FWCain's page

It's a Region Activity.

https://2e.aonprd.com/Actions.aspx?ID=1375

I've just thought of a useful restriction, to prevent abuses of this revision...

Limit this feat to just one skill per attribute. That is, up to four times total, choosing just one skill from each attribute.

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Franklin

I just noticed...
It's the AP proper which listed the commodities as 6 Ore.
In the Players Guide, it lists 6 Stone.

So, it looks like someone noticed this error in the AP and fixed it in the PG.

Considering that an observatory needs large lenses and a large mirror, I was thinking that an Observatory as a Civic Structure would need a relatively large amount of Luxury commodities.

Here's what I came up with:

Observatory
7
Bldg.
1x1 (1)
12 RP
6 Lumber, 8 Luxury, 6 Stone
Scholarship (expert)
DC 23
+1 to Prognostication and Recover Army (Lost)

Does this sound about right to you?

What about the traits Edifice and Famous? Either? Both?

Thanks,
Franklin

Thank you!

(AP KM 2e, pg. 512, "Favored Land")

"You take a –2 penalty to Kingdom skill checks made during these two activities."

This penalty did not have its type specified.

What type should this penalty be, please? (Personally, I'm leaning towards Status Penalty.)

Thanks,
Franklin

I've been meaning to ask...

Other than the default status bonus for skills using the attribute associated with the Role, are there any _other_ benefits for investing a Role??

Meaning, if I implement a "house rule" granting a de facto minimum status bonus equal to whatever they would otherwise be granted from investing Roles, would I be breaking any other rules by doing so? I have not yet found any such other rules, so I wanted to ask the rest of you if you have seen something I missed, please.

Thanks,
Franklin

Just as the Title says, I've envisioned a new Leadership activity, and I'd like your advice on making this new activity as "legit" as possible, please.
;-)

Thanks,
Franklin

Lead Army (Leadership Activity)

Requirements: A (PC) leader must spend all of his leadership activities for this turn, to perform this activity. This leader must spend all of this month out in the field with the target army.

Details:

A (PC) leader takes active command of an army. This leader spends this turn (the entire month) with the target army. If the army is away from the capital, then the leader has made arrangements to receive communications with his staff back in the capital and with the other leaders, sufficient to avoid triggering a vacancy penalty.

The target army receives a +2 circumstance bonus for all actions it takes during this turn. This bonus increases to +3 if the leader is either the General or the Ruler.

There is not roll associated with this activity.

I've written up some ideas on how to incorporate political / military alliances into KM2e.

https://fcain.tripod.com/pf2/kb_ally.html

Given PF2's stance on having only three types of bonus (circumstance, item, and status), I've decided that this bonus makes most sense to me as an Item Bonus, given how much effort (four turns, or more) will be needed to make an alliance.

I'd appreciate your thoughts.

Thanks,
Franklin

Benefits of an Alliance

When two kingdoms join together in an alliance, each kingdom gains an item bonus (equal to the rating of the alliance), to be used used on all (appropriate) checks of Boating, Engineering, Politics/Statecraft, Trade, and Warfare, made with their ally. This level (and item bonus) starts off at the minimum of +1, and can be improved to as high as +3.

Allied kingdoms can make improvements in each other's territory. Regardless of who actually paid for and built the improvement, the kingdom who owns the hex is the one who officially owns (and benefits from) the improvement.

Allied kingdoms can move their armies into and through each other's territories, and can station them in each other's territories or in unoccupied fortifications, although not inside allied settlements. If an allied kingdom deploys an army into your territory, you must succeed at a Politics check, or else gain 1 Unrest. (However, this does not apply if your kingdom has been attacked and you have requested aid from the ally.)

If you are attacked by another kingdom, or suffer some other calamity (such as a randomly rolled Event), you can call for aid from your allies. The precise nature and amount of aid that your ally sends to you is at the discretion of the ruler of the ally kingdom. (Speaking "out of character," it will be up to the GM to decide what aid, if any, is sent to you.)

Likewise, if your ally is attacked or suffers some other calamity, you can expect to receive a request from your ally for aid. If you fail to send an apprpriate amount of aid, and in a timely fashion (GM's descretion as to either case), the GM will determine what backlash (if any) occurs.

