Greaver Blade's page

So, things are a little hectic right now. I got quite a few card bases done, and I need to get the art set up for them. However, more important is that I find a job right now.

I'll keep going with the cards, but with the beta release fast approaching, I might find a more appropriate outlet to announce them. However, I'll keep going with them, since they are fun.

Also, thanks again for the suggestions and general positive reaction. If I had the means, I would attempt to sell these, but for the time being, I think freely handing them out will be ok.

Sorry all. Been busy lately. I'm going to work up another batch over the week end. Started playing Ragnarok Online again, and since it's a double EXP week end, I'll be at my computer plenty now. Go go dual monitor! RO on the left, Photoshop on the right.

I'm actually going to end up remaking more or less every card. There's been a significant request for the originals, and I honestly didn't save them individually as layered .psd's. Additionally, Photobucket won't let me upload the filetype. So, goal for the time being is to remake them all, save each psd, put all the cards themselfs on photobucket, and provide a download link for a megapack of everything.

Depending upon how busy she is, I might bug my artist to create some new art for each card isntead of my current system of using clip art and wingding fonts.

Edit: Would people like a PDF of each card in a 3x3 sheet for easy printing?

Yeah, they definitely should NOT be spell-likes. Even without XP costs, a free 25,000 gp a day is horribly, horribly overpowered. Give the Wizard a month of down time and he can add +5 to all his attributes for free. Two months, and he can give it to a buddy as well.

Actually, with the rewritten wish, he can't give himself +5 to everything, or anybody else.

"-Grant a creature a +1 inherent bonus to an ability score by reducing another ability score."

Which was the subject of it's own thread. A lot of people didn't like that change to wish.

Honestly, the removal of XP penalties may be the way Pathfinder is going. Remember, this isn't D&D any more. This is a good deal more of a power game. If it's too over the top, I suggest simply using the version of the spell you prefer, and implimenting whatever costs you prefer. Remember Rule Zero.

Bonus type is actually a really good idea. Heh, looks like I get to remake quite a few cards. I think I got it listed on Mage Armor and Shield, but not on the X's Attributes cards.

As for a downloadable template, I want to finish up a big batch first. That way I can pack the template and the .psd's for each and every card in to one big download. Right now I can't put up the template on Photobucket, since it doesn't recognize the image format. Once I get all these redone, I'll pack them in to one big .rar and toss it up on Megaupload or something.

Glad people are finding use for these in their game!

Freedom now up.

Anybody know what the dot next to the thread means?

Let's look at a real world comparison: Las Vegas. In the middle of an arid desert area, but nearly everyone has a pool in their back yard, and people live comfortable normal lives there.

I like this one.

Indoor multistory plumbing existed more than two thousand years ago. Two oceans were connected in the 1920s. The city of Chicago is built on what used to be a swamp.

People do amazing things without magic. Giving magic an extra little boost really doesn't make things that much easier most of the time. Honestly, I like the idea of an unlimited water font cleric or druid. It gives them that much more importance to the group. Like the man says above, a magically made oasis is a neat plot point and general locale.

Clerics and druids are granted thier spells. They don't simply get them. If a GM needs to have a rationale for clerics in the desert not all making swimming pools for nomads, then simply say their god cannot or does not grant the spell. Desert druids? Nature does not provide for easy water in the desert, because there isn't easy water in the desert.

I still don't understand why exactly Create Water is this be all end all game breaking spell. What makes it being at will so good?

I don't understand the overwhemling power of 2 gallons of water per level. It's not like it can be used in any practical means to create a really large volume of water in any small amount of time.

What specific examples make the spell so over powered now?

I think it's more the idea of "Woah, I can make a lot of water!" and not the idea of "Who's honestly going to waste that much time making that much water?"

Bah, I'll get on the error corrections right away. Anyways, a handy DM tool up for those who may have missed it. Take a look for it, though I don't want to spoil the suprise.

Also, feel free to link them on other boards. I'll probably put a small "By Greaver" on each card in the future, and put better art on each of them. I have an artist who's willing to do stuff for each of the cards I make. I should probably find some more places to post these, too.

Anyways, thanks for all the positive feedback. I'll keep making more.

Part of GMing is making tough calls. Do you allow that prestige class knowing it can be easily abused? Do you ban something outright? Do you make unpopular desicions?

One player should never ruin a campaign. If one person absolutely must imbalance the game, then that player doesn't need to be a part of the campaign. They are there to have fun for themselves, not help make the experience fun for everybody. Any player who plays for the sole purpose of personal power and says to hell with the rest of the party shouldn't be in the game in the first place.

A GM is in charge. Period. If players don't like that, and the game collapses, that's sort of too bad for every body. The trick is to understand why it happened. Was it one player who wanted to tweak out his character? Was it the whole group wanting a power game, and you wanted something with deep enriching story? A GM's primary job is to provide the game for the players, and to make sure everybody has fun.

A new GM is taking a big responsibility. Some people simply aren't meant to GM. If they can't deal with the conflicts, the pressure, the story, the need to keep track of every detail, and especially the need to deal with players, then they probably shouldn't GM. They may be bursting with ideas for an amazing campaign. They may want to work through that campaign. But, honestly, if they can't handle it, they shouldn't do it.

Everybody has something in mind when they start up a campaign. Something WILL go wrong. That's how GMing works. I have sympathy for the new GMs starting out, but honestly, not everybody is cut out to handle it. Broad rules and "GM discretion" are part of the game. Most of the game is GM discretion.

Talking with players before hand about their goals is important. Obligating them to certain things may sound kind of not fun, but if they agree to it, they cannot complain later.

I've had...8 character changeups since my most recent campaign started. We've played a total of about 4 sessions. Does this bother me? Not in the least. It doesn't much affect the story, and we are early on enough with little plot development that people can mix it up a bit to find thier niche. I had one player who hated arcane casters. Refused to play them. Jumped from Artificer to Druid, then was thinking of going fighter, when the group allready had 4 other melee classes. Working with that player, I convinced him to roll a Wizard instead. He agreed on the condition that I build it for him. Time consuming and a little obnoxious? Yes. Big yes. I hate building arcane casters. In the fight that followed he was nearly killed several times, none of his spells did much of anything, and I had to be very generous with certain interpretations of the rules. Was it worth it? Yes. Big yes. Everybody had fun. The useless wizard had a blast, because he ALMOST hit something with his elemental ray. His magic missile did JUST enough for the next guy in initiative to drop the enemy with his next hit. The fight was hard. I made it hard so they'd all have to stretch their legs, and work for the win. And they won. Hard fought, lots of positive energy channeling, but everybody was satisfied with the win. Even the players who got hosed on roles and did very little had a blast. The player who barely knew what was going on had fun, because she got to pretend to shank some bad guys. Everything leading up to the encounter told me that it had the potential for utter disaster. I ran with it anyways, confident that my player mix would enjoy it, win or lose, and I was right.

