Falantrius's page

Hmmm...

Might want to change the thread title if you're not asking for funding.

Sadly 'kickstarter' has kind of had it's meaning absorbed by online funding attempts.

Ill change it if I could figure out HOW to do that...

Falantrius wrote:

d) >> Yes - cosmetic changes for Doors, windows, items I can drop in rooms, library of furniture, torches, etc to drag and drop into the maps I load. For walls or floors, is it stone, is it wood, what color of wood, maybe the floor is marble, etc.

OK I understand know.

For this case I can recommend the Moulinette packs and modules. It's a HUGE pack of many different assets to use in your foundry.
Obs.: The Moulinette is so huge that it was the reason that I considered that $60 for the oficial tokens was too expensive IMO.
[/b]

Good suggestions - for the most part we are playing at the table and I am using Foundry for the ON TABLE MAP and display to the characters at the table - so all is good. Monitor is built into the table so I think we will be good. I might have to optimize the "client" PC in the table - but as a DM I have the DM Monitor and the TABLE "Client"

I just want to get started creating with Foundry and see how it compares to some other tools I've been using.

Thanks

Here are some modules that were recommended to me:

Dice so Nice
GM Screen
FXMaster
Lazy Money
Drag Ruler
Midi QoL

Pretty sure the PDF importer module only works on specific PATHFINDER 2e modules (the ones from before Paizo started making there own). It won't do anything with some random AD&D 2nd Edition PDF. So you'll need to export all the maps as image files and then build the scenes by hand. I suggest checking youtube for some getting started videos on scene creation.

I have an AD&D 2.0 Module - that I am converting to pathfinder. I have it all in PDFs with hi res maps jpgs AND I am just going to create all the actors and drop monsters from the bestiary in. Lastly, all locations and places - I am going to lift and set in Golaria. Thats the plan. Plus I am change a number of the encounters/scenes as I like to be creative.

Demorome wrote:

For b) you can just grab the official paid module to save yourself some time: https://paizo.com/products/btq02eat?FoundryVTT-Pathfinder-2E-Tokens-Bestiar y

I h8ghly recommend this suggestion! Some of the best quality tokens anywhere and automagically handles 95% of your monster art needs!

Purchased - Thanks.

a) Strange, the PF2e module already populates the item compendium with all available items from all official released books. Maybe your installation is broken or maybe you are searching in wrong place. Are you searching in compendium browser?

I also suggest you to install the Quick Insert module. This allow so search anything from the game database with a simply ctrl+space an open it for details or drag to someplay that you want to drag.

b) This is the main problem of foundry. Due the creatures images are copyrighted and there's no special permission from Paizo do add them to the system module the are blank.

To workaround this I suggest you to install the Tokenizer module and get the creatures images from AoN on demand (when you add the creature to your game as actors). Usually you can simply copy the image link from AoN and add it as Avatar and then "convert" it to be a token.
There's also possible to add them to the monsters imagens database directly via Token Variant Art module but the process to get all creatures images from AoN is very complex and too bandwidth demanding. Honestly I done it after once only and it's too much work and doesn't worth because you still needs to use Tokenizer to manually add then as tokens. It's just avoids you to open the AoN to search the image to search for it inside your own foundry and usually is more easily to search for it in foundry than in the module.

c) Essential, of-course not. But if you are trying to play an pre-made adventure that you are able to import via module this will save a lot of time. If not, if your are making your own adventure there's no use for them at all.

d) I don't understand what you want here. You are trying to cosmetic change the doors image? If yes this is...

a) Probably due to my unfamiliarity but I was under the upper right menu for ITEMS - it shows Compendium Browser at the bottom. When I bring that up - nothing is there. Finally figured out that you have actually CLICK one of the headers in the blue bar like EQUIPMENT for items to start showing. Installed the add on - thanks

b) >>Installed - I have a library over thousands of amazing tokens from before Roll20, Fantasy Grounds, etc. but was just trying to find maybe a directory I could just dump them in and use and select them.

c) Trying to write my own from the ground up. I have the maps, dialog and everything I need - but need to LOAD it into Foundry and cut and paste from my PDFs. Then I just have to add all the Scenes and Actors.

d) >> Yes - cosmetic changes for Doors, windows, items I can drop in rooms, library of furniture, torches, etc to drag and drop into the maps I load. For walls or floors, is it stone, is it wood, what color of wood, maybe the floor is marble, etc.

