Ogwar's page

In all my years gaming I never made it to Gen Con, but in just a few weeks my 17 year old daughter will be making her first trip there. She has a Cos Play costume her friends have sewn and a carload of teenage girls are making the trek to Indianapolis.

Lisa you should know without your Pathfinder game, she would never have gone. She joined my "D&D" group last year in 2010 when we put down 4E and picked up Pathfinder. She has been playing with us ever since.

So thank you for the game, and letting me live vicatiously through my daughter. (and you better sign her Pathfinder book)...LOL

-Og

Our group shares GMing duties and all of them have cool home brew worlds they like. But I am partial to good old Golarion, my turn in “the chair” is running Rise of the Runelords. So as I leaf through my new Inner Sea Guide I am mapping oddities in the world like where Varisians can be found and notice that Mendev doesn’t have any “core race.”
I bet there is a story there, and I would like to write my own Golarian story arc…hey let’s read. What an awesome tale of adventure that place is eh? Huh on the map is Valas’s Gift but no mention of it…nope not anywhere…Then I leap over to Liane Merciel’s “Certainty”.
Oh dear Iomedae’s radiant sword… what a great tale that is. Now I have to write this story, nice beginning adventure, helping out in Egede doing some crusader’s bidding, and mid levels heading to the edge to battle hordelings, and high level finish with balors and world saving feats of heroism.
I wasted four quality productive hours of work today, reading stuff I hadn’t read before and cemeting my love for this game and it’s core setting. Thank you everyone who make this such a rich environment.

If you're looking for FREE digital assets, I think there's plenty available on google.

The Inner Sea Map Folio is ludicrously detailed, available for purchase as a poster or in PDF.

Yup, Inner Sea Map Folio...it's not just for Father's Day....

So if my party encounters a monster, takes it on for several rounds, gleams information on its fighting tactics, fails to defeat it, and runs away, do they get experience for that monster?

Are the players gleaming information so they can return to defeat the monster later? If that is the case, I would not grant XP until they returned. Otherwise they would get double the XP for a single creature.

What an odd levelling tactic that would be,
1. encounter creature
2. appropriate knowledge check and two turns of combat
3. run away (Granted XP award)
4. get vulnerability and tactics down
5. come back to defeat monster again (granted XP award)

Should my players be reading this post...it ain't happening...no no no

Hey everyone, I just have a quick question that I've been wondering about. Next session, my players will be fighting in a barley field (the barley being fairly large, about 3 feet in height), and I was looking at the cover and concealment rules to see if it should or would provide either. I may not be looking thoroughly enough, but I'm not sure what to consider it, if anything. What would you rule it as?

Thanks for your help!

My ruling would be difficult terrain for all. Medium creatures would get partial cover (+2 ac) and small creatures more cover (+4 AC).

After all a 3' tall halfling in a 3' tall barely field should be able to have some stealth...even in the bright noonday sun.

This thread is as plain as the nose on my face

Wait a minute, get back here! We weren't done discussing this into the ground, trolling, ranting, and committing logical fallacies! This thread can't be over already!

Great! now I actually LAUGHED OUT LOUD and they KNOW I am not working...

so then the answer (as always) is your GM may vary...

I am down with that.

Rather than discussing what is and is not a swamp, the Core Rulebook simply uses "hardness of ground" to measure base DC:

Very Soft Ground: Any surface (fresh snow, thick dust, wet

mud) that holds deep, clear impressions of footprints.
Soft Ground: Any surface soft enough to yield to pressure,
but firmer than wet mud or fresh snow, in which a creature
leaves frequent but shallow footprints.
Firm Ground: Most normal outdoor surfaces (such as
lawns, fields, woods, and the like) or exceptionally soft or
dirty indoor surfaces (thick rugs and very dirty or dusty
f loors). The creature might leave some traces (broken
branches or tufts of hair), but it leaves only occasional or
partial footprints.
Hard Ground: Any surface that doesn’t hold footprints at
all, such as bare rock or an indoor f loor. Most streambeds
fall into this category, since any footprints left behind are
obscured or washed away. The creature leaves only traces
(scuff marks or displaced pebbles).

So if the "swamp/marsh/bayou" leaves frequent but shallow footpints it is soft ground; DC=10.

I think the big thing is that hiding the trail is a set DC for a set bonus. I think this should be an opposed roll of some kind, or at least scaling. Something like +5, +1 per 5 over the DC.

