A winged juju zombie’s maneuverability drops to clumsy. If the base creature flew magically, its fly speed is unchanged. Retain all other movement types.
Attacks: A juju zombie retains all the natural weapons, manufactured weapon attacks, and weapon proficiencies of the base creature. It also gains a slam attack that deals damage based on the juju zombie’s size, but as if it were one size category larger than its actual size.
Abilities: Increase from the base creature as follows: Str +4, Dex +2. A juju zombie has no Constitution score; as an undead, it uses its Charisma in place of Constitution when calculating hit points, Fortitude saves, or any special ability that relies on Constitution.
Feats: A juju zombie gains Improved Initiative and Toughness as bonus feats.
Skills: A juju zombie gains a +8 racial bonus on all Climb checks.
Ryze Kuja's breakdown:
So here's the build order:
Any race, max out Int and Cha. Cha is key ability modifier in this build, so pump this higher than Int. Get Magical Knack Trait (Choose Oracle)
1: Juju Oracle 1: Undead Servitude Revelation (Command Undead as a bonus feat), Feat: Spell focus (necromancy), + any feat you want if you go Human
2: Juju Oracle 2:
3: Juju Oracle 3: Revelation: Spirit Vessels, Feat: Spell Specialization (animate dead, lesser)
4: Juju Oracle 4: 2nd lvl Oracle Spells
5: Witch1 (Gravewalker Archetype) Bonethrall acts exactly as Command Undead feat, but isn't the feat. Feat: Metamagic or Extra Hex
6: Witch 2: Hex: Coven
7: Witch 3: Familiar becomes Poppet for touch attacks at 25ft within Aura of Desecration. 2nd lvl Witch spells. Feat: Metamagic or Extra Hex
8: Mystic Theurge 1:
9: Mystic Theurge 2: Feat: Varisian Tattoo (Necromancy), change Spell Specialization to animate dead (at this point you can create up to (3+2+2+1)CL*4= 32HD of undead as a Witch and (4+2+2+2+1)*6= 66HD as a Juju Oracle using animate dead
At lvl 9:
Caster level is 3Witch + 2(Mystic Theurge) + 2(Spell Spec) +1(Varisian Tattoo)= 8*4 = 32HD Undead
Caster level is 4Oracle + 2(Mystic Theurge) + 2(Spell Spec) + 1(Varisian Tattoo) + 2(Magical Knack) = 11*6 = 66HD Undead
=98HD Undead
10-14: Agent of the Grave1-5, increase your Oracle spellcasting progression, make sure you have 3 metamagic feats before you get Spell Perfection at 15.
My recommendations are Heighten Spell, Extend Spell, Persistent Spell, Quicken Spell, or Dazing Spell.
15-20: Mystic Theurge3-8 lvl15Feat: Spell Perfection (animate dead). Spell Spec and Varisian Tattoo CL bonuses are doubled with Spell Perfection. Lvl17 & 19 feats can be anything.
At lvl 15:
Caster level is 3Witch + 3(Mystic Theurge) + 4(Spell Spec) +2(Varisian Tattoo)= 12*4 = 48HD Undead
Caster level is 4Oracle + 3(Mystic Theurge) +5AotG (counts as +10) + 4(Spell Spec) +2(Varisian Tattoo)= 23*6 = 138HD Undead
=186HD total Undead
At lvl 20:
Caster level is 3Witch + 8(Mystic Theurge) + 4(Spell Spec) +2(Varisian Tattoo)= 17*4 = 68HD Undead
Caster level is 4Oracle + 8(Mystic Theurge) +5AotG (counts as +10) + 4(Spell Spec) +2(Varisian Tattoo)= 28*6 = 168HD Undead
=236HD total Undead
This is just for Animate Dead. Get CL boosting items like Orange Prism Ioun Stone and all those numbers will go up. This is merely a "peek under the hood" for how much HD Undead you can get stock with the classes and feats. You still have Bonethrall and Undead Servitude, as well as the Command Undead spell for juggling. If you get the Undead Master Feat and use Extend Spell, you can juggle quite a bit.
By level 20, you'll cast spells like a level 17 Oracle and a level 11 Witch, and you'll have a total of 236HD Animate Dead, ~20HD Bonethrall (whatever your total CL is + items), 4HD Undead Servitude (Oracle class level), and whatever you can juggle with Command Undead spell. And you'll have a Coven of Witches :D Throw the Leadership feat in there for additional follower shenanigans and you'll have quite the zoo following you around :P
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I've been dying to join... so long as I never have to go to Ohio (Undead, or otherwise)...