GMing is hard. Being unable to GM isn't a bad thing. Means you get to spend less time book keeping and more time coming up with ways to mess with your GM. As long as people understand that not everybody can do it, things like prestige classes become less of a problem.

Also: This is a handy tool.

Is any of this content owned by Paizo? Is any of it OGL? As I recall, Dragon content was 100% owned by WotC.

Couple more cards up.

Haste
Dead

Coming up:

Freedom
Gaseous
Incorporeal
Ehtereal
Enlarge
Reduce
Blur
Displacement
Invisibility (and Greater)
Geas/ Quest (and lesser)
Deafened
Silenced

And some more. Is there any demand for offensive spells? I've commissioned (sort of) an artist to make art for these, so gimme lists.

Dungeon Master's Guide 3.5
Page 176
"Prestige classes are purely optional and always under the purview of the DM. We encourage you, as the DM, to tightly limit the prestige classes available in your campaign."

The rule is allready in place, in print, clearly stated. It can simply be stated again. Wmy muck about with printing additional special rules, restrictions, and clutter when a perfectly good one is right there.

A very large number of prestige classes now are designed to be chosen by the player before the campaign starts (see Drunken Master and Frenzied Berserker). These are still at GM discrestion. If a player wants to takes these classes at the lowest possible level at which he can qualify for it, then that's an issue that the GM and player need to work out together.

Again, printed rule is "GM has discretion." I simply don't see a need for a printed rule beyond that.

Oh, and, whoops, there's a typo on Bull's Strength (The "strenght" of a bull is formidable...)

I screw up the spelling of that word every single time I type it.

Anyways, keep posting individual spell requests. I'm going to finish up Haste later, once I can find a good image or WingDing for it. I'm also going to try to find something for Shield of Faith.

Any spell players or DMs would like is fair game. I'm thinking of doing some offensive spells as well, including simple ones, just so players can hold the spell and toss it down as they cast it. Conceptually, a wizard player could keep these in a binder as his spell book, and track spells known and prepared that way. Also check out the divine spells lists, and see what would be good there.

Updated with some more cards. Added the following:

Bull's Strength
Cat's Grace
Bear's Endurance
Fox's Cunning
Owl's Wisdom
Eagle's Splendor
Mage Armor
Shield

I figured popular low level spells would be a good idea for easy tracking purposes. I went with what I consider to be the 7 most popular low levels spells that are used even by high level parties.

Heh, looks like I have more work to do. I'll upload more and update versions later today.

Are there any other effects people would like to see? I'll work out the rest of the printed conditions. Should I do poisons and diseases as well?

If possible, I'll post the .pst base as well, so that people can make their own with the premade layers and text boxes.

So, because I have way too much free time, I decided to have some fun in Photoshop, and provide a handy tool for fellow GMs: Status Condition cards.

Check it out here: Image Madness

Grab them from the site and distribute them as you see fit. I find that printing them in a 3x3 array with Windows Photo Gallery (Windows Picture and Fax Viewer in XP) yields some good results. I also suggest laminating them, so players can write on them then wipe them off easily, though any numeric values can be dealt with using dice. Put those D12s to use! Don't forget to reduce the size on them. They are by default pretty big.

Each card has a color version (sort of?) for those who like copy stores or buying new ink, and a black and white version for those who like cheap or happen to have reams and reams of ivory colored cardstock sitting around their apartments because a certain relation thought it would be a great idea to purchase heaping piles of it.

Anyways, I hope people like these. I'll try to work up some more quick reference cards later.

Well, nothing overly exciting during playtesting today. We put the skill to use with some defensive skilling, and a little with the CMB DC modifier. All in all it worked out well enough. Nothing game breaking. Granted, my players had some particularly hateful dice, but eh, happens to the best of us. After two hours of rather savage combat, the over all reaction was along the lines of "I'm glad I had it rather than not." Which is what I'm after with the skill. Nothing gamebreakingly good, but it gets the job done.

I did consider that one, and though I personally like it, I know there would be a vocal opposition to it. The group I see griping the most would be monks.

That usage would, unfortunately, partially mirrior one of their class abilities. Granted, the monk one is supposed to be used offensively, but it applied defensively as well. Additionally, any time you let another class something monks have, they tend to get upset. That's why the Complete Adventurer Ninja is so mediocre compared to the monk; if they had copied too many abilities and made it a good monk with weapons sort of class, then you reduce the usefulness of the orignial class.

I can see any class with full BAB progression getting upset as well. I know that I personally wouldn't particularly like having all my special attacks as a fighter easily negated by some book worm wizard.

I will gladly agree that it would be cool to use that way, and I did actually test it that way for a bit. However, it simply proved too power. Which of course meant that all my low BAB players wanted to keep it... The DC increase seemed to make everybody happy, and as such, was the more effective solution. Perhaps getting away from the whole "Everything skill related must be based on multiples of five" rut that the game has gotten itself stuck in. So, doing +1 to the defense DC for every 4 ranks would up the usefullness a bit more, and get the benefit a bit sooner. It also brings the total DC to a nice 20 AT level 20, so it's still easy to remember.

Also, I'm glad you're a fan of the skill! I don't often come up with new rules, and I'm pleased that one of my practicle ones has garnered favor.

Todd has failed his Discipline check. Lucky for me, I'm using a desktop. *whistles innocently*

See, now this is a perfect example of the "Catchall" part of the skill. And now Todd has to make a Dexterity check.

Again, appreciate the input and support. If possible, please try it in your home games and see how it works for you. Post the results here, and maybe we can even get a dev comment.

Who owns the content of the previously printed Dungeon and Dragon magazines? Are all the gameplay mechanics introduced therein owned by Wizards? Does Paizo retain any rights to content as publisher/ editorial staff?

