Faazazel's page

Hello all,

I want to run this old favorite of mine. In the original version, the spirit naga antagonist afflicts villagers with a permanent charm effect that is only broken when the naga is killed. Back then, we didn't really argue about where she got the ability, it was the rules. Now, the naga casts charm person, which lasts 7 hours (as cast by a lvl7 sorcerer). Clearly, the current naga can not create a cult by charming people for only 7 hours at time...the charm would wear off before they even got back to town. If I make the naga's charm spell permanent, the players will definitely want to know where she got that ability...

How do I fix this? Would love to hear your suggestions.

Favored by his gods, they granted this ability. Or he found a relic. Or he found an old spell unknown to curent world wizards. ... answers enough.

ps: NPC's don't follow the rules players need to follow.

Having just finished running the 3.5 version of Tomb of Horrors myself, I can tell you that the Detect Secret Doors spell is equally annoying. There was a huge paradigm shift between 1e/2e and 3e/PF. Before, one had to specify what one was looking at and how one was prodding it; now, just one spell gives the character the locations of and methods for opening the secret doors - without even being a rogue. Grrr.

I sthere so much difference between the old version and the new one? I only have the old version. There some doors say: this door cannot be found by magic used to find secret doors.

Remember that not all traps in tomb of horror are traps. The mouth of the devil isn't a trap, it's a magical item hidden in the mouth of a devil.

The levers you have to pull aren't a trap either. You know something will happen if you pull them. You can't know what. Searching them will reveal they open something, but you can't know what's below the trapdoor. Could be a stairs or a pit.

5% of all checks fail all the time, even when the checks are on 30+, since a natural 1 is allways a fail. Since you need two checks (one to find and one to disarm) the real chance becomes allmost 10% to fail.

Some traps are clearly visible but can't be disabled. How does a thief disable the traps in the complex of secrets doors? The old edition clearly says: there are no ways to prevent this damage.

... and so i would evaluate every encounter/trap

I would probably make Sonja lvl6:

This gives her two attacks, BAB +6/+1, Armor training, Weapon training, Bravery +2 and 8 feats and 1 ability score increase.

I would next chose some allround feats, since Sonja is a generalist, no one trick pony: Alertness, Athletic, Combat Expertise and Dodge (could explain her good AC), Mounted Combat, Power Attack, Cleave and Great Cleave.

Compared to most opponents she meets, she would be the best warrior they have ever met. Remember that she mostly fights low level thugs, warriors, guards, ...

I didn't have as much time as I hoped so it took a bit longer.

This is my conversion of the first encounter:

http://www.sharepdfbooks.com/TEMNQFQH2WHB/Night_Below_-_Beginning_the_Campa ign.pdf.html

Nice map noble drake.

@JadedDemiGod: if you want some help on the conversion, let me know. I'm interested in joining on the project. I'll post my conversion of the first encounter in the campaign here tomorrow.

Faazazel wrote:

http://web.archive.org/web/20061007172021/http://pages.sbcglobal.net/zimrie l/NightBelow/suggestions.html.

This is a site you want to visit

Clicking your link seems to direct to this thread, and copying the text of it into another window resulted in a "blocked malicious site" warning from my Norton software - perhaps repairing and re-posting the link would help?

http://web.archive.org/web/20061118153541/http://pages.sbcglobal.net/zimrie l/NightBelow/index.html

And if you simply copy paste this url and remove the space in zimriel? For some reason I don't know this forum allways places a space between the e and l in zimriel. I had to search the old site Illuminating the Night Below on web archive. The original URL seems to have been removed. This was a very good site in the old days concerning Night Below Campaign.

http://web.archive.org/web/20061007172021/http://pages.sbcglobal.net/zimrie l/NightBelow/suggestions.html.

This is a site you want to visit

I've just got my PDF of the Pathfinder verison of the new Tomb of Horrors Complete from Frog God.

It has lava children in it, but not guardian familiars. There is also a CR 3 fire drake that is a straight conversion of the original.

I found lava child in an official piazo book: Misfit Monsters Redeemed.

Is there somewhere a list of all official creatures with the sources where you can find them? Like also the special ones from the adventure paths.

Interesting suggestions. I really want to see this through but It probably not going to happen as i was trying to drum up some help around here but it seems like everybody is busy. SO this projest is on hold for the time being. so far i have all of the info from the earlier dragon magazines organized in my above format, as well as the first two issues of dungeon.

I would love to help, but the problem is the fact that it's so big. I've started with a conversion of the first adventure in the first dungeon. I think it will take me two weeks to convert (typing over the text does take some time). You may use my conversions in the end if you want to.

@Silke: I do like to keep it clean and simple. Things I still need to change are the d&d references. Like the damage you take from falling, the saving throws that are sometimes mentioned, and the mentioning of d&d books.

I’ll try to change the font to the same one used in Pathfinder Society Adventures. I’ll also add two small changes to the start so it fits into a greyhawk campaign. (I’m used to playing in greyhawk).