Believe me, nobody wants to live in Ohio of any variety.
This application is approved!
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What's all this now? Back in my day all undead were soulless monsters, and we liked it like that! You kids and you're sympathetic, caring undead, you don't know how good you have it!
We respect your opinions, and look forward to revisiting this conversation post-mortem.
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This is going to be a most lucrative business arrangement.
This is going to be a most lucrative business arrangement.
I will need to establish regular shipments, if possible.
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*starts picketing from street*
Do not support this vile organization that uses clever words and inclusive language to distract you from the fact that they engage in activities that rob the universe of its vital energy, namely that of Positive Energy, and are themselves fueled by its anti-thesis, Negative Energy! Save the Universe from their encroachment!
-----------------------------------
Sorry, couldn't help it. Don't let my name fool you. I know what I am and that I am a blight on the very fabric of the universe. I won't pretend to be something I am not. I am a 'bad guy', a monster and the incarnation of the void, but I am not a 'bad' guy.
People automaticly think Necromancers are Baad. But consider this there are hundreds of murdering psychos running around sometimes getting bad to butcher people. Most necromancers just make friends quite literally in some cases. Some are quite nice and friendly really. Some are quite artistic using and or favoring bone design. I'm not a fan of zombies too slow and they smell.
Most Necromancers are 'bad', evil even. Regardless of their intentions, or confidence in their ability to control their creations, they are willfully engaging with [Evil] to cast a spell that, as its sole purpose, is to reanimate a dead body with an energy diametrically opposed to that which gives life, and that creates (for the most part) ravenous and murderous mockeries of life bent on killing everything living around them.
Intentions are important. Actions are important. But so are the choices you make in the pursuit of your intended goal. In the end, that is what alignment boils down to. How far are you willing to go? Toying with objectively evil forces that, with just the slightest slip of control, would rampage and kill without hesitation?
Don't get me wrong. I am sure YOUR Necromancer is one helluva a nice guy. Still he's dong some shady *expletive* and that worries me.
Negative energy already existed before I started using it.
The dead bodies already existed before I started using them.
Where is this assumption that life = good coming from?
Don't get me wrong... I am not good. I do not pretend to be good. If you only knew what I had to do to get where I am today...
Forgive the intrusion, but to add: Isn't decay the natural state of living things anyways? Everything that is born, is born dying, the pace just speeds up as we age...
Hmm...
Can we nominate others for membership? I would like to nominate Majuba, for reviving this thread. And from his post, he clearly knew what he was doing.
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I don't think it's the zombies or skeletons, themselves, that makes these spells so-called "evil"...
I think it has something to do with me joyfully yanking your soul from its place amoungst God's debris, and using its energies to fuel my creations.
Supposedly, that soul "belongs" somewhere... and me using it for my own business is apparently "evil"...
Most Necromancers are 'bad', evil even. Regardless of their intentions, or confidence in their ability to control their creations, they are willfully engaging with [Evil] to cast a spell that, as its sole purpose, is to reanimate a dead body with an energy diametrically opposed to that which gives life, and that creates (for the most part) ravenous and murderous mockeries of life bent on killing everything living around them.
Intentions are important. Actions are important. But so are the choices you make in the pursuit of your intended goal. In the end, that is what alignment boils down to. How far are you willing to go? Toying with objectively evil forces that, with just the slightest slip of control, would rampage and kill without hesitation?
Don't get me wrong. I am sure YOUR Necromancer is one helluva a nice guy. Still he's dong some shady *expletive* and that worries me.
This is exactly what we mean about prejudices and stereotypes around the undead. And not fault of your own, if course, but we'd like to help show you that we're not all "Baad".
None of us are going to go on a rampage and kill. We're polite, productive members of civil society. We're used to being called evil, surely, but judge us by our actions not your dusty old 1st Edition tome.
I don't think it's the zombies or skeletons, themselves, that makes these spells so-called "evil"...
I think it has something to do with me joyfully yanking your soul from its place amoungst God's debris, and using its energies to fuel my creations.
Supposedly, that soul "belongs" somewhere... and me using it for my own business is apparently "evil"...