I'm looking for places to mine content that has a chance of becoming officially parts of pathfinder, and seeing how they can adapt ahead of time. Dragon and Dungeon magazines were a treasure trove of wonderful ways to make and break the game. I'm hoping that some of that content can enter in to the core book rather than wallow in back issues.

Has this been addressed yet? Does anybody know?

There's multiclassing penalties in Pathfinder? I saw nothing in the Alpha 3 ruleset.

I don't know if I missed something or not. The only reference to anything related to the previous multiclassing issue is the new take on preffered classes is the bonus hit point per level. In fact, there are references above about how XP penalties were "The old way of doing things."

So, are there still XP penalties in the game? Or have those (finally and thankfully) gone away?

There is allready a fix in place with regards to prestige classes: GM discression. Anything and everything relating to prestige classes is at the call of the GM, including the allowance for dipping, et cetera.

Honestly, jumping through tons of base classes is just as dangerous as prestige dipping. Think along the lines of a Human Fighter 1/ Barbarian 1/ Cleric 1: You're looking at a +2 BAB, a +6 base fort save, self healing, self buffing, enraging, AoE healing monster, with Practiced Spellcaster as his third level feat. Class dipping in general can create massive headaches, not just Prestige dipping.

The solution? GM intervention. "No, you CAN'T take seven different base classes, and no you can't take eight prestige classes."

There's no need to make an express rule for this. If you are a player, and not a GM, then talk to your GM about it. Tell him you are concerned with the power level of your companion. Blue lightning bolts have the tendancy to solve LOTS of player issue.

Thanks for all the positive feedback!

If one is going to abandon Spellcraft, I see no reason that one couldn't roll defensive casting in to this skill as well. Otherwise, we still have that as an option.

I tried to keep the impact on CMB as balanced as possible. With it being purely defensive now, and affecting the DC, I thought it more thematically appropriate, and less easy to abuse.

Anyways, game session tomorrow night, so I'll get to do some more playtesting.

There's no religioncraft because divine magic is still magic.

I'm torn on the whole Xcraft versus knowledge. They are meant foremost as a means of identifying enemy spells being cast. How many people use that I don't know. My players generally wait until the spell resolves to figure it out from there, but I may start promoting it more with casting descriptions. There's a few reasons I see to keep them seperate from Knowledge Arcana:
One - Clerics and Druids don't have Knowledge: Arcana. Adding it to their class list for the sole purpse of identifying spells would be a waste of points, and not make a lot of sense. The skill is specifically arcana. As such, divine anything doesn't fall under that.

Two - Spellcraft is a generic term, a catchall for magical effects. Tossing Concentration in to it makes it more of a "practiced with magic" sort of spell. By dealing with magic and leveling in a magic using class, you know more about magic effects. The knowledge skills aren't meant to pertain to spells themselves. They are there for lore, a little history regarding that topic, and checks along those lines. Psicraft works along the same lines: identifying manifestations, and now, being able to control them in combat.

Three - Spellcraft is a prerquisite for a good number of prestige classes. And a some of those require both Knowledge and Spellcraft, be it arcana, religion, psionics, et cetera.

I do think the game needs some form of Concentration (which is why I made my offering in the New Rules board), but I don't think there's a need to eliminate the Xcraft abilities.

So, after some playtesting, here's what I got for what works:

CMB: the DC increase, though a little bit tougher to track mentally ended up working far better, and with far less game breaking than adding to CMB. I strongly suggest using it soley for defensive purposes, since offensively, it ended up breaking the game, and some rather underhanded tricks by a wizard showed why.
-For every 5 ranks you posess in Discipline, the DC to perform a Combat Maneuver against you increases by 1.

Intimidate: This mechanic actually playtested well. My group liked backing up the mechanic with role play, especially on each other. Though this might not be used often, I can see it being a fun addition, that certain kinds of players would enjoy.

-You may make a Discipline Check to oppose an Intimidate (demoralize) check. If you beat the Intimidate score, you are not demoralized. If you beat it by five or more, the opponent must make a check himself to resist being demoralized, using either his own discipline or a level check. This check cannot result in another demoralization. No spending the entire fight calling each other names.

Defensive Skilling: This took a little getting used to, since most people don't try to use many skills in combat. However, we found some instances where it paid off. A more entertaining one (and as a GM, I should be shot for allowing this), was when a player used Craft: Weapon defensively in combat to make a club. He argued that a zero cost meant the total crafting time was zero. I said that if he made both the discipline check and the craft check, I'd let it fly. So, he was able to snap off a chair leg in a way that made it a good club.

-Discipline allows you to use a skill defensively. First, make a discipline check against the DC of the skill check you wish to use, and if successful, your next use of that skill does not provoke an attack of opportunity. If the check fails, you are subject to attacks of opportunity as normal.

Continual Concentration Catch All: With some player input, we devised some situtations where this came in to good use. Particularly, a character had to remain completely silent while held in the town stocks. If he made any sound in response to the jeering crowds, he'd be punished further. A successful roll resulted in some respect from the city guard, and his release.

-A catch all skill for anything requiring continual concentration. Ranging from dealing with hecklers during a performance, or as a means of solving a particularly tedious task.

There's more or less my tested and functional version of the skill. The concerns over spellcasting, I choose not to address, because I think it wise to roll them in to spellcraft. As far as Psionics go, Psicraft works just as well for defensive manifesting as well as gaining Psionic Focus.

One of the first things I noticed about the new skill system is the complete elimination of Synergy. While I liked the mechanic under the old system, it's sort of pointless here.

Anyways: Discipline modifying CMB seems to be the sort of sticking point. I'm thinking that going with a bonus every 5 ranks instead of every 4 may help this a bit. This results in only a +4 bonus at level 20, spreads out when you get the benefit, and 5 tends to be a better number when relating to skills than 4 (see previous skill rules Synergy). This is one of the aspects I really do want to keep a part of the mechanic, but perhaps the way it modifies could be changed. Instead of boosting the CMB, have it increase the DC the opponant requires. At level 20, with max ranks, that would mean your foe has a DC 19 + CMB to overcome, instead of DC + 15. This makes the skill defensive in nature, which I guess makes it less game breaking and feel less like a "Need this" skill.

when I saw the title of this thread I imagined Seoni in black leather with whips. Was a bit disappointed I was wrong :(

Well, I am looking for more uses for the skill. Got some tweaking to do. Heh. Tweaking.