I've done 11 rooms so far and it should go pretty fast. The editing takes some time and I’m still thinking if I’ll add more art or not. The problem is that the old art and new art don’t seem to fit together. I’m also thinking of reworking the maps in the adventure to feel newer.

Thanks for the mentioning of the other pictures of the magma elemental, I’ve used the second one. And also thanks for the mentioning of the right way to link monsters to books.

@Silke: thanks for the information. I'm pretty new at the game. I allways played 2edition d&d, but we recently changed to pathfinder to play the the Serpent's Skull Adventure Path. I do know the rules about CR and EL. But it's hard to udnerstand how hard an encounter will be in the end based on only the CR's. The experience I have so far is DMing a level 1-3 party. No min-maxing.
@amethal: I don't have Necromancer Games's Tome of Horrors, I didn't even knew these existed. The orcs do have a good defensive position. In the first encounter they are firing from slits. The orcs in the second encounter are behind a chasm with a bridge.

This is what I have so far, everything up to the entrance of the dungeon:
Dark Tower of Calibar.

I still need to change the information text concerning the damage taken from falling.

I've started on my first conversion ever but I need some help with the monsters.

Outside: The first encounter are four firedrakes in the original adventure. I've changed these into four flame drakes (CR5) making it a CR9 encounter;

Room 2: The second encounter are two lava children which I have changed into two medium maga elementals (CR3) making it a CR5 encounter;

Room 5: The third encounter is a killer mimic staircase which I have replaced by a normal mimic (CR4);

Room 8: contains an ettin (CR6)

Room 10: a secret room with a guardian familiar, a cat that has nine lifes and becomes bigger (+1HD) each time it returns. Here I'm stuck at the moment. I was thinking of taking a cat familiar to start with CR 1/4 and add one to BaB, damage, AC and HD everytime it was killed. Making it a CR1/4 up to CR6 encounter. The last "cat" would have 27 hitpoints, 2 claws +12 (1d2+4), bite +12 (1d3+4) and AC 22.

Room 27: Shrieker a mushroom that only warns. Since I can't find this creature, I guess I'll replace it with a trap with the same effect.

Room 30: nine orcs (CR 1/3) becomes a CR4 encounter.

Room 31: three Dire wolves (CR3) becomes a CR6 encounter.

Room 32: fourteen Orcs (CR 1/3) becomes a CR 5 encounter.

Room 33: Troll (CR 5)

Room 39: Chimera (CR 7)

Room 40: Wraith (CR 5)

Room 41: six Shadows (CR 3) becomes a CR 8 encounter.

Room 44: twenty skelletons (CR 1/3) and a vampire (CR 9) becomes a CR 10 encounter.

The two most difficult encounters are the four flame drakes (CR9) and the final fight with the vampire (CR10)

The original adventure was meant for a total of 28 to 32 levels of PC's. Can anyone say, based on the list of encounters, what this level would be suited for? I was thinking a group with four level 9 PC's, based on what i find in the core rules, would have 1 challenging fight at the end, one average encounter outside, one easy encounter with the six shadows and all the others would be below easy.

While a lvl 8 party would have: One hard encounter, one challenging, one average, one easy and all the others below easy.

and a lvl 7 party would have: One epic, one hard, one challenging, one average, three easy and all the others below easy.

The flame drakes at the start could be changed into a scaled encounter. 2 at level 7, 3 at level 8 and 4 at level 9. The six shadows can also become a scaled encounter: six at level 9, five at level 8 and four at level 7.

Toning down the final battle would be a bit silly in my eyes. I love ending with a spectacular fight.

Am I a bit right with calculating the CR's and powerlevel of the adventure? Do you think level 9 would be able to handle the fights in one straight walk without resting? And can I simply ignore all encounters below easy to calculate how hard a dungeon is?

Thanks for the help.

@Silke: I understand it takes lots of time to do your work so detailed. Respect for the good work.

Also, in my experience, monstrous humanoid just doesn't work as a PC race. I'm sure others will disagree.

+1

I also don't see monsters fit as PC's

Hmm, the only really explicitly evil modules I know of was We Be Goblins (a one-shot goblin adventure at that). There might have been a similar longer term adventure called "Reverse Dungeon" (for 2e) that had the pcs take on the role of the monsters in the dungeon dealing with wandering adventurers- but I've never seen this one.

Reverse dungeon isn't really evil. But you could play it that way. The biggest problem is that it's mainly about some monsters defending their home. So not a real long adventure path (allthough it could be the start of one)

Conan is more some kind of allround character. He fights, he steals, he's an archer, he hunts, he tracks, ... Barbarian would be a good fit.

You dont have any theif levels, without that its not accurate. He did quite a bit of theiving in his time.

He didn't had to open locks or disarm traps. He simply avoided the traps and used his climb to get into rooms taht were locked.

