Is there going to be a re-work for the Witch Class?


Homebrew

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My daughter and friends wanted to play a Witch and was looking over the class in PathFinder and was totally freaked out. We have Wicca friends and the depiction is totally negative in the way the Warlock and Witch are put together in our opinion.

First, we think the Witch class should be either male of female. Just light wizards can be. The way its depicted - the class needs to be female.

Second, the basic concepts should be at the root. Like understanding god titles Child, Father, Green, Horned, Lover, Sun God, etc.
Concepts of the Coven and the weave. Covens should be defined groups in pathfinder world just like Mage Guilds. The leader of the coven should have their books of shadows that all the witches can use - like a wizards. However, once learned - the witch is like a sorcerer but must frequently come back to review the book - lest the spells be forgotten. Stealing a covens "Book of Shadows" is a major event for the coven.

Hexes are usually used for negative purposes - blessing for positive purposes. Currently implementation lists only Hexes.

Candle magic - similar to potions except these work only while the candle is burning. Once consumed, its gone. For example, a candle that does protection from evil, causes sleep, increase in wisdom, love attraction, inspiration, zone of truth, etc.

Creation of witch items as part of the class- like creating a broom, crystal ball, caldron, or book of shadows.

Feats specifically useful to witches:
Brew Potions, Create Candle, Animal Companionship (gain 1 animal companion), poison resistance, second sight, sense other witch, read omens, etc.

Third, there should be a set of rituals for each witch sub-type that can be performed individually or with a coven.

Fourth, like fighters - there are different types of witches:
The base is more similar to a Magus than a Wizards and each type should have changes per level under SPECIAL for:

Dark or Black Witches : Like warlocks - they revere demons and devils or dark goddesses for their directions and power. Powers fall into, Hexes, Summoning dark creatures, harm spells, life and beauty drains, and other negative effects that bring sorrow, pain, curses and mind control. Like the Wicked Witch of the North or other witches from fairy tales. There are even dark witches who worship succubi and have similar powers stealing youth, ruining love relationships, controlling men and that sort of thing. AKA beautiful dark witches vs hags

Brown or Green Witches: Like druids are the keepers of the forest but should not be mistaken for druids. Green Witches protect the forest - they prefer to live in the forest and have abilities similar to nature senses, alchemy, tracking, shape shifting, lots of woodland allies, speak with animals, healing animals, seeing through their eyes and even weather sensing and control at later levels.

White Witches: The type my daughter wanted to play. These are the good witches like Glenda. They many times hide amongst the people as typically have witch prejudices until they are welcomed. White witches heal those in need, guidance in love, good alchemy, provide fortunes, and blessings. White witches are not to be confused with clerics who gain their powers from the gods. White witches use their powers to reverse what dark witches may do, sometimes fight dark witches and help people by warning them of bad things to come, healing people and animals in need, providing helpful potions/candles and blessings to help the people she lives near.

Lastly, while there are warlocks and witches that rule over a coven. There are also enforcers that the covens can call upon. These are special fighters that specialize in the hunting capturing or execution of witches (all LN) - sometimes referred to as Gray Witches, or Witch Hunters. Typically, the witches would call a tribunal with a Justicar in order to approve the hiring of a Hunter. Once a verdict is provided, the hunter would have his orders that he wouldn't deviate from.

We would LOVE to see an update to the Witch class to accommodate a lot of the above. I've been playing AD&D since the mid 80s and was one of the stock holders when WotC saved TSR and then sold it to Hasbro. Now that they are really messing it up - we've switched totally to Pathfinder but would like some of the above really fixed/replaces.

Please consider it.


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um..... what????

falantrius wrote:
First, we think the Witch class should be either male of female. Just light wizards can be. The way its depicted - the class needs to be female.

Uh... what the heck are you reading??? NO WHERE does it say witches need to be female... in fact, I can ONLY THINK OF ONE THING in Pathfinder that has a gender requirement and that is Changelings (the entire "race" is female)

As for your other stuff... They are looking as Witches FROM FANTASY AND FICTION... Honestly if you want more "wiccan witch" then the Shaman Class is actually a closer fit... that or the druid...

Liberty's Edge

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You do appreciate that this game is a fantasy game, right?


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I'm sorry but that is like asking that Clerics be changed to match catholic priests since clerics are also known as priests...

Or that druids be worked because the druids of actuality were closer to bards...

The breakdown and make up of Modern Wicca has NOTHING to do with the Witch class in Pathfinder...


