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How does the Dragon Disciple stack when you factor in a Cross-Blooded Bloodrager? I plan to take the lv 4 and lv 8 ability of Arcane Bloodline but otherwise Dragon Bloodline powers. Please note FAQ states Bloodrager bloodlines do count for purposes of Dragon Disciple prestige class. The Dragon Disciple ability Blood of Dragons: A dragon disciple adds his level to his *Bloodrager levels when determining the powers gained from his bloodline. If the dragon disciple does not have levels of *Bloodrager, he instead gains bloodline powers of the draconic bloodline, using his dragon disciple level as his *Bloodrager level to determine the bonuses gained. He must choose a dragon type upon gaining his first level in this class and that type must be the same as his *Bloodrager type. This ability does not grant bonus spells to a Bloodrager unless he possesses spell slots of an appropriate level. Such bonus spells are automatically granted if the *Bloodrager gains spell slots of the spell’s level. How does that work with my Arcane Bloodline levels? As written it seems it increases both as the increase wording does not specify Draconic. Also at 3rd level Dragon Disciple I gain Breath Weapon: At 3rd level, a dragon disciple gains the breath weapon bloodline power, even if his level does not yet grant that power. Once his level is high enough to grant this ability through the bloodline, the dragon disciple gains an additional use of his breath weapon each day. The type and shape of the breath weapon depends on the type of dragon selected by the dragon disciple, as detailed under the Draconic sorcerer bloodline description. As I swapped out my Breath Weapon Bloodline power how does that work? Do I still gain the Dragon Disciple breath weapon? Do I gain an additional use when I am at the level I would have gotten the Bloodrager breath weapon? I want to make a Society character so need the most "Official" interpretation possible. I know in a home game it would be as easy as asking the GM.
So first I know in Pathfinder the general rule is you always round down. 5/2=2.5 or 2. Life Link absorbs damage in 5 damage intervals. Shield Other by my understanding distributes half of that to another party member if it is in effect. So...how does 5 get divided between two players? Do both take 2 and 1 fall of due to rounding? Does one take 2 and the other 3? Who take the 3? Any help would be appreciated.
@Kyaaadaa By your same logic you are saying Witches and Shaman may not qualify for some familiar enhancement feats and Oracle/Paladin do not qualify for any Channeling feats. Like I said I originally thought the answer was "no" per the first responses reasoning but looking into the ruling for channeling it seems to be clearly a yes answer. It works for all class abilities or it works for no class abilities you cannot cherry pick rules unless a developer explicitly says there is an exception. As the feat is pretty terrible overall I am not sure why anyone is getting bent out of shape over it. 2 Channels at level -3 is kind of a joke for two feats. Also yes it would be level -3 not level-5 as your effective level for purposes of your familiar has no bearing outside of how powerful your familiar is. Abilities are not scaled based on their prerequisites, they tell you how they are scaled in their wording.
This post leads me to believe that it is actually ok. Though i do understand your reasoning as well. I assumed you were correct originally but found this so thought it was worth posting so other people pulling up this thread will have the full picture in case they have a similar build idea. http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2oej3?Adept-Channel-Adept-Only It points to this post which lead great evidence to it as well. http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ln8z?Can-a-Life-Oracle-with-Channeling-take#29 The quote that summarizes it the best I will post for ease of reading. "Benly
Since the adept's "summon familiar" feature points to the wizard's "arcane bond" feature and uses the same mechanics as the familiar function of arcane bond, it seems consistent with this earlier ruling to say that the two abilities (and any other ability that points to the arcane bond's familiar function and uses the same mechanics) are considered the same feature for purposes of prerequisites, just as the three different channels are."
Hypothetically I have a Druid that through feat selection has the Sorcerer Arcane Bloodline power which grants Arcane Bond as a Wizard. I choose to summon a familliar with it. Am I eventually elligiable for the Adept Channel feat? That feat requires the "Summon Familliar" class feature like is posted on the Adept NPC class. Does Arcane bond fulfill that requirement? Thoughts? Posted from phone so sorry about any errors.
...Destiny's Twin or Twice-Marked of Pharasma... Oh dear god I hope not. Those are the two reasons I would want to donate early to begin with. I am indifferent to early access. I have bought that in 4 or 5 MMO's now and usually it ruins the game for me. Really buggy and not always fun as intended makes future game play pretty sour overall. Destiny's twin on the other hand allows people to have a crafter and a quester at the same time. That is a benefit I would drop money on without hesitation. Hopefully I can find someone at guild level to buy in at. Otherwise the next reward program would have to have something tangible before I consider it. As an aside. Me and many like me would have been more then willing to back the Kickstarter day 1. Just because we did not hear about the Kickstarter when it was up should not be a justifiable reason our investment is worth less. I understand Kickstarter rewards should have unique factors to them however domineering mechanical benefits because you happened to hear about the project first seems a bit unfair.