Oh, and to be fair to each type of caster, one could even say that the stat modifier for the Spellcraft skill is dependent upon the stat that is being used to cast the spell. If you're casting a wizard spell, it's INT, cleric spell it's WIS, Sorcerer spell it's CHA, etc. That takes care of multiclassers, too. The Sorc/Cleric has a different Spellcraft for his Sorc spells than for his Cleric spells, for instance. That way nobody is disadvantaged, and it actually relates back to your existing class abilities and strengths.

While functional, I'd call attention to the need to keep track of all that. The idea behind skills, in general, is that they are all definite in their requirements and bonuses. When you have a variable ability score, people get bogged down. I agree with you that it makes sense to have it variable, but there's always going to be people who will mix it up, and I see that becoming more prevalent with multiclassers.

My intention with the skill was to avoid the need for a large number of penalties for tracking. Instead of defining a limitless number of distractions, I thought it simpler to just use one skill check for all of them. I don't wish to besmirch the idea, since that's very similar to how Concentration worked before, and it got the job done, but I wanted to simply tidy everything up at once.

I'm unclear on how you mean "simulationy". I'm honestly not familiar enough with GURPS other than the acronym and the need for D6s to get the similie. I thought all skills were meant to be in some respects a simulation. Knowledge skills are how well versed you are in those areas of study, Sliegh of Hand is how deft you are with quick movements, and Swim is how good a swimmer you are. They are all fairly broad in their scopes (You don't specifically study the history of a particular Kobold tribe, you aren't just good at picking pockets, and you're assumed to be equally proficient at breast stroke as freestyle), which is what I was trying to accomplish here: Simulate a trait that reprisents a characters dedication to general self control, both physically and mentally.

If possible, please try this mechanic out. I'm enjoying the input, and it's giving me ideas as to where to rebalance or alter the skill. Heh, here's hoping Jason takes a look at this one. I'd love to get the input of a professional.

I wanted to start out as broad as possible and weed it down from there. The input is appreciated.

Regarding the CMB, part of my intention there was to help classes with low BAB stand a slightly better chance of not getting thrashed by classes with a high CMB. It's not much, but every bit helps. In tandem with that was some love for multiclass characters. In order to make up for some of the lost CMB when going to a lower BAB class.
My other reasoning for this was heavily influenced by Rogues and Monks. While building a rogue I noticed that they were somewhat sorely lacking in the CMB department, though they can still dish out pain like no other. Monks are the never ending source of controvercy. The current complaint is that they are lacking the +hit progression in the end game. This was meant as a means to address that issue, specifically with the Improved Trip that monks get as a bonus anyways. It's not a direct +hit, but it does have the potential to be helpful. Would adjusting the total bonus downward help? Does stacking this with the monk ability give monks too much power? Going to (hopefully) test a lot of this out tonight.

I can't argue at all with your second point. I probably should have included that as more of a suggested use than a stated use. I maintain that it's good for that, but I think you are right that addressing it directly is a mistake. Perhaps as a notation to GMs, it might make more sense. But yeah, you're spot on that one.

*edit* As an addendum, would this be fair as a replacement for a Fortitude Save against Massive Damage? Conceptually, it becomes a sort of mind of matter situation, but is still Con dependant.

*further edit* Another reason I wanted to put this together is to address the (few, but significant) Prestige Classes that require Concentration as a prerequisite. I would suggest that this, at the bare minimum thematically, would fit the Kensai prestige class. That one seems to be sort of popular. Also, Force Missile Mage.

As an addendum to the above, some of the aspects of Autohypnosis could be included as well.

-Ignore Caltrop Wound (DC 18 to ignore the movement penalty)
-Tolerate Poison (DC = Poison Save DC to delay the effect of the poison or 1 round. Usable once against a given affliction.)
-Resist Dying (DC 20 Discipline Check to stabilize)

More stuff for me to try out. Looks like I'm going to have to take bigger steps towards kill my party. Hooray!

There's a sizable argument going on about the removal of the Concentration skill. Based on the skill in Neverwinter Nights, I wanted to encompass some of what Concentration did before, in addition to adding all new benefits based on the PfRPG mechanics. I'm going to be doing some playtesting tomorrow to see how this pans out, and I hope others may take the time to give it a shot, and add suggestions as per what to add, modify, remove, et cetera. I copy/pasted this directly from the previous thread, and amended a bit. Ripping oneself off rocks!

Discipline (Con)
Discipline is a measure of how much self control you have, and your ability to maintain yourself in stressful situations.

-Every 4 ranks grants a +1 bonus to your Combat Maneuver Bonus when used in conjunction with any combat maneuver, either offensively or defensively.

-Discipline allows you to use a skill defensively. First, make a discipline check against the DC of the skill check you wish to use, and if successful, your next use of that skill does not provoke an attack of opportunity.

-A catch all skill for anything requiring continual concentration. Ranging from dealing with hecklers during a performance, or as a means of solving a particularly tedious Geas. Example: A monk violates his Lawful alignment in a way that causes him to lose his ability to advance until he atones. Because he is part of an order that focuses on pacience, he is tasked with counting every stone in a section of wall. He makes a Discipline check each day against the set DC. A failure means he is still unfocused, and needs to keep trying. A success means that he is back on the right path, and may continue his advancemt.

-A catch all skill to resist general dirty tricks played in combat. Dirt in your eye, kick to the shin. A disciplined character has a better chanceof avoiding these effects. They may substitute a Discipline Check instead of what would otherwise be the saving throw used. Cannot be used in this way to avoid magical effect, traps, et cetera. GM discretion is heavily encouraged on this usage.

-You may make a Discipline Check to oppose an Intimidate (demoralize) check. If you beat the Intimidate score, you are not demoralized. If you beat it by five or more, the opponent must make a check himself to resist being demoralized, using either his own discipline or a level check. This check cannot result in another demoralization. No spending the entire fight calling each other names.

Futher uses could include allowing a discipline check to maintain Focus On Target abilities (see Assassin prestige class and Raptor School tactical feat) while moving. Additionally, Discipline could grant a bonus to Diplomacy checks in hostile situations. Discipline could also be used to help a character overcome an adverse mental condition, such as an ingrained fear or an addiction.

I think it's wise to maintain Constitution as the tied ability score for a couple reasons. It allows for a skill to actually depend upon the ability score, making it that much more valuable to keep high. It also feeds on the concept of Constitution being a characters toughness. It's conceptually more appropriate for someone to be hearty and stoic than for somebody to be a weedy sickly thing, and be particularly disciplined. The skill is meant to emphasize a personal commitment to staying in control of oneself, and to not go flying off the handle. That's not to say Barbarians can't be disciplined, they just know when to take the handle, and to swing it in to somebody's face at the appropriate time.

