EdwinM's page

Who: Acacia, Gnoll Laughing Shadow Magus
When: Book 2, Froglegs' camp
How: the group was unable to sneak over to Kolbo's hut and a fight broke out. Kolbo and Acacia got into a bit of swamp-shoving competition, which alerted Ol' Thrasher. Unfortunately for the group, Acacia was the one that got into the water next. The croc bit her, held her tight in its jaws, she was unable to wrest free and unwilling to spend a focus point and teleport out. Thrasher was happy to death roll her to death the next round. The few remaining body part uneaten by the croc were recovered by the weeping party bard afterwards.

Don't hoard your focus points folks!

tl;dr: 4 > 5 = 6 > 2 >>> 3 >> 1

The story in 1 is just silly, with the call for heroes, goblins a few miles from the town unable to contact anyone. the big boss ralldar comes out of nowhere (but is cool) and the real boss is a wimp (and also kind of comes out of nowhere).

3 would be good with some more roleplaying/investigating stuff, but as it stands, it's a (mostly) linear sequence of battles. Quarry was fine, though.

2 is welcome change of pace, with both RP opportunities, hexcrawling, and cool combats (the dreaded mine especially).

6 is fun, the gauntlet at the beginning is challenging, the intrigue in promise a nice culmination, mengkare one of the best villains of Pathfinder, and the final chapter just OK (Dahak being way underpowered, though).

5 is great. It fleshes out Katapesh nicely (much better than Kintargo in 3 was), subquests there are fun (especially the camel one), and Red Pyramid is a well-designed dungeon.

4 is even better - Saggorak/Kovlar is an amazing place and the intrigue there well designed. Veshurimix is a cool villain too.

My players' opinions vary. Each one of them preferred a different book (including 3, 4, and 2 - but I changed a lot in 3 as a GM).

it's me again!

Name of PC: Tenda
Class/Level: Goblin Battle Oracle 18
Adventure: Broken Promises
Catalyst: incinerated into fine ash by a balor's death throes
Story: one of two newly acquired party members fought valiantly in defence of Breachill, against giants and siktemporas, but the explosion following balor's death was too much. Two critical failures resulted in Tenda turning into fine ash, with only a general's skull (the source of his curse) remaining.

Name of PC: Melltyn
Class/Level: Elf Conjuration Wizard 20
Adventure: Broken Promises
Catalyst: soul sucked by Mengkare's memory's shadow self
Story: the barbarian, still disappointed after missing the chance to fight Mengkare proper, taunted his memory in Vengegate Node, which of course turned him into a wyrmwraith. The wizard did not like that, and what he did not like even more was rolling a crit fail on a save against the creature's breath, even with foresight. Fortunately, his pale orange rhomboid activated and saved his sorry ass.

3) Cyborg Kevoth-Kul: The Kevothinator.

GIVE ME YOUR CLOTHES, YOUR BOOTS, AND YOUR +3 GREATSWORD.

A Numerian AP centered on the Dominion of the Black would be my wish. But really anything at all - I'm GMing Iron Gods in 2e now and I'm having a blast.

AlastarOG wrote:

Mind you I had adjusted her already by giving her at will miracle and improved evasion.

Even with that she was kind of a pushover.

My suggestion would actually be to make her retinue stronger, the level 18 astradaemon got zapped in two spells, maybe get some level 19 or 20 daemon in there.

This is the final fight of the adventure, I kinda expected my players to use at least one or two of their elixirs of true life, but they didn't.

Oh, good point! I hadn't really considered changing them up. The Astradaemons are thematically fitting, but even with the Elite template the Agents should mop them up quick.

If we go with daemons, the only higher level ones are the Purrodaemon (doesn't really fit thematically), Agradaemon (also doesn't fit thematically), and the Olethrodaemon (real big, level 20 might be too much). We could add some Crucidaemons which seem on-brand, but they're only level 15. Looking back to PF1 daemons we could get the Phasmadaemon (CR 17, embodies death by fear, could help with illusions) if you'd like to translate it to PF2 (most could be a 1-to-1 translation, but when in doubt I'd go with the PF2 elite Astradaemon's higher stats, like for AC).