Ahh this reminds me of a post I made months ago concerning Dual-Wielding Nodachi's on a Barbarian/Ninja/Alchemist build. Good times... The two post's I had on the subject if you want to see what we got was Dual Wielding Nodachi with Obscene number of Attacks and High Strength and WITH THE VESTIGAL ARMS DISCOVERY CAN YOU DUAL WIELD TWO-HANDED WEAPONS? I am not sure how to post links but if you search them you will find quite a bit of info on the subject.
Recently they released a rules update for Pathfinder Society. So for those of you who were planning on using a variant of my build for Society play Vivisectionist is no longer legal. Honestly I agree with the nerf but that is just my opinion. Happy gaming!
I am right there with you Fleshgrinder. The people who call me a powergamer are usually the same people who put no effort into their character at all. Some of my most "twinked" concepts had many typed pages of backstory, many iconic quotes, a unique sense of style, a full hand drawn character sketch and even a unique way of talking. I built them for games I expected to span over years of play. I play in supportive roles and even encourage other players to take the spot light as opposed to just doing everything myself. However because my characters were better in combat "stronger" then the competitive minded players at the table in question, I was labled a power gamer and shunned. Needless to say I have joined many other groups since then and never had a similar problem with any of them. Some people just have dramatically different play styles and you really just have to find out if they match yours. This whole debate is moot as you are not going to convince people what is and is not fun. Trying to tell people to play in a way they do not enjoy is just going to blow up in your face every time. Always remember the Platinum Rule- People are there to play a game and have fun, not argue and bicker. Also it is just a game, if you are not having fun then what is the point of even playing?
Is there any feat or trait (or anything else) that would allow you to be able to take two archetypes at once that would normally not be able to take together (in this case master of many styles and monk of the four winds)? There is a back door entrance into the elemental fist of the monk of the four winds via the Dragon Ferocity feat on page 98 of Ultimate Combat. You can take it as your second feat as a master of many styles after taking Dragon Style itself and then you can take Elemental Fist and it's damage will increase with levels at the same rate as Monk of the four winds. If you wanted the Monk of the Four winds for anything else then I cannot help you out. Hope the information helped. The build i was making was Master of Many Styles, Martial Artist. That takes Dragon Style at lv 1, Dragon Ferocity at lv 2, and Elemental Fist at lv 3. Then I was going to take Efreeti style upon lv up to max out my fire damage potential.
Could you please explain your math. Every time I try to figure out how that ruling turns those multipliers into a x1 I fail miserably. Admittedly math was my worst subject in school. It seems to me basic addition however the rule states each multiple adds 1 less than it's value so it would be 1.5 x -.05 as I see it.Instead, you combine them into a single multiplier, with each extra multiple adding 1 less than its value to the first multiple. For example, if you are asked to apply a ×2 multiplier twice, the result would be ×3, not ×4. Thanks for the explanation! It is so simple I feel stupid for being confused in the first place. lol.
There is a barbarian Archetype that allows for wielding two handers one handed called Titan Mauler. It also reduces penalties for wielding oversized weapons. However you cannot wield an oversized weapon one-handed nor can you use any weapon more then one size larger than yourself. All that said and done is the general consensus that you can in fact wield two two-handed swords with 2 weapon fighting as written. The only nay sayer I saw was DrDeth but I did not see any sort of reasoning behind his answer.
Could you please explain your math. Every time I try to figure out how that ruling turns those multipliers into a x1 I fail miserably. Admittedly math was my worst subject in school. It seems to me basic addition however the rule states each multiple adds 1 less than it's value so it would be 1.5 x -.05 as I see it. Haha well I wrote that wrong. 1.5 multiplied by negative .50 (not .05)
Could you please explain your math. Every time I try to figure out how that ruling turns those multipliers into a x1 I fail miserably. Admittedly math was my worst subject in school. It seems to me basic addition however the rule states each multiple adds 1 less than it's value so it would be 1.5 x -.05 as I see it.
