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I'm not sure whether you should make a turtle or tortoise one. Maybe both? Maybe Males are tortoise and females are turtles? That might work, and it adds something to the race that most races don't have. Or maybe males just resemble tortoises ore and females resemble turtles more?
So for a race, how about this one:

Type: Humanoid (0 RP), and their race subtype.
Size: Medium (0 RP).
Base Speed: Slow Speed (-1 RP). Base 20 ft. speed, speed is never modified by armor or encumbrance.
Ability Score Modifier: Standard-ish (0 RP). +2 Strength, +2 Constitution, -2 Dexterity.
Language Quality: Standard (0 RP).
Racial Traits:
Natural Armour (2 RP). +1 Natural Armour bonus.
Improved Natural Armour (1 RP). +1 Natural Armour bonus.
Swim (2 RP). +8 racial bonus on Swim checks, 30 ft. swim speed
Bite (2 RP). Natural bite attack (1d4). Primary attack, but secondary if wielding manufactured weapons.
Low-Light Vision (1 RP). Can see twice as far as a race with normal vision in conditions of dim light.
Hold Breath? (1 RP). Can hold their breath for a number of rounds equal to four times their Constitution score before risking drowning or suffocating.

Overall, 8 RP cost. That's low for a race, but not stupidly low (half-orcs are 8 RP in comparison).

Maybe give them the Static Bonus Feat (2 RP) (all race members get that feat at 1st level) for Great Fortitude, if you want to buff the a little.
I would also suggest having a feat chain of two racial feats. The first one increases your natural armour bonus by +2, and the second one would give you another +2 natural armour bonus and give you the shell ability (move action to retreat into shell, +4 natural armour while inside but can't move or attack, move action to leave). I dunno about levels though, maybe the first one is 3rd and second is 6th? Less? More? I don't know, you can decide.

Mind you I just used the "Create New Races" thing, so others might have more creative stuff.


Ok here are the rest of my spell suggestions:

7th: Burst of Speed, Haste, Heroism, Ki Leech, Remove Disease, or Tongues. Burst of Speed or Haste because of Fast Movement, Heroism because of it fits, Ki Leech because Ki, Remove Disease because of Purity of Body, and Tongues because of Tongue of the Sun and Moon.

9th: Dimension Door, Forceful Strike, Freedom of Movement, or Replenish Ki. Dimension Door because Abundant Step, Forceful Strike because unarmed damage, Freedom of Movement because that seems like a monk thing, and Replenish Ki because of Ki.

11th: Err.. Dispel Chaos or Break Enchantment?

13th: Heroism, Greater?

15th: Ethereal Jaunt or Ki Shout. Ethereal Jaunt because of Empty body, Ki Shout because Ki.

17th: Iron Body or Shield of Law?

19th: Etherealness or Freedom?


To see if I can clear some stuff, this image is probably a better representation of a tesseract's net / an unfolded tesseract. Higher dimension stuff it weird.

So I imagine the material component would be something like: "A diamond tesseract net worth 1000 gp" or something and the first sentence would be like "When you cast this spell, the diamond tesseract net folds into a tesseract, and when the spell effect ends it disappears into another dimension." or something like that, maybe it just gets destroyed.


christos gurd wrote:
15th- No clue yet

Slow fall, duh.

But seriously, I'd probably go with Diamond Soul. This is supposed to be a monk bloodline, might as well have monk abilities.

That said, we might need to change around the Ki pool and what it can do, or maybe not, you do get bonus melee damage and AC, so it might be a good idea to keep it that way then I suppose.

As for the spells, here are some choices you might want to consider:
3rd: Adjuring Step, Abstemiousness, Comprehend Languages, Endure Elements, Feather Fall, Ki Arrow, Keen Senses Mighty Fist Of The Earth, or Protection from Chaos. Adjuring Step because of Abundant Step, Abstemiousness because Irori=monk, Comprehend Languages because of Tongue of the Sun and Moon, Feather Fall because of Slow Fall, Ki Arrow because Ki Arrow, Keen Senses because monks usually have keen senses, Mighty Fist Of The Earth because of unarmed strike and ki strike synergy, and Protection from Chaos because Protection from Chaos.
5th: Delay Disease, Delay Poison, or Spider Climb. Delay Disease and Delay poison because of Purity of Body and Diamond Body, respectively, and Spider Climb because Spider Climb.
Will do others in 10 or so hours. I need sleep right now.


Well it's powerful, but it's a 9th level spell, they tend to be powerful spells. It's not like this is going to be your only 9th level spell though, it's just really good at what it does (which is what all 9th level spells should be, and are iirc). And it looks like you included all forms of perception that are spells and stuff, so I guess that part is fine.
And as Zaister mentioned, you should probably change it from a tesseract... unless that's what you want it to be, in which can, why?


2 people marked this as a favorite.

English is a weird language.


I actually made a druid archetype that focuses on elementals, though I did steal the elementalurgist's element bond ability. I suggest looking at that archetype (it's 3rd party though) to get some ideas. I decided to make my druid's wild shape to transform into an elemental at the same levels as a normal druid, but you cant wild shape into anything else (obviously). Maaaaybe you could do some sort of elemental body V and VI effect so that your elemental shape becomes more powerful (corresponding to going from Huge to Greater and Greater to Elder) at 14th and 16th I would imagine. Hell, I might do that myself...

But, if you're looking at doing a elemental body-esque effect, I'd suggesting following the idea of the Elemental infusion ability of the elementalurgist druid archetype I mentioned before.


/thread


Well let me have a crack at the magic beast companion:

HD: d10's instead of d8's.
BAB: Full progression (BAB=HD instead of medium progression (3/4 HD).
Same skill points (2+int mod/HD)
Darkvision 60 ft, on top of the low-light vision.
And they'd gain some Su or Ex abilities or something.

Ehh, seems a bit powerful I suppose.

But maybe you could just use the already existing animal companions and just make then magical beasts and add more stuff, like "This works just like a Druid's animal companion except as follows:
X
Y
Z
..."
So just animal companion with some extras, like d10 HD and darkvision, and maybe they get to choose some eidolon evolutions or something like that.

But it's your class not mine, you can do whatever you want with it.


"Beast Master" makes it sound like you have a lot of beasts at your disposal or is focused around commanding beats, stuff like that, not being a really cool wo/man-beast.
And it seems pretty powerful at the moment. You might want to tone down stuff just a bit, such as maybe making the your beast companion not use the eidolon stuff but instead follow the animal companion rules but adding magical beast stuff, and maybe even adding some already magical beasts as possible animal companions.

Other than that, it's a really cool class but just needs to be refined a bit more.


http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/humanoids/android
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/more-races#TOC-Android-16-Race-Po ints-
http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Android
http://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Numeria

Merry Christmas.


Well, what if you couldn't choose what evolutions it had? The eidolon grows with the summoner, not by you choosing how it grows in the split second that you summon it. I imagine the GM would decide or you get to roll some dice to determine which evolutions it has. Hell, maybe it wouldn't even have evolution points.