In the event that an alliance is lost, should you have any armies stationed in that former ally's territory, you must deploy them out of that kingdom the very next turn, or else you risk a declaration of war.

Check for Backlash (Inadequate Support to Ally)

Roll a test of Politics, against the higher of either your kingdom's Control DC or else the ally kingdom's Control DC. Increase the DC of this check by +2 for each previous incident of inadequate support to this specific ally, and by +1 for each incident of inadequate support to any other ally.

Critical Success: You escape this incident without embarrassment.

Success: Gain 1 Unrest. Your alliance with this kingdom decreases by one level. If this should reduce your alliance with this kingdom below +1, then this alliance ends, and you gain 1 additional Unrest.

Failure: Gain 1d2+1 Unrest. Your alliance with this kingdom decreases by two levels. If this should reduce your alliance with this kingdom below +1, then this alliance ends, and your gain of Unrest is doubled.

Critical Failure: Gain 2d3 Unrest. Gain 1d2 Ruin of your choice. Not only do you lose your alliance with this kingdom, you also lose your diplomatic relations with them (along with any trade agreement). Furthermore, your callousness causes you to lose one level in each other alliance you may have. Any such alliance which is reduced below +1 is dissolved.

I'm of the mindset that (for the most part) the rules should work in _both_ directions.

(The obvious exception being when the Ultimate Villain needs to escape, to plague the PCs again in the future, he can have a Deus Ex Machina. But even then, I usually find a way to engineer this without breaking the rules.)

Those few times I get to be one of the players (instead of the usual GM), it actually outrages me when an NPC (who is _not_ the big bad) gets to flaunt the rules egregiously.

Also, I find that if I can not create a viable challenge to the players using the same rules I expect them to follow, then maybe there is an underlying flaw with those rules.

I understand that my philosophy is not for everyone. And I am OK with that. Whatever works for you and your players is good enough. I'm just saying, this is what works best for me.

Thanks,
Franklin

The Army Activity "Deploy Army" has no RP cost listed. That makes no darned sense to this veteran who also loves history. The Consumption for an army is just the basic cost of having the army in the first place, not for the army to actually be doing anything more than standing around as a silent threat of possible retaliation if some pesky neighbor gets uppity. To actually send that army out to DO something takes food and other materials, and that means money (or RP, in games terms).

Therefore, I intend to make some amendments to Deploy Army.

https://fcain.tripod.com/pf2/kb_acts.html#deploy_army

For sending out troops via river barges and what-not (i.e. to Deploy an Army via Boating), I feel that 1 RP is just right as the cost per army. Historically, sending out _anything_ via boats is cheaper than sending it overland.

For Deploy Army via Exploration, I'll charge half (rounded up) the "Rough Terrain" Build cost, for the most expensive hex along the proposed route.

Finally, for Deploy Army using Magic . . . how about one Resource Die? Roll that die, and pay that many RP to magically send that army to wherever you want.

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Franklin

The AP fails to tell us any of the kingdom stats for any of the NPC kingdoms we encounter. So I thought I'd begin reverse-engineering them, to find some of their relevant stats...

Thanks,
Franklin

I. Varnhold
https://fcain.tripod.com/pf1/Varnhold_map.jpg

(page 90)

DS5. VARNHOLD
Varnhold is a town that has 1 Water border and 3 Land borders. It occupies four blocks on the Urban Grid, and all 16 of its lots have structures built. These consist of the following: Brewery, Houses (4), Inn, Shrine, Smithy, Stable, Tannery, Town Hall, Trade Shop (gemcutter), Trade Shop (potter), Trade Shop (tailor), and Trade Shop (weaver).

The minimum kingdom level that Varnhold can be, to have built all of these structures, is level 3.

The commodities needed for the Town Hall (4 Lumber, 4 Stone) will push the limits of a beginning kingdom (max. of 4, for any single commodity), but is still doable.

II. Fort Drelev
https://fcain.tripod.com/pf1/Drelev_map.jpg

(pages 104-105)

DR2. FORT DRELEV
Fort Drelev is a town that has 2 Water borders and 2 Land borders (one of which also has a Wooden Wall). The town occupies four blocks on the Urban Grid, and all 16 of its lots have structures built. These consist of the following: Festival Hall, Houses (4 lots), Inn, Keep, Piers (2), Smithy, Stable, Tavern (Popular), Temple, and Watchtower.