While we very much appreciate your valid and well-thought-out arguments, here at the Thread Necromancer's Guild we find that vitalists tend to base their arguments on emotion and not reason.
Best to show patience and kindness, and if that doesn't work, liberal use of energy drain and create greater undead usually suffices.
This is exactly what we mean about prejudices and stereotypes around the undead. And not fault of your own, if course, but we'd like to help show you that we're not all "Baad".
Its not about the individuals engaged in this behavior. I am sure you are a very 'nice' person. It is simply the power you toy with and the inevitable repercussions of your actions on the overall balance of the powers in the universe. We can objectively measure the amount of [Evil] in your spells, track the enslavement of souls through the inability to resurrect our fallen comrades whose bodies you have hijacked, and rapid harm that the use of negative energy has on the life force of the world around you.
None of us are going to go on a rampage and kill. We're polite, productive members of civil society. We're used to being called evil, surely, but judge us by our actions not your dusty old 1st Edition tome.
I reject your assertion. While most of you intelligent undead are smart enough to keep to yourselves and behave, every single one of your mindless undead is quite capable of going on a murderous rampage with the slightest slip of your control over them.
There is a reason why many civilized people do not trust the rampantly evil and murderous orcs within the Belkzen territories, along with scores of other intelligent, yet evil beings. Given the opportunity, capability and drive, you have zero moral barriers that would prevent you from choosing to do whatever your heart desires. This is an important distinction between Good and Evil, and one that defines the moral struggles throughout the cosmology.So, while I will judge you based on your actions, as is a fairly basic requirement of both the Lawful and Good alignment spectrum, that does not make us blind to the danger that you present.
Also, more OOC than anything else, I never played 1st edition or derive any kind of D&D alignment distinctions from it that isnt present in later editions. I simply take them to their logical conclusions.
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I believe we have many more examples of the living going on murderous rampages... and they are generally in complete control of themselves when they do it.
Please, don't judge the unliving I release from my control to unlive their unlives... they are no more or less dangerous than the living. The living choose to do it, my released unliving are simply "hungry"...? Whatever they may be, they aren't choosing to be murderous and evil, like you mortals constantly choose to be.
But, mortals, please continue to be vile and evil on your own... your actions provide me with plenty of fresh bodies to utilize and welcome into undeath.
I believe we have many more examples of the living going on murderous rampages... and they are generally in complete control of themselves when they do it.
And we have no issues with labeling them as Evil, either. Undead simply have the distinct disadvantage that they are literally imbued with [Evil] energy, and such things were used to create them. Their basic nature is that of [Evil] and outside of a sentient will behind them, they will act accordingly. We capture, judge and put down Evil living being all the time when they do harm to others. Undead are not different in this regard.
Please, don't judge the unliving I release from my control to unlive their unlives... they are no more or less dangerous than the living. The living choose to do it, my released unliving are simply "hungry"...? Whatever they may be, they aren't choosing to be murderous and evil, like you mortals constantly choose to be.
Sorry, but no. They are more dangerous than the living because of their basic nature. At best, lacking sentience, they are wild animals seeking to devour everything but have a never ending hunger. We put down dangerous animals and the same goes for uncontrollable monstrosities.
But, mortals, please continue to be vile and evil on your own... your actions provide me with plenty of fresh bodies to utilize and welcome into undeath.
That won't be be an issue. Evil runs rampant when it is not stopped. It ruins and degrades the lives of those around them, from ambient energy to vile choices made that harm innocents and corrupt them through their actions. Evil is the source of all (ie, read most, as not accounting for simple accidental pain) suffering in this universe and the Undead are simply a self-propagating form of it.
Try and justify your existence all you want. Try to shift the blame to the living as if it washes your hands of your own choices or basic nature. The universe itself recognizes you for what you are. As DeathlessOne, I fully acknowledge and accept what undeath means and all that goes along with it. Why do you run and hide from the truth of what you are?
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Fresh onyx!
Get your fresh onyx here!
I believe we have many more examples of the living going on murderous rampages... and they are generally in complete control of themselves when they do it.And we have no issues with labeling them as Evil, either. Undead simply have the distinct disadvantage that they are literally imbued with [Evil] energy, and such things were used to create them. Their basic nature is that of [Evil] and outside of a sentient will behind them, they will act accordingly. We capture, judge and put down Evil living being all the time when they do harm to others. Undead are not different in this regard.