Laukai wrote:

Class Skills:

Bluff, Concentration, Diplomacy, Disguise, Knowledge: Dungeoneer, Linguistics, Perception, Spot, Survival, Spellcraft.

You should add craft, profession and swim. And I didn't know that PF used concentration or spot as skills, did I miss something?

Laukai wrote:
TABLE: METAMORPH - Metamorph Spells per Day

3/4 bab is good, but give it at least good reflex and maaaybe fortitude.

Laukai wrote:
Metamorphose Spells Cast per Day

If you're giving them 9th level spells, which I advise against, make sure they only get a limited selection of spells (which includes every polymorph spells). You should be focusing on the shapeshifting aspect not the spell casting aspect.

Laukai wrote:

Weapon and Armor Proficiency:

Metamorphs are not proficient with man made weapons, however, they are proficient with all natural attacks (claw, bite, and so forth) of any form they assume through any spell or ability from the polymorph sub-school.

I'm pretty sure you're always proficient with natural attacks that you have. I could be wrong though.

Laukai wrote:
Morphic Weapons (Su):

You need to say how many you can have, and maybe if you forsake not one but two natural attacks to make an already existing one be effectively two sizes larger, same with using 3 or 4 (of you even give them 3 or 4). You should make it a full round action to change one weapon to another, or something like that.

Laukai wrote:
Metamorphose:

How many times a day? As a spell like ability? Do they just gain the spell? Please elaborte on this. I'll get to the actual metamorphose spells in a bit.

Laukai wrote:
Morphic Gestalt (Su):

This is cool, but seems powerful. Maybe get it at a later level like 10th?

Laukai wrote:
Morphic Strikes (Su):

Sure?

Laukai wrote:
Morphic Imitation (Su):

This is good, but getting the ability to mimic clothing at 17th seems very late. I'm thinking like 12th or 14th if anything.

Laukai wrote:
Morphic Endurance (Su):

Sure?

Laukai wrote:
Morphic Mastery:

I'm thinking instead that they get this at 5th, but instead of just metamorphose I and II, they can infinitely stay in a metamorphose spells whose spell level is equal to or less than 1/5 of your metamorph class level, so at 5th its M I, 10th M II, 15th M III and 20th M IV. Maybe powerful, but it seems like a better option to me, or at least something similar. Though, see below.

Laukai wrote:
METAMORPHOSE I - X

(Your table says Metamorphose X though the spell says Evershifting Form)

I think this is a bad way of doing it.
They should not be spells, they should be a combination of the polymorph spells into a class ability, like WIld Shape. This also means you should merge morphic gestalt with it, same with Morphic mastery
And ever shifting form is horribly OP. At 20th you would just make the Metamorphose class ability (not spell) at will, or close enough to it.
I'm sorry to say, but it's a good idea with a bad execution, but that doesn't stop you from making it better.
As for Object Shape, that seems cool.

So, currently it's a 5/10. Not bad, not good. If you just spend a little bit of time tidying things up (and making metamorphose a class ability not a spell), this could easily become an 8/10 or a 9/10 or a 10/10 class.


lol.

Here have some more:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/c-d/demoniac
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/c-d/diabolist
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/s-z/souldrinke r


Do you mean the genie binder?


Asuras... I suppose they might have you aid them in destruction of everything. Might be cool.
Demodands probably shouldn't be an option, because they would try to enslave you instead of making pacts with you. A pact with the Titans would make much more sense, which would then give you a demodand companion methinks.
Divs might also be another problem, since they hate mortals and thus would probably attack you instead of making a pact.
Genies would work.
Kamis might be weird. Maybe you are the kami's ward, or maybe something from the ritual is the kami's ward? Oh duh, the pact key would be it.
Kytons would work, like they aid you and take the corpses of the things you beat. Might make for a very interesting companion.
Onis might not work, like the demodands they'd just try to enslave you.
Psychopomps might work.
Rakshasas might also be a problem, because they really only care about themselves which would make for a very one-sided pack.

So, if it were me I'd probably replace Demodands with Titans and get rid of Divs, Onis and Rakshasas. But that's just me, you might have some other way of making it work.


What are the 22 different groups though? I presume you have the 12 from here but what other ones did you choose?


I'm thinking that while overclocking you don't heal back the non-lethal damage (I'm pretty sure that was the impression I left but I didn't actually write it), but I'm tossing around of when you take the lethal damage, as in do you take it while overclocking or at the end of the overclock. At the end works, because it's like you overwork a machine and it explodes at the end, but during also makes sense, but I might stick to damage at the end for the time being. Maybe you take 2 points of non-lethal damage each round while overclocking with non-lethal damage that you got from the overclock? That might work.


Pact Key is... cool. That's a very nice idea you have there, and it's a very nice way of doing things about where he actually gets his spells from.

Like I said at the end of my other post, Summon Monster might work better than Planar Ally for spirit ties.

Spirit allies seems a bit strong, but

I don't really think you need spirit binding. Maybe you get some ability that gives you a bonus when doing planar ally, planar binding and summon monster (and other outsider calling spells), or something like that.

Now, as for what Pacts there actually are, I think you should stick to 12 for the time being, and those twelve being the ones found on this page under the Dealing with outsiders section. I know it's not all of them but not every outsider will be willing to make a pact with you.


AnnoyingOrange wrote:
* The MT is quite useless the first 2 levels without school powers, few spells, no channeling or domain powers. For that reason I'd rather see Hand of the theurge at 1st level.

I does have both the arcane and divine subdomain powers at 1st. I made hand of the theurge a 3rd level things because I made Magical Mastery a 10th level thing, but that decision is not set in stone and I might change it.

AnnoyingOrange wrote:
* Cantrips and orisons, I would keep cantrips and orisons usable higher since they do not benefit from the bonus spells they just lose there. Advance them as a wizard being able to pick either orisons or cantrips.

Cantrips/Orisons is you can prepare that many spells and not expend them, from either spell list. Do you mean just let them have 3 at 1st and 4 every other level? The reason I named it cantrips/orisons is because it's both at the same time (that and I haven't come up with a better, singular word name yet).

AnnoyingOrange wrote:
* spell synthesis by the MT was only possible at lvl 16 and by then it could only cast lvl 7 spells. I think the ability is a bit strong as it is. Also I would like the MT to use it's lower lvl spell slots more efficiently rather than go nova.

Looking back, 11th is pretty powerful. I do want to keep it, but I will probably move it to a later level. Maybe move it to 15th and 2/day at 19th?

AnnoyingOrange wrote:
* I'd not change to combined spells 3/day, it is not meant to have access to more high level spells than a wizard or cleric. honestly I was hesitant to increase it to 2/day for that reason, but I tink that is fine.

Do you mean spell synthesis? because combined spells only goes up to 2/day...

If you do mean spell synthesis, then like I said before I might move it to a later level.