I'm reminded of casting Reverse Gravity on a bunch of mooks, and then sitting down to figure out how far they would fall. After my calculations, I decided that Reverse Gravity is pretty much an instant-win button by the time you can cast it. At 13th level, the earliest a wizard can cast it, it lasts 13 rounds = 78 seconds.

Distance fallen is given by 0.5 times the acceleration (9.81 m/s^2) times the time squared. 0.5 * 9.81 * (78^2) = 29,842 m

So at 13th level, someone you cast Reverse Gravity on falls approximately 30 km straight up....and then when the spell ends they fall 30 km straight down.

Yeah, it's true that there's a 20d6 cap on falling damage, but at those distances it should be hand-waved away as just flat out killing the target, much like any sane GM would do if a character leaped off a cliff and fell 30 km normally. Hell, even if you don't allow for the insta-death, it rids you of the target for 26 rounds...in other words you can finish off whatever other bad guys are around, dress your wounds, prepare a few buffs, and then take out the greatly weakened target once it splats down.

Did I mention there's no save and SR doesn't apply?

I would say at 13th level the reverse gravity spell has a volume of 130 feet height and stays 13 rounds. casting it would send the target 130 feet up into the air and keep it there for 13 rounds. Once the spell is finished, the target falls taking the damage from a 130 feet fall.

Got me thinking about this awesome campaign again... pbp anyone???

I'm not playing nor dming any pbp at the moment, so I would be interested

Eevn in the older editions of the game it's hard to find evil adventures. So it will be allmost impossible to find evil campaigns.

Most editions see the players as hero, not as villain. That's why the most evil classes are often not allowed for players, only NPC's

The problem with the shackled city is the fact that it's a meat grinder. Characters will die all the time, new characters won't be interested in continuing the campaign and it will feel like one big railroad.

The first dungeon alone is deadly like hell. The players will be level 1 when they start and they know there are stronger NPC's in town, so it's very hard for them NOT to get some help from above.

Very nice work. The only thing I find missing are the reference of the artists who made the art inside.

Excalibur should have a power to blind opponents.

I was DM in this campaign and it has a lot of pitfalls.

Book 1 is mostly there to get the players up to a certain level. It seems to have a lot of randomness in the encounters, like the marsh that gets bigger etc. At the start of the campaign you'll find something about a missing apprentice. The problem is, by the time the players encounter her, she'll be long forgotten allready.

When the adventure in the underdark starts players have no choices at all about the adventure. If they get out of the underdark the campaign is over. This part will need a lot of flesh to keep players busy and interested.

The biggest problem with the campaign is the fact that every smart player would try to get some help. Unless you place the campaign in a very remote area, you'll find them running to the nearest big city to report what they have seen/found out.

I tried something like this a while ago on my own. I saw all these dungeon magazines laying around here not being used because most adventures didn’t fit my campaign (and we play only once every week).

So I decided to create the biggest sandbox campaign ever – yes if you see it big, think huge. The first two things I checked were the world largest dungeon and the world largest city. But both seem to be a bad way of creating a big world. The world largest dungeon is nothing more than a serie of dungeons with a different theme, while the world largest city only offers adventure hooks.

So I thought of a different way to create it. This was my idea:

Step 1: Chose a world. You do need a campaign world to setup a campaign. If you don’t and you add lots of adventures you’ll end with a lot of random history, gods, artifacts, … Your different adventures won’t glue together very well. Unless if you love to add stuff like greyhawk, next to ravenloft and athos. I chose Greyhawk, because I have the most resources of that campaign world and a lot of adventures are written for greyhawk.
Step2: Chose a location. Starting with a map has the advantage that you can simply add the stuff you find to different locations. Because I’m lazy, I chose the Amadeo jungle in greyhawk. The advantage of this location is that it’s used in two adventure paths. So you can find a lot of information about that region.
Step 3: read all the adventures in dungeon magazine one by one and give them one of the following codes:
A – This adventure can be used without any story modifications by simply giving it a location where things happen.
B – This adventure can be used but needs some modifications to the story to fit (maybe arctic needs to be changed to snow covered mountain)
C – These adventures could be used with lots of modifications (climate change, backstory, encounters, …)
D – There is no way that I’ll ever use this adventure
Step 4: Now that we have a big map and a lot of information about adventures at certain locations, we need to create a feeling that these belong to one world. NPC’s that are used in one adventure could be the same used in another. To many NPC’s, NPC-groups, … lead to a random feeling in a gameworld. For example the Dark Tower of Calibar would be good as a base of operation for the alleybashers used in the Shackled City campaign. Instead of adding yet another thieves guild to the world.
Step 5: now that we have a lot of adventures, locations, NPC’s and groups, … we need to create rumours, random encounters, … foreshadowing the adventures we will want to add to the world.
Step 6: If all the above is done, all that needs to be done is rewrite every adventure made in one game-system.

I got myself up top step 3 :)