Draelin's page

I don't see them expanding to other areas of golarion with the way the game is suppose to be pvp. Expanding to Kyonin, Galt, Brevoy, Numeria ect. Those things are heavily pve since everything is already there. The governments and cities, towns, people. They are all there. Technically the river kingdoms are filled with small kingdoms already. Just the Stolen lands being untaken. I don't see GW doing that. Not with a build your own nation thing. Now they may in fact do something stupid like hey you can invade and expand into Galt! then Taldor! or whatever. Most likely expanding into Iobaria. But I don't believe they would take the time to build a pve environment into all of avistan. Any other locations would be the under dark which would be more of a resource location where people duke it out for whatever resource rather than a pve environment. Same for any Planetary locations.
Now PFO from what I have read from blogs, posts ect, the game mechanics will not be anything like pathfinder. I read some weird story written by ryan dancey about hanging out at a pub/tavern whatever telling stories is what pathfinder really is about. Whatever. The game concept is a nice little pvp ,fantasy eve, minecraft, total war(mind set not actual mechanics) thing with a bunch of pathfinder golarion setting names written over it. You could change the names of the gods and locations and probably noone would recognize it was pathfinder.

Here is the deal... PvP is just like in real life... PVE is less like real life... In open world PvP it is easy to avoid (in Q'ing for battlegrounds it is not)... someone mentioned breaking line of sight... Think about all the ways you can avoid it (if thats your fancy)... I cast root and walk away (see ya later), I shoot you in the leg your snared (see ya later), I'm a warrior who can cripple/shoutfear/etc. (see ya later)... We can go on and on... at the end of the Day pvp 24/7 everywhere is what we put money into so take a deep breathe and evolve your gameplay tactics its a challenge can you overcome it ;)

Yet another example of a person bragging that pvp is better than pve. Real life game play? Please. PVP is as real and meaningful interaction as the likelihood of you hitting your heads on a brick wall until you knock yourself unconscious. I can play pvp just fine I choose not to play because I have little interest in it and the interest I do have I use to play first person shooters. The money that goes to that is the original game cost and the energy cost to power my systems. Not a monthly fee.

If they are here they have in a sense already purchased it. You are right to suggest it might be more honest to so advise them.

Yet an argument for the sake of bloodiest liberty should be given.

Those who have been bruised by previous encounters with griefing, or frightened by the mythos that has grown rightly around it, should take courage and defend what is theirs.

Many will not find it worth their trouble. Some might be liberated from their fear.

I would have to disagree with the assessment that they have already come to the decision to buy the MMO game. I'm here because I play a table top game called Pathfinder with most of the settings in Golarion and heard about an mmo being made. Not because I saw an interest in a new MMO that looks a ton like Eve online if not a straight up clone that is itching for a "sandbox" pvp dominated fantasy game.

I try to keep up on the decisions that GW puts out in blogs, and people posting on the boards. From the things I've read, on the PVP people who are the defensive their perspective PVP is better, "meaningful" (I personally have begun to hate that word) experience, It's whats happening if you don't want to join the game then leave we don't need nor want you, or some stupid thing like oh you can stay close to the cities, but you won't get the full "Meaningful" experience of the game, or join such in such guild/charter. Which is another messed up thing where it's going to come down to Join our guild or we will kill you or join our guild or they (previous guild) will kill you.
Now PVE players its, is there any PVE content at all? There is some, but not a lot and I must create the content for myself and other players which i bought a game which in most instances provide content. Though on the perspective on Minecraft like pve players such player created content is content with. When asked for an option to not do pvp it is a straight up no as the developers don't want to have to create more pve content to satisfy the average pve player.
Finally a thing I see is that if this game is successful there may be another Pathfinder MMO made closer to PVE that would satisfy PVE players. I doubt it, but there is always hope. Also dread that if the game is successful noone will make a pve oriented Pathfinder MMO, that is closer to the Pathfinder TT game, and if the game is unsuccessful noone will want to make a pve Pathfinder mmo.

No multiple characters per account? This game is looking worse and worse. I love playing multiple characters in an mmo. It allows me to see things in different prospective and build a character differently. Oh but you can if you pay more money.

Draelin wrote:

It's mostly the realization that GW is making a game I do no want to play with a world I love playing in, and there is nothing I can do about it. I don't want them to stop making a pathfinder game. I just want them to make a game that is more appealing to me.-snip-

Q: If you were able to design PfO anyway you wish (ignoring the licencing restrictions for now) what would be your "dream version" of PfO in mmorpg clothes? What advantages and disadvantages (to different types of players) could you envision and how would it be different from the current vision, or, what are the top 5 major features or system of PfO design that you find least appealing/most appealing?