AnnoyingOrange wrote:
* I'd give Hand of the Theurge at 1st, Theurge bonus feat at 2nd, Scribe scroll 3rd. (Theurge at 2nd lvl is fine, other classes can only use it at 3rd at earliest and with few spell slots I do not think anyone wants to use it at 1st lvl)

This does seem like the better option.

AnnoyingOrange wrote:
* I am unsure of the prayerbook/spellbook idea, but it is a possible way to nerve it a bit in some ways without shutting down potential.

If I do this, then I'm thinking they would either get 3 bonus spells each level, or 2 bonus spells from each spell list.

AnnoyingOrange wrote:
* Bonus feats might not be needed, I would like the mystic theurge to have access to Arcane Discoveries as a wizard though.

Maybe they can get an arcane discovery instead of a feat, using your mystic theurge levels as your wizard levels for determining if you can get them? That might be alright, but I would like some sort of divine magic alternative.


Well what I'm thinking is strength and dexterity is the bonus (like yours, because con doesn't make sense for robots), and it being a circumstance bonus fits very well, but I'm going to try to aim more towards a Haste like ability instead of, well, a rage like one... maybe.
As for the Overclock powers, I only see them using a limited scope of rage powers, because I see Overclock powers as being basically all extra ordinary powers and no supernatural ones, and even then. That means no totems, but maybe some sort of equivalent, maybe.
Fast movement will stay, and I might even have some sort of monk-like progression with a speed increase while raging, because I am aiming for a more haste like rage as I said before.
I'm thinking they'd gain a reflex bonus instead of a will bonus, because as they level they function/process faster, or at least that's what I'm thinking. I'm also most likely going to replace trap sense and maybe, maaaybe do something with the DR.
And finally (for now), I was thinking of doing a pseudo-fatigued thing for when you go out of overclock, and I might go back to that (or do something similar), but your idea gave me an idea. Basically instead of becoming fatigued, because you're immune to the fatigued condition, you instead take an amount of non-lethal damage equal to 2 times the amount of rounds spent overclocked. Every round you heal 1 of these non-lethal damage points back, but only the non-lethal damage from this ability. If you overclock when you still have non-lethal damage caused by this ability, you instead take an amount of lethal damage equal to 2 times the amount of rounds spent overclocking. This lethal damage is not healed by this ability.
Personally I like this more because I don't think taking lethal damage right off the bat will be appealing to, anybody. And at 17th you would stop taking this damage.

I'll try and form this mess into something good (hopefully), and I'll post it either here or in a new thread. I'll work on the Overclock powers last, so don't expect to see many of them when I first post the class.


christos gurd wrote:
awww, thats why your my favorite Australian! :)

Just so you now, I'm an Australian as well, just putting it out there. And my heritage is only half convicts if that makes it better

@Elghinn
I'm a bit busy right now doing my own pathfinder stuff (an Android racial barbarian archetype... ohgodwhy), but I'll be sure to be here for the next MCA you start working on, at most the one after that.


ABCoLD wrote:
Overclocker - Android Barbarian Archetype

I hope you don't mind if I expand on this myself, because it's a really cool idea you have there.


Ok, I've updated it a bit and I hope you like this one more:

Mystic Theurge
Alignment: A mystic theurge's alignment must be within one step of his deity's, if any. They are usually neutral, and they usually worship Nethys.
Class Skills
The mystic theurge's class skills are Appraise (Int), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Fly (Dex), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (all) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), and Use Magic Device (Cha).
Skill Ranks per Level: 2 + Int modifier.
Table: Mystic Theurge (Slow progression (1/2 BAB), good will, bad fort and ref. Spells per day are basically Sorcerer spells per day -3, with 2 0th level spells at 1st and 3 every other level.)

1st Aura, orisons/cantrips, Theurgy, theurgy domain
2nd Scribe Scroll
3rd Hand of the Theurge
4th Combined Spells 1/day
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th
10th Magical Mastery
11th Spell Synthesis 1/day
12th
13th Combined Spells 2/day
14th
15th Spell Synthesis 2/day
16th
17th
18th
19th Spell Synthesis 3/day
20th True Theurge

Class Features
The following are the class features for the mystic theurge.
Weapon and Armour Proficiency
Mystic Theurges are proficient with the club, dagger, heavy crossbow, light crossbow, and quarterstaff, but not with any type of armour or shield. Armour interferes with a mystic theurge's movements, which can cause his arcane spells with somatic components to fail.
Spells
A mystic theurge casts both arcane and divine spells drawn from the cleric spell list and the sorcerer/wizard spell list. A mystic theurge must choose and prepare spells ahead of time. To prepare or cast a spell from the cleric spell list, a mystic theurge must have a wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. To prepare or cast a spell for the sorcerer/wizard spell list, a mystic theurge must have an intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a mystic theurge's spell is 10 + the spell level + the mystic theurge's intelligence or wisdom modifier (intelligence for spells from the sorcerer/wizard spell list, and wisdom for spells from the cleric spell list).
Like other spellcasters, a mystic theurge can cast only a certain amount of spells per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: Mystic Theurge. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day from the sorcerer/wizard spell list if he has a Intelligence score, and bonus spells per day from the cleric spell list if he has a high Wisdom score (see Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells).
A mystic theurge must spend 1 hour each day in quiet contemplation to regain his daily allotment of spells. Time spent resting has no effect on whether a mystic theurge can prepare spells. A mystic theurge may prepare and cast any spell on the cleric spell list and sorcerer/wizard spell list, provided that she can cast spells of that level, but he must choose which spells to prepare during her daily meditation.
Aura
A mystic theurge of a chaotic, evil, good, or lawful deity has a particularly powerful aura corresponding to the deity's alignment (see detect evil for details).
Theurgy
At 1st level, a mystic theurge gains Theurgy as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet its prerequisites.
Theurgy Domain
At 1st level, the mystic theurge gains the Arcane Beacon and Divine Vessel powers from the arcane and divine subdomains, respectively. They share the same daily usage (3 + Wisdom modifier per day).
Orisons/Cantrips
Mystic Theurge's can prepare a number of orisons/cantrips, or 0-level spells, each day, as noted on Table: Mystic Theurge under "Spells per day." These spells are treated like any other spell, but they are not expended when cast and may be used again.
Scribe Scroll
At 2nd level, a mystic theurge gains Scribe Scroll as a bonus feat.
Bonus Langauges
A mystic theurge's bonus language options include Draconic, Abyssal, Celestial, and Infernal (the languages of dragons and good, lawful evil, and chaotic evil outsiders, respectively). These choices are in addition to the bonus languages available to the character because of her race.
Hand of the Theurge
At 3rd level, you can cause your melee weapon to fly from your grasp and strike a foe before instantly returning to you. As a standard action, you can make a single attack using a melee weapon at a range of 30 feet. This attack is treated as a ranged attack with a thrown weapon, except that you add your Intelligence or Wisdom modifier on the attack roll instead of your Dexterity modifier, whichever one is higher (damage still relies on Strength). This ability cannot be used to perform a combat maneuver. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence or Wisdom modifier, whichever one is higher.
Combined Spells
At 4th level, when preparing your daily spell allotment, you may sacrifice lower level spell to prepare a higher level spell. When doing so, a mystic theurge sacrifices a number of spell levels equal to the new spell's level +1. You can sacrifice either arcane or divine spell slots (including bonus spell slots) when using this ability. You may use this ability once per day at 4th, and an additional time per day at 13th.
Magical Mastery
At 10th level, you can apply any one metamagic feat that you know to a spell you are about to cast. This does not alter the level of the spell or the casting time. You can use this ability once per day at 10th level and one additional time per day for every two mystic theurge levels you possess beyond 10th. Any time you use this ability to apply a metamagic feat that increases the spell level by more than 1, you must use an additional daily usage for each level above 1 that the feat adds to the spell. Even though this ability does not modify the spell's actual level, you cannot use this ability to cast a spell whose modified spell level would be above the level of the highest-level spell that you are capable of casting. You may instead expend two daily uses of this ability to use a targeted dispel magic effect as a melee touch attack.
Spell Synthesis
At 11th level, a mystic theurge can cast two spells, one from the cleric spell list and one from the sorcerer/wizard spell list, using one action. Both of the spells must have the same casting time. The mystic theurge can make any decisions concerning the spells independently. Any target affected by both of the spells takes a –2 penalty on saves made against each spell. The mystic theurge receives a +2 bonus on caster level checks made to overcome spell resistance with these two spells. A mystic theurge may use this ability once per day at 11th, and an additional time per day every 4 levels, to a maximum of 3 times per day at 19th.
True Theurge
At 20th level, you become a true master of both arcane and divine magic. You may use you Intelligence or Wisdom score to determine how both your arcane and divine spells work, whichever one is higher. This includes spell DC, concentration checks, and other variables that determine the effect of a cast spell. This also means that you may use your Intelligence score in place of your Wisdom score when determining what bonus spells you receive from the cleric spell list, and vice verse (Wisdom instead of your Intelligence to determine bonus spells from sorcerer/wizard spell list). In addition, when using your combined spells ability, it does not cost an extra spell level.