I thought about that but the penaltys would be staggering. Also Power Attack would be less effective. Personally I would rather mix it with Wild Rager (for extra attack) or Invulnerable Rager (for a bit of DR). Besides all things considered you are going to be having players call you a munchkin as is with four arms, do you really want to aggravate them further?
I am under the impression that the discovery forces you to use two-weapon fighting opposed to Multi-Weapon fighting. As for my logic on Two-weapon fighting I read it as these are the penaltys when fighting with two-weapons as opposed to these are your penaltys when fighting with your first two hands. So in other words I have 1 primary hand and 3 off hands. Mechanically all those off hands are still off hands so you would get -4 (without a light weapon) to hit. The restriction however is that without the multi-weapon fighting feat you cannot take attacks with all 4 different weapons without staggering penaltys for your two extra off hands (which you do not have the option of doing anyway as Vestigal Arms states you do not gain any extra attacks). So my way of using the Arms is to help wield two two-handed weapons thereby only using two weapon fighting (because there is two-weapons involved) and instead of attacking with the extra hands I use them to meet the two hand requirement of said two-handed weapons. So Mechanically it works out almost identical to the Titan Mauler ability Jotungrip but with slightly more strength bonus and a little more versatility in what you can wield. I really hope I made sense with all that...lol
So what you are saying is I should get double slice so I do not have to figure out what 0.75 of my strength modifier is all the time? lol
Vestigial Arm (Ex) Benefit: The alchemist gains a new arm (left or right) on his torso. The arm is fully under his control and cannot be concealed except with magic or bulky clothing. The arm does not give the alchemist any extra attacks or actions per round, though the arm can wield a weapon and make attacks as part of the alchemist’s attack routine (using two-weapon fighting). The arm can manipulate or hold items as well as the alchemist’s original arms (for example, allowing the alchemist to use one hand to wield a weapon, another hand to hold a potion, and the third hand to throw a bomb). The arm has its own “hand” and “ring” magic item slots (though the alchemist can still only wear two rings and two hand magic items at a time). Special: An alchemist may take this discovery up to two times Does this discovery (taken twice) give you the ability to Two-Weapon Fight with Two-handed Weapons such as the Great Sword? If so what would be the off hands bonus damage to strength? These are the rules written on this matter that I could find. 1. Off-hand attacks receive only half the character's Strength bonus, while two-handed attacks receive 1–1/2 times the Strength bonus. (Taken from page 16 [Abilities section] of core rules) 2.Two-Handed: Two hands are required to use a two-handed melee weapon effectively. Apply 1-1/2 times the character's Strength bonus to damage rolls for melee attacks with such a weapon. (from page 141 [weapons section] of Core rules) 3.Two-Weapon Fighting (Combat) You can fight with a weapon wielded in each of your hands. You can make one extra attack each round with the secondary weapon. Prerequisite: Dex 15. Benefit: Your penalties on attack rolls for fighting with two weapons are reduced. The penalty for your primary hand lessens by 2 and the one for your off hand lessens by 6. See Two-Weapon Fighting. Normal: If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon. When fighting in this way you suffer a –6 penalty with your regular attack or attacks with your primary hand and a –10 penalty to the attack with your off hand. If your off-hand weapon is light, the penalties are reduced by 2 each. An unarmed strike is always considered light. (from page 136 [Feats section] of Core rules. Additional Two-weapon fighting are rules on page 202 [Combat section] but says the same thing). Please keep things friendly and civil.
Don't take this the wrong way, but do you have a citation for this? I wouldn't have guessed these to be the best sellers.
That gives me a fun idea to mess with the GM a bit. When on the other side of a closed door that you know an enemy is on the other side do a listen check. Then make a lot of noise like you are trying to break the door down but keep it braced shut (need multiple party members). Every round make listen checks and ask if your character hears anything that may be spellcasting. If he says yes then just wait. Keep the door shut, brace it if you have to but just wait. Especially at low levels all the enemies spell durations will expire in under 5 min. Since you heard an enemy cast a spell you know he is in the room therefore no surprise round. May only work on the GM once or twice but it would definately be funny.
Oh I know about the Diplomacy not working against hostile opponents thing. But when you roleplay innocence/coincidence and have not done anything threatning (such as murder his friends in the next room or walk up with a weapon drawn) then I feel a roll is justified. I know it is a game and everything but it always seemed unrealistic to me when things attack you because you are wearing this invisible "adventurer here to kill you" badge.