Please, don't judge the unliving I release from my control to unlive their unlives... they are no more or less dangerous than the living. The living choose to do it, my released unliving are simply "hungry"...? Whatever they may be, they aren't choosing to be murderous and evil, like you mortals constantly choose to be.Sorry, but no. They are more dangerous than the living because of their basic nature. At best, lacking sentience, they are wild animals seeking to devour everything but have a never ending hunger. We put down dangerous animals and the same goes for uncontrollable monstrosities.
But, mortals, please continue to be vile and evil on your own... your actions provide me with plenty of fresh bodies to utilize and welcome into undeath.That won't be be an issue. Evil runs rampant when it is not stopped. It ruins and degrades the lives of those around them, from ambient energy to vile choices made that harm innocents and corrupt them through their actions. Evil is the source of all (ie, read most, as not accounting for simple accidental pain) suffering in this universe and the Undead are simply a self-propagating form of it.
Try and justify your existence all you want. Try to shift the blame to the living as if it washes your hands of your own choices or basic nature. The universe itself recognizes you for what you are. As DeathlessOne, I...
Now this is a wonderful discussion. Something I can debate until the end of time... well, your time... for I am timeless and eternal.
Seems mortals are constantly hunting and killing everything they label "evil"... as if they are the grand deciders of natural and unnatural in this universe... like it was previously decided that mortals, for whatever reason, and given dominion over controlling what is right and wrong...
Fools... what you mortals call "evil" is the natural state of existence.
Everything leads to decay and destruction in the natural environment... you mortals should be most aware that this is the natural state of things. It defines your existence. The foundations of your mortal sciences conclude that gravity pulls things together, eventually forming colossal masses that consume and destroy everything within their ever-growing reach... is gravity "evil"?... no, it's just there, simply exists, like it always has and always will... consumption and destruction are as natural as can be.
Is fire "evil" for mindlessly consuming everything around it? Your mortal judgements are flawed and weak...
Your mortal "goodness" is a cancer to the natural order. You constantly hunt and kill everything that is counter to your temporary existence, with no concerns that you have no right to meddle in eternal affairs.
Mortals lack the breadth of understanding to be trusted with decisions that can affect the natural order of the universe. None of you fools will ever live to see the repercussions of your choices...
Now this is a wonderful discussion. Something I can debate until the end of time... well, your time... for I am timeless and eternal.
Seems you continue to misunderstand my username, VoodistMonk. And do not think of yourself as eternal. Not even the gods are that.
Seems mortals are constantly hunting and killing everything they label "evil"... as if they are the grand deciders of natural and unnatural in this universe... like it was previously decided that mortals, for whatever reason, and given dominion over controlling what is right and wrong...
Yes, there are often mortals (and immortals) that throw around the word 'evil' as if they can assign it to anything they dislike or disagree with. But you overlook the simple fact of our existence in this universe. Good and Evil, Law and Chaos are objective, fundamental forces that shape the Outer Realms and bleed over into the Material realm through moral decisions made by the mortals. Even the gods bow before these fundamental forces and are shaped by them. Blame the architect of this universe if you continue to have problems with it, though I doubt it will listen.
Fools... what you mortals call "evil" is the natural state of existence.
Hogwash.
Everything leads to decay and destruction in the natural environment... you mortals should be most aware that this is the natural state of things. It defines your existence. The foundations of your mortal sciences conclude that gravity pulls things together, eventually forming colossal masses that consume and destroy everything within their ever-growing reach... is gravity "evil"?... no, it's just there, simply exists, like it always has and always will... consumption and destruction are as natural as can be.
You place yourself, and the very fundamental force of entropy you represent (negative energy) far above your station. The natural state of this universe is Chaos, represented by the very cosmic forces that run rampant throughout the Outer Planes, a place not even Negative Energy can compare to (for it is a small place, trapped within the Inner Planes and not part of the greater spheres). It is the one force that attempts to consume and remake all of existence, and that every other Outer Plane stands against. Every soul that passes through our universe eventually takes part it holding that force back.
The Material Realm is merely a place where souls are forged in this cosmic battle. A place for them to grow and struggle. A place where the forces YOU and I serve, also serve to keep things in balance and draw in the power of the Positive Energy plane so that events do not stagnant and run to a stop. But we are corruptions of that energy, tainted by the forces of Evil through their own insidious machinations, to corrupt and taint more of the Material realm so that their own forces are all that is left to fight against the Maelstrom.