THINGS THAT I MIGHT CHANGE:
I want to keep Spell Synthesis the way it is, but I might change around Combined spells so that its 2/day at 12th and 3/day at 20th. Maybe/maybe not. The class seems strong enough already.
I changed Scribe Scroll so that you get it at 2nd level, so that you don't get 2 bonus feats at first, and Theurge is staying there for the foreseeable future. Might get Scribe Scroll at a later level even, or maybe not at all.
I've decided to give the Arcane Beacon and Divine Vessel powers a shared daily usage. I don't see a problem here, but if other do I might change it to separate daily uses. Might even get rid of it altogether if the class needs nerfing.
I don't know if it should get bonus feats at 5th, 10th and 15th and 20th (like a wizard). The class seems strong enough already.
I'm tossing around the idea of a Spellbook/Prayerbook, but I'm leaning away from giving the class one. Might weaken the class so that it's more balanced, though I probably won't give them one unless I really have to.
I don't know if I should give it a UMD bonus because I don't really see the class as being that kind of class. If I ever do give it a skill bonus it'll be knowledge arcana and/or religion, and/or spellcraft. I might even get rid of UMD as a class skill, because I don't really see the class being heavy magic device users, but that could just be me.
I don't know if I should give it spontaneous casting like a cleric (cure and inflict). The class seems strong enough already.

I hope you liked it. As a heads up, I won't have internet for a couple hours, so don't think I'm ignoring you or something if you comment on it within that time.


I hope I'm not too late or anything.
My MCA idea is a Barbarian / Monk mix, probably barbarian primary.
Basically the idea is that you mix the Ki Pool and the Rage abilities, and you'll end up with a Dragon Ball Z style fighter, with Rage being more akin to Kaio-ken or Super Saiyan. I'm planning on making this myself so hopefully when its time comes around I'll actually have some (hopefully decent) thoughts on what the MCA might be. If you need any sort of examples, this is kinda what I'm aiming for, but being MCA, it'll have more monk stuff in it.


So I imagine they would have a list of Pacts set up in a similar way to sorcerer bloodlines. As you said you would get spells, feats, powers, and most importantly your outsider companion. I would suggest getting bonus spells like how bloodlines and domains do it, giving you the bonus spells whenever you gains access to that spell level. Or you could give them spells more frequently, but maybe then they'd have a smaller spell list or something? Getting powers from your pact similar to a bloodline is a good idea. When choosing a pact your alignment would have to be within one step of the pact's alignment (Demon Pact=CE, Protean=CN, etc.), or something very similar.

I dislike the Spirit Binding and Pact summons abilites, why not just combine them and say that you can use planar ally, lesser on the type of outsider you have a pact with x number of times per day (or something like that)? And maybe at a later level it becomes planar ally? That seems much simpler. Maybe planar binding instead of planar ally, maybe. You did make a pact with them so planar ally might be the better option.

Though if you do want to have an ability like spirit binding you might want to do something like what I said above but with planar binding instead of planar ally. I'm thinking that, lets say, you get the planar ally, lesser ability at 6th (one level before clerics and oracles can get it). You can use it x number of times per day (or maybe 3 + cha bonus or something, I don't know just yet). This ability functions as Planar Ally, Lesser, except that the outsiders you summon don't require payment and do not need to be bargained, though they still only perform one task and the creature returns to its home plane after a number of [rounds/days or something. Haven't decided yet] per [caster level or class level or something]. You may only summon outsiders that are of the same type as your pact. At 10th level (maybe higher), this ability functions as planar ally. At x level (I'm thinking 8th, 10th or 12th), this ability can instead function as planar binding (, lesser?), but this consumes 2 daily uses. You may bind outsiders not of your pact type when using the ability this way.
Or something like that.
I'm thinking you would get planar ally, lesser at 6th, planar binding, lesser at 8th, planar ally at 10th and planar binding at 12th. So a simpler version of the ability might read:

[Name]
At 6th level, your pact allows you to call outsiders to your aid. This ability functions as planar ally, lesser, but you may only call outsiders that are the same type as your pact and only they only require half the normal payment [changed from none, because none might be too powerful]. At 8th level, you can bind outsiders to do your bidding. This functions as planar binding and consumes two daily uses of this ability. You may bind outsiders this way that are not the type that you have a pact with. At 10th level, when requesting aid from outsiders you have a pact with, this ability functions as planar ally, with both adjustments from this ability. At 12th level, when binding outsiders of any kind, this ability functions as planar binding. You may use this ability a number of times per day equal to your Charisma modifier [maybe more, maybe less, I dunno]. [Maybe have the advancements at later levels, and maybe even having planar ally, greater and planar binding, greater eventually.]

But if you really want something like spirit binding, give them an ability that works similar to the command undead feat but for outsiders, which just so happens to be very close to what you already have.

Anyway, it's a really cool class idea and I'd like to see what you do with it.

EDIT: Oh crap I forget that Summon Monster existed... err.. the summoning outsiders you have a pact with might work like that instead. That might work better.