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I appreciate the religious standing of your friends. I also have friends who are practicing Wiccan. That being said, the Witch is part of the Pathfinder rules. Namely a class within the Pathfinder world of Golarion. It's not meant to emulate people who are Wiccan and refer to themselves as Witches. There is nothing wrong with the Pathfinder Witch, and no changes are needed.

However, you seem to have a pretty firm idea of your own envisioning of the Witch class. The Pathfinder rules are great in that you can throw away any part of it that you wish. Or rebuild it how you wish. Nothing is stopping you from doing so. You've got a good list of stuff there that you can add to your own version of the Witch class.

Liberty's Edge

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In more constructive terms, I agree that either the Druid or the Shaman from the Advance Class Guide would probably be much closer to the "Witch" that you envision.


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Wait.

Your example of an acceptable "good" witch is from a movie where the two other witches in the story are the most stereotypical and offensive depictions of witchiness I can think of.

You might want to re-think your premise.

This is a fantasy game. Every single class draws from a blended mishmash of classic folklore. The Witch class nails its attempt to mechanically model those various folklore sources better than any other class in the game save for, maybe, the Alchemist.

If you want to play a version of a modern day Wiccan spiritualist you need to pick a class who's abilities can emulate and model those practices. As suggested earlier, the Shaman or Druid are pretty good fits.

If you are dead set on using the Witch class itself, just play a Hedge Witch with a Nature or Healing patron and pick up the Fortune and Healing hexes. Done. There's your white witch.

It would be a really good idea not to try to base fantasy game concept models off of real world analogues. That way lies madness.


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Besides, Glinda was hardly a good witch…


I have a friend who identifies as a witch, and I've heard quite a bit about it over the last twenty years, so I I understand how the implication that witches eat children, etc. is offensive. I asked about that and he says he only eats bad children. Names in role-playing games just cannot be all inclusive and cover all real-world implications, but they should stir the imagination (for better or worse). My only real suggestion is for your daughter to play a bard, sorcerer, or wizard. I think some of the features of those classes would be re-flavored/re-imagined to fit Glenda.


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Falantrius wrote:
We have Wicca friends and the depiction is totally negative in the way the Warlock and Witch are put together in our opinion.

Where is a Warlock in Pathfinder?

Falantrius wrote:
First, we think the Witch class should be either male of female. Just light wizards can be. The way its depicted - the class needs to be female.

No it doesn't.

Falantrius wrote:

Second, the basic concepts should be at the root. Like understanding god titles Child, Father, Green, Horned, Lover, Sun God, etc.

Concepts of the Coven and the weave. Covens should be defined groups in pathfinder world just like Mage Guilds. The leader of the coven should have their books of shadows that all the witches can use - like a wizards. However, once learned - the witch is like a sorcerer but must frequently come back to review the book - lest the spells be forgotten. Stealing a covens "Book of Shadows" is a major event for the coven.

Pathfinder is a non setting specific fantasy game, enabling to play characters inspried from various fictions by using generic classes and trying to provide fun mechanics.

All your stuff is much too specific for a setting free class.

Falantrius wrote:
Hexes are usually used for negative purposes - blessing for positive purposes. Currently implementation lists only Hexes.

Pathfinder has Hexes for positive purposes. "Fortune" is one example. Using two different subsystems for the Witches special abillities would make the game much more clunky and interfere with their compatility.

Falantrius wrote:
Candle magic - similar to potions except these work only while the candle is burning. Once consumed, its gone. For example, a candle that does protection from evil, causes sleep, increase in wisdom, love attraction, inspiration, zone of truth, etc.

3.0 D&D had a Candle caster.

Falantrius wrote:
Creation of witch items as part of the class- like creating a broom, crystal ball, caldron, or book of shadows.

Again this narrows the class too much basing them on their foci.

Your ideas wouldn't work in Pathfinder at all IMO, but you could go to the homebrew section to work with the forum making a witch class that fits your idea of a witch.

Shadow Lodge

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The way you describe white witches is actually in the game. Call it something other than a hex if you like, but they have the healing hex, the fortune hex, the ward hex, and other beneficial hexes.

It's not unheard of to play the class of druid or shaman from the book and have your character tell everyone they are a witch, either.


Falantrius wrote:
My daughter and friends wanted to play a Witch and was looking over the class in PathFinder and was totally freaked out. We have Wicca friends and the depiction is totally negative in the way the Warlock and Witch are put together in our opinion.