Unless you actually serve powers that lay beyond the Outer Planes, beyond the deep chasms of the Abyss, and that seek to rupture this small isolated pocket of Order that exists in the greater void of the unknown? If this is true, then you are an enemy to everything that exists.
Is fire "evil" for mindlessly consuming everything around it? Your mortal judgements are flawed and weak...
My moral justifications appear to be factors above your own if you think that comparing the ability for fire to destroy is anything relevant to the cosmic force of evil. You might as well mention all the 'good' fire is used for. It is a force that brings warmth and life giving energy into the Material Realm, just the other elemental forces in the Inner Planes.
Your mortal "goodness" is a cancer to the natural order. You constantly hunt and kill everything that is counter to your temporary existence, with no concerns that you have no right to meddle in eternal affairs.
Not even the gods have a right to meddle in eternal affairs, and yet they persist in doing so. As I said before, not even they are eternal.
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Fresh onyx!
Get your fresh onyx here!
You move along. I already have an established business contract with this guild.
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Ahh, DeathlessOne, I may have underestimated you. Your name possibly should have given me a clue, but I put little stock in titles.
You seem to have an intricate and respectable knowledge of the cosmos and their inner workings. I will agree that chaos is the most natural state of the universe. Negative Energy represents the consequence of that chaos, and I represent the embodiment of Negative Energy.
Through tireless research, relentless obsession, grotesque ritual, and unspeakable personal expense I have welcomed chaos into my being, and have become one with the very forces of entropy. I gave up the inevitable, to become the inevitable. So long ago, that was. Now, Mongo only pawn in game of unlife.
And I only jest about being eternal, for not even the gods have earned such status. I serve no higher purpose from beyond the Outer Planes. I serve no one but myself (proudly evil if it makes me such)... and the ultimate, undeniable will of cosmic chaos.
Ahh, DeathlessOne, I may have underestimated you. Your name possibly should have given me a clue, but I put little stock in titles.
Titles tend to have little meaning in the End, after all. I hold nothing against you for the oversight. What is a slight misunderstanding compared to the vast ages we have before us?
You seem to have an intricate and respectable knowledge of the cosmos and their inner workings. I will agree that chaos is the most natural state of the universe. Negative Energy represents the consequence of that chaos, and I represent the embodiment of Negative Energy.
I take little pride in my own knowledge of the workings of the Universe, for even I see the fruitlessness of the entire endeavor, this struggle against the formless and ever shifting tides of Chaos. In the inevitable End, Order will lose its battle to the Maelstrom and, in that loss, be consumed. It will be undone. It will be remade. And it will be reborn, time and time again. Regardless of the truths that we hold ourselves to, in the face of Chaos, all outcomes are inevitable.
Though, I must still disagree with you on the nature of Negative Energy and its relation to the Maelstrom. While, yes, its form and function are a representation of the storm, alone it is nothing more than simple entropy and destruction. It serves to break down the bonds that hold the living to their material shells, and when given shape by other forms of cosmic power (such as [Evil]) it can assume roles that are a mockery of its true nature. For it alone does not animate the shells we exist within. No, it harnesses the very souls of the beings that previously inhabited these bodies (or something akin to them that still house that spark of the Positive plane) in order to give us this unlife.
Through tireless research, relentless obsession, grotesque ritual, and unspeakable personal expense I have welcomed chaos into my being, and have become one with the very forces of entropy. I gave up the inevitable, to become the inevitable. So long ago, that was. Now, Mongo only pawn in game of unlife.
Naturally. To break free of the River of souls, one must perform such rituals to completely sever their tethers. Though, I do fault you with only one thing. The choice to embrace Chaos feels ... cowardly to me. It stinks of utter submission to a particular power, even one that pretends to give you all the freedom you could ever desire. It will come to destroy us all in the end, servant or enemy. I choose to work against it.
And I only jest about being eternal, for not even the gods have earned such status. I serve no higher purpose from beyond the Outer Planes. I serve no one but myself (proudly evil if it makes me such)... and the ultimate, undeniable will of cosmic chaos.