So what your saying is resistance to x would make x deal non-lethal damage, right?

So then immunity wouldn't change (I hope), and things that already deal non-lethal damage that you have a resistance to would deal no damage I would think. Something like that? Could be nice. It's much much simpler, but you would need to figure out how higher and lower resistances work, because there are things that have a greater resistance to fire that ifrits, as an example. Maybe they just work like normal, as in resisting a certain amount of damage, on top of turning the damage into non-lethal damage? And what if something is immune to non-lethal damage?

And as Ipslore pointed out, non-lethal damage can still kill you, but if you played by these rules it would have to deal just over twice your hp (roughly) in damage.

Going back to the higher and lower resistances, would you do them as normal, but just with the non-lethal damage part? Maybe it only applies to when it does lethal damage? You'll need to figure out how it works though. The idea seems interesting though.


Ok here it is. Things in square brackets [] are things I have yet to add in or are just my thoughts on what I might change. The "class" is basically what "class" an eidolon would be in an adventure. I would say that only eidolons can take it and eidolons have to take it.

Merry Christmas:

(And yes, I will be using this in one of my adventures (hopefully))

Eidlon
[Insert Flavour text here]
[Insert Role here]
Alignement: Any
Hit Die: d10
Starting Wealth: 1d6 x 10 (average 35gp.) / None?
Requirements: Race: Eidolon[?] [This would be a given methinks, may get rid of for less text and stuff]
Class Skills
The eidolon's class skills are Bluff (Cha), Craft (Int), Fly (Dex), Knowledge (planes) (Int), Perception (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), and Stealth (Dex). In addition, at 1st level, the eidolon can choose 4 additional skills to be class skills.
Skill Ranks per Level: 6 + Int modifier.

Tabel: Eidolon
Level | Base Attack Bonus | Good Saves | Bad Saves | Speical | Armour Bonus | Str/Dex Bonus | Evolution Pool | Max Attacks
1 | +1 | +2 | +0 | Darkvision, multiattack[?], native | +0 | +0 | 3 | 3
2 | +2 | +3 | +0 | Evasion | +2 | +1 | 4 | 3
3 | +3 | +3 | +1 | - | +2 | +1 | 7 | 4
4 | +4 | +4 | +1 | - | +4 | +2 | 8 | 4
5 | +5 | +4 | +1 | - | +4 | +2 | 9 | 4
6 | +6 | +5 | +2 | - | +6 | +3 | 11 | 4
7 | +7 | +5 | +2 | Multiattack[?] | +6 | +3 | 13 | 5
8 | +8 | +6 | +2 | - | +8 | +4 | 14 | 5
9 | +9 | +6 | +3 | - | +8 | +4 | 16 | 5
10 | +10 | +7 | +3 | - | +10 | +5 | 17 | 5
11 | +11 | +7 | +3 | Improved evasion | +10 | +5 | 19 | 6
12 | +12 | +8 | +4 | - | +10[12] | +5[6] | 21 | 6
13 | +13 | +8 | +4 | - | +12 | +6 | 22 | 6
14 | +14 | +9 | +4 | - | +14 | +7 | 23 | 6
15 | +15 | +9 | +5 | - | +14 | +7 | 26 | 7
16 | +16 | +10 | +5 | - | +16 | +8 | 27 | 7
17 | +17 | +10 | +5 | - | +16 | +8 | 28 | 7
18 | +18 | +11 | +6 | - | +18 | +9 | 31 | 8[7]
19 | +19 | +11 | +6 | - | +18 | +9 | 32 | 8
20 | +20 | +12 | +6 | - | +20 | +10 | 33 | 8

Class Features
The following are class features for the eidolon

Weapon and Armour Proficiency
Eidolons are proficient with only their natural attacks and not proficient with any armour or shields.

BAB
Eidolons do not gain additional attacks using their natural weapons for a high base attack bonus.

Good/Bad Saves
An eidolon possesses two good saving throws and one bad saving throw, determined by the eidolon's base form.

Armour Bonus
This bonus may be split between an armour bonus and a natural armour bonus. This number is modified by the eidolon's base form and some options available through it's evolution pool. [An eidolon cannot wear armour of any kind, as the armour interferes with the summoner's connection to the eidolon, but since it doesn't have a summoner, this rule might not apply.]

Str/Dex Bonus
Add this modifier to the eidolon's Strength and Dexterity scores, as determined by its base form. Some options available through the eidolon's evolution pool might modify these scores.

Evolution Pool
The value given in this column is the total number of points in the eidolon’s evolution pool. Points from this pool can be spent on a wide variety of modifications and upgrades that add new abilities, attacks, and powers to the eidolon. Whenever the eidolon gains a level, the number in this pool increases and the eidolon can spend these points to change their abilities. These choices are not set. The eidolon can change them whenever it gains a level.

Max. Attacks
This indicates the maximum number of natural attacks that the eidolon is allowed to possess at the given level. If the eidolon is at its maximum, it cannot take evolutions that grant additional natural attacks. This does not include attacks made with weapons.

Multiattack
An eidolon gains Multiattack as a bonus feat if it has 3 or more natural attacks and does not already have that feat. If it does not have the requisite 3 or more natural attacks (or it is reduced to less than 3 attacks), the eidolon instead gains a second attack with one of its natural weapons, albeit at a –5 penalty. If the eidolon later gains 3 or more natural attacks, it loses this additional attack and instead gains Multiattack.

Native
An eidolon gains the Native subtype if it does not already have it.

Darkvision (Ex)
An eidolon has darkvision out to a range of 60 feet.

Evasion (Ex)
At 2nd level and higher, if an eidolon is subjected to an attack that normally allows a Reflex save for half damage, it takes no damage if it makes a successful saving throw.

Improved Evasion (Ex)
At 11th level and higher, when subjected to an attack that allows a Reflex saving throw for half damage, an eidolon takes no damage if it makes a successful saving throw and only half damage if the saving throw fails.

Eidolon Base Forms
Each eidolon has one of three (four if using Ultimate Magic) base forms that determines its starting size, speed, AC, attacks, and ability scores. All natural attacks are made using the eidolon’s full base attack bonus unless otherwise noted (such as in the case of secondary attacks). Eidolon attacks add the eidolon’s Strength modifier to the damage roll, unless it is its only attack, in which case it adds 1-1/2 times its Strength modifier. These base forms also note any free evolutions that base form possesses. The bonuses from these free evolutions are already factored into the starting statistics. Alternatively, any one of these base forms can be used to make a Small eidolon. If the eidolon is Small, it gains a +2 bonus to its Dexterity score. It also takes a –4 penalty to its Strength and a –2 penalty to its Constitution. It also gains a +1 size bonus to its AC and attack rolls, a –1 penalty to its CMB and CMD scores, a +2 bonus on its Fly skill checks, and a +4 bonus on its Stealth skill checks. Reduce the damage of all of its attacks by one step (1d6 becomes 1d4, 1d4 becomes 1d3). If this choice is made, the eidolon can be made Medium whenever the eidolon can change its evolution pool.
Ultimate Magic introduced a fourth base form: aquatic. The aquatic base form follows all of the normal rules for base forms.