Thanks for the feedback

I'm used to using Fantasy Grounds but recently decided I wanted to try moving to FoundryVTT version 11 for my content creation. Currently, I am converting a AD&D 2e module - which I have all bitmaps, graphics and story for - to pathfinder 2e. I have installed foundry for the first time, installed the PDF to pathfinder module,  installed the Pathfinder 2nd Edition game system and trying to get started creating a world. However, I am finding there HAS to be other stuff I am missing. I looked around on this site and in threads - since I own just about everything in PDF format for 2e and looked through forums and I just cant find any type of Tutorial on how to get started on content creation. can anyone point me to content or tell me what am I missing:

a) The Items compendium is empty - I expected with the pathf inder system - I would get all the items from the books. How do I get those imported in there?

b) The Compendium Pack lists all the bestiary 1-3 but the POG/ICON for each is total basic - how and where do I go to upgrade those so - for example, a Ancient White Dragon doesnt look like a dude with a headband but a White Dragon when put on the map.

c) I have seen videos talk about importing other modules for Content Creation but they dont really tell what is essential?

d) For walls, doors, etc controls - under Fantasy Grounds I can paint walls in different styles of walls and different floorings - are their modules/packs I need to load to boost out the system for creation? 

e) if you are aware of any videos for tutorials for kickstarting pathfinder 2e and 2e remastered creation with Foundry - please give me a pointer. I have a blank world and its pretty lonely in here :)

I know someone else HAS to have asked this all before - so I am surprised Paizo doesn't have a doc or video on "Getting started with pathfinder 2e creation of FoundryVTT worlds" - I just cant seem to find it.

Fun fact, a "White Witch" in the context of Golarion is a granddaughter of Baba Yaga. Which are usually Winter Witches, which are all about snow and ice. Makes sense so far, right? But then in PF2 Baba Yaga is a patron distinct from Winter. While Baba Yaga has "ice flavor" in her patron description, her patron abilitiy and hex spell is object related. But if you take Winter, you have Primal spells that do not fit the image of Witch. But then Winter Witch could from a list of Patrons, and still get ice "hexes" at level 1. Which you cannot do in PF2.

Yet after all that. People mentioning "white witch" in this thread are talking about healers and "non-harmful" witches.

Great point Temperans! I was afraid to mention color with any white but wasnt sure how to differentiate them - other than:

I would like Paizo to do a beta for the witch next time and include people like yourself and me in that beta to help guide the class for the next revision or set of bonus material. It would be nice. In the end, you cant make everyone happy.

Watery Soup wrote:

That's why you're disappointed.

That's also why there's a problem.

Repeatedly telling people to temper their expectations, settle for what they've got because it's not that bad and make sure they're building it properly isn't necessarily bad advice, but it does more to highlight the problem than indicate there isn't one.

Exactly my thoughts Squiggit!! Telling me that its "not that bad" and highlighting the good - is making our point. Saying its not that bad also says its not that good too.

So you don't build a witch perfectly - there's nothing wrong with that in PF2. In PF1, the gaps between optimized and unoptimized were huge; the gaps have closed in PF2. Play a divine witch if you want, it'll be mechanically worse than a cleric, but it will be fine.

I agree - the problem I am running into is that the options for a divine or fate witch - both in terms of Patron options, feats and spells are extremely limited compared to Occult Patrons.

A divine witch is NOT a Cleric - if they want a cleric play one but a divine witch or White Witch - should be defined as such - I think the problem there is there are a ton of things a white witch should be able to do that a cleric cannot - but those options are just not present in PF2. They need a Earth Mother Patron - that provides a Divine Spell List Patron Skill Nature who is focused around Life (not a Druid)

Patron Hex Cantrip and Granted spell should provide a handful list of spells that they can PICK from. Nudge Fate, Guidance, Discern Secrets or other options for example. The Fate Witch ONLY gets TRUE STRIKE for a Granted Spell - thats totally broken for a witch who doesn't plan to ever attack enemies - Giving a FATE witch the choice for Granted Spell to include: TRUE STRIKE, Ill Omen, Object Reading or other Divination options would greatly improve the class.

Witch is going to feel bad if you play them as a wizard, vecause, well, of course the wizard is a better wizard.