... First off I strongly disagree with your response Aranna. You are saying that the player in question is trying to be uncooperative when making or playing his character. yet it seems to me that the rest of the group is the one that excluded HIM. No one in any of the posts against the Half-Orc Vampire example does anyone ever reference accepting him and working with the player to make his concept fit the setting and the group. In fact it in all ways is being presented as "we do not like your concept so we do not want to play pathfinder with you.". Does that not seem petty and unjust to anyone other than me? It is like the group has an elite attitude that "we are real roleplayers" and they act as the "roleplaying police" and slander any concepts they do not agree with. People in Power Gaming debates often like to fall back on the "Golden Rule" where the GM has final say on all rulings and game related matters. Which is an important rule as all social games need a judge to quickly settle rules disputes and get focus back on gameplay. However what people constantly seem to ignore is the unwritten "Platinum Rule"- This is a game and people play it with intention that they are going to have fun. These people are dedicating time out of their lives on a long term basis in order to enjoy a recreational delve into a world of fantasy with some friends. I guaruntee that when the player in question was making his character he settled on his concept because he perceived it as a lot of potential fun. Not because he wanted the other players (his friends) to hate him. Not because he attends a secret worldwide power gaming cult regularly where power gamers gather to plot how to ruin roleplaying for everyone. He did it for fun, the same as you, or me, or any other player does when we draw up a character of our own. All the above being said I would like to make one final point. If you are playing your pathfinder games like a miniature war game where all game play is based around battlefield tactics and the roll of a dice, then yes optimized builds will have an advantage in the competitive atmosphere you are playing in. However if you are actually roleplaying, talking in character, developing relationships with side characters, and becoming an over-all living breathing part of the world then there is no issue whatsoever. Look at any heroes in any form of modern media today. Nearly all of them are exceptional individuals that meet hardships that their exceptional skills are poorly tailored to. A cheesy example I know but look at Batman in the movie The Dark Knight. In a straight up fight no one - not entire groups of villians nor the joker himself stand a chance against him. But is the strory boring? No because there are complex relationships that develop, loved ones that need protecting, and suspenseful scenario's where even Batman's impressive abilities may not be enough to come out on top. A roleplaying example would be my heavily optimized (powergaming abomination) Pirate captain Domino I had in a pirate game me and some friends were doing. A giant octopus grabbed another players character off our ship and pulled him under dark unlit water. All the other players just watched and did nothing to save him. My optimized character that had a 6 page back story and took me nearly 3 days to flesh out was the one who jumped in to save him. I had a non-masterwork dagger, no feats or abilities that worked with that dagger, and no water breathing or light source. I risked my character's (evil power gaming abomination's) life to save the player because I felt it was "what Domino would do for a crewmate". Was I power gaming? Yes. was I roleplaying? Yes. They are not mutually exclusive. P.S. Aranna pick up any book from either the Advanced line or the Ultimate line (the best selling Pathfinder books by far). Flip the book over and look at the books own advertisement for the contents of the book. Look for any reference of anything outside of character options. Case and point.
Roleplaying games are the only games I have ever encountered where skilled players are not praised but instead are alienated. It does not matter who you are when you play a game you are going to do it to the best of your ability. I have never heard of a player in any game intentionally doing bad without some serious ulterior motives. It would be like playing a video game and choosing non optimal choices because you want the enemies to do better against you. If you as a GM made a character would you intenionally make poor choices when building it? Or would you use your superior knowledge of the rules and time proven combinations to make a competitive character? Skilled players (Power gamers) like any normal person choose the second choice. The issue that comes in is they are much better at it (for whatever reason) then their peers in the group. They are just playing the game and trying to have fun the same as everyone else. In fact the only reason most Pathfinder supplements sell is because they have feats, archetypes, classes, races, spells, or equipment that people can use to optimize their characters and make them better. Because everyone is at some level trying to power game. How would you feel if after making your character if the other players complained and forced you to make another one? How would you feel if after making a new one to appease them they once again complained until you made a third one? A fourth one? All the while they are playing their first characters not so descretly competeing with each other for who has the most kills or does the most damage. Until you make either what by your own personal standards would be an underpowered and unfun character (which emotionally would be like intentionally losing a game) or you leave the group. All games are going to have people who are good at it and people who are less good at it. Changing the rules or refusing to play with someone because they are good at the game is just childish and petty. Especially in a cooperative game where everyone at the table (GM included) are working together to succeed and overcome the adventure.