[Insert Base Forms here]

Evolutions
Each eidolon receives a number of evolution points that can be spent to give the eidolon new abilities, powers, and other upgrades. These abilities, called evolutions, can be changed whenever the eidolon gains a new level, but they are otherwise set. Some evolutions require that the eidolon have a specific base form or the eidolon be of a specific level before they can be chosen. A number of evolutions grant the eidolon additional natural attacks. Natural attacks listed as primary are made using the eidolon’s full base attack bonus and add the eidolon’s Strength modifier on damage rolls. Natural attacks listed as secondary are made using the eidolon’s base attack bonus – 5 and add 1/2 the eidolon’s Strength modifier on damage rolls (if positive). If the eidolon only has a single natural attack, the attack is made using its full base attack bonus and it adds 1-1/2 times its Strength modifier on damage rolls made with that attack, regardless of the attack’s type.
Evolutions are grouped by their cost in evolution points. Evolution points cannot be saved. All of the points must be spent whenever the eidolon gains a level. Unless otherwise noted, each evolution can only be selected once.

[Insert Evolutions here. (Almost) Every mention of the word "Summoner" is replaced with "Eidolon".]

[Maybe show the eidolon models here, so that players can easily base their eidolon around a specific thing, that's if they want to though.]

[I'm thinking that an eidolon can do one hour of uninterrupted meditation to change its evolution points, and at each level it can change its form. Or maybe it can do a day of uninterrupted meditation to change its form and evolution points?]
[Might change things around a bit like making the armour bonus improve to +12 at 11th level and str/dex to +6 at 11th so it's tidier, and have an actual rhythm to how the abilities advance. Might leave evolution points as is (for now). If I do change them it might be 2 evolution points per level or something similar. Might also tidy max attacks so that 18th is 7.]
[Will probably change evolution points to have more of a rhythm, like 2/4/6/8/9/11/13/15/17/18… or something like that.]

Hope you liked it! And I may or may not make a thread about this if I revisit it or something. Might just even make one today or something.


Ok I'm awake now, will change soon. I'll take advice from both of, and I'll make it less OP. I was just combining wizard and cleric (basically), I hadn't really balanced it in any way yet and I will post what I come up with (which will most likely contain both your advices). Thanks!


Now that you bring it up, I don't know either... Well if we have two threads that means twice the thinking, r-right? Right?

Now this time I will hopefully get to sleep :/


Umm, wow. Thanks. Those are really damn good ideas. I mean really good ideas. Bloody hell they are going straight into the class. But, I'm going to bed now. I'll add in the stuff tomorrow and post it here when I hop on my computer. See you then!


AnnonyingOrange said wrote:
* slash the domain, it is pointless the extra spells seem to make it pointless to be a wizard if you can just be a cleric and wizard rolled into one.

I'll slash it, for now. If it becomes weaker down the line (unlikely), I might add it or something very similar back in. But for now, I agree we probably don't need it.

AnnonyingOrange said wrote:
* Why simple weapons, just keep wizard proficiencies.

That.. is a good point. Will do.

AnnonyingOrange said wrote:
* Decrease the number of spells by 1 each spell level.

Like I said before, the diminished spellcasting thing (or something like it). This will probably be for the best.

AnnonyingOrange said wrote:
* Give bonus spells for both wisdom and intelligence, bonus spells for wisdom are divine spells drawn from the cleric list, bonus spells for intelligence daw from the wizard spell list.

That sounds better.

AnnonyingOrange said wrote:
* Add powers and bonus feats similar to the universalist wizard, as a decent starting point.

That sounds good. Maybe you can choose between having the universalist arcane school or the magic domain without its bonus spells (and/or it's subdomains as well)? Possibly both? Maybe/maybe not. Probably not both...

I don't know what you mean by "bonus feats" though. Do you mean like Wizard bonus feats?


So if we were to do that, then here are the things about 15 HD on the Eidolon page (just so you don't have to think it yourself. It's quicker for everyone this way). I'm doing as an extension of the eidolon table, not as just a HD increase thing.
.
.
.
Summoner Level | HD | BAB | Good Saves | Bad Saves | Skills | Feats | Armour Bonus | Str/Dex Bonus | Evolution Pool | Max Attacks | Special
21 | 16 | +16 | 10 | 5 | 64 | 8 | 16 | 8 | 27 | 7 | Ability Score increase
22 | 17 | +17 | 10 | 5 | 68 | 9 | 18 | 9 | 28 | 7 | -
23 | 18 | +18 | 11 | 6 | 72 | 9 | 18 | 9 | 29 | 7 | -
24 | 18 | +18 | 11 | 6 | 72 | 9 | 18 | 9 | 31 | 8 | -
25 | 19 | +19 | 11 | 6 | 76 | 10 | 19 | 10 | 32 | 8 | -
26 | 20 | +20 | 12 | 6 | 80 | 10 | 19 | 10 | 33 | 8 | Ability Score increase

I included the two 18 HD levels so that people could see which one is more balanced, though, the difference is only 2 evolution points, so I'd probably go with the higher one.
Hell, I might just write this up as a class-like thing, might be easier that way. It's just full progression BAB, normal "good" and "bad" saves, it's skill ranks are 6+int per HD(level), normal odd-level feats like every single class, and normal stat increases. It's only "Class abilities" equivalents are the armour bonus through to the special things. Yeah, I'll probably write a full 20 level class-thing to get rid of some numbers.


^ This ^

Just progress it in the same way it progresses itself. Maybe use HD as character level? Or you could do average-party-level=HD like Threeshades said.
But that does also present the issue of which level-HD thing you choose, like do you choose effective summoner level 19th or 20th when you have a 15 HD Eidolon? I would probably choose the lowest one if the Eidolon needs nerfing or the highest one if it needs buffing.

I might actually see if I can play one next time my character dies or something, might be fun. If I can you can be sure I'll post results!


I've thought about creating this for a while, and this thread finally made me do it. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's OP right now and I'd like to know if there's any way I can make it better. Also if you have the time you might want go check out that thread because s/he also wants help making a mystic theurge class. Anyway:

Mystic Theurge

[Insert Flavour Text here.]

[Insert Role here.]

Alignment: A mystic theurge's alignment must be within one step of his deity's, if any. They are usually neutral.

Starting Wealth:

Class Skills
The mystic theurge's class skills are Appraise (Int), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Fly (Dex), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (all) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Use Magic Device(?) (Cha).

Skill Ranks per Level: 2 + Int modifier.