That is intersteing, I am mulling this around in my head. A level 20 ranger or druid who has been tracking beasts his whole career should be better at getting rid of his tracks. An opposed Survival check, to cover and track the party.

In my head it sounds good but when you add the multipliers is gets odd: How would you add the bonuses for soft ground, one hour leadtime and party of 3+ (DC12 in above example) let's assume both rangers have a survival skill of +10:

First ranger is hiding tracks:
Hiding tracks in soft ground DC10 [or is it harder to hide them DC20?] +1 hour lead time (-1)
3+ party members -1
DC is 10 [20 if you think is should be harder for soft ground]
a roll of 10+10 skill is a 20 beating the DC by 10

Second ranger is tracking:
Finding tracks in soft ground DC 10
+1 hour lead time
3+ members in party
+10 DC for opposed check
DC is now 20 to find the tracks

a roll of 10 +10 will find the tracks, checking every hour, the trackign ranger will find the trai labout half time and lose it about half the time. That seems more feasible. Naturally this is a houserule for me and not as written nor probably intended. Still it is kind of interesting as a level 20 ranger would be better at hiding tracks than a level 5 ranger would be at finding them, and that makes sense to me. (opinions may vary and feedback is welcome)

In the APG, there is the Extra Rogue Talent feat...

APG wrote:

You gain one additional rogue talent. You must meet all of the prerequisites for this rogue talent.

When a rogue gains 10th level, then gain access to Advanced Talents.

Core Rogue wrote:

At 10th level, and every two levels thereafter, a rogue can choose one of the following advanced talents in place of a rogue talent.

If an 11th level rogue used their feat to gain Extra Rogue Talent, could he select an Advanced Talent? It's sort of odd wording, but it seems to me that if he has access to it, he should be able to select it.

Yes, Sir. As I understand it, that is exactly how it works, remember you are giving up a feat and instead getting a talent, and after 10th level that talent may be an Advanced talent.

I thought you picked ONE of the bonuses (skills or hp) and then that was it.

not as I understand it, you choose each time you level ... either Hit Point or Skill Point

Armor Training (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, a fighter learns to be more maneuverable while wearing armor.

Whenever he is wearing armor, he reduces the armor
check penalty by 1 (to a minimum of 0) and increases the
maximum Dexterity bonus allowed by his armor by 1. Every
four levels thereafter (7th, 11th, and 15th), these bonuses
increase by +1 each time, to a maximum –4 reduction of the
armor check penalty and a +4 increase of the maximum
Dexterity bonus allowed.

As written I would say there is no mention of shields. "Whenever he is wearing armor" and having a shield on your arm is not wearing armor.

That being said, it is your DM's choice. If I were running your game, I would probably allow it since sword and board fighters are training to use their armor and shields in ways that us common folk would never understand. I believe a "shield master" level 12 fighter is not as restricted with his shield as a first level fighter learning to spar. So I would allow it.

But as written I would say no. [How about THAT for a wishy-washy answer]

If the players are having fun, it doesn't need to be fixed.

One thing I did for my young people was include some moral and t=ethical choices....kick the door in...goblins! kill them all, they cried and rolled for initiative, but what about goblin babies and older and weaker goblins?

maybe have goblins kick their door in once in a while, see how they like it.

again, if the players are having fun...it isn't broke.

HeHateMe and TriOmega: I meant no disrespect to your generations. Only stating some frusteration with my personal gaming table and the type of game I want to participate in. Please keep your name calling to a minimum.
Your are correct there are and were power gamers in the 1980's we invented the term Monty haul campaigns and Hack-n-Slash. There are also great role players in your generation. My generation didn't have anime cos play and conventions. What an awesome opportunity to advance my hobby this generation has.
In one of my other threads I point out I have started family campaign night to teach my 9 and 11 year olds the hobby and they are loving the Kingmaker. (Great way to get them to clean too...no Pathfinder until I see bedroom floor)
There are good role players in your generation too. I just haven't experienced many. I would really like to. I read BrassBaboon and know his side pouch has a whetstone in it, and if we lived closer we would share a fairly like minded table...and perhaps a frosty beverage.

I read your replies and thank you all for the forethought and effort you put into explaining your viewpoints. A few points I didn't make as clear as I liked, were mainly due to my inability to stop the ramble and get to the point.

Min/Maxing isn't bad; it's a style of character creation. 3d6 and "let them lay" is a different style of character creation. Heck we have a game running now where folks roll 2d6+6 for a heroic feel...