Uh, no it isn't. All this nuance you are complaining about gets dumped because this is a GAME and the developers have to think about 1) Simplicity and 2) Balance. Why have Hexes and Blessings when you can do both with one? Why have "Candle" spells when Scrolls do the same thing? Why bother with covens when A) There is already a Hex feature for them and B) It will almost never come up since PCs are loners?


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I'm not sure why you think a Wiccan-style witch should be privileged as the kind of witch portrayed, anyway.


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List of Beneficial Hexes:

Aura of Purity

Cauldron (this is debateable but it allows for the "medicine making white witch" trope)

Fortune

Healing Hex

Peacebond

Ward

Major healing

Pariah

Weather Control

Curse of Non-violence

Lay to Rest

Life Giver

Hexes that, while not explicitly beneficial, can be used for good pretty easily:

Charm

Slumber (as a peaceful way to defuse a situation)

Soothsayer

Water Lung

Speak in Dreams

Vision

Witch's Bounty

Witch's Charge

Witch's Brew (in case the witch needs so make A LOT of potions for say an outbreak of a disease)

Summon Spirit Hey! Sometimes getting advice from sone else is useful... or sometimes you just summon the spirit of a person who can do something you cannot (like a cleric...)

That is pretty much a pretty good list right there... and none of those are inherently "evil" (like misfortune, cook people, or cackle)


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The class name and flavor is unimportant. Decide what you want your character to do, then find the class that most closely mirrors that concept, then you can call yourself whatever you want.


K177Y C47 wrote:
(Snip)

Nothing is evil about cackle or misfortune.


Zhayne wrote:
K177Y C47 wrote:
(Snip)
Nothing is evil about cackle or misfortune.

Well I am aware of that, hence why I said "evil"

Those are just the ones that tend to be more indicative of the "wicked witch in the forest" that the OP seems to be complaining about. Technically, very few of the hexes are actually evil (like Cook People)


Hm, looking at that list..

You could actually make a pretty decent support witch with those hexes, the Endurance, Life, Peace, Wisdom, Ancestors, or Devotion Patrons, and the Hedge WItch archetype or the Hex Channeler archetype xD


Pretty much all Paizo classes are based on a fantasy trope. The Spirit Guided Shaman, the nature loving Druid, armoured Fighter...the witch is no different, and it's the witch found in a thousand fantasy novels and comics. It's not based on Wicca.


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I largely agree with the responses following the original post. However, I do agree with the original post on one thing:

Coven support is really incomplete. Yes, you can get the Coven Hex or use the equivalent Accursed Sorcerer Bloodline to get into a Coven, but no support exists in the rules for player characters to anchor a Coven. Also, Coven abilities other than Caster Level (and sometimes not even that) do not scale with the level of the members, and they have a rigidly set of Coven powers (that are useful for an Evil Coven but mostly not so useful for a Good Coven) that doesn't change (with one exception) with the abilities of the members, except for a vague handwave reference that the DM can handwave in additional powers for especially powerful Covens. So I would like to see a Coven refit, as well as a refit of Changelings/Witchbloods, which have the agonizing combination of a kernel of a fascinating backstory matched with a really one-dimensional overall fleshing out (after metamorphosis, Always Chaotic Evil, with one exception that after metamorphosis is Always Neutral Evil).

Another thing I would like to see is for Patrons to be fleshed out more. Right now, they are just bonus spell lists. Players or DMs COULD flesh these out into something more, but these aren't much of kernels to start from. (To a lesser extent, Cleric/Druid Domains and Inquisitions have the same problem, and don't really cut it as replacements for 2nd Edition D&D's Specialty Priests and associated Spheres, which for all the flaws in their implementation, were conceptually really cool.)

Finally, while I am here, allow me to put in my vote for a Sorcerous Witch (Sorcerer Archetype or Hybrid Class) that casts like a Sorcerer, but has Hexes (later Major and Grand Hexes) and uses the Witch Spell List. That way, you can portray a Witch who can't Spell, but who can run for political office.

Dark Archive

Paizo probably didn't want to give too many specifics about covens, so that the DM can just make them as they please, instead of being like IT MUST BE LIKE THIS.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Eh, my brother is playing a Witch in my current game and was looking at the Coven Hex, but it doesn't appear that there is any real advantage to joining a Coven at all.

It could be made into a very cool option for the class, but I'm not sure its much more than a throw away as it stands.