The Agents have already fought him at this point, but bringing the Stabbing Beast back in to protect Norgorber's high priest certainly makes sense. Problem is Stabby is only level 15, so he'd be taken out quickly.

Other monster options of level 17 or higher that seem appropriate include: an Adamantine Golem stolen by Terimor or a Hatred Siktempora that favors Norgorber? All the other 17+ monsters seem too strong (especially the level 20 ones), would never work with Terimor (at least willingly), or don't make sense given the situation (why is a Kraken at the top of Terimor's Tower?). A Grim Reaper or Rhevanna could work, but they're level 21 so that's a tall order to fight more than two.

If you're so inclined, you could get to homebrewing new minions for Terimor. I personally like the idea of bringing in...

What about Agents of the Gray Queen? They're basically beefed up Astradaemons and they're right there outside in the city.

Name of PC: Jinx
Class/Level: Ratfolk Alchemist (Chirurgeon) 11
Adventure: Tomorrow Must Burn
Catalyst: Death through Multiple Wounds and Persistent Damage during the fight with Barushak and his goons
Story: the group was assaulting the Tanessen Tower, and one of the scarlet triad poisoners managed to flee and alert Barushak. Of course, all hell broke loose. Most of the bloody combat took place on the stairs, where both the evangelists, thugs and the heroes (sans the invisible wizard) were grouped. Barushak, however, skirted around and flew in from the other side. His two Cones of Cold, along with the persistent bleed from his velstracs were enough to put poor Jinx down. As he was the main healer, there was not much the others could do, and after exhausting all possible battle medicines and potions, the brave ratfolk finally bled to death.
His body was preserved by magic and returned to Breachill and buried in the graveyard of the Great Dreamhouse, where he was raised and lived before taking part in the ill-fated adventure.

oh yes it's a double post!

Name of PC: Sir Tusk Vukas
Class/Level: Orc Dragon Barbarian 7
Adventure: Cult of Cinders
Catalyst: Multiple puncture wounds

After successfully dealing with the surface guardians of the mine (released mokele-mbembe on the butchers, talked Hezle down, killed everything else), the party decided to tackle the mine itself.
The first move was the Melltyn the wizard dispelling the dragon pillar's magic. Then it all went kinda downhill. Two naunets and a azuretzi (added since I have 5 players) instantly dimension door'ed to the wizard and dropped him to 0 HP, while the miners charged up the ramp. Dyri the ranger dropped down to set up some snares, but was quickly surrounded and knocked unconscious along with his wolf. Tusk the barbarian and Greeble the rogue were valiantly fighting everything coming their way, with Jinx the alchemist healing them with his medicine and potions, but there were just too many.
With just a single charau-ka butcher, the azuretzi, and a few boggards and worms remaining, and everyone in the party at dying at least once, Sir Tusk Vukas finally succumbed to a lucky critical hit from the butcher's trident. In total, Tusk was dealt about 350 points of damage and was Wounded 4 at that time.
The rest of the party managed to survive and defeat the last of the cultists, thanks to the rogue having some cleric spells and the alchemist climbing down and getting the ranger back up. They were left with a grand total of 35 Hit Points between all of them.

not technically dead, but defeated so it should count:

Name of PC: Anastasiya Vrochi
Class/Level: Half-Elf Druid 8
Adventure: Cult of Cinders
Catalyst: Opening a door (and generally not being very smart)

Name of PC: Nobby
Class/Level: Halfling Fighter 8
Adventure: Cult of Cinders
Catalyst: Having Anastasiya open a door

Name of PC: Eliara
Class/Level: Half-Elf Cleric 8
Adventure: Cult of Cinders
Catalyst: Having Anastasiya open a door

Story: The party gathered to strike at the heart of the cult and assault the Fortress of Sorrow. They managed to distract Sweettooth with a lot of meat, but also critfailed on their stealth to get close and got the attention of the guarding boggards. Seeing their covert attempt blown, they just stormed inside... and awoke the golem. The Wizard managed to recall knowledge on it and learn its magic weakness. The Druid started flinging crushing wave at it with the Rogue stabby-stabbing. Then the druid did something that spelled doom for everyone: opened the door to the smithy and turned into a dinosaur. What happened next was the druid going down first and very quickly, then the fighter, then the cleric. A few of the boggards did die, but otherwise it was brutal (I did roll great too). The rogue managed to escape, and the wizard (after unsuccessfully trying to resuscitate Ana) followed suit while invisible.