My point was simply that most of the players in the local game store and my table (whether I DM or play) are more likely to tell you the next feat they will select than their character's home town.

"I make my story start at the campaign's beginning"...is something I simply can't understand. Why does your character have a tattoo, wear all blue, fight two handed, why are the class they chose, why did they leave their home? How do they feel about discipline, ethics, and morality? How strongly do they feel about those things? These aren't fine details I am bringing up. They are general concepts that will help any player wrap his/her head around the character they portray, and the party/team knows what to expect from that character.

I can play a dutiful rogue or a cowardly paladin, a stalwart fighter or a zealot druid...I am pretty sure in all those cases I know what feat I am going to take next level or what prestige class I hope for and when.

What I don't see in my local game store or my gaming table is the same effort put into the simplest of character concepts that is being put into stat blocks and build points.

-Oggie

YMMV (your mileage may vary?)
OP (original poster or Old PeePeeHead?)

It is hard to start a thread with “back in my day” and sound legitimate. I understand this RPG hobby of mine evolves and changes and every generation handles things differently. I also will concur it is my right to avoid game systems that use point buy and min/max stat blocks. With all of that being said, my question is:

“Do your players put as much time in their backgrounds as they do their stat blocks and feat choices?”

I just long for the day when Roger used a Scottish accent for his dwarf and suddenly all dwarves needed to have one. When you had four dump stats because your 3d6 didn’t like you. A fighter was still pretty awesome if he has 15 strength.

I just don’t understand the “uber” factor of my current player set. That is a broad generalist stroke I know, but I enjoy knowing my ranger should have bees wax for his bow string, so it doesn’t get ruined in the rain, and the rogue carried chalk to mark the corridors that were scouted… we made characters that played roles in a great story…not stat blocks for a squad combat mini game.

Maybe I just need a change of scenery, or to find a group of 40 somethings that are like minded and stop gaming with the younger gamers…It is probably just me being cantankerous….

KaeYoss is correct, the way we do it is subtract "farmland production" from the consumption owed. From the AP:

Every farmland hex in your kingdom reduces your Consumption by 2 BP

... so 27 farmlands would reduce your consumption by 54BP and your consumption would be 0.

As the resident "Dad" gamer in our group, there are a couple of options you can present. What about a joint character? Let's say you meet once a week. Every week one parent shows up to game and the other stays home with kid to give kid attention and keep schedule where they want it. Next week the parents switch. Your group gets consistancy with one character at the table and Mom and Dad get to game, talk about the game and compare notes on how to best work with "shared" character.

The advice here is good, personally as the parent in your scenario, I would like to be told before it gets worse. And just tell them that the child is not safe in your home and you are not comfortable being responsible for that.

Remember they are new and first time parents so caring for that baby is almost an addiction to them, If your house if full of 25mm minis and D4's ...they know there are choke hazards everywhere. No one wants something bad to happen to the kid, but the parents need to respect the fact that other adults put their live's on hold for game night.

It is in everyone's best interest to have baby stay home.

Please allow me to add, that Rise of the Runelords was and is brilliant writing. I play in a group of 20 somethings with me being the old man (43). I ran Burnt Offerings and the players are hooked. We take turns running different things and there is always talk of the rotation changing to ge to part 2 of the AP. Brilliant Brilliant AP, just not for my 8 and 10 year old. Now my 19 year old son and 17 year old daughter LOVE RoTR.

I think the general tone of most AP's are in the PG-13 range, with one or two "R" themes and scenes I can edit out. But being a busy Dad, I love the fact that Kingmaker stays nearer to the PG13 range.

[If bordello becomes dance hall, where flks go to watch people "dance" the teenage kids think strip club and the 8 year old thinks "dance recital"]

The point being my wife who hasn't played in 20 years loves Pathfinder and is playing twice a week. She joined the 20 something group and family night. It has brought the family closer together and for that I thnk you.

I have been playing Pathfinder for a while now, I ran Rise of the Runelords for our weekly group and they loved it. 4E was left behind and we have been Pathfinding every since. Flash forward and my two youngest children are ready to play, ages 10 and 11. I needed an AP that I could scale back to PG - 13. A little violence and blood without the "adult theme" of most AP storylines.

Kingmaker has been an awesome family night game, Mom is even playing now and the kids are carving out their kingdom. Radish-drunk kobolds and rickity bridges are exciting when it's your first dungeon ever.

I just needed to post a quick thank you, this AP have been fantastic and I am glad to be a subscriber.