The advantage of the witch is that most of their hexes are 1 actions, or are sustained effects, which may as well be the same thing in many cases. They have "filler" actions that the wizard does not.

Imo though, I still favor the wizard, but that's more a personal taste thing. Not many witch abilities excite me as much as extra spell slots, and wizard, especially spell blending wizard, can't be beat for that

I agree with what - the witch is not a wizard and if you want a Witch with a book of shadows - then just play a female wizard and call your spell book your "Book of Shadows" get a Cat familiar and be off.

Its the same for playing a brown or nature Witch - you can just play a Druid and call yourself a brown Witch

The Gray witch is a multiclass of Witch and Ranger - Gray witches are the enforcers of a coven and hunt down and punish those who "wrong" witches or hunt witches.

The key focus on the Witch class has seemed to be Dark Witches - but if you want to play a Fate Witch or a White Witch (who does no harm) - its very difficult at at minimum limiting with the options made available.

The things that I am missing include:

1) Feat options are so incredibly weak:
Ride Broom Feat - Being skilled at riding a flying animated broom created by a witch. Guide with Knees, Fight on Broom, etc.
Witch Sense - Natural Ability for granting the witch the ability to detect other spell casters (witches, sorcerers and wizards) within 60 feet and via concentration getting an idea of how powerful they are.
Predict Weather
Future Site - Fate Feat - allowing to see into momentarily into someones past of future. Brief use seeing 10 sec but concentrating using a focus item to create a ritual using something like a crystal ball to see further gaining only images of their future or past.

2) List of Patrons is so limited - esp for someone wanting to go for the Occult like FATE which gives me TRUE STRIKE - are you kidding me! Is this the only option for a FATE Witch. I need more options for the granted spell for FATE or other FATE Patrons. Why not allow a choice with Patrons to select Nudge Fate, Guidance or Discern Secrets. Making the Granted Spell ONLY True Strike - a spell that does NOT help for a witch who doesn't attack.

3) Key things I want seem to be missing including:
Circle magic - rituals that the witch can do that are defined (yes I read rituals but they are extremely under developed in my option).
Candle Magic - the ability to place spells in candles created and release the spell as it is burned - ending when the candle is fully burned out.
Craft Charms - To both protect and benefit characters - including covering them with illusions, improving their abilities or protecting them from evil and other forces. Crafting seems totally setup for ARCANE expert casters only vs Expert OCCULT casters.

4) Rules for a Coven - Coven is mentioned under the witch class but I cant find anywhere where it outlines the Covens Book of Shadows (shared Spells for Coven members) and how Coven Sisters can join to cast more powerful spells. Coven Joining - fighting with witches of a coven within 30 feet from one another empowers their spells and gives +X on attacks and damage.

5) Types of Witches are differentiated well enough through the patrons.But the options are very limited for NON Occult witches.

6) Familiars - while I am good with Familiars and Patrons concept - I am not going to put more and more feats into a familiar. They are there to be friend, guide, spells mentor and protector when needed. A friend who holds your spells - but the witch gets so few feats that putting them into a familiar is just a waste. The familiar should advance on his own as the witches level increases. In my option as a witch increases in level - they should get a Familiar ability every couple levels as part of the class.

Maybe the rules are there and I just cant find them but I am trying to create that Witch who looks at you and says "You might want to answer the door - that might be important" then 10 sec later there is a knock at the door. Seeing into the future as a normal sense - like a player about to open a door and getting a sense of danger like a spider sense and saying "Stop - you better look closer at that door" Using these abilities to both guide the players and use them in combat knowing that the enemy is about to do - in vague terms. In later levels using this to improve their armor class per level as they get better. Her focus is all in Fate - divination, understanding and speaking with spirits, enchanting objects and magic circles to help the players, create candles and rocks to give players to help them throughout the game.

Its very frustrating that I can't create what I have been trying to create with Pathfinder 2. To add, I really like alot of the changes in Pathfinder 2 - its far better than other systems available and the recent create of https://pathbuilder2e.com/app.html is so nice. (Yes it should be a Paizo product like D&D Beyond. Yet the improvements are clearly seen there and I hope the writers really listen to the players to improve and provide more options here moving forward. Those are my thoughts again.

I don't have an issue with the HEX spells - but the feat list is sad and the overall spell lists need more spells specific to the witch - and list of Patrons and (Hex Cantrip and Granted Spell) are extremely limited - like one for spell lists other than Occult. The Feats and spells for the area of FATE are really limiting.