Indeed? I spoke my feelings just above on the choice to serve chaos. It will not care about you or your accomplishments. It will run over them as it does all things. I have no illusions about the temporal nature of my own machination, or delusions about being able to stand against the wave of chaos when it comes crashing down on me. But I will do so with defiance and pride, even at the side of the forces of Good, should such an alliance become prudent.
An eternity exists between now and when I originally made my decisions... my intentions then are surely as flawed and foolish as the mortal that made them.
Was I afraid of the eternal chaos? Did submit to it? I don't care, or remember, honestly.
What matters now is that I am the flagbearer/bannerman/herald of entropy, I will proudly go ahead and lay out the red carpet for the eternal chaos' arrival. If I ever slow, or falter, in this task... then I derserve to be consumed with the rest of the trash currently in existence.
Whether I am chaos, or an agent of chaos, matters not to me... it's been so long that I fail to see a difference, when the outcome is inevitably the same...
What matters now is that I am the flagbearer/bannerman/herald of entropy, I will proudly go ahead and lay out the red carpet for the eternal chaos' arrival. If I ever slow, or falter, in this task... then I derserve to be consumed with the rest of the trash currently in existence.
Well, to use a mortal phrase: I hate to break it to you. Chaos has no sense of fairness, justice or compensation. Oblivion awaits us all.
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Now, Mongo only pawn in game of unlife.
Bless you, you cheeky blighter.
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Yes, there are often mortals (and immortals) that throw around the word 'evil' as if they can assign it to anything they dislike or disagree with. But you overlook the simple fact of our existence in this universe. Good and Evil, Law and Chaos are objective, fundamental forces that shape the Outer Realms and bleed over into the Material realm through moral decisions made by the mortals. Even the gods bow before these fundamental forces and are shaped by them. Blame the architect of this universe if you continue to have problems with it, though I doubt it will listen.
So your argument boils down to Undead are evil because they're evil, and they're icky and my cousin Ted the paladin says they're likely to go murdering like those nasty orcs.
Except we're not all evil, and being evil isn't a crime anyway.
We're powered by negative energy, which is as much a vital part of the universe as positive energy or the elements.
But you are right about one thing - nothing lasts forever. The problem with your moniker is that you only have to be wrong once.
Oh, and the architects you mentioned? They change their mind all the time.
We're more than happy to continue this conversation posthumously and see if your opinions have changed at all.
Fairness, justice, or compensation?!
The way I see it, chaos has given me way more than I could ever pay back in return. My services in the name of chaos come free of charge, in fact, it's my pleasure, my greatest honor.
I am forever grateful and indebted to the external chaos... how else could I have shed my mortal baggage and enjoyed this freedom, this carnage, this discombobulated splendor for so long?
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So your argument boils down to Undead are evil because they're evil, and they're icky and my cousin Ted the paladin says they're likely to go murdering like those nasty orcs.
No, my argument boils down to that they are objectively Evil, they radiate measurable amounts of [Evil] regardless of their actual alignment, measurable amounts of [Evil] are detectable while the Animate Dead spell is being cast, their creation objectively blocks the ability for the soul that belonged to the animated body from returning to life even if it was willing/able, and .. more subjectively, their existence relies on forces that are diametrically opposed to that which allows life to exist.
Now, you are free to continue to ignore all these reasons I just gave you (as you have done if you've read any of my other posts), but all you need to do to prove the [Evil] nature of these beings is put a few ranks in use magic device, go pick up a scroll of detect evil (or a wand!) and use the magic item. You don't need to rely on the word of a Paladin (though, they are often above reproach and do not lie as part of their very oath).
Except we're not all evil, and being evil isn't a crime anyway.
Yes, all of you are (to a degree). Whether or not your alignment is Evil, the cosmic force that Evil aligned people eventually gravitate towards in the Outer Realms permeates every ounce of your shell. As for Evil being a crime? No, but actions taken that tend to give one an Evil alignment usually tend to be. At the very least, being Evil makes you suspect for a number of different reasons. Besides, only the Lawful truly care if something is a crime or not.
We're powered by negative energy, which is as much a vital part of the universe as positive energy or the elements.
And [Evil], don't for get that. It is that corruption of the negative energy that allows for our mockery of life to even exist.
But you are right about one thing - nothing lasts forever. The problem with your moniker is that you only have to be wrong once.
But I would need to be wrong. We have objective methods to test whether or not the corruption of [Evil] is present within your being. Would you submit to be tested? I would and I fully expect to radiate that aura of cosmic [Evil].