So you are basically saying that after seeing a player with a legal ability you do not agree with you are going to alter all the enemies tactics to completely nullify his character? You realize that as a GM your job is to make sure all the players have fun. It is also your job to challenge them but give them encounters they are likey to succeed at. So why the enemy relationship with a player that is interested in giving up his time to hang out with you and play a game with you? Is his ability gamebreaking? No. Is he detracting from the gaming experience of the other players? No. So why ruin his night because you disagree with his concept? The attitude some GM's develop of "us against the players" is just silly. Your role is basically to let the players win and tell a decent story. A lot of players cheat on dice rolls. That I would be upset about. But a legal build that supports the party?
Different strokes for different folks i guess. Me, I would rather wait for the +2 weapon then burning a feat on Dervish and another on Quickdraw. Quickdraw has other uses of course but my melee builds almost never take it. You may be level 3-4 when you get the weapon (depending how frugal you are) but 2 feats are priceless. Again all just my opinion, which is worth less then the paper this post is printed on (which is none).
How often in Pathfinder society do you even see role-playing? I wish that was the experience that I have been getting as I am a huge roleplayer. It seems to me the session is so rushed to meet the time frame that the other players get legitamately irritated that I am wasting game time on roleplaying. Also aside from myself and one other player I met, I have yet to see a player speak or act in character. The other player I mentioned also seemed to just annoy the other players by acting in character. I rarely ever even get an introduction to the other characters or a simple character description. My last session at the very end when we where getting our chronicle sheets i found out that I was the only male in the group and that the entire rest of the party were Humans. The entire session I had no information on the other players other than their class and one player had a nameplate with an illegible character name on it (at least he tried). Going back to the playing your character based on his stats points that was brought up earlier. In all my recent sessions i have played a low intelligence, low wisdom character with high charisma that innocently walkes up to potential (bad guys) and tries to engage in diplomacy before anything that would make me a potential threat had been demonstrated. Not once have I been given an oppertunity to so much as roll diplomacy, always it is "roll initiative the enemy's get a surprise round". Even if I were to be given the chance to roll a skill (i.e. diplomacy) that would not be roleplaying that would be using a character ability and rolling a dice. In summary Pathfinder Society is a ton of fun, you get to meet tons of interesting people and raid a dungeon together. However (at least in my experience) it plays more like a table top war game with a slight story telling element. Character development, quirks, and personality all seem to flat out not meet the time frame. So it is still a worthy experience but roleplaying simply is not there.
Lay on Hands heals for 1d6+3 That is why I said he should consider it and it was not in my original build. Some players prioritize abilities differently and have dramatically different playstyles. My goal was to help him make his character, as opposed to having him just build mine.
By RAW, it is somewhat ambiguous that you need two move actions to don and ready. As far as I can tell, most interpretations say that those are synonymous terms, where a move action is all it takes to have your shield from where it lies on your back to being usable in your hands. And then with the AoO for slapping the shield back on your back... enh, there's too much room for fighting about it. I'll take the easy way out, and do as I said - abandon the plan. This sort of thing would only work in home games reliably, if carefully evaluated as to the ramifications to the particular campaign and player makeup. I see no reason to subject myself to the shield-using feasibility of my character being questioned everytime I get a new GM. No thank you, I'll play RAI and save shield use for the burly types. I know it is harsh all the drama that can come about in a game designed for everyone to work together and succeed. You just wanted to have fun with your concept (reminds me of Achilles in the movie Troy) and the people hate it because it is different. I still reccomend if it is the mechanical side of the fence you are after and not the flavor side just to wield a Wakazashi or Rapier with finesse (same damage and threat range as scimitar) and then slap Agile on it ASAP to bump up your DPS (Same effect as Dervish). If you use a Masterwork buckler or better you do not even get a penalty to attack rolls from Weapon Finesse because there is no Armor Check Penalty to apply to them. That is my 2 cents I hope everything works out for you.
15 B.A.B. is accurate albeit 1 less then I would Ideally like. At Base Attack 6, 11, and 16 you get an additional attack due to a high base attack bonus. Also this build gets additional attacks from spending Ninja ki, as well as the Wild Fighting ability of the Barbarian Archetype it uses, and an additional from haste. Ki and Wild Fighting are the only two abilities I have found that stack with the extra attack from haste. I did a final check on the list of all the abilities that are pathfinder society legal and it turns out the Wild Rager Barbarian Archtype is not. So great build for a home game but not good for PFS. I would probably just go normal Barbarian or even Mobile fighter in its place for PFS. Otherwise a pretty solid build, everything else is legal. Note instead of Extra bombs it turns out the Vivisectionist get either skill focus Alchemy or skill focus Knowledge nature in place of Brew potion. The Vestigal arm discovery that gives the extra arms specifically state that you have to use Two-weapon Fighting otherwise I would be wielding a Katana and 3 Wakazashi's with Multi-weapon fighting. Using the extra hands to assist in wielding 2 handed weapons is the most effective thing you can really do with them other than holding a sheild or a wand in the spare hands for a turn where you need AC or Magic.