Table: Mystic Theurge
Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special (Spells per Day) 0th 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
1 +0 +0 +0 +2 Arcane Bond, magic domain, orisons, Scribe Scroll 3 1+1 - - - - - - - -
2 +1 +0 +0 +3 4 2+1 - - - - - - - -
3 +1 +1 +1 +3 4 2+1 1+1 - - - - - - -
4 +2 +1 +1 +4 4 3+1 2+1 - - - - - - -
5 +2 +1 +1 +4 4 3+1 2+1 1+1 - - - - - -
6 +3 +2 +2 +5 4 3+1 3+1 2+1 - - - - - -
7 +3 +2 +2 +5 4 4+1 3+1 2+1 1+1 - - - - -
8 +4 +2 +2 +6 4 4+1 3+1 3+1 2+1 - - - - -
9 +4 +3 +3 +6 4 4+1 4+1 3+1 2+1 1+1 - - - -
10 +5 +3 +3 +7 4 4+1 4+1 3+1 3+1 2+1 - - - -
11 +5 +3 +3 +7 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 2+1 1+1 - - -
12 +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 3+1 2+1 - - -
13 +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 2+1 1+1 - -
14 +7/+2 +4 +4 +9 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 3+1 2+1 - -
15 +7/+2 +5 +5 +9 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 2+1 1+1 -
16 +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 3+1 2+1 -
17 +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 2+1 1+1
18 +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 3+1 2+1
19 +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 3+1
20 +10/+5 +6 +6 +12 Spell Synthesis 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1

Class Features
The following are the class features for the mystic theurge.

Weapon and Armour Proficiency
Mystic Theurge's are proficient with all simple weapons, but not with any type of armour or shield. Armour interferes with a mystic theurge's movements, which can cause his spells with somatic components to fail.

Spells
A mystic theurge casts both arcane and divine spells drawn from the cleric spell list and the sorcerer/wizard spell list. A mystic theurge must choose and prepare spells ahead of time. To learn(?), prepare, or cast a spell from the cleric spell list, a mystic theurge must have a wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. To learn(?), prepare, or cast a spell for the sorcerer/wizard spell list, a mystic theurge must have an intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a mystic theurge's spell is 10 + the spell level + the mystic theurge's intelligence or wisdom modifier (intelligence for spells from the sorcerer/wizard spell list, and wisdom for spells from the cleric spell list).
Like other spellcasters, a mystic theurge can cast only a certain amount of spells per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: Mystic Theurge. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high intelligence or wisdom score, whichever is highest (see Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells).

A mystic theurge must spend 1 hour each day [studying his spell book in quiet contemplation or supplication] to regain his daily allotment of spells. Time spent resting has no effect on whether a mystic theurge can prepare spells. A mystic theurge may prepare and cast any spell on the cleric spell list and sorcerer/wizard spell list [if he doesn't have a spellbook], provided that she can cast spells of that level, but he must choose which spells to prepare during her daily meditation [and/or study].

[Not sure if they get a spellbook or do it like a cleric…]

Magic Domain
[Not sure if they actually get a domain.] At 1st level, a mystic theurge gains the Magic Domain and both the Arcane and Divine subdomain, but you lose both the hand of the acolyte and the dispelling touch abilities and gain both the arcane beacon and divine vessel abilities. If you have a deity, it must be one who has the Magic domain. The mystic theurge's effective cleric level is equal to his mystic theurge level. [Might instead do it as you get either the arcane beacon or the divine vessel ability, or you can jut choose to have the base domain or the base and one of the subdomains or something]

Arcane Bond
[Not sure if they actually get an arcane bond. Maybe something similar?] At 1st level, mystic theurge's form a powerful bond with an object or a creature. This ability functions like the wizard's ability of the same name. A mystic theurge's effective wizard level is equal to [half or something?] his mystic theurge level [(minimum 1)].

Orisons/Cantrips
Mystic Theurge's can prepare a number of orisons/cantrips, or 0-level spells, each day, as noted on Table: Mystic Theurge under "Spells per day." These spells are treated like any other spell, but they are not expended when cast and may be used again.

Scribe Scroll
At 1st level, a mystic theurge gains Scribe Scroll as a bonus feat.

Bonus Langauges
A mystic theurge's bonus language options include Abyssal, Celestial, Infernal, and Draconic (the languages of good, lawful evil, and chaotic evil outsiders, and dragons, respectively). These choices are in addition to the bonus languages available to the character because of her race.

[Not sure if they should get bonus feats. Probably not.]

[Combined Spells will not get added as it is right now because it doesn't work with the class at this current point in time.]

Spell Synthesis
At 20th level, a mystic theurge can cast two spells, one from his cleric spell list and one from his sorcerer/wizard spell list, using one action. Both of the spells must have the same casting time. The mystic theurge can make any decisions concerning the spells independently. Any target affected by both of the spells takes a -2 penalty on saves made against each spell. The mystic theurge receives a +2 bonus on caster level checks made to overcome spell resistance with these two spells. A mystic theurge may use this ability once per day. [Maybe have it as just two spells at the same time? Other than that, it falls into the same hole as combined spells because of how spells work for this class.]

Things in square brackets [] are like editors notes or whatever. They're just things I might add in or get rid of, not the actual classes things.

I'd like to know what you guys think. Any improvements you might have would be much appreciated.


Okay! Here it is! A draftamajig of what it might be. Hopefully you will like it.

Mystic Theurge

[Insert Flavour Text here.]

[Insert Role here.]

Alignment: A mystic theurge's alignment must be within one step of his deity's, if any. They are usually neutral.

Starting Wealth:

Class Skills
The mystic theurge's class skills are Appraise (Int), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Fly (Dex), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (all) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Use Magic Device(?) (Cha).

Skill Ranks per Level: 2 + Int modifier.

Table: Mystic Theurge
Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special (Spells per Day) 0th 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
1 +0 +0 +0 +2 Arcane Bond, magic domain, orisons, Scribe Scroll 3 1+1 - - - - - - - -
2 +1 +0 +0 +3 4 2+1 - - - - - - - -
3 +1 +1 +1 +3 4 2+1 1+1 - - - - - - -
4 +2 +1 +1 +4 4 3+1 2+1 - - - - - - -
5 +2 +1 +1 +4 4 3+1 2+1 1+1 - - - - - -
6 +3 +2 +2 +5 4 3+1 3+1 2+1 - - - - - -
7 +3 +2 +2 +5 4 4+1 3+1 2+1 1+1 - - - - -
8 +4 +2 +2 +6 4 4+1 3+1 3+1 2+1 - - - - -
9 +4 +3 +3 +6 4 4+1 4+1 3+1 2+1 1+1 - - - -
10 +5 +3 +3 +7 4 4+1 4+1 3+1 3+1 2+1 - - - -
11 +5 +3 +3 +7 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 2+1 1+1 - - -
12 +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 3+1 2+1 - - -
13 +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 2+1 1+1 - -
14 +7/+2 +4 +4 +9 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 3+1 2+1 - -
15 +7/+2 +5 +5 +9 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 2+1 1+1 -
16 +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 3+1 2+1 -
17 +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 2+1 1+1
18 +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 3+1 2+1
19 +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 3+1
20 +10/+5 +6 +6 +12 Spell Synthesis 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1

Class Features
The following are the class features for the mystic theurge.