It's an interesting question to ask of any mmorpg tbh.

I dislike the limited setting of only the river kingdoms, that's a very small sandbox its like a tardis on the outside very small but somehow big on the inside, I'd rather they do all of Avistan, then expand to the other continents.

Anything negative that a player can do to a player a npc monster can do that without griefing. PVP players will forever argue their gameplay will be more meaningful. Their way is better and should just except it or leave cause it ain't changing. This game Isn't for you its for us. this game may be set in a world you like but its mechanics is the way we like so deal with it.
The game is looking more closely to eve than pathfinder. The name should be Pathfinder in name only. I wouldn't even be writing anything if it weren't on the pathfinder game and would have ignored this game from the beginning, but it's somehow pathfinder and that pinches a nerve.
The mechanics of magic is looking sad. Magic played a MAJOR role in the kingmaker game I was in. I was a druid I remember running around the kingdom once a year in game time increasing the crop growth. If like they said the game would be equivalent to lvls 5-12 then there would be flying, transformations, moving the earth, rain down lightning and fire and all that stuff but will be dumb down so there can be "meaningful" pvp and no unbalance sorta like I don't know 4th edition dnd. The mechanics of spell books looks horrid, doesn't explain any other magic user other than an alchemist, witch who uses a familiar and a magus. Doesn't explain sorcerer, bard, cleric, ranger, oracle, druid, and paladin magic which don't rely on spell books. which goes into there being no classes just Badges like in pokemon. So the entire core mechanics the first chapters of the core rulebook of the Pathfinder RPG is not there or any alternate version to go around "copy rights". I don't see anyone suing wow for using paladin, or rogue, or druid... You could still have a class system, without a lvl system. There would still be advancement with "skills" just that classes have other skills like "trained" skills other people could still do them but just not as good as that other guy, but you have skills you are good at that they aren't.

What I do like is that it's set in Golarion, I do like the ideas they have for PVE even though it is incredibly limited. I'm willing to except the losses of equipment. I'd even except limits of pvp to wars between kingdoms and guilds and towns because that is avoidable, but that's not going to happen because it will limit the pvp to groups and we know how they love that core mechanic.

The blogs have the answer, but most people either ignore it or missed it, because there was a bunch of discussion on the topic. Blogs around 3-6 are probably the best to read, and contain the most information that is constantly repeated on these boards.

Short version:
Stop thinking of PFO in terms of Pathfinder mechanics. Attributes effect how well you train skills attached to them. If you have high strength you are not stronger, you are able to get stronger faster. Someone with a lower strength can become as strong as you, but they must work at it longer.

The only way I can see PFO working well is if they divorce the mechanics of the RPG and make their own systems. One game is turn based strategy, the other is real time combat. The 'flavor' that is retained should be mostly the lore, setting, and the general idea behind most spells, like 'fireball' casts a fireball.

Then they should be calling it Golarion Online or River Kingdoms Online since its limited to that small part of it.

71gamer wrote:

Draelin wrote:

It seems to me then that they want to make the ground works for a game but leave all the content to the players. Why build a game when the players can do it like build towns, cities, and guilds. Why waste our time and money when we can charge them to do it for us! Why make conflict when the players can fight themselves!

That's another unappealing thing, simply having other players in the MMO isn't creating a compelling reason to play. Where's the progression, the fun things to do, the things that make me want to log in every night. I hope this isn't just going to be PVP minecraft.

In other words, you're asking: "where's the themepark MMO?"

That is exactly what you are describing, and exactly the opposite of what Goblinworks is aiming for. The core philosophy of everything they've put together so far is the exact opposite of what you are asking for, so where exactly is this conversation going?

It's mostly the realization that GW is making a game I do no want to play with a world I love playing in, and there is nothing I can do about it. I don't want them to stop making a pathfinder game. I just want them to make a game that is more appealing to me. Most of the people who disagree with me are getting the game they want to play. This kind of argument would be going around if the game were to be designed closer to a PVE kind of game with the PVP people demanding for more content geared towards them. Personally I wouldn't mind the existence of the building system they want and for the PVP in non combat terms with all the competition between guilds and corporations Capitalism whatever. And losing stuff when you die or even the idea of a Monster that loot bodies they kill and people looting bodies that were killed by monsters. I know that's not going to happen. It's sad, but oh well.

That's not a compelling reason to play. It's a reason to stop and look around a realize you are paying to work. And having a guy who helped make UO one of there biggest PVP games on earth to try and justify this is not compelling me to see their reasoning. You can say as much psycho babble you want. They had a million things to do in Eve and I could hardly play a couple months before I got bored to death and realized I was working... And that's what GW is trying to reproduce.