Truth be told you could just get the Agile ability on your Scimitar and just forgo the Dervish feat all together. It is in the pathfinder field guide so it is society legal. It is a +1 enhancement equivalent ability and gives you dexterity to damage instead of strength so same thing without the feat or empty hand restriction. The only issue is you have to wait till you can afford a +2 weapon to get it. But hey then you can use whatever shield you want full time. I suppose you may want to look at it to make sure scimitar is a legal choice however as my memory is fuzzy on that point. You may have to use a Finesse compatible weapon. Edit: I looked it up for you and my suspicions were correct the weapon has to be Finesse compatible. So you may have to use a Rapier but unless you have a specific reason to stay with Scimitar or slashing weapons they are mechanically identical. You could also try the argument of using a buckler as it is not "in" your off hand but strapped to your arm. There by not in the strictist wording of the Dervish feat violating leaving your off hand open. That however may be enough of a grey area that the Gamemaster does not go for it.
I think my above attack progression is a bit off. I was up late last night and I guess the fatigue clouded my math. Assuming he is lv.20 with all the above bonuses in effect he has 3 standard attacks at +31/+26/+21. Therefore his attack bonuses would actually look like this... Primary +25/+25/+25/+25/+20/+15 Secondary +25/+20/+15 If anyone notices any discrepencies in my calculations please let me know. I am calculating a -6 to attack from Wild fighting and Two-weapon Fighting without a light off-hand weapon. Another point I am curious about is the wording of fighting with 2 handed weapons. It states on page 141 of the core rulebook that if you weild a weapon with two hands you get 1 and a half times your strength bonus to damage. With Vestigal Arms you use Two-weapon fighting (as opposed to the far superior IMO Multi-weapon fighting) but how do you determine if the off hand gets half strength or 1 and a half strength for using two-hands? The rules seem unclear so all my math assumes the worst of the possible 2 rulings. However if it goes with rules as written I suspect you would actually do compareable damage with the "off-hand" Nodachi and the Double Slice feat would be unneccesary.
So I guess the final draft that I have written up is as follows. I will write him up as a pathfinder society compatible character. I also decided to drop Drunken Rager for Fast Movement and I steered clear of Ninja Tricks that Required Ki until I built up a reserve of Ki. Human who drops bonus feat and Skilled for +2 dex and +2 Strength
Lv.1 Ninja1 -Poison use, Sneak Attack +1d6, takes the feat Iron Will and the Traits Indomitable Faith (+1 Will Saves) and Dirty Fighter (+1 Damage when Flanking) Lv.2 Ninja2 -Ki Pool, Ninja Trick (Weapon Training-Weapon focus Nodachi) Lv.3 Alchemist1(Vivisectionist, Rage Chemist) -Alchemy, Extra bombs, Mutagen, Throw anything, Takes the feat Power Attack Lv.4 Alchemist2 -Discovery (Vestigal Arm), Sneak Attack +2d6, Poison resistance +2, Rage Mutagen,
Lv.5 Barbarian1 (Wild Rager) -Uncontrolled Rage, Fast Movement, Takes the feat Two-Weapon Fighting Lv.6 Barbarian2 -Wild Fighting, Rage Power (Reckless Abandon) Lv.7 Ninja3 -No trace +1, Sneak attack +3d6, Takes the feat Extra discovery (Vestigal Arm) Lv.8 Ninja4 -Uncanny Dodge, Ninja Trick (Rouge Talent-Combat Trick-Improved Two-weapon fighting), Raises Strength 1 point Lv.9 Ninja5 -Sneak attack +4d6, Takes Feat Extra Rouge Talent-Ninja Trick (Pressure Points) Lv.10 Ninja6 -Light Steps, No trace +2, Ninja Trick (Fast Stealth) Lv.11 Ninja7 -Sneak Attack +5d6, Takes Feat Double Slice Lv.12 Ninja8 -Improved Uncanny Dodge, Ninja Trick (Vanishing Trick), Raises Dexterity 1 point Lv.13 Ninja9 -No trace +3, Sneak Attack +6d6, Takes Feat Extra Ki Lv.14 Ninja10 -Master Trick (Invisible Blade) Lv.15 Ninja11 -Sneak Attack +7d6, Takes Feat Improved Critical (Nodachi) Lv.16 Ninja12 -No trace +4, Master Trick Evasion, Raises Dexterity 1 point Lv.17 Ninja 13 -Sneak Attack +8d6, Takes Feat Greater Two-Weapon Fighting Lv.18 Ninja14 -Master Trick (Feat-Extra ki) Lv.19 Ninja15 -Sneak Attack +9d6, No Trace +5, Takes Feat-Extra Ki Lv.20 Ninja16-Master Trick Ghost Step, Raises Dexterity 1 point He caps with 16 Ki, +15+10+5 for BAB