Even a spell for WITCH SENSE to detect spell casting classes within 60 feet and their power level falls totally into my characters area - like detect magic but for spell casting classes. Its a very "witchy" thing for her to do or even add the "Danger Sense" FEAT available to Witches of FATE? Its in there - but not on the list for a witch. It just seems like they could have done so much but fell short. I realize it seems like I am hating on it but I'm not. There are alot of things in PF2 that are significant upgrades.

A couple of examples - Yes players get Nudge Fate - but why can't I pick between that and Discern Secrets or Guidance.

Then in Spells lists "A Bit of Luck" and "Diviner's Sight" arent even an option for a Fate Witch. Just doesnt make sense to me.

Witch is going to feel bad if you play them as a wizard, vecause, well, of course the wizard is a better wizard.

The advantage of the witch is that most of their hexes are 1 actions, or are sustained effects, which may as well be the same thing in many cases. They have "filler" actions that the wizard does not.

If you're in a campaign that doesn't have a lot of rests, this can be a big deal early on, to have these free use and renewable use abilities. I've also found players that are gunshy about using important resources will end up being better witches than wizards, because a wizard using mostly cantrips and focus spells is a hell of a lot less impactful than a witch doing the same (though neither of them are particularly good in an optimization standpoint)

Imo though, I still favor the wizard, but that's more a personal taste thing. Not many witch abilities excite me as much as extra spell slots, and wizard, especially spell blending wizard, can't be beat for that

Its good to hear from like minds - I was good with PF1 and the writers should have got all the opinions from those who wanted to play the class and incorporated it into PF2 - yet I am not seeing that. Its like the writers did it in a box with what they wanted it to be without listening the the fans of a witch. Books like Way of the Witch (d20) have come closer to what it should be - with problems as well but PF2 should have added more feats specific to Witches, spells and class builds for both Dark, Guardian and White witches, wider variety of Patrons (wider selection of Granted Spells and Hex Cantrips), more details on Covens, and include details for wider variety Circle rituals, candle (basically a potion that burns), Rock magic and Charms/Talisman. There is just so much they could have done but the over focus on familiars feats is just disappointing. They didnt even include feats (Ride Broom) or spells for creating the Animated Flying Broom for a witch. Hopefully the upcoming books will expand on it vs just republish other classes and stuff from PF1.

I've read this entire thread because we tried to play the Witch in 1st edition and was hoping the writers listened to the issues from the players and addressed them in second edition. I've been trying to create the witch I want based on the Fervor option and its nearly impossible for me to get what I want. In this case, I am trying to create a FATE witch - the witch with the crystal ball helping guide players towards their destiny. This build would never use Evocation, Necromancy or other spells that would harm others. Yet would hinder the enemy ins ways that would stop them from harming the party members including holding, redirecting mentally, or even transforming them temp into woodland animals. There are ways to stop a fight between living creatures without killing each other - except in certain situations.

The things that I am missing include:

1) Feat options are so incredibly weak:
Ride Broom Feat - Being skilled at riding a flying animated broom created by a witch. Guide with Knees, Fight on Broom, etc.
Witch Sense - Natural Ability for granting the witch the ability to detect other spell casters (witches, sorcerers and wizards) within 60 feet and via concentration getting an idea of how powerful they are.
Predict Weather
Future Site - Fate Feat - allowing to see into momentarily into someones past of future. Brief use seeing 10 sec but concentrating using a focus item to create a ritual using something like a crystal ball to see further gaining only images of their future or past.

2) List of Patrons is so limited - esp for someone wanting to go for the Occult like FATE which gives me TRUE STRIKE - are you kidding me! Is this the only option for a FATE Witch. I need more options for the granted spell for FATE or other FATE Patrons.

3) Key things I want seem to be missing including:
Circle magic - rituals that the witch can do that are defined (yes I read rituals but they are extremely under developed in my option).
Candle Magic - the ability to place spells in candles created and release the spell as it is burned - ending when the candle is fully burned out.
Craft Charms - To both protect and benefit characters - including covering them with illusions, improving their abilities or protecting them from evil and other forces. Crafting seems totally setup for ARCANE expert casters only vs Expert OCCULT casters.