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Witch is a word with dichotomy. When 3/4 people think of a witch, they do not think of the religious connotation. (Personally, if I were Wiccan, I would call myself "a Wiccan" so as to purposefully make the distinction.) They think of the fantasy/horror trope you see in books, movies, or the bastardized combination of the two you see in stuff like True Blood or The Craft.

Also, just because one group of people identifies with the word witch, does not mean that it has a monopoly on the word and it cannot be used for any other meaning. Especially when said group of peoples, according to Wikipedia, has only existed as a religious affiliation since 1954. (Oh, yes, there are Proto-Wiccan Pagan religions dating much farther back than that, but they did not call themselves "witches") The word "Witch" meanwhile dates as far back as Old English, several centuries before the word's use as a religious self-identifier.

Pathfinder's use of the word Witch, as far as I understand, is in the older, literature inspired meaning.


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The Necromancer's Grimoire Secrets of the Witch is probably the most useful thing if your trying to really push that coven thing...

The green hag class is kinda wonky and a bit on the powerful side, but the new hexes and Coven Magic system is actually pretty nifty...


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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I'll have to check it out. Hoping some good stuff will come from the Witches and Warlocks kickstarter that I backed.


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thegreenteagamer wrote:

Witch is a word with dichotomy. When 3/4 people think of a witch, they do not think of the religious connotation. (Personally, if I were Wiccan, I would call myself "a Wiccan" so as to purposefully make the distinction.) They think of the fantasy/horror trope you see in books, movies, or the bastardized combination of the two you see in stuff like True Blood or The Craft.

Also, just because one group of people identifies with the word witch, does not mean that it has a monopoly on the word and it cannot be used for any other meaning. Especially when said group of peoples, according to Wikipedia, has only existed as a religious affiliation since 1954. (Oh, yes, there are Proto-Wiccan Pagan religions dating much farther back than that, but they did not call themselves "witches") The word "Witch" meanwhile dates as far back as Old English, several centuries before the word's use as a religious self-identifier.

Pathfinder's use of the word Witch, as far as I understand, is in the older, literature inspired meaning.

I think this is by for the most important point made so far. Sinister, occult witches have a greater lineage than Wiccan Witches, by far.


Seranov wrote:
Paizo probably didn't want to give too many specifics about covens, so that the DM can just make them as they please, instead of being like IT MUST BE LIKE THIS.

Not sure what I can say about most of the comments but I am totally with you what you are saying. We have tried to create decent witches and we just end up creating our own classes. We just hate to do that - I'd love to be part of a group that updated the witch - but based on comments - not sure that would ever happen.


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The basic "Witch" class comes largely from mythology involving all manner of archetypical witches - Fetishist sorcerers from Africa, Baba Yaga from Slavic mythologies, Volvr from Norse mythology, Hekate and Calipso from Greco-Roman mythology, Japanese Mahotsukai, etc. Of course, you also have Medieval witches as a major theme, but the archetype is found around the world.

The Druid and Oracle classes are much closer to modern-day Wicca in both form and function, anyway.

Just to put some things into perspective, as well, this is a game wherein you have Paladins in a polytheistic setting, who actively recognize pantheonic models; Paladins were only Christian in real-world mythology, and actually only truly existed as the holy knights of Charlemagne. So you have to take everything with a grain of salt.

And the entire idea of Samsarans - a race of beings from a Plane known as Nirvana - is just out and out wrong on all accounts according to every sect of Buddhism; meanwhile, I'm a Buddhist and play the game with now qualms, Samsarans and Nirvana being a physical location, rather than a state of being, and all

As I said, the iconic "Witch" archetype is something attested to even by Comparative Religion scholars everywhere like Joseph Campbell. They're as inseparable from world mythology as Dragons are. Paizo more than likely decided to stick with the name because it gives an accurate (to mythology) idea of what the class is, and a term that everyone will recognize right away.


Falantrius wrote:
First, we think the Witch class should be either male of female. Just light wizards can be. The way its depicted - the class needs to be female.

I'm not certain I know what you are refering to but if you are talking about how the entire class says 'she' and her, in class descriptions for Pathfinder the rules use the gender specific pronoun for the iconic depicted for the class. So fighter, wizard, alchemist use 'him' and witch, barbarian, and paladin use 'her'.

Barring that, I recommend building the class yourself because you clearly have a specific picture of what you want the class to be doing. Anyone else taking the witch is more likely than not going to deviate from your concepts.

There is nothing inherintly evil about the witch class. There are evil options, but there are plenty of those for most spellcasters.