The minimum kingdom level that Fort Drelev can be, to have built all of these structures, is level 7 (from the Temple).

The commodities needed for the Keep (8 Lumber, 8 Stone) require that Drelev's kingdom be at least 10 hexes in size.

III. Pitax

(page 395)

Pitax has one Water border and three Land borders; all of the Land borders have Stone Walls. The city has the Paved Streets infrastructure, and occupies all nine blocks on its Urban Grid, with all 36 lots containing structures. These consist of nine (9) houses, an alchemy lab, a barracks, an illicit market, a cathedral, a graveyard, a guild hall, an inn, a palace, a popular tavern, a secure warehouse, a shrine, two specialized artisans, a theater, and a waterfront.

The minimum kingdom level that Pitax can be, to have built all of these structures, is level 15 (from the Cathedral and the Palace). And since Pitax will eventually be in an open war against the PCs' kingdom, that means that Pitax's armies will be level 15 as well.

The large amounts of commodities needed to have built either the Cathedral (20 Lumber, 20 Stone) or the Palace (20 Lumber, 12 Luxuries, 15 Ore, 20 Stone) requires that the kingdom of Pitax be at least _100_ hexes in size.

...at 7th level the feat can raise a skill to expert and at 15 it can raise a skill to master.

Instead of 7 / 15, I went with 8 / 16.

Actually, I've decided to merge this feat with Skill Training. This way, a kingdom can use a feat to learn *OR* improve each skill just once.

But then we'd have to change the name of the feat. ;-)
Any suggestions, please?

"Ret-Con" would be too "meta" (and to be fair, I think my current suggested name of "Change Feat" is almost too meta itself) .

Unless any one offers a better name here, I'm going with "Change of Policy."

Here is my proposal of a kingdom equivalent of retraining one feat in place of another feat. This new kingdom activity is a leadership activity, not quite as drastic as Relocate Capital.

I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Thanks,
Franklin

Change Feat (Kingdom; Leadership)

Requirements: All leaders must each spend one of their leadership activities to collectively perform this activity, but only if the GM approves the requested change.

The kingdom's leaders wish to retroactively change some relatively lesser policy or practice they established previously, resulting in a minor restructuring or reorganization of the kingdom. (Speaking "out of character," the players wish to retroactively change which Feat they chose during a previous level advancement.)

There is no check needed for this activity. The GM has final approval on whether or not to allow the requested change to be made.

Foreign aid (*) ought to go both ways. Instead of always asking for help, why can't our kingdom offer help to friendly neighboring kingdoms?

(* Indeed, assistance of any kind should go in both directions.)

I do not recall any of the randomly-rolled Events (from either edition of the kingdom building rules) presenting opportunities for our kingdom to help out a neighbor. (Obviously, I am not including the various _scripted_ events, which are all part of the Adventure Path, proper.)

Any suggestions on how this idea could be implemented, please?

Thanks,
Franklin

I've been thinking about allowing a new Structure: a Stock Exchange.

I'm thinking this should have a level of 8 or 12 (with a corresponding DC). It would have the traits Building and Edifice, and possibly Famous and Infamous as well. A size of 2 lots should be sufficient. I'm not sure, yet, of the RP cost or Commodities. But it should require Trade at expert (or possibly at master if level 12). This Structure would be an upgrade from Marketplace, and would give a +2 item bonus to Establish Trade Agreement, Manage Trade Agreements, and Purchase Commodities.

An example (in fiction) of this idea would be Barret's Coffee House, a coffee house serving as a (de facto) stock exchange, located in the center of the Merchant's Quarter in the city of Krondor (in Raymond Feist's novel, "Shadow of a Dark Queen").

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Franklin

I've added a new Feat to my list: Skill Improvement.

This level 4 feat improves your kingdom's proficiency in an existing skill by one rank, up to the maximum allowed. You can select this feat multiple times, choosing a new skill each time (i.e.: you may not improve the same skill a second time using this feat).

Thanks,
Franklin

(Edit/Addendum)...