Oh, and the architects you mentioned? They change their mind all the time.
I spoke of a single architect. Any that come after, through misunderstanding of the lore or internal biases that seek gratification, can seek to alter the narrative any way they wish. I stick to the eternally consistent and valid worldview, and let others play pretend as they wish.
We're more than happy to continue this conversation posthumously and see if your opinions have changed at all.
Posthumously? What makes you think for an instant that I belong to the land of the living? I am DeathlessOne. I tasted Death once and waved to her as she carried others down the River of Souls. I know what I am. Why do you still play pretend?
I her my "D" in a box... I mean soul... put my soul in a figurative box, and figuratively gave it to her [Death]. Whereupon she nodded and told me we would never meet again...
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[Application Redacted for Privacy Reasons]
We're delighted to inform you that your application for "Plague Zombie" has been approved and fastracked. We look forward to working together soon!
-The Thread Necromancer's Guild.
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You move along. I already have an established business contract with this guild.Fresh onyx!
Get your fresh onyx here!
But how *fresh* is it?
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The title lead me to think you were looking for old (dead) threads that were necroed.
Here is the oldest necro I spotted: ~10 years.
/cevah
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The title lead me to think you were looking for old (dead) threads that were necroed.
Here is the oldest necro I spotted: ~10 years.
/cevah
We have received your application and are now reviewing it. It looks like you bring a lot to the table! Thank you for your interest in our completely legitimate and moral organization.
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Deathless one and VoodistMonk
I think we all need to remember the one thing we can agree on the planet we live on is the greatest and most lovely as a Samsaran Druid I proudly cast my Necromancy to serve nature. By using skeletons you can give the much needed meat off the bones of zombies to the plants and animals that need nutrients. Then once the skeleton dies grind it's bones into bone meal for crop growth. Mother Gaia is amazing and should be treasured by all no matter things like alignment.
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Deathless one and VoodistMonk
I think we all need to remember the one thing we can agree on the planet we live on is the greatest and most lovely as a Samsaran Druid I proudly cast my Necromancy to serve nature. By using skeletons you can give the much needed meat off the bones of zombies to the plants and animals that need nutrients. Then once the skeleton dies grind it's bones into bone meal for crop growth. Mother Gaia is amazing and should be treasured by all no matter things like alignment.
Nothing wrong with a little bit of necromancy. Negative Energy is part of the natural cycle, after all. But alignment is important. Without it, we wouldn't see most of the corruptive forces that pervert the use of negative energy or call down alien beings from the Outer Realms that fundamentally alter the realm around them. Things like death and decay would give way to new life, not unlife.
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Response removed for privacy reasons.
Thanks for checking in on us! We have number of qualified candidates to work through, and may not get back to you immediately. Don't worry, we haven't forgotten you. If we run out of "Plague Zombie" positions, there's always the "Belching Beheaded" position which we believe you are uniquely suited for!
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Deathless one and VoodistMonk
I think we all need to remember the one thing we can agree on the planet we live on is the greatest and most lovely as a Samsaran Druid I proudly cast my Necromancy to serve nature. By using skeletons you can give the much needed meat off the bones of zombies to the plants and animals that need nutrients. Then once the skeleton dies grind it's bones into bone meal for crop growth. Mother Gaia is amazing and should be treasured by all no matter things like alignment.
This application is approved! Welcome to the team!
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ALL SHALL BE CONSUMED BY THE PERFECTION OF UNDEATH!
mwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahaha
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ALL SHALL BE CONSUMED BY THE PERFECTION OF UNDEATH!
mwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahaha
It's a work in progress. *shrugs*
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This application is approved! Welcome to the team!
My participation in the Guild will remain as more of a 3rd party contractor, rather than a full fledged member. Thank you for the invite, but it is not yet time for me to embrace undeath at this point.
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This application is approved! Welcome to the team!My participation in the Guild will remain as more of a 3rd party contractor, rather than a full fledged member. Thank you for the invite, but it is not yet time for me to embrace undeath at this point.
We're disappointed in your decision, but we understand that you'd prefer to pursue opportunities elsewhere. The Thread Necromancer's Guild wishes you the best in your future endeavors.
We look forward to revisiting this issue in the future. The Thread Necromancer's Guild is always looking for new talent.