Draelin wrote:

OneBoot wrote:

If not, I'm seriously considering withdrawing my pledge (and I've been incredibly excited about and supportive of this project since the beginning), since it would not be enjoyable to me at all if I will have to spend all of my time huddled in the safe confines of town so my non-threaded stuff won't keep getting destroyed.

Please educate yourself on the options available and look for possible solutions before demanding that everyone play your way and threatening to take your ball and go home if they don't. This is a community, and most of us would rather build and find solutions with you than to tear you or the game down.

Aren't you then demanding this person to find a way in their head to play it the way pvp people want?

That's what's bothering me—no way to opt out of the pvp. And if it's meant to have heavily-discouraged pvp (branding people as bandits, etc) why bother with the clunky weird mechanics and just allow folks to flag themselves as PVE. I

personally don't want to run to mommy/guild/friends every time I get ganked and ask for help with revenge or pay a bounty. And if this pvp-with-penalties is SO much a part of the game, as so many people are saying:

Blaeringr wrote:

Setting up a PvE server will completely undo most of the game they have proposed.

Then it doesn't sound like there's much of a game there.

It seems to me then that they want to make the ground works for a game but leave all the content to the players. Why build a game when the players can do it like build towns, cities, and guilds. Why waste our time and money when we can charge them to do it for us! Why make conflict when the players can fight themselves!

If not, I'm seriously considering withdrawing my pledge (and I've been incredibly excited about and supportive of this project since the beginning), since it would not be enjoyable to me at all if I will have to spend all of my time huddled in the safe confines of town so my non-threaded stuff won't keep getting destroyed.

Please educate yourself on the options available and look for possible solutions before demanding that everyone play your way and threatening to take your ball and go home if they don't. This is a community, and most of us would rather build and find solutions with you than to tear you or the game down.

Aren't you then demanding this person to find a way in their head to play it the way pvp people want?

Whats the point of the game if it looks like you are working. I'm here to play not work. And if it is the players who are doing all the work to have fun it better be a free game cause I'm not going to pay money so I can be someone else entertainment. Hell if its like that they should be paying me. That's one of the things I hate about "player" driven games. What am I going to be paying for? Graphics? From what the demo looked it was horrible. Gameplay? It looks to be like an eve clone and (im not even talking about the pvp) which when I played was utterly boring. I was more entertained at the job I was working at and I was getting payed.

So I will be able to opt out of pvp? If not it is catering only to pvp.

This game will only cater to pvp. simply put unless you can opt out it is only for pvp players which will turn away a lot of people. Trying to convince a person who likes pve to enjoy pvp is like having it the other way around. Pvp players are getting their way. Oh there a "penalties" to killing a player. oh how fun. The only way to get rid of pvp is not to have it at all or only option for the players who want to pvp and leave the pve people out of that equation just not out of the game as this game seems to be going. As a I said before it is only catering to pvp players. It saddens me that a game world I like like pathfinder brought to the online gaming has to be ruined for me by a bunch of pvp lovers. I hate how people say well this game isn't for you. Well it should. It should be for EVERYONE. Not just for a bunch of pvp. The whole game as I've seen it is catered only to the best fittest players who can kill anyone who gets in their way. The people who start playing first will have the early advantage of building up in this "Sandbox" creating a system like where you have two big "Kingdoms" controlling the game.

Thanks, and good luck to all the winners

Mask, Secret Mask
Aura moderate (no school); CL 10th
Slot head slot; Price 11,000 gp; Weight - lbs.
Description
This mask can be made of different kinds of materials be it metal, leather, ceramic, or even wood. But the defining
feature is that the mouth is never open. When worn, the mask prevents you from uttering a single word from your mouth.
It takes a standard action to put on, or remove, but when worn you gain a +2 enhancement bonus to stealth checks.
Once per day, you may speak a command word and be under the effect of pass without trace spell for 10 minutes. If you
remove the mask the effect ends.
If Norgorber is your patron, the mask can be worn as your holy symbol and the wielder can cast up to three spells per day
without verbal components as though using the Silent Spell feat.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wonderious Item, Silent Spell, Pass Without Trace; Cost 5,500 gp

I have no real opinion on the retired characters change. I do not like the change to the module rules. If anything It should be an option and not a requirement. Simply because a bunch of people complained about something that I actually like about playing and running modules for pfs.
Why should I who liked that rule with modules have to play it the new way? Do I have to complain about it being hard to get it changed back? If I were to complain about that you in all reality would not change it back. You wouldn't care.
That's why I feel you should make it an option. If a player wants to make it harder on themselves then let them. Don't throw it on everybody simply because you've got some complaints.

I was wondering If I could get a copy of the Conversion?