If gaining three extra Fame/Infamy Points at higher levels is too much, perhaps raise this feat to level 8, and have it give a second extra point (for a total of 3 points at the beginning of each turn) at level 16.

I've been thinking about another possible new Feat for kingdom building...

Notoriety would be level 6 Feat, that gives an extra Fame/Infamy Point (for a total of 2 points) at the start of the kingdom's turn. At 12th level, this Feat would grant another Fame/Infamy Point (for a total of 3 points) at the beginning of each turn. Finally, at level 18, this Feat grants one last additional Fame/Infamy Point, for a total of 4 points at the beginning of each turn.

If this is too powerful for just one Feat, perhaps this could be a series of Feats, instead.

But this feat existing means the Kingdom won't choose any other feat. An Ability Boost is simply the most powerful choice.

1) Limiting this proposed feat to just once per Attribute means the kingdom can buy this feat up to four times.

2) Boosting the level of this proposed feat to level 16 (or higher) further limits how many times a kingdom can buy it.

3) We (GMs) should probably propose more new feats, including higher level ones, to give our players more choices.

Thanks! ;-)
Franklin

It's available and live on the various sites, but given that we plan another revision round we haven't done a big launch push. Anyone who gets it now will still be able to get the updated PDF when it's ready so no worries there.

Lots of good stuff in there but a little edition leakage here and there and some assumptions about rules. Looking forward to the final version!

A follow-up question for Jason...

How does one become one of your play-testers?

Given how passionate I am about kingdom building, and given my knowledge of history (another passion of mine), I might be able to give useful assistance on this and other products you (LG) make in support of the KM Anniversary edition.

Thanks,
Franklin

I am giving one extra attribute boost at 1st level (based on Heartland chosen)...

Oops...

This is erroneous -- the rules-as-written provide that Attribute Boost.
(And what I'm actually giving from the Heartland chosen is a bonus Skill.)

Ultimate Rulership actually has this feat.

Good to know. ;-)

(This feat) is 11th level there.

Well, since Feats are awarded on even levels, I rounded up the levels of feats (all but the "initial" ones given by Government) by one level. It's the same effect (since a feat of "level 11" can not be chosen until level 12 any way), and it's more in line with the Core Rules, as I understand them.

I personally think it's too powerful but if you're not increasing the total number of attributes already like our rules changes recommend then it's fine.

I am giving one extra attribute boost at 1st level (based on Heartland chosen), and the attribute boosts given every five levels will be for three attributes (not just two).

Thanks,
Franklin

I am thinking of creating a new kingdom Feat, called Attribute Boost, which will give the kingdom a boost to just one attribute. I was thinking that level 12 would be appropriate for this new feat. Also, this feat would be repeatable by attribute; that is, the kingdom could select this new feat only four times total, once per attribute.

As with any other attribute boost, the attribute chosen will get a +2 increase (or just +1 if the attribute is already at 18 or above).

I'd appreciate your thoughts on this idea of mine. Do you think this idea has merit? Is level 12 appropriate for this new feat? Is this new feat too powerful, even at level 12?

Thanks,
Franklin

We're doing some final edits on (Ult. Rulership, for KM2e) now.

Is there any word on when those who missed the Kickstarter will be able to pick this supplement up?

Next week on PF2sday! :)

Jason,

Have you (Legendary Games) posted this product on your website yet, please? I'd like the URL, whenever it's available for order, so I can more quickly buy it, please.

Also, what product options will be available? That is: PDF? Hard copy? Both?

Thanks! ;-)
Franklin

...is there an "Ask Jason Nelson" thread somewhere on the forums here?

This should be a thing! ^_^

There exists a road between Varnhold and Restov. I have used this pre-existing road as an excuse to permit roads to be built in hexes that are not part of your kingdom, provided those hexes are claimed by some other kingdom which has some level of friendly relations with your kingdom (such as what presumably exists between Lord Varn and the Swordlords in Restov). This way, we would still be preserving the different flavor of wilderness hexes versus settled hexes.

Just my two coppers' worth. ;-)
Franklin

I'm hoping that Legendary Game's plugin for the 2e Kingdom Building rules fixes a lot of things.

If someone in the know could post a direct URL for this future product (so that I can more properly track this item), I'd be grateful! ;-)

Thanks,
Franklin

If memory serves, most (if not all) of the rivers were labelled in the maps in the original AP modules.