In the case of Psionics, why not just roll that in to Psicraft? Would you rolls Psicraft in to Knowledge: Psionics as well? I guess you could...

Let us not forget they are also Constructs as a race. It goes beyond simple listed immunities that are an amendment to the Contruct Type traits. They are also immune to things like Hold Person, Charm Person, et cetera. If you need to keep a player in check, just hit him on everything they CAN'T do well. Common is their only listed available language. Sucks to be him when the only guy around with repair damage spells only speaks Dwarven and Gnoll.

Anyways, didn't mean to start a thread that was innapropriate to the board. However, I think conversions of old material, though not able to be supported by Paizo, will be a major endeavor after PfRPG is released. I'm planning ahead now, and playtesting a couple eberron races, one slightly more maligned than the other. I've also got a couple players working with 3.0 monster manual races, such as Aasimar and Tieflings. They seem to be almost on par with the new standard races, though removing their +2 racial bonus to all saves ended up necessary. Balances well at a +1 to all saves.

What is considered to be OGL content? The three Core books? Is there a list? I'm not sure where to start looking for this, so if somebody could point me in the right direction, I'd like to playtest that stuff with the new rules the most, since that's where we'll be most concerned with the lead in to the Beta release.

Thread is a bit old, but I figured I'd jump in a bit.

Summary for those who just check the end:

Monks need help: better to hit and better definition of roll in party.

Solutions presented:
-Increase BAB (declared not going to happen)
-Enchant Fists
-Enchanted Handwraps
-Suck it up and use weapons for +bonuses and enhancements
-Vastly expand the monk weapon list, to include more of the rather sweet toys we see in Kung Fu movies and museums.
-Replace monk weapon damage with monk unarmed damage while using monk weapons, and benefit from +bonuses and enhancements that way.

The most interest was shown in the last suggestion buy the very nice man who's making what's been a very nice game for the teeming lot of us.

Some things pointed out: Monks' unarmed strike counts as a natural and manufactured weapon, and can benefit from any spell or effect that would effect either of those. Does this mean monk fists can be enchanted?

Monks have 3 ability scores upon which they need to focus. This is a pain in the butt. What can we do about this?

There's a feat in the Book of Really Freaking Powerful Good Guys that No GM Lets Anybody Use that allows characters to use Wis on attack rolls.

Things I've run in to:
Drunken Master Prestige Class - Improvised Weapons. The drunken master ADDS the improvised weapons to his unarmed damage. By level 10 that's an additional +d12 damage. That's sort of huge. Granted, they aren't masterwork (Unless, I guess, you snap the leg off a really nice chair), but they are a sizable boost. Anyways, I don't see a reason why monk weapons can't simply add to monk unarmed attack/ damage. Enchant the weapon, add it all up, and claim your prize. Yes, this is more powerful than simply replacing damage, but so be it. The trade off is still the need to balance 3 ability scores and suffer a sub par AC. As far as monks that still want to go with feet and fists, gloves, handwraps, and brass knuckles would probably suffice.

I didn't see if anybody had mentioned the classic Ring of Shocking Blows from the now very defunct, but still very fun Sword and Fist book. It's costly, but the benefit is pretty huge.

There are bonuses to attacks OTHER than enhancement bonuses. There's Luck Bonuses, Insight Bonuses, Profane and Devine bonuses. The DMG has a catch all for these called "other". If you are really hard up for extra oomph, buy some Lucky Handwraps. +1 Luck and +1 damage roll. Would cost around 5000gp, since they take up a body slot (gloves).

A normal feat that allows Wisdom to attack has potential. And it doesn't just scream Monk. Druids and Clerics would reap some nice benefit from something like that as well. Somebody playtest this, and see if it makes Clerics the be all end all class.

Expending Ki points to add +d6 elemental damage to the monks attacks could help offset the lower attack by adding more damage upon hits. Lasts for a number of rounds equal to 3 plus Wisdom modifier? Be able to launch the energy as a touch attack that deals damage equal to the monks unarmed damage + the d6 of elemental damage, all of it in the elemental type. This would end the duration as well. Hadoken!

Potions go a long way towards helping a monk. A more extensive list of potions in the beta could be very helpful. Magic Fang, Magic Weapon, Flaming Fists, Freezing Fists(?)

Creativity on the part of the players and GM is helpful, too. Please allow for a long and terrible segue:
I'm running a campaign now with a gnome artificer. Everybody is level 3, and his theme is grenade-like weapons. The problem is, after about level 3, there aren't any good grenadelike weapons. Alchemist fire sort of stops being useful pretty quick. He was rather frustrated, because he'd invested the money and feat in to a Gnome Calculus (Arms & Equipment Guide, 4th core book, kids!), for some long range bottle hurling.
He was getting to the point that not only was the alchemist fire not worth the cost of making or purchasing, the time investment wasn't either, with the limitations on the craft skill. Our solution? Craft Wonderous Item. A potion is a single use, use activated item. That's not just for making potions, that for anything that mechanically functions that way. So, we discovered that it was far more functional for him to emulate Fireball and put it in to a bottle. This is somewhat more costly, but, he wasn't tossing 1d6 fire damage on 1 square. He was tossing 3d6 damage on a LOT of squares.
Anyways, creativity with items can solve a lot of problems. If you really really want that mage out of the sky, and to be easy pickings, ready and Anti-magic Grenade to toss at him. Or, if you want something cheap, Blindness Bombs. Monks are spending a lot less money on gear than other classes. This gives them more to spend on consumable items. Use that money! Hoarding gold is the surest way for a GM to screw you out of it. On the other hand, you are less likely to lose your stuff if you have a bandolier of magical explosives across your chest. Hmm. I might have to make this guy... Was this done in a movie yet? A Grenade Monk? Hmm. Might have to make a script, too.

Vast and sweeping changes to the class aren't necessary. There's been a lot of good ideas presented, stuff that could build whole new classes. But, you can only devote so many pages to a single class. Monks have scads of abilites as it stands. Adding too much more to compensate for something just bogs down play. There's a reason nobody bothered with Graple before. Don't want the monk to be a "Ah screw it, too man rules" class. We can't ask the design team to give us a class that takes 20 pages to explain everything they do. I like the monk. I think it needs a little love, but just a little. I've been trashed by too many of them in the past to think they are particularly underpowered.