Weapon and Armour Proficiency
Mystic Theurge's are proficient with all simple weapons, but not with any type of armour or shield. Armour interferes with a mystic theurge's movements, which can cause his spells with somatic components to fail.

Spells
A mystic theurge casts both arcane and divine spells drawn from the cleric spell list and the sorcerer/wizard spell list. A mystic theurge must choose and prepare spells ahead of time. To learn(?), prepare, or cast a spell from the cleric spell list, a mystic theurge must have a wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. To learn(?), prepare, or cast a spell for the sorcerer/wizard spell list, a mystic theurge must have an intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a mystic theurge's spell is 10 + the spell level + the mystic theurge's intelligence or wisdom modifier (intelligence for spells from the sorcerer/wizard spell list, and wisdom for spells from the cleric spell list).
Like other spellcasters, a mystic theurge can cast only a certain amount of spells per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: Mystic Theurge. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high intelligence or wisdom score, whichever is highest (see Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells).

A mystic theurge must spend 1 hour each day [studying his spell book in quiet contemplation or supplication] to regain his daily allotment of spells. Time spent resting has no effect on whether a mystic theurge can prepare spells. A mystic theurge may prepare and cast any spell on the cleric spell list and sorcerer/wizard spell list [if he doesn't have a spellbook], provided that she can cast spells of that level, but he must choose which spells to prepare during her daily meditation [and/or study].

[Not sure if they get a spellbook or do it like a cleric…]

Magic Domain
[Not sure if they actually get a domain.] At 1st level, a mystic theurge gains the Magic Domain and both the Arcane and Divine subdomain, but you lose both the hand of the acolyte and the dispelling touch abilities and gain both the arcane beacon and divine vessel abilities. If you have a deity, it must be one who has the Magic domain. The mystic theurge's effective cleric level is equal to his mystic theurge level. [Might instead do it as you get either the arcane beacon or the divine vessel ability, or you can jut choose to have the base domain or the base and one of the subdomains or something]

Arcane Bond
[Not sure if they actually get an arcane bond. Maybe something similar?] At 1st level, mystic theurge's form a powerful bond with an object or a creature. This ability functions like the wizard's ability of the same name. A mystic theurge's effective wizard level is equal to [half or something?] his mystic theurge level [(minimum 1)].

Orisons/Cantrips
Mystic Theurge's can prepare a number of orisons/cantrips, or 0-level spells, each day, as noted on Table: Mystic Theurge under "Spells per day." These spells are treated like any other spell, but they are not expended when cast and may be used again.

Scribe Scroll
At 1st level, a mystic theurge gains Scribe Scroll as a bonus feat.

Bonus Langauges
A mystic theurge's bonus language options include Abyssal, Celestial, Infernal, and Draconic (the languages of good, lawful evil, and chaotic evil outsiders, and dragons, respectively). These choices are in addition to the bonus languages available to the character because of her race.

[Not sure if they should get bonus feats. Probably not.]

[Combined Spells will not get added as it is right now because it doesn't work with the class at this current point in time.]

Spell Synthesis
At 20th level, a mystic theurge can cast two spells, one from his cleric spell list and one from his sorcerer/wizard spell list, using one action. Both of the spells must have the same casting time. The mystic theurge can make any decisions concerning the spells independently. Any target affected by both of the spells takes a -2 penalty on saves made against each spell. The mystic theurge receives a +2 bonus on caster level checks made to overcome spell resistance with these two spells. A mystic theurge may use this ability once per day. [Maybe have it as just two spells at the same time? Other than that, it falls into the same hole as combined spells because of how spells work for this class.]

Things in square brackets [] are like editors notes or whatever. They're me typing things, not the actual classes things.


Well, I get the general idea though I would like it if you just tidied it up a bit. It's still a really cool class though. I'm actually planning on making a druid archetype, or even a separate class similar to this, but instead of using evolution/"mutant" points (it may use them eventually, maaaybe) it focuses on all the different shapechanging spells, like animal, elemental, vermin and plant shape, monstrous physique (maybe) and form of the dragon (hopefully I'm not missing any. I'm still considering undead anatomy though. It'll end up as shapechange though methinks).

Anyway, I hope you balance this well and finish it off, because I'd very much like to see how it turns out.


Well you could make some sort of wizard archetype which, I dunno, gets rid of your bonus feats but allows you to evolve/make you familiars better or something. That might be fun, and it sound cool to me. Sure you'd need to limit EP's, but you will most likely have to limit what evolutions your familiar can get, maybe caping how many EP's you can spend on an evolution, or maybe limit which evolutions, or both!

As for animal companions, this one might be more tough. This would be a druid archetype. You would get rid of the spontaneous casting probably and some other things. You would have to limit which kinds of evolutions it can take, so limiting it to the "animal" ones (bite, burrow, poison, keen scent, and other things that animals and even magical beasts can do), but not allow it to take things like Undead Appearance and Incorporeal Form, those kinda "unnatural" things.

But I would like to know why you're into eidolons all of a sudden.


Master of the Dark Triad wrote:

I actually like two spell lists, each with its own stat.

Should I just take the wizard and cleric lists as they are? That seems really powerful. What, if anything, should I leave out?

Well, it might be powerful but they'd share the same spells per day at least. Maybe you just get less spells to choose from each day or something. Like diminished spellcasting? Might not fully balance it out but at least it's a start.


Slow BAB progression.
Maybe two full 9 level spell lists? You are creating a full spellcasting class. Or the better option might be it's own spell list like what AnnoyingOrange said, which will probably work better.
I'm thinking that maybe your highest mental score is your primary one (I don't know how good that would be)? Or if you do a dual spell list thing you could do something similar to the Sacred Thaumaturge where you have two (sorta) casting stats.
Probably 2 maybe 4 + Int skills ranks per level.
Good Will, poor Fort and Ref.
Other than that, you might want to steal (if you haven't already) the mystic theurge abilities because they fit pretty well with the idea (who knew right?).
For some extra stuff, you'd probably get a domain and a familiar/bonded object, probably combine the wizard's and cleric's bonus languages abilities, no channel energy or arcane school, they would get whatever you would call their version of orisons or cantrips. They'd probably get scribe scroll as a bonus feat. Maybe/maybe not get the bonus feats like a wizard, and I don't know what to do with spontaneous casting either. Chaotic/Evil/Good/Lawful spells is a must have likely, and I'm not sure if the class should or shouldn't have a spellbook :/
Mind you all that stuffs just wizard and cleric stuff and you probably shouldn't limit yourself by just taking abilities and other things from those classes.
Ehh, I'm going to make a table and a character using this and see how good or bad it is right now. I'll come back with results (I hope).


For those who don't know, a Ki Mystic is a poorly written Monk Archetype which may or may not give you another Ki pool. There's been some discussion as to how it actually works.

I'm going to try and fix it up myself, but first I'd like to know if anyone else has houseruled it and how they did it, just as guidelines so I don't make it too weak or OP.