Franklin

As long as we've got Mr. Jacobs' attention, and on this topic... ;-)

Having an abstract Urban Grid works OK for a city, but only up to the point where that city becomes a metropolis, if it also had walls or is an island. In this case, what happens then? Do the walls on the borders get retroactively redistributed? Same question for the Water borders of an island city.

Personally, I like the idea of having the "old city" be enclosed in a set of inner walls, with the "new city" outside of said walls. And for an island, I'd prefer to predetermine the size of the grid(s) that can be fit on it, to give the players and the GM the opportunity to plan ahead.

Thanks!
Franklin

Good. Thanks, Vance.

I was basing my comment upon the requirement to now specify the TYPE of business for a Guild Hall and/or Trade Shop structure.

But they HAVE removed any and all references to s specific size for the Urban Grid (including any references to the size of its component Blocks and/or Lots), haven't they?

Franklin

Back in the first edition rules for kingdom building, the stated size for a District Grid (their version of the Urban Grid) was just under one square mile.

Then again, in the first edition KB rules, they specifically called out that a "Building" in a settlement was almost always NOT just ONE big building, but rather a GROUP of like-minded buildings nestled together. They appear to have rescinded this understanding with the new version (for all but the Houses and Tenements structures).

Franklin

Tech-wise, including metal buildings of whatever purpose is a more post-industrial feel, not a pseudo-Renaissance feel. Don't recall reading about many _steel_ towers in the usual sources of heroic fantasy literature. _Stone_, yes -- _steel_, no.

Also, I can't imagine the rust monster rider on your homeowner's policy will be all that affordable, either.
https://2e.aonprd.com/Monsters.aspx?ID=354

Franklin

The commodities listed for the Arcanist's Tower is 6 Ore . . .
And no Stone.

So, it's supposed to be a metal tower? Not a stone one?

Or was this a typo?

Thanks,
Franklin

I have a question about the bonus Region Activity granted by achieving a critical success on Claim Hex.

The rules-as-written (RAW) do not specify any restrictions on using this extra Region Activity. However, it would make sense thematically and logically for this bonus activity to be restricted to just that specific hex.

For the colonization of a new area to be so smooth, that the kingdom can immediately begin improving that area, makes sense.

For the colonization of a new area to be so smooth that the kingdom can divert its attention to some OTHER area -- not so much (to me, at least).

Was this intentional? Or was this an oversight?

Thanks!
Franklin

Reconnoiter Hex is sending out a group of people to explore the hex for you, nothing about the Hex itself is changed. It's organizing people, not a physical change to a Hex.

Sounds like you are comparing your new Activity more with Hire Adventurers than the other Activities that I had mentioned. That seems fair, also.

My other concern (one I did not remember to specifically mention in my previous post) is one of timing. By lumping your new Activity into the Region category, that prevents a kingdom from mapping a hex and then annexing it in the same Turn. Your way, the kingdom could have the hex mapped in the Leadership step, and then either Claim the Hex or else Clear the Hex (if needed) in the Region step, but both within the same Turn.

Now, if the PCs decided to explore and/or clear the hex themselves that "Turn" (i.e. that month, before doing kingdom stuff), then, yeah, they could also map, clear, and then claim this hex all in the same turn. So, my second concern isn't a major one, but I still wanted to toss it out there for examination.

Thanks!
Franklin

I hate to be a party-pooper, but your new Activity "Reconnoiter Hex" seems far more to be a Region Activity, and not a Leadership one.

Clearing a hex, claiming a hex, building something within a hex (farms; work sites; roads; a new settlement) -- all of those are Region Activities.

Franklin

Take Charge (Trained) (General Skill Activity):

(snip)
You can never use the same skill for this activity twice in the same Kingdom turn.

Is that "You" the PLAYER (Leader)? Or the Kingdom as a whole?

Thanks,
Franklin

That's actually a decent compromise, too. My only concern with both of those systems is that it would end up with kingdoms having stats higher than the intended ceiling.

I don't see how. With my compromise, you get a max. of +2 bonus, no matter how highly skilled and/or how advanced your PC's stats.

Please elucidate.