4) Rules for a Coven - Coven is mentioned under the witch class but I cant find anywhere where it outlines the Covens Book of Shadows (shared Spells for Coven members) and how Coven Sisters can join to cast more powerful spells. Coven Joining - fighting with witches of a coven within 30 feet from one another empowers their spells and gives +X on attacks and damage.

5) Types of Witches are differentiated well enough through the patrons. Most of the witches are focused around evil based witches (Dark Witches) without an equal focus on other types. Forest Witches seem to be pushed towards being a Druid, Guardian Witches (Gray Witches) or the protectors and bounty hunters of the coven - Focusing on hunting and punishing those who have wronged other witches- such as killing a coven, dealing with Dark Witches that have gone "off the rails" and defending witches from those who would do them harm - they are more of a ranger/witch multiclass and the Good Witches (sometime pacifists) are extremely badly represented in all feats, spells and abilities. If properly done can be extremely powerful and differentiated from other classes.

6) Familiars - while I am good with Familiars and Patrons concept - I am not going to put more and more feats into a familiar. They are there to be friend, guide, spells mentor and protector when needed. A friend who holds your spells - but the witch gets so few feats that putting them into a familiar is just a waste. The familiar should advance on his own as the witches level increases.

Maybe the rules are there and I just cant find them but I am trying to create that Witch who looks at you and says "You might want to answer the door - that might be important" then 10 sec later there is a knock at the door. Seeing into the future as a normal sense - like a player about to open a door and getting a sense of danger like a spider sense and saying "Stop - you better look closer at that door" Using these abilities to both guide the players and use them in combat knowing that the enemy is about to do - in vague terms. In later levels using this to improve their armor class per level as they get better. Her focus is all in Fate - divination, understanding and speaking with spirits, enchanting objects and magic circles to help the players, create candles and rocks to give players to help them throughout the game.

Its very frustrating that I can't create what I have been trying to create with Pathfinder 2. To add, I really like alot of the changes in Pathfinder 2 - its far better than other systems available and the recent create of https://pathbuilder2e.com/app.html is so nice. (Yes it should be a Paizo product like D&D Beyond. Yet the improvements are clearly seen there and I hope the writers really listen to the players to improve and provide more options here moving forward. Those are my thoughts.

Falantrius wrote:

Seranov wrote:

Paizo probably didn't want to give too many specifics about covens, so that the DM can just make them as they please, instead of being like IT MUST BE LIKE THIS.

Not sure what I can say about most of the comments but I am totally with you what you are saying. We have tried to create decent witches and we just end up creating our own classes. We just hate to do that - I'd love to be part of a group that updated the witch - but based on comments - not sure that would ever happen.

Sounds like you and your friends have several developed ideas on what you would like to see in a Witch class. I bet with a little work, you could compile your ideas and even make a Pathfinder compatible alternate class book - and maybe even sell it on RPGNow or something!

I've never been happy myself with any Witch class I've ever run across, starting with third-party 2nd edition material, believe it or not.

Good luck!

The material we are using is on d20 called "way of the witch"

http://www.amazon.com/Way-Witch-Janet-Pack/dp/1929474393/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8 &qid=1411011714&sr=8-1&keywords=way+of+the+witch

Seranov wrote:

That said, given that it follows the fantasy trope, and not the real world religion, trying to create a 'Witch' (Game Term) that 'feels' like a good representation of a Wicca Priestess, would be better served with a different class. Druid Comes to mind, Nature connected divine caster, or maybe just a straight up cleric with domains made to match the desired theme. The new Shaman class out of the Advanced Class Guide might also be a solid choice now that I think about it. It might take some retheming, but it might acutally work very well as a representation of a Wicca priest or priestess in a fantasy setting.

I like that idea too.

Falantrius wrote:

First, we think the Witch class should be either male of female. Just light wizards can be. The way its depicted - the class needs to be female.

That's sexism!

And besides that only evil witches should have a book of shadows every one knows shadows are evil. Give us male while witches a book of light, to guide our way to enlightenment.
/sarcasm

I have wicca friends, too. But they are open minded and do not freak out about RPG stuff because they know it is not about them. And they do not have a magic book (however called) because they follow a tradition older than the written word, taught from one to the other by narration.