As far as Create Water goes, even if you create the downpour effect, it doesn't override the fact that you still need to have an area declared for it to go. You can't simply say "There's water up there." In the case of the goblin, the water comes down as a small downpour. Droplets spread out over an area. The goblin may be curious as to why it suddenly rained for a few seconds, but it's not going to knock him down.

Also, did the math 'cause I have no life.

If a 5th level wizard working to fill an olympic sized swimming pool:
2.5 million liters of water ~ 657900 gallons of water.
The Wizard can create 10 gallons of water per round.
Which would require 65790 rounds.
Which would be 6579 minutes.
Which would be ~110 hours.
Which would be a little over 4 and a half DAYS of literally non stop water making.

Alternatively, one could depower detect magic a bit. Instead of a spell that is basically thermal vision for magic aruas, why not require it to be used with close examination? Or, have it start as a general sensation of direction, and with increased focus (Perception check?), the magical auras become more detectable.

Here's another example of balancing Detect Magic:

The players enter a room. There's a finely crafted sword mounted on the wall. It's a magical weapon. It's also the bait in a nonmagical pit trap. Sure, the sword registers as easy pickings magic item, but the switch on the mount it's attatched to doesn't. In that case, player greed and caution still determine if the trap goes off or not. Detect magic might even make them more likely to fall for it.

Warforged are the first race I've ever seen without a level adjustment that GMs will flat out refuse to allow in to their games. Personally, I love the metal guys. However, with the increase in over all racial power, do they deserve a little more love? Or are they good enough as is? How do they work with the revamped classes? This is what I'm out to discuss.

With the new racial ability adjustments, I think that, despite their powers as living constructs, warforged score penalties are a little unbalanced compared to the other races. I think that removing the Wisdom penalty would fix this rather nicely. Wisdom is, arguably, a more important score than charisma, but just about every casting class uses charisma in some way now, so it's still a good hit to balance against the constitution bonus. As far as removing the wisdom penalty goes, this allows warforged clerics and druids to be, well, viable. And, for melee classes, it helps improve their will saves a bit. Since they are by nature constructs, but don't have the mind affecting immunity, it's sort more fair for them to NOT have the wisdom penalty.

Barbarian: With the changes to rage, Warforged previous Tireless Rage at level 0 is no longer anywhere near as awesome as it was before. This is actually an excellent fix on the race/ class combination that I think was somewhat inadvertant.

Bard: Nothing particularly good or bad here. If warforged keep the charisma penalty, they are less effective bards. Though, with bards being more melee capable now, this is something that could be fun to see. A character who plays his metal abs? Washboard stomache taken too far?

Cleric: Divine Conduits are always nice to have around. Especially now that the cleric isn't the walking pile of cure spells any more. Clerics have always had a lot of potential in melee, and now they have the potential to main tank for the party. Removing the wisdom penalty ensures that the warforged cleric can still cast some of those later game useful spells. Like Ressurection. Sort of handy to have, is all I'm saying.

Fighter: My question here is if Warforged should benefit from the Armor Training. I say that they should, as long as they are utilizing feated armor. Either Mithril Body, Ironwood Body, or Admantite Body. Composite Plating imposes no max dex bonus or armor check penalty. As such, it's the characters skin. You don't get better at being you. The feat armors are more armorlike (carapace, maybe?), and as such, deserve to benefit from the class ability. As it stands, Mithril Body is still technically worse from the getgo than a Mithril shirt (5 armor/ 5 max dex -2 check penalty (effectively) vs 4 armor/ 6 max dex no check penalty), and Admantite Body is strictly worse than a full plate, since it CAN'T be made if any special materials. I view it as the warforged getting increasingly used to moving about in his armored body. And, don't forget, warfored CAN'T improve their base armor outside of enancement bonuses. Also, Fighter is their favored class. Let's show some favoritism.

Monk: Warforged monks are comedy gold. Officially, in 3.5, warforged composite plating AC stacks with the monk bonuses. Never saw that as game breaking, and see it as less hugetacular now. Still good, but with some of the perks of other races, eh, not the best thing in the whole world.

Paladin: I think the Warforged Paladin Substitution Levels from Races of Eberron fixed this issue pretty good. Not enough sweeping paladin changes to make this one much of an issue with that material around.

Rangers: With the changes to the ranger that make it a class people might actually want to play, a Warforged Ranger would be a fun character. A literally tireless tracker, built to hunt down particular foes. Conceptually, it's pretty cool. He doesn't get quite as much usage out of Survial as other races (hooray for not eating!), but the race class combination is just sort of cool now.

Rogue: Charisma penalty tends to keep warforged rogues in the front lines, or in deep cover. Less diplomacy, more stabby here. At most, they'd take Mithril Body, if they really were hard up to stand next to the fighter, but the check penalty might put that off a bit. Combat race, combat class, good match.

Sorcerer: This one's a little strange. With the Cha penalty, this isn't overly appealing, but some of the bloodlines could make for a very neat character. As a GM, I'd rule carefully which ones a warforged could take. Abyssal, Arcane, Celestial, Destined, Elemental, and Infernal all make some sense. Short answer: parts used to create the warfored are from those planes, or in the case of Destined, he's just meant to be a hero. The ones that don't really fly (Abberant, Draconic, Fey, and Undead), really require a character to be descended from something. Eww. Grandpappy was a zombie. Built in spell failure still hurts. Thank goodness for Combat feats.

Wizard: Probably the better Arcane option for Warforged. Play off the thinking machine aspect for EZRP. With the improved Hit Die, the nifty class features, and the fact that ANYBODY can be a wizard, this is a nice match. The Arcane Bond over the Familiar would be a great path to follow as well. The magical pet would be less appealing for a race that is inherently somewhat of loners. I can see a warfored relating to his things more than to a magical critter.

I'm sort of confused about the whole idea that a sword and board character should do as much damage as a twohander or a dual wielder. Why should they? A bigger weapon, or more weapons gives you better offensive capability, period.

We may like the idea of the valient protector dishing out the pain with the best of them, but it doesn't really work that way. Sword and board is there to take damage (Well, to NOT take damage if you stack AC correctly). I'd go so far to say that worrying too much about damage is detrimental to the character. What's the best weapon to carry as a tank? A bastard sword, so you can maximize damage while still carrying a shield? A short sword in case you get swallowed whole? Either is a valid consideration, but neither lets you do the damage of the guy with the greatsword behind you.