Falantrius wrote:

My daughter and friends wanted to play a Witch and was looking over the class in PathFinder and was totally freaked out. We have Wicca friends and the depiction is totally negative in the way the Warlock and Witch are put together in our opinion.

First, we think the Witch class should be either male of female. Just light wizards can be. The way its depicted - the class needs to be female.

Well, if you want to play real life, you should notice a billion problems and quirks with everything in this game.

Real Wicca has one main belief: If it harm none, do what you will. So witches should have no curses. Warlocks might because they turn to black magic. Male witches are witches, by the way, in Wicca.

Pathfinder witches are based on a mash-up of fantasy, lore, myth, and stereotypes. Other people have different stereotypes like "witches are female" or whatever. It is just a game, and you could always house-rule things like that.


Falantrius wrote:
Seranov wrote:
Paizo probably didn't want to give too many specifics about covens, so that the DM can just make them as they please, instead of being like IT MUST BE LIKE THIS.
Not sure what I can say about most of the comments but I am totally with you what you are saying. We have tried to create decent witches and we just end up creating our own classes. We just hate to do that - I'd love to be part of a group that updated the witch - but based on comments - not sure that would ever happen.

Falantrius, was the only reason you decided to post on the boards was because of this topic?

Just curious

Scarab Sages

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The class clearly need to be rewritten. The way the class is now, it's possible to make witch that isn't made of wood.


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Imbicatus wrote:
The class clearly need to be rewritten. The way the class is now, it's possible to make witch that isn't made of wood.

But if they take the Flight hex, they do weigh less than a duck.


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Imbicatus wrote:
The class clearly need to be rewritten. The way the class is now, it's possible to make witch that isn't made of wood.

But at least they have baleful polymorph, so they can turn you into a newt.


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Jeraa wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
The class clearly need to be rewritten. The way the class is now, it's possible to make witch that isn't made of wood.
But at least they have baleful polymorph, so they can turn you into a newt.

Yeah but there should be a hex version that isn't permanent so you can "get better."


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Larkos wrote:
Jeraa wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
The class clearly need to be rewritten. The way the class is now, it's possible to make witch that isn't made of wood.
But at least they have baleful polymorph, so they can turn you into a newt.
Yeah but there should be a hex version that isn't permanent so you can "get better."

Permanent duration spells can still be dispelled, so you could still get better. The only truly permanent spells are those with the Instantaneous duration, as the magic comes and goes immediately.


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I find the rogue to be spiritually offensive.


Falantrius wrote:


First, we think the Witch class should be either male of female. Just light wizards can be. The way its depicted - the class needs to be female.

That's sexism!

And besides that only evil witches should have a book of shadows every one knows shadows are evil. Give us male while witches a book of light, to guide our way to enlightenment.
/sarcasm

I have wicca friends, too. But they are open minded and do not freak out about RPG stuff because they know it is not about them. And they do not have a magic book (however called) because they follow a tradition older than the written word, taught from one to the other by narration.

Paizo Glitterati Robot

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Removed a couple posts. Accusations of trolling are completely unhelpful. We're also not super fond of the pile-on that's starting to accrue here. Be civil to each other, please.


My suggestion would be a homebrew class or to pull from some of the various 3.0/3.5 sources -- the Candlecaster was mentioned above for example.

I'm afraid what you are looking for isn't something that I see the Witch class becoming anytime in the near future. Rather, much like anything in the game, you should always feel free to alter things to fit you and your table's wants and needs. I'm certain that there are a number of people here that would be eager to help you with a great deal of the heavy lifting in that regard.


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Imbicatus wrote:
The class clearly need to be rewritten. The way the class is now, it's possible to make witch that isn't made of wood.

Finn and Jake see what you did there...

So does King Arthur (though maybe it'd be more appropriate if it were a Duck Witch)


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Falantrius wrote:
Seranov wrote:
Paizo probably didn't want to give too many specifics about covens, so that the DM can just make them as they please, instead of being like IT MUST BE LIKE THIS.
Not sure what I can say about most of the comments but I am totally with you what you are saying. We have tried to create decent witches and we just end up creating our own classes. We just hate to do that - I'd love to be part of a group that updated the witch - but based on comments - not sure that would ever happen.

Wicca as a religion is less than a century old. It was created out of whole cloth by Gerald Gardner. It's bunk.

There's no such thing as magic in the real world.

This is a fantasy game. The witch class is based on witches in fantasy literature and popular culture.