That was a mistake on my part - partly due to the brews I was drinking that night. I didn't think I was "freaking" out - my comments on the class are not based on wicca but suggestions to make the witch class better than it is today. As it is written today, my player groups always select druid, cleric, sorcerer and magus after reviewing the class (then call themselves witches) - with a feeling its too restricted for what you gain. To me that says something about the class. I'm still hoping it gets re-worked and improved. Hopefully some of the suggestions others and I have put in this forum - have an impact for change. If that happens - then I am glad I started the thread.

Falantrius wrote:

Seranov wrote:

Paizo probably didn't want to give too many specifics about covens, so that the DM can just make them as they please, instead of being like IT MUST BE LIKE THIS.

Not sure what I can say about most of the comments but I am totally with you what you are saying. We have tried to create decent witches and we just end up creating our own classes. We just hate to do that - I'd love to be part of a group that updated the witch - but based on comments - not sure that would ever happen.

Falantrius, was the only reason you decided to post on the boards was because of this topic?

Just curious

Partly - because we are passionate about the topic and without voice - there is no change.

No been reading for years - but whenever I post - I get "gang piled" and people just hone in on mistakes that I made in the posting like witches being female - which was an error on my part. So posting isn't a lot of fun - best way to avoid it is to just not post.

The Necromancer's Grimoire Secrets of the Witch is probably the most useful thing if your trying to really push that coven thing...

The green hag class is kinda wonky and a bit on the powerful side, but the new hexes and Coven Magic system is actually pretty nifty...

This is awesome - I'd love to have been part of review and writing of it. If there is a second one - I'd love to add content to it.

Eh, my brother is playing a Witch in my current game and was looking at the Coven Hex, but it doesn't appear that there is any real advantage to joining a Coven at all.

It could be made into a very cool option for the class, but I'm not sure its much more than a throw away as it stands.

The stupid definition says "The witch counts as a hag for the purpose of joining a hag’s coven. The coven must contain at least one hag. In addition, whenever the witch with this hex is within 30 feet of another witch with this hex, she can use the aid another action to grant a +1 bonus to the other witch’s caster level for 1 round. This bonus applies to the witch’s spells and all of her hexes."

Lame

There are a few things we do for a coven:
a) Witches must get their new spells from a coven and the spells available are only those from that coven's "Book of Shadow"
b) When each coven is created, it requires a 12th level witch or higher to create a "Book of Shadows" - which is basically the creation of a Mage's book. Spells in the book are limited to all those spells from the coven witches. Witches get all they need to read and write scrolls at 12th.
c) Meetings with the coven - allow the witches in the coven to add spells to the "Book" as cost to get new spells from the "Book" - while its not required to get a new spell - it looks bad if you keep taking from the "Book" without giving.
d) We changed Witch to be based on sorcerers - not mages
e) Witches of 3rd level or higher can create athame - which they can use to put spells into candles, gems, orbs, and other objects (that's a bigger can of worms that I don't want to get into the details of)- off topic here.

f) Coven witches can tap into goddess and god spells by doing a ritual with the coven. Ritual checks allow the coven to do the following:

1) Combine with witches of the same coven (DC = 10+ spell level + # witches in the coven)
2) Combine with Nature (DC 13 + Spell level) - DC grants spell level bonus - 0-1(+1 level), 2-4(+2), 5-7(+3),8-10(+4), 11-13(+5)
3) Failure to Combine - causes damage to all in the ritual = combined bonus + Spell level) with Will DC (15+Spell level) for half damage. Spell slots used to cast the spell are divided across witches in the ritual.
4) Harnessing Upper or Higher level spells - Unknown spells to the coven are = DC = 21 + spell level -1 for each combining witch
5) Casting time = ritual casting X # of participants X Spell level
Ritual time = Normal casting = Free then ritual casting = 1 min
Normal casting = 1 Standard then ritual casting = 3 min
Normal casting = Full Rd then ritual casting = 10 min
Normal casting = ? then Ritual casting = 10 min x normal
6) Circles in rituals area of the circle increase with the ritual - we have just been increasing the radius of the circle per participant but I am sure there is a better way to do it. Thus a coven could create a circle of protection that is can cover a town and that would last - we haven't got a good formula for that yet.

The above just are some examples of what we are doing - but hopefully that could give you something to work with to define your own. I am sure others are going to "jump all over it" but we are having fun with it this way.