I gave my players a choice: their characters would either die (and they'd simply roll new ones) or be captured by the cultists for interrogation (and the remaining heroes could recruit some temporary reinforcements to free their 'main' characters). They chose the latter, so we'll have some rainkin demon hunters extravaganza next week!

Would quick shield block from fighter/bastion stack with quick block from champion? They're the same (function), yet not quite the same (naming), so I'm not sure.

Cyouni wrote:

Or maybe people were done with the era of "casters win games, everyone else need not apply".

...which leads to the "Thank goodness the casters were kneecapped so hard, that's a feature of 2e, not a problem" vibe that is so prevalent on these forums.

It's not a matter of "casters win games" that we all want, it's "casters actually matter for more than buffing and healing the martials."

But they do matter. I had wizards do boatloads of damage and turning encounters around and witches crippling enemy bosses to a point an extremely dangerous enemy becomes a walk in a park. And those are supposed to be the weaker casters.

EdwinM wrote:

I don't want to be anal retentive, but Ravingdork isn't the one that started the thread (neither am I).

Actually, you need to be just a bit more anal retentive, and figure out what main account used that alias to start the thread. :-)

That's one of Ravingdork's board aliases. And he outs himself in this post.

You can easily tell by the red letters that the name is an alias. And if you hover your cursor over the name, it will display the name of the primary account.

Recall knowledge: lore: forum critical failure. Now I have to reread the thread.

EdwinM wrote:

Chancing upon a good, stable game requires luck.

I don't fully agree. I think the old Pasteur quote, "Chance favors the prepared mind," applies here.

Whether an individual, random game in isolation works out is mostly luck. But what happens long-term is not random. Let's say you're the GM when a player flakes. How you respond to that affects all the players remaining. If you're the type to badmouth the player that left, the remaining players will wonder what you're going to say about them when they leave. If you think [too much] about the 19 people who cycled short-term through your campaign and don't think at all about the 1 person who stuck with you the whole way through, you're kind of missing the big picture: that 1 person constitutes 25% of your next long-term game.

It's not just a numbers game, it's also about cultivating relationships with the people that have - for whatever reason - decided to stick with you.

You're mixing things up a bit. In the part you quoted I was specifically saying about my experiences as a player in free games. Obviously, as a premium DM the whole thing is completely different. I definitely agree that cultivating relationships with my players is extremely important. That's what I'm striving to do, and possibly one of the reasons that those that stuck with me did so even with all the rotating cast around them.

I wonder if there might be a better market for higher level games. If I'm playing with a group of newbie friends with little system knowledge or investment, starting at level 1 makes a lot of sense. Especially if it is a group I can count on to stay together.

But if someone wants to play Pathfinder specifically enough to pay for it, I bet they know the game and would be eager to try out higher level builds. Which is another mark against starting with APs.

Not necessarily. A solid part of my playerbase (one third, maybe?) actually consists of first-time PF2 players who wanted to try it out.

Of course, there surely are players who'd prefer to start at higher levels. Of course, they can always fill in as replacement players, but that's never as fun as creating a fresh group.

We can rationalize this all we want. You can refute all the feedback you're getting, but here's the thing. YOU came to the message boards to ask why so many of your players leave. We are giving you reasons why we think so. Either you accept it and change your business model, or you ignore it, keep doing what you're doing and probably getting the same results. If you actually want feedback, then take it for what its worth. If you don't then why ask?

We're telling you that the rate is may too high. You say it isn't. Let's assume that is true for a moment. That means there is another reason they are leaving. If the price isn't too high than either you have had a bad string of players (something no one can fix) or you aren't particular enough with your screening process or the game does not provide enough value for the price to keep them around. You cannot run the same quality game that people can get for free at hundreds of other online tables and charge them for it just because you want to earn a living from it. Players don't owe you a living. As mentioned up thread, as a GM you are an entertainer and the vast majority of people in that field are not successful and don't make a living at it.