Well frankly put I think they've called this class witch because Hag was already taken by another creature ;)

As already said if you want a "Wiccan witch" just make a new archetype and transform some druid and cleric spells into hex...
The most difficult part will be the Witch spell list which will need some rethinking too and that could be quite time consuming... ;)

Well, good luck and have fun :)


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meatrace wrote:
Falantrius wrote:
Seranov wrote:
Paizo probably didn't want to give too many specifics about covens, so that the DM can just make them as they please, instead of being like IT MUST BE LIKE THIS.
Not sure what I can say about most of the comments but I am totally with you what you are saying. We have tried to create decent witches and we just end up creating our own classes. We just hate to do that - I'd love to be part of a group that updated the witch - but based on comments - not sure that would ever happen.

Wicca as a religion is less than a century old. It was created out of whole cloth by Gerald Gardner. It's bunk.

There's no such thing as magic in the real world.

This is a fantasy game. The witch class is based on witches in fantasy literature and popular culture.

I wouldn't call it bunk. It is if you take it literally, but like most real world magical traditions, it's really symbolic of personal psychological transformation.

It's bunk in the same sense that meditation and yoga are bunk.

I do agree that the historical roots are as you say, as far as anybody has been able to show. There's no evidence of family traditions going back centuries. If there are such, they almost certainly bear little resemblance to modern Wicca and are probably smart enough to stay hidden.


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thejeff wrote:
meatrace wrote:


Wicca as a religion is less than a century old. It was created out of whole cloth by Gerald Gardner. It's bunk.

There's no such thing as magic in the real world.

This is a fantasy game. The witch class is based on witches in fantasy literature and popular culture.

I wouldn't call it bunk. It is if you take it literally, but like most real world magical traditions, it's really symbolic of personal psychological transformation.

In other words, most real world magical traditions are also bunk?

Quote:


It's bunk in the same sense that meditation and yoga are bunk.

I'm not sure about that. Certainly yoga-as-magic is no better founded than tazomancy-as-magic, but there are also a number of yoga traditions that aren't bunk, or even particularly spiritual. It's basically a low-impact exercise routine focused on stretching.

As an exercise routine, it delivers exactly the physiological benefits you'd expect from low-impact stretching. Not exciting, but not bunk either. (See also this article.)


Orfamay Quest wrote:
thejeff wrote:
meatrace wrote:


Wicca as a religion is less than a century old. It was created out of whole cloth by Gerald Gardner. It's bunk.

There's no such thing as magic in the real world.

This is a fantasy game. The witch class is based on witches in fantasy literature and popular culture.

I wouldn't call it bunk. It is if you take it literally, but like most real world magical traditions, it's really symbolic of personal psychological transformation.

In other words, most real world magical traditions are also bunk?

Quote:


It's bunk in the same sense that meditation and yoga are bunk.

I'm not sure about that. Certainly yoga-as-magic is no better founded than tazomancy-as-magic, but there are also a number of yoga traditions that aren't bunk, or even particularly spiritual. It's basically a low-impact exercise routine focused on stretching.

As an exercise routine, it delivers exactly the physiological benefits you'd expect from low-impact stretching. Not exciting, but not bunk either. (See also this article.)

Hey, dancing skyclad around fires has health benefits too. :)

But I was speaking more of psychological benefits.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Falantrius wrote:
Seranov wrote:
Paizo probably didn't want to give too many specifics about covens, so that the DM can just make them as they please, instead of being like IT MUST BE LIKE THIS.
Not sure what I can say about most of the comments but I am totally with you what you are saying. We have tried to create decent witches and we just end up creating our own classes. We just hate to do that - I'd love to be part of a group that updated the witch - but based on comments - not sure that would ever happen.

I dont know how many people on the forums could actually help you. I would hazzard a guess that the vast majority of gamers know very little of the wicca religion, so designing a that represents it would be extremely challenging for them.

That said, given that it follows the fantasy trope, and not the real world religion, trying to create a 'Witch' (Game Term) that 'feels' like a good representation of a Wicca Priestess, would be better served with a different class. Druid Comes to mind, Nature connected divine caster, or maybe just a straight up cleric with domains made to match the desired theme. The new Shaman class out of the Advanced Class Guide might also be a solid choice now that I think about it. It might take some retheming, but it might acutally work very well as a representation of a Wicca priest or priestess in a fantasy setting.

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Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Homebrew / Is there going to be a re-work for the Witch Class? All Messageboards

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