The Expansionist

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veebles wrote:

hmmm...

lemme see if I've got this right over the course of this very short topic...

old school camp: restrict class access based on race
new old school camp: restrict class access based on race, cultural variants
realist camp: restrict class access based on culture, cultural variants, class bonus based on sub-race
new school camp: any class, racial class bonus, cultural variants
alpha camp: any class, bonus for archtypes, penalized for multi-classing or taking a PrC
beta camp: any class, penalized for multi-classing or taking a PrC
omega camp: any class, no bonus/penalty, new zero the caffeine free flavourless diet rpg
Y school camp: why bother? why argue? why not? why even use dice?
dreamer camp: gimme, gimme, gimme, more not less, more, more, more, don't care what just more
power tools camp: my drow half-dragon thief/assassin/paladin/ranger better have an "I win" button

did I miss any? :D

Holier-than-thou camp: And that's why I play <insert non-d20 based game here>!


What psionics is to me? I view psionics as a magic system, but unlike Arcane (which often focuses on arcane gestures, formulae, etc.) or Divine (praying to some deity, divine concept), psionics turns inward. A practitioner of the psionic arts seeks perfection within the self, so, much like an aesthetic monk, these folks learn to "know thyself" to the point that they condition the reality around them. But this is my point of view, which would mean less of a "wilder" class. I just don't think some should be born with the inherent knowledge of themselves. In sum: Psionics is "subjective reality", arcane and divine are "objective reality".

Dealbreaker? As I've never played psionics, nor have I had a player request to play a psion, I cannot offer anything on this. I, however, do like having some alternative options, or "reinterpretations", so by all means, as long as it proves balanced, I'd purchase a psionics book for PFRPG.


Remco Sommeling wrote:

Oddball or not I like to keep some kind of mechanic in place to stick to the current racial preferences, for me personally it adds flavor to the races as a whole, from my perspective as a DM the occasional 'oddball' character is fun, but a whole party of oddballs conflicts with my sense of 'realism'.

Maybe there should be more than one possible option you can pick from, reflecting your groups style of play, just like there isn't a set rule for 'rolling scores'.

personally I like to give my players some slight encouragement towards their races traditional preferences, but I realize some groups have fun with parties consisting almost exclusively of oddball characters.

Others have mentioned it already, but such things are subjective, are they not? Especially with home-brew campaign settings. I ponder a "nature versus nurture" concept when it comes to fantasy worlds. What part makes them favor a class over another? Genetics, environment, or societal upbringing (in isolation, hence the proclivity to choose a career path).

If there is a "favored class" system, I think it should be more of a sidebar than slapped in with a race. Here's where the character's "people" come from, and how they typically behave. As such, they'll enforce certain skills and abilities, consciously or not, that bleed through to the character no matter what path they choose in life... provided they were a part of that society growing up.

Maybe, instead of a specific favored class (or two), perhaps a favored group of classes based on the level of civilization the races achieved in isolation. Maybe based on Physical, Divine, and Arcane lines. An orcish-blooded person might have come from a "Tribal" background, and would then be inclined to have "Barbarian, Druid, Sorcerer" favored classes, based on the lack of formal education, no writing system per se, and no fully established religious philosophy dedicated to concepts outside the natural world. An "Urbanized" race, one that has banded together since the dawn of time, and has since formed a network of cities and agricultural propensities, would have Fighter, Cleric, Wizard as favored classes, due to having long traditions of military academies, organized religions, and universities with dedicated arcane research traditions. Or maybe an in-between, one that has integrated into the natural world, but still strives to innovate, while not disrupting the flow of the world, maybe an "Steward" society, would have Ranger, Druid, Bard as favored classes. These are just my first thoughts on the matter.

Then I think the mere fact that the players are adventurers, and not your typical drudge in society to begin with, kind of allows for people to break from norms. Whether they were exiled form their people, or grew up on the mean streets, regardless of their racial background, would make the character favor a certain profession over another. What mechanic, however, do we use?

It can be a headache when you want players to be different, and for identity reasons, people want to be different from the norm. The guy sagas are chanted for centuries about. I know as a game-master it can be difficult balancing social continuities with player desires to be unique. I'm not sure a mechanic should be the way if you, as a GM, want your players to come from the backgrounds proscribed in your campaign setting. And players should realize that pushing the envelope too far would, realistically, result in something bad for the character if they do, in fact, go ahead with the idea for the half-illithid troll wererat character. You are that, but the people [likely justifiably so] FEAR such a thing, and that waving your arms and going, "I'm a good guy! I'm a good guy! Honest!" may result in the character's death at the hands of an angry mob of "normal" people.

Just throwing idea-seeds out there, and looking for inspiration. Thanks for your patience and discussion. :)


Howdy all. New poster here. Printed and bound the Beta version a few months ago and have been cruelly subjecting my players to it. They've actually been very, very appreciative of the rules set, with very few complaints... but anyway...

Druid vs. Cleric?

My vote would be for Druid. I don't necessarily see Druids as protectors of any kind, just mystics that seek to understand nature, and the various roles within. Being shunned by two societies, which the half-orc is comprised of. I see a more "totemic" shaman type, with how the individual half-orc views himself. Is s/he a predator? Does he relish in the hunt, knowing that he's doing nature's job of culling the herds? And if it actually keeps the "balance", so be it.

Maybe it's the whole "semantics" thing. People have their own definition of "druid" that evokes certain core concepts. The term druid itself kind of grates me, as I think it's a culturally-specific term (as bard does the same), so I tended to use the word shaman instead (until the Unnameable Company came out with the Spirit Shaman class). But, as Druid has always been a mainstay core class, keep it in. Though I think adding a kind of totemic feat path for wild shape and other abilities would be a rather interesting touch, especially for a more "wildman" character.

As an aside... I've been reading somewhere that Orcs are actually from Etruscan (Italian) legend, and are the servants of the underworld deity of the early peoples there named, of all things, Orcus. The orcs were essentially boogeymen sent to punish those who are really bad, sending them to the afterlife so that Orcus can give them an eternal punishment. I think having a sub-race of truly evil orcs and half-orcs with a favored class Sorcerer (with like, a free Spell Focus [Necromancy] feat for the race). In my settings, I made orcs like that, until I got a hold of Dragon Compendium, and then I made the Death Master the favored class (as it dealt with Orcus specifically). I wonder if Paizo will be releasing an update of those base classes from that book. I found them quirky and entertaining (especially the Mountebank, for some reason).