We all wish you luck, but strongly recommend you change your approach to this endeavor.

I don't want to be anal retentive, but Ravingdork isn't the one that started the thread (neither am I).

Oh, as a fellow premium DM I completely understand your plight.

I have an Agents of Edgewatch game that is just cursed. Hemorrhaging players. Two players had to leave after just a couple sessions: one had to cut down on expenses, the other had work issues. Then another had to quit due to changing schedules. Then another drifted away. A few replacements didn't work out from the start and vanished before a single game could end. Another replacement ghosted after several games, while one more couldn't afford the expense anymore. Recently one ragequit due to a stupid misunderstanding (which might have been my fault, honestly). Two new players quit after a single game: one stated he did not vibe with the group, the other just ghosted.

So yeah, this is a mess. It's a pain. It's tiring and disheartening. Recruiting new folks for ongoing campaigns is always hard. But the few players that persevere are still happy to play, even with all the turnover. And it's the only one of my games that has these problems, as once a group coalesces, they tend to stick together. And I'm doing 5 campaigns right now, with a sixth on its way. For example, the other AoE campaign lost only a single player (and a short term 1-game replacement) in 6 months after some initial hickups.

So, do I have any good advice? Nope. I guess you have just endure. And in enduring, grow strong. But if the problems won't go away in more than a single campaign, maybe indeed starting with a smaller scale would be better. I don't know, never tried. Good luck.

I can't help but wonder, how does the cleric cast electric arc, which is only on the arcane and primal spell lists?

Ancestry feats.

Squad Nine got another casualty. And it's a champion again!
I guess splitting the party while fighting a meladaemon is not the best course of action. Who would have thought? You'd assume S9 would, especially after getting nearly TPKed in the bank what with having to fight everyone at once and all. But no. With half the party pursuing the escaping gangster, it was up to Ingenael (with some help) to stop the rampaging daemon. He did not.

I had the bar brawl and the patrol on day one, and the zoo completely separately on day two. Otherwise it really doesn't make much sense.

The real problem in the zoo is the ankhrav. Rust monster isn't a big threat when you have a blacksmith two metres from you, and the owlbear is tough but doable (one party straight up pulverized him while the other lured him back to his room and shut all the doors). But the ankhrav, oh boy, is TPK material. The players will likely be standing next to each other in a 2 squares-wide corridor, so the breath can get the whole group down to single digits. In both of my games, players went just NOPE after getting hit by it (and I rolled triple sixes once), barricaded the door and had to heal and devise an actual plan, so cutting the acid cone from his attacks might be a good idea.

I forgot to post it here so here we go, an updated version of House of the Planes using the layout from AP5, but less sad artwork.

Here

It's weird there's no thread for this here.

Please stop for a second in loving memory of Squad Seven. They weren't very good at guarding, and even worse at being detectives, but they tried and they had their hearts in the right places.
They charged into the shredskin room without proper preparations, fatigued, wounded. And they had abysmal luck when it came to rolls.
Sledge the human ranger and his ugly f!@#in' dog.
Quinland the human cleric, follower of Grohastha.
Iyanna the human barbarian with her oversized scythe.
Zapachus the gnome undeath sorcerer, who will never feed creepy demon spider children in the sewers again.

Also, Squad Nine. After Leon managed to open a window to get a peak inside the Chelaxian room, and got attacked by a barbazu, his rival Archus the half-elf paladin of Shaelyn was the first to help - and also the last to stay there. You could say he never really left the room.

The Skinsaw Sanctum Main Level map is absolutely horrid. I'm running this on a VTT and I'm not sure what the mapmaker was thinking to do with both levels like that, instead of splitting them.

I am actually remaking the whole map in Dungeondraft. I'll post it when I have it ready.

(And a whole other argument of Making the Kobolds protesting being underpaid unreasonable and extremely homicidal at the flip of a switch is a perverse mockery, especially given what’s going on now in real life.)

Absolutely agree. It's horrid.