List of Beneficial Hexes:

<deleted>

While I agree the list is a good start - the hex list needs some expanding in my opinion. As a good witch, my opinion is that since by 20th I can have 11 hexes Plus those I get from Feats (Extra Hex). I should have near double that to select from - thus the list per style should be about 20 to select from and I feel its a lot shorter than that.

As a green witch or forest witch, I need things to protect the forest - without having to play a druid. A green witch is more like a magus - so they could play a magus - and just call them a green witch - limited to the magus list OR house rule they can only select from the DRUID list. The more I think about it - the more the witch feels like a template that I can put on top of a SORCERER(black/white), DRUID(green), MAGUS(Gray) or CLERIC(black/white).

I largely agree with the responses following the original post. However, I do agree with the original post on one thing:

<deleted>

Finally, while I am here, allow me to put in my vote for a Sorcerous Witch (Sorcerer Archetype or Hybrid Class) that casts like a Sorcerer, but has Hexes (later Major and Grand Hexes) and uses the Witch Spell List. That way, you can portray a Witch who can't Spell, but who can...

I'm with you there. Something should be done to make the witch a more interesting class to play

a) As I stated, I would still like there to be a "Book of Shadows" to learn spells from but after that - they should cast just like a Sorcerer. Move all their spells to the Sorcerer spell list or list they are restricted to witches...and let the witch select from the sorcerer spell list. That would expand the options without giving them bloodline powers.

b) Expand the list of Hexes available for choice.

c) Expand the spell list OR let the witch select a limited set of spells from elsewhere. I'm fine with limiting what witches cant do. But letting them pick from cleric, magic/sorcerer list should be an option - even if limited.

d) Add some spice to the class to make it more interesting to play - like Candle Magic, Crystal Balls, etc. that are cheaper or free to make as a witch as a given level. Such as creating a book of shadows when they reach 12th (effectively getting write scroll/write magic at level 12 only). It doesn't specifically have to be there but something added other than HEX to make it interesting to play. Even the Ninja is allowed to pull more from the Thief lists.

I would be happy to write it up - if it even had a chance of publication.

The way you describe white witches is actually in the game. Call it something other than a hex if you like, but they have the healing hex, the fortune hex, the ward hex, and other beneficial hexes.

It's not unheard of to play the class of druid or shaman from the book and have your character tell everyone they are a witch, either.

Falantrius> I'm good with playing other classes can calling it something else. I'm just thinking that if they expand the spell list and hex list for white/dark/green witches - then a player could play an actual witch. As its currently defined, players seem to feel its a weaker choice and opt out. If they want a witch in my current games, they look at the witch - then feel too restricted with little benefits for the restrictions - then end up playing a sorcerer, druid, mage or magus. No one has opted to actually play the witch class in our games yet. And that speaks "words" to me about the class.

Falantrius wrote:

We have Wicca friends and the depiction is totally negative in the way the Warlock and Witch are put together in our opinion.

Where is a Warlock in Pathfinder?

Falantrius> No - I am referring to a male witch - not a class.

Falantrius wrote:

Hexes are usually used for negative purposes - blessing for positive purposes. Currently implementation lists only Hexes.

Pathfinder has Hexes for positive purposes. "Fortune" is one example. Using two different subsystems for the Witches special abillities would make the game much more clunky and interfere with their compatility.

Falantrius> Aware of that - my opinion is that there should be more choices for a good witch. The Hex list is pretty limited.

Falantrius wrote:

Candle magic - similar to potions except these work only while the candle is burning. Once consumed, its gone. For example, a candle that does protection from evil, causes sleep, increase in wisdom, love attraction, inspiration, zone of truth, etc.

3.0 D&D had a Candle caster.

Falantrius> The nice thing about Candle Magic - is that it would be a nice draw to play a witch. Unlike a scroll - candle magic allows you to give a "Scroll" to someone who cant use magic device - the area of the spell in the candle moves with the candle and it ifs targeted - then it gets targeted to the person holding the candle. Once the candle has burned, it is gone - thus the duration of the spell can be adjusted by shorting the candle. Candles allow the creator to "adjust" - target, duration and area of effect by putting it in a candle.

Overall, the witch class feels underpowered (comment also stated by my players over the last few years of play) - in per level special abilities. Which is one reason I suggest others like candle magic, etc. Then limits the spells to Witch. So I just feel that there should be some subclasses for Dark, Light, Gray, Green, etc. witches - expand the hexes available for choice so there are more for Good/Bad/Nature/etc. witches - expand the spell list so there are spells for each type and it could be a pretty good class for a choice.