I'd suggest going with shield bashes if you want to improved your damage as a tank character. A spiked light shield does 1d4 damage, and counts as a light weapon for off hand penalties. Considering the number of feats a fighter gets now, this would be one hell of a build:

Human Fighter
Longsword and Light Spiked Shield
Lvl 1 - Two Weapon Fighting, Deft Shield, Weapon Focus (Longsword)
Lvl 2 - Double Weapon Slice
Lvl 3 - Dodge
Lvl 4 - Weapon Specialization (Longsword)

With this set up, the Double Slice would go to the Light Shield, so that you have a better chance of hitting AND retaining your shield bonus to AC. The Longsword gets the weapon focus to make up for the penalty it takes for two weapon fighting.

This makes for not only an effective tank, but also a cinematic character. Smash, slice, advance, hoo hah!

Amulet of mighty fists can give you that, and still lets you use Stunning Fist, which is often better than flaming, etc. weapons (even considering its limited uses/day).

Carry both!

Stunning Fist is a fantastice ability. Especially if you want to be the magekiller monk.

However, I still maintain that armed monks are a good idea. There's always ways to make things better, but removing monk weapons I don't think is one of them. Part of it is also a style preference. I have a player right now who loves her quarterstaff. I'm not going to tell her she's wrong for using it when her unarmed in a couple levels will do more die damage, especially since gearing correctly can get her as much, if not more damage. One thing I did for each of my players was to give them augment crystals. For the monk, I ruled that if she bought brass knuckles and attatched the augment to that, she could benefit from elemental damage that way while unarmed, and since they augments can be moved around, it can be placed on whatever weapon she wants to use.

The big problem with comparing raw dice damage from weapons (be they manufatured or natural), it pales compared to bonus damage. Rogue sneak attack damage FAR outclasses the damage of whatever weapons they carry by just die roll. Even magic'd up, sneak attack damage is a ludicrous boost in comparison. Fighters do it with a wonderful array of feats and combat tricks. And, of course, Weapon Specialization and now Weapon Training and Weapon Mastery.

Monks make up for this by getting 5 iterative attacks, 3 of which are at max attack bonus. Let's be honest, anything after the second attack from any other melee class is generally worthless unless you get a natural 20 to hit. Monks get THREE shots like that. With or without weapons, that's fantastic.

Basically, I like monk weapons. They add flavor to a character, and really aren't any worse than unarmed attacks. If you want to rule that certain weapons, due to their table values are the same thing, go for it! My biggest love of RPGs are the options. Why take something away from a player? Give them a choice. Modify it to fit your game.

I tend to disagree with the assessment that monk weapons are inherently inferior damage. The most crucial aspect to remember is that a weapon can have an enhancment bonus. That's not just a +damage deal. It's +hit, too.

Look at it this way: You have a 5th level human monk. Strenght score is 16. Unarmed damage is a D8. He also carries a +1 Shocking Quarterstaff.

When you make an unarmed attack your roll is this:

D20 + 3 (Base Attack Bonus) + 3 (Strength) - 1 (Flurry) = Total Attack

And your damage is:

D8+3 (Strength)~ 7 damage average

Now, instead, he busts out his quarterstaff:
D20 + 3 (Base)+ 3 (Strenght) + 1 (Enhancement) - 1 (Flurry) = Total Attack

He has a better chance of hitting. And for damage, he's doing:
D6 + 3 (Strength) + 1 (Enhancement) + 3 (Electricity) ~ 10 damage average

So, you are doing more average damage, but hitting more often.

Let's loot at it at level 20, figuring the same 16 strength score.

D20 + 15 (Base) + 3 (Str) = Total Attack

2D10 + 3 (Strength)~ 14 damage

Versus:

D20 + 15 (Base) + 3 (Str) + 4 (Enhancement)= Total Attack

D6 + 3 (STR) + 4 (Enhancement) + 3 (Electricity) ~ 13 damage.

And that's with a pretty crappy 20th level weapon. It's important to remeber that no matter how much damage potential you have, it's meaningless if you can't hit the broad side of a barn. Wrecking balls are used on stationary buildings, not on the battlefield.
Now, this is not meant to advocate a full attack progression for monks. That would make them silly over powered. With their saves and other nutty special abilities, they have an excellent role in the party: utterly destroy anything with a low to mid AC.

Weapons are also important, as stated above, for dealing with damage reduction, and things that hurt to touch directly. As far as the inferiority and redundancy of monk weapons some item folding would be nice. However, a couple do have added benefits. Better would be to expand the list to include weapons from other martial arts styles, or to simply add weapons that would make sense. The Khopesh and Spike Chain come to mind.

Or, the ultimate solution: Feat it. Martial Arts Training - Chose a weapon with which you are proficient. It's now a special monk weapon for you. This rewards people who are willing to multiclass monks (Woo! No more penalty!), along with certain races' built in proficiencies.

Gnomes have gone through so many different roles throughout gaming history, that they really never had a true niche. Everybdy things of gnomes differently. You have a pile of archetypes, and really, it's a matter of pick and choose as to which one you want to play.

Davidian Gnome: Blue Shirt, pointy hat. Fears trolls. Tend to do a lot of rough and tumbling. Talkative, friendly, and well spoken. Tends to get along well with others.

Warcraftian Gnome (See Also Forgotten Realms Gnomes): Curious, inventive, clever, creative. Tends to get along well with others. Willing to do something dangerous for the sake of progress, and for comedy. Need to be durable for the sake of their experiments.

Fourthedian Gnomes: Feylike creatures. Tricksters. Playful. Tends to get along well with others. They are supernatural creatures, so they tend to be more durable than most.

You can justify anything when it comes to gnomes. -2 Str, +2 Int, +2 Cha would be really nice, but for current balance issue, it looks like one good mental, one good physical, and one appropriate penalty score is the direction being taken. Part of it is a matter of consistancy between races. Another part of it is to avoid making an "Ultimate This" race. Give a gnome +int and +cha, you'll never see any gnome barbarians again.