When all is said and done when he goes “Nova” his Attacks will look like this (assuming he is Enlarged, and Hasted at the time and Flanking so an un-realistcally ideal scenario). No magic items of any sort are included in this. Magic weapons and a strength increasing item would substantially increase these values. Also a pair of Brilliant Energy Nodachi's would negate the majority of the AC that would be encountered. Also note if Greater Invisibility is in effect then opponent is denied dexterity bonus to armor class further lowering his AC. +11 to hit via strength +1 from weapon focus +1 to hit via reckless abandon +1 via haste +2 from Flank +31/+26/+21 total Primary Attacks +21/+21/+21/+21/+20/+15 Secondary Attacks +21/+20/+10 Primary attacks- Damage 2d8 ,+9d6 sneak attack, +12 power attack, +1 trait, +16 strength (added 50% because of 2 hands), 1 dexterity damage per hit (may lower AC for other attacks in chain). Secondary attacks- Damage 2d8, +9d6 sneak attack, +8 power attack, +1 trait, +11 strength (Double slice), 1 dexterity damage per hit (may lower AC for other attacks in chain). Edit:If greater Invisibility is in effect while dual weilding brilliiant energy Nodachi's the opponent does not get Armor, sheild, or dexterity to armor class. So misc. bonuses such as dodge, Deflection, natural armor, and luck bonuses are pretty much all they would have.
@Mergy When I was originally brain storming this concept I was considering Vivisectionist over ninja. Here are the reasons I chose not to. By splashing levels of Alchemist any extracts you wanted you can just get wands of anyway. Ninja has Ki which gives you insane versitility to either add 20 feet to position yourself for a flank, get an extra attack, or turn invisible as a swift action which may open up another sneak attack or get you out of trouble. Also Ninja's have acess to Weapon training which frees up a feat for weapon focus, Combat Trick which frees up a feat for Two weapon fighting, and Pressure points which lowers their dex in effect lowering their armor class for secondary attacks. Bleeding attacks is not bad either for additional DPS and Shadow clone can be helpful if you are forced to tank for the party. Alchemist has very few discoveries that accent this build. Ninja has double the skill points of the Alchemist which allows for low intelligence and still maintaning decent skill use. Turns you are chugging extracts you are not contributing to combat. Also your extracts only effect you which is a poor substitute for a Wizard who can buff the party. You could however bump up vivsectionist to level 4 in order to save yourself a feat getting the 4th arm via the Alchemists next discovery. It really depends on how you prioritize skill points and Ninja talent vs. a standard feat for leveling up.
Mort you bring up some very valid points to consider. Your right Confusion is a status I was under the impression that it was merely a spell. There is a trait that gives +1 to will saves that could be taken in it's stead I guess. As for the flank I have to be very careful to note that enemies are closer than allies which will be difficult I am sure. So I will drop my strength to 16+2 from human for 18 and my Charisma to 10 in order to raise my Wisdom to 14. With 14 Wisdom I will have a +2 to Will save.
So in effect I need to roll a 5 to save from the confusion effect before I get any items or other effects that assist my save. The feat spent on Iron Will is going to sting a bit but I think my Party will thank me in the long run.