At least, that's how I see it. - Others will, of course, have other opinions.

Besides, Glinda was hardly a good witch…

True true - bad example - but there are SO few good witches in movies. I believe "Hansel and Gretal" - the recent Movie - had a good witch that was closest to what I am thinking.

Paizo probably didn't want to give too many specifics about covens, so that the DM can just make them as they please, instead of being like IT MUST BE LIKE THIS.

Not sure what I can say about most of the comments but I am totally with you what you are saying. We have tried to create decent witches and we just end up creating our own classes. We just hate to do that - I'd love to be part of a group that updated the witch - but based on comments - not sure that would ever happen.

My daughter and friends wanted to play a Witch and was looking over the class in PathFinder and was totally freaked out. We have Wicca friends and the depiction is totally negative in the way the Warlock and Witch are put together in our opinion.

First, we think the Witch class should be either male of female. Just light wizards can be. The way its depicted - the class needs to be female.

Second, the basic concepts should be at the root. Like understanding god titles Child, Father, Green, Horned, Lover, Sun God, etc.
Concepts of the Coven and the weave. Covens should be defined groups in pathfinder world just like Mage Guilds. The leader of the coven should have their books of shadows that all the witches can use - like a wizards. However, once learned - the witch is like a sorcerer but must frequently come back to review the book - lest the spells be forgotten. Stealing a covens "Book of Shadows" is a major event for the coven.

Hexes are usually used for negative purposes - blessing for positive purposes. Currently implementation lists only Hexes.

Candle magic - similar to potions except these work only while the candle is burning. Once consumed, its gone. For example, a candle that does protection from evil, causes sleep, increase in wisdom, love attraction, inspiration, zone of truth, etc.

Creation of witch items as part of the class- like creating a broom, crystal ball, caldron, or book of shadows.

Feats specifically useful to witches:
Brew Potions, Create Candle, Animal Companionship (gain 1 animal companion), poison resistance, second sight, sense other witch, read omens, etc.

Third, there should be a set of rituals for each witch sub-type that can be performed individually or with a coven.

Fourth, like fighters - there are different types of witches:
The base is more similar to a Magus than a Wizards and each type should have changes per level under SPECIAL for:

Dark or Black Witches : Like warlocks - they revere demons and devils or dark goddesses for their directions and power. Powers fall into, Hexes, Summoning dark creatures, harm spells, life and beauty drains, and other negative effects that bring sorrow, pain, curses and mind control. Like the Wicked Witch of the North or other witches from fairy tales. There are even dark witches who worship succubi and have similar powers stealing youth, ruining love relationships, controlling men and that sort of thing. AKA beautiful dark witches vs hags

Brown or Green Witches: Like druids are the keepers of the forest but should not be mistaken for druids. Green Witches protect the forest - they prefer to live in the forest and have abilities similar to nature senses, alchemy, tracking, shape shifting, lots of woodland allies, speak with animals, healing animals, seeing through their eyes and even weather sensing and control at later levels.

White Witches: The type my daughter wanted to play. These are the good witches like Glenda. They many times hide amongst the people as typically have witch prejudices until they are welcomed. White witches heal those in need, guidance in love, good alchemy, provide fortunes, and blessings. White witches are not to be confused with clerics who gain their powers from the gods. White witches use their powers to reverse what dark witches may do, sometimes fight dark witches and help people by warning them of bad things to come, healing people and animals in need, providing helpful potions/candles and blessings to help the people she lives near.

Lastly, while there are warlocks and witches that rule over a coven. There are also enforcers that the covens can call upon. These are special fighters that specialize in the hunting capturing or execution of witches (all LN) - sometimes referred to as Gray Witches, or Witch Hunters. Typically, the witches would call a tribunal with a Justicar in order to approve the hiring of a Hunter. Once a verdict is provided, the hunter would have his orders that he wouldn't deviate from.

We would LOVE to see an update to the Witch class to accommodate a lot of the above. I've been playing AD&D since the mid 80s and was one of the stock holders when WotC saved TSR and then sold it to Hasbro. Now that they are really messing it up - we've switched totally to Pathfinder but would like some of the above really fixed/replaces.

Please consider it.