Since only the highest bonus within a category can be used, you could actually combine these various options. For example...

If the PC had a +1 stat bonus in a relevant attribute (such as Charisma for any position, really), he gets a +1 Circumstantial bonus when rolling directly for his leadership position. If his relevant stat bonus is actually +4 (or greater), then his circumstantial bonus is a +2 instead.

At the same time, if he has expert rank in a relevant skill, he gets a +1 circumstantial bonus with his leadership position, which gets jacked up to a +2 bonus if his relevant skill is Legendary (as above).

But since these are both "circumstantial" bonuses, he gets _only the better one_ (not both). Thus, a PC with more modest stats but good training can _still_ help his kingdom by being a "good fit" for a given position, just as well as the other PC who has better "potential" (i.e. attributes) but less training.

Just a thought.
;-)
Franklin

Kingmaker Player's Guide page 18:

"Note that when certain companions detailed in the Kingmaker Companion Guide hold the leadership roles listed in their entry in that book, those roles are automatically invested; this is in addition to the four roles the players choose to invest."

You're right; I forgot about that. ;-)

Negative -- you invest up to four (4) roles.

The Adventure Path actually mentions the possibility of having more than eight (8!) PCs, in one specific rule. If memory serves, this mention is when discussing filling out the kingdom's leadership roles.

Franklin

Is this particular thread still relevant enough to be pinned to the top of the sub-forum list (i.e., get "sticky" status)?

Seconded.

Ironically Excess farmland turning into Food production is a house rule I'm considering for my personal game.

Well, since I've stole-- err, "borrowed" a few of your ideas that you've posted hereabouts, by all means please feel free to borrow one of my own!

While you're looking at these rules, I'd think of how they interact with warfare. Specifically: How enemy armies can be used to block a kingdom's food and taxes production just by being in the way, and how you can reduce an army's consumption by ordering it to pillage whatever area they are in (damaging or destroying the infrastructure in the process).

Well, as it so happens . . .

I have amended the rules for the Pay Consumption sequence. I do not like the idea that "surplus reduction of Consumption" does NOT equate "gain Food Commodities" in the Rules-as-Written (RAW).

(Also, I like the idea of Farms being OK adjacent to Village hexes, which is historically accurate, so there's that as well.)

Wanted to share this idea, and see what others may think of it.

Thanks,
Franklin

(Turn Order)
Sequence 1.4, Upkeep Phase, Step 4: Pay Consumption

These "house rules" are an amendment to (and/or replacement for) the "official" rules in the Kingdom Building rules within the Adventure Path.

Calculate the total Consumption of all of your settlements as usual, as well as the total Consumption of all of your armies, and combine these as your kingdom's Total Consumption.

Then, calculate the number of (eligible) Farmland hexes within your kingdom. That is, count up the number of Farmland hexes within the Influence radius of one (or more) of your settlements or ("house rule") are merely adjacent to one of your settlements, and label this count as your kingdom's Available Food.

If your kingdom's Available Food is greater than its Total Consumption, then you receive the difference as an amount of surplus Food Commodities. (Any such Food Commodities in excess of your kingdom's capacity for Food storage are lost as usual for Commodities.)

On the other hand, if your kingdom's Total Consumption is greater than its Available Food, then label the difference as your kingdom's Unmet Consumption. For each point of Unmet Consumption, you must do one of the following:

* Spend 1 Food
* Spend 5 RP
* Gain 1 Unrest

And finally, if your kingdom's Total Consumption and Available Food are equal, then you have precisely met your kingdom's Consumption needs for this Turn, with neither any surpluses nor any deficits.

Here are the relevant DCs that I've tentatively come up with, for the different types of terrain. Please note that I've included all of the "standard" types of terrain, not just he ones specifically available in the Stolen Lands, in anticipation of making my rules for Kingdom Building as open-ended as possible.

DC 25 for Arctic
DC 22 for "Badlands" (combination of Desert and Hills)
DC 20 for Desert
DC 15 for Forest
DC 15 for Hills
DC 20 for Mountains
DC 10 for Plains
DC 25 for Swamp
DC 25 for Underground
DC 18 for "Wooded Hills" (combination of Forest and Hills)

I'd appreciate hearing your thoughts on these numbers.

Thanks,
Franklin