Haha I just read the confusion spell and it actually can work in my favor. Rounds spent in confusion do not count against numbers of rounds raging for the day (which this build has few of to begin with). There is a 25% chance to do nothing, a 25% chance to do whatever I want to do, a 25% chance to do 1d8+str modifier to myself, and a 25% chance to attack the nearest creature(not necessarily an ally). So step 1 Drink Mutagen, buff up with potions, pull out second Nodachi and swift invisibility. Step 2 Position self for good attack posistion among a group of enemies. Step 3 Rage full attack, extra attacks from Wild Fighting and Ninja Ki. After enemy dies voluntarily fail your save (if not near allies) and attack other enemies. As per confusion spell if any enemy deals damage to you they are automatically the next target for attack in lieu of rolling for confusion. So in effect you get free turns of rage if any monster defends themself or attack of oppertunity's you. However you then go on autopilot to kibble them. When enemies start to get scarce or keep their distance you save to break out of confusion. Then you use Raging Drunk to reposition yourself without losing turns of rage. Rinse and repeat. A GM could potentially nerf this by taking out of game information and having the monsters avoid and ignore your raging 4 armed low AC character. So the effectiveness of this combo is heavily based on the Gamemasters level of Metagaming. If the GM nerfs it just start making saves. Also if ALL the monsters begin beating on you make the save, turn invisible and run like the brave, brave Paladin you are not.
Are you serious Mergy? The DC caps at 13 with this build for the Will save for Uncontrolled Rage. Furthermore you get to roll every round to come out of it and you attack the nearest creature the first round and have a 25% chance of attacking the nearest creature in follow up rounds IF you continue to fail the save. In addition it is only with your remaining attacks after killing the opponent (which may be none), you choose your position (dont rage near allies), and warn them ahead of time of what happens when you rage (which happens what one fight a day?). If you are killing allies with this build then you are tactically incompetant, your allies are, or a LOT of really unlucky rolls are going down. If the DC of 13 is too much for you use YOUR build where you drop Ninja for Vivisectionist and have a 7 Charisma then the DC is 10, then get a trait for +2 Will And Iron will for an additional +2, problem solved you need to roll a 6 minus whatever you get from class bonus. Edit: Oh yeah and raging gives you +2 to will saves. I suppose I should also clarify what trait for other readers. Birthmark a Faith trait gives you +2 to Will saves vs. Charm and Compulsion effects. Confusion is a Compulsion effect.
Honestly I would try to reason with the other players. If the majority still beleive that you are too powerful then make a new character. If this were an Online game or Pathfinder Society we were talking about I would tell you to just say tough luck. But as these are living breathing friends that you see face to face, keeping everyone happy is far more important. Are you willing to alienate yourself to your friends and risk the game ending prematurely due to dis-interest? If not then you need to find a way to keep everyone happy and that may mean making a new character. I do however concede that the situation you find yourself in is unfair, however so is life. It is just the way the cards fell, and in this instance they did not fall in your favor. Sorry it is not the answer you wanted to hear. Edit: I am speaking from personal experience. As a power gamer myself I commonly run into this same scenario and have to contend with party jealosy. I have fought the battle before with many groups on many occasions. The game almost always ends a few sessions after the issue is brought up. Depending on your behavior you may shut the door on ever playing with those players again. Beleive me it is better just to concede because with the average gamer menatlity you will not sway them with reason or logic. By the sounds of it they have already convinced themself that your character is the problem and have grouped up against you. Unless you believe you have the ability to sway a mob mentality then the fight is already over. I hope you like your next character as well.
I could see dropping the strength down, raising the intelligence to 12 I could agree with, but the charisma of 7 nerfs the ninja ki ability that is the cornerstone of the 16 levels of Ninja he is taking. Also I was aware of the loss of skilled I mentioned it in the above post with " If you had the advanced race guide you could forgo the feat and skill points to add 2 to con or even dex...". I suppose I was a bit unclear so I apologize. Honestly I am normally a bit of a grammar nazi and tend to over explain everything but with the sheer number of posts I have been putting out these past 2 days I have gotten a tad bit lazy.
How often in Pathfinder society do you even see role-playing? With the 4 different game masters I have had it is this recipe- Step 1 get mission from venture captain, then ask questions (usually 1 or 2 are asked with no coresponding die roll). Step 2 meet contact at adventure site and ask questions (here you may get a sense motive roll in if you are lucky) Step 3 go to dungeon and survive 4 or 5 encounters looking for an item or body for your faction mission. The only skill roll I regularly see are Perception, and Knowledge skills. Well Perception is nice but every other player in the group is rolling and generally have ranks. The DC for plot specific items are also generally low so they are not bypassed. Also few paladins would put ranks in it anyway due to the lack of skill points, the same goes for knowledge skills. Diplomacy is nice but rarely used, with his high charisma he will stil be decent at it with just a untrained roll. If he really likes the concept he can put 1 rank in it at a level up for an addittional +4 to it or even get the feat skill focus diplomacy. There is also a spell called honeyed tounge where he rolls twice and takes the better roll. So all is easily compensated for. |