Honestly, I didn't really see the 3.X halflings as the Hobbit successors. I saw more of that in gnomes. Both races are home and family oriented. Both races are small and friendly. However, halflings are presented as more sly. Additionally, Halflings are always described as sharing Human lands. Gnomes are more isolated, much like the Hobbits of the Shire. And, really, (meganerd alert) Bilbo didn't have a Dex bonus. With all the hits he took, he had a con bonus.

I think it's worth noting that the lack of Int bonus for the race is being looked at like it's a penalty. The implications aren't that gnomes aren't clever. It's that they are more sociable and outgoing than they are book smart. There's no reason you can't have a brilliant gnome. He's simply going to be a likable guy as well.

A gnome is more along the lines, outlikewise, of a human than a halfling. A gnome can be anything. A better con score is good for EVERY class. A good Cha score is good for EVERY class. Technically, that's true of all scores, but it's less limited this way. Also, charisma tends to be a little more useful when dealing with a multiclass character than Intelligence. If that gnome barbarian happens to take a level of Bard, he not only gets his bonus hit point, now he gets to be better when he whips out a wand, before enraging and going shortynuts in combat.

One of the features of the Alpha 3 book I liked the most was the Designer Notes boxes. I would actually like to see some of these, or something like these in the final release of the game.

Insight in to the design process of a game can enhance play experience. Knowing why a certain decision was made, or in may cases, what options were considered can give a better understanding of the game, and grant new ways to look at different abilities and rules.

My favorite part about the designer notes are the ones that list different options for a given mechanic, and the request to try them out, and see which works best. Why only pick one to be in the book? If different ways create a different feel to the game, but don't drastically alter mechanics, why not let players and GMs pick the one they want? Starting and level up HP have always been a headache for players and GMs alike. How many campaigns has everyone here been in that started at level 3, because nobody likes being a squishy for the 30ish encounters it takes to get to a hit point total that isn't laughable? Well, we now have 5 different ways of generating starting hit points. Each of them plays to a differnt feel in a campaign. I like the racial HP bonus, because I think it's flavorfull. A munchkin in my group like the Constitution method, because he gets to be a small tank at level 1.

The skill revision notes give an excellent insight in to what has been an ongoing issue with the game system. This is good example where a descision had to be made, because so much relies on skills. The justification for the choice, and the adaption for prestige classes offered are also a great help to players and GMs converting their campaigns or using non Pathfinder source material. Using the Designer Note within the rules themselves places these things in a nice sidebar for quick reference, and has some insight attatched to it.

I'd like to see some of the designer notes left in the finished product. They wouldn't need to be labled as such; call them something like Worldbuilder Notes. Whatever. The important thing is they are a good way to include clarifications, adaptions, examples, insight, and general information that wouldn't fit in with the normal flow of the book.

One of the things I noticed most about Pathfinder is a wonderful abundance of options. Choose this or that. Try this. When it comes to starting HP, people play all sorts of different ways, depending upon the type of campaign they are running. If in doubt, give them the options. Leave all the starting HP systems in the book, and give a description and basis for each one:

Standard Starting: HP for a normal campaign. Used when you want a traditional game, where players are durable, but not particularly tougher than everybody else.

Double Starting: Player Characters are heroes in the making. Heroes are known for being tougher than most folk. Early on, they tend to be twice as tough.

Racial: Some folks are more durable than others because of what they are. If your campaign emphasizes race fairly heavily, and you want to make real distinctions beyond just class abilities, this system makes that very meaningful.

Flat: This system saves time. Useful for short adventures where players want to get rolling instead of mucking about with lots of dice rolls or random factors.

Constitution: Makes an ability score even more meaningful. Generally, this would be even better than doubling hp. This is an option for players who want to be legendary from the getgo.

Presenting these options allows for players and GMs to work together to define the attitude of the campaign, or for the GM to do it himself. Every choice made influences the feel of the campaign, and the more options available to do this, the happier the group, and more enjoyable the game.

Laithoron suggested using the word "Discipline" instead of the word "Concentration". This skill has previously existed, and been put to good use with the 3.X rules set. In Neverwinter Nights, Disciple was a skill that effected your chance of being knocked prone (effectively a bull rush in game terms), along with protecting against being disarmed. I can see this being implimented to include defensive skill use as Mr. Davis above me posted.
Allow me to expand:

Discipline (Con)
Discipline is a measure of how much self control you have, and your ability to maintain yourself in stressful situations.

-Every 4 ranks grants a +1 bonus to your Combat Maneuver Bonus when used in conjunction with any combat maneuver, either offensively or defensively.

-Discipline allows you to use a skill defensively. First, make a discipline check against the DC of the skill check you wish to use, and if successful, your next use of that skill does not provoke an attack of opportunity.

-A catch all skill for anything requiring continual concentration. Ranging from dealing with hecklers during a performance, or as a means of solving a particularly tedious Geas. Example: A monk violates his Lawful alignment in a way that causes him to lose his ability to advance until he atones. Because he is part of an order that focuses on pacience, he is tasked with counting every stone in a section of wall. He makes a Discipline check each day against the set DC. A failure means he is still unfocused, and needs to keep trying. A success means that he is back on the right path, and may continue his advancemt.

-A catch all skill to resist general dirty tricks played in combat. Dirt in your eye, kick to the shin. A disciplined character has a better chanceof avoiding these effects. They may substitute a Discipline Check instead of what would otherwise be the saving throw used.

-You may make a Discipline Check to oppose an Intimidate check. If you beat the Intimidate score, you are not demoralized. If you beat it by five or more, the opponent must make a check himself to resist being demoralized, using either his own discipline or a level check. This check cannot result in another demoralization. No spending the entire fight calling each other names.

Futher uses could include allowing a discipline check to maintain Focus On Target abilities (see Assassin prestige class and Raptor School tactical feat) while moving. Additionally, Discipline could grant a bonus to Diplomacy checks in hostile situations. Discipline could also be used to help a character overcome an adverse mental condition, such as an ingrained fear or an addiction.

I think it's wise to maintain Constitution as the tied ability score for a couple reasons. It allows for a skill to actually depend upon the ability score, making it that much more valuable to keep high. It also feeds on the concept of Constitution being a characters toughness. It's conceptually more appropriate for someone to be hearty and stoic than for somebody to be a weedy sickly thing, and be particularly disciplined. The skill is meant to emphasize a personal commitment to staying in control of oneself, and to not go flying off the handle. That's not to say Barbarians can't be disciplined, they just know when to take the handle, and to swing it in to somebody's face at the appropriate time.