Dice_Castor's page

Here is a situation I can see coming up, but do not know what to expect as a player or how to rule if I were DM:

My 9th lvl (good) Cleric with 24 Wisdom prepares his day's spells under the effects of Incence of Meditation and Candle of Invocation .
He then casts Imbue with Spell Abilitiy granting healing spells to each of his allies and consuming all of his 1st-4nd lvl spells...

By the rules of the system, how do the spells imbued to his allies behave if cast within the first hour?

How about after four hours?

A day?

Also, what happens with my remaining spells after the candle of invocation burns out?

Today's session was interesting.
There was synergy and calm, but also heated conflict and argument.
Many of the topics brought up on this thread appeared (both the anti-dm and anti-thisplayer stuff).

I want to tell more, but am going to request that my DM bring comment and summary of this recent session's experience - as I believe he may be most suited for this.

Hopefully, this thread may one day benefit someone else in a similar situation.

Again, I thank you all for your input, interest, time, and patience.
(yes, even you cireitose)

I would love to. However, my time and resources are scarce (I usually get a lift from a member of the group to the kind of nearby gaming location), and I the likelyhood that you are in the same region of Indiana - if in the state at all.

But yes, finals week for GM, I have obtained the PFARG, PFRPGBestiary, Adventurer's armory, and the pathfinder cronicles gods and magic book in the meantime.

Additionally, the "x feat is good for y" would be what I'm looking for. As I'm open for perspectives and ideas in general.

(side question: how do I know which books with "Pathfinder" in the title are from 3.5? As I have yet to figure that out...)

Also, should I create a separate thread for crowd-sourcing cleric ideas?

Please and thank you, as always.

Yeah... I've spent most of this weekend pouring over feat descriptions and spells and forums and such trying to figure out what to do for lvl 9 class and feat (figured out one last lvl in cleric will work. But I have no idea for feats). But every time I get momentum on an idea, I question whether it would be worth pursuing since I don't know if it'll pass.
I want Divine Interference and Destructive Dispel, but can't get those till lvl 11.

At this point in the thread and in time, most (all?) of my questions have been resolved. But I'm wondering if it would or wouldn't be bad to crowdsource some good ideas now. ( I can come up with some nice ones on my own
too, but it is all too possible that I might get to the table and have my idea get needed/derailed. Then I'll have to start all over again.)

...I should email my DM a request for specifics and limits. (he keeps saying any paizo but run it by me first, and I am having trouble working like that).

In the meantime, would it be useful to list my character specifics for some character workshop?
I figure there's a specific place on the forums for that sort of thing, though I haven't looked intensively yet (only phone internets for me). So if it would be better to do that somewhere else, I'll happily take directions...

I want to play my character AND get along well with the group. I like them and we work well together. But my concern is that if I challenge too much (challenge everything is my nature), it will result in problems.

But for now, the battle is on hold, the party is resting, and there's a great big swarm of trouble waiting just outside the gates [spioler= in game and out] a large number of Shocky Lizards in game, and discussion with DM out of game. [/spioler]

Update and clarifications:

Last session went over well. Though I didn't bring up or push any of my concerns, because we were in the middle of a large scale conflict

It was the session before that that my character Dice was spawned un-game and used spells like Barkskin and Shield to increase AC and Ancestral Gift to get a Bane(enemy that killed my brother) weapon that would be more suitable to avenge with than my trusty Silver Morningstar +1 (worships Milani, and essentially used to fighting devils. DM & I chose the weapon because it would be appropriate.).

Earlier, via email, I mentioned that I was planning on using Ancestral Gift to get that raping - he required I pick one weapon that will ever be called via the spell (because I was generalizing the spell that's usually dwarven), then later that I could "unlock" more weapons with level up. So the spell would function as a sort of weapon locker that, when used - calls a weapon that I've already "made" or a new weapon (up to the limit imposed by level growth).

Then at the table (session before last) after buffing up my AC and getting the weapon and then lots of fighting, he said I could no longer use the spell. Which was disheartening, as my only other weapon is a +1 silver morningstar. (just to note, I got to keep the more useful Bane weapon for the duration of the spell, but would never again be able to use it.)
Throughout the entire battle, I got hit once

clarification : I used a borrowed cleric for a couple sessions, then he was phased out and replaced by my first character Dace - who then died from a crit that took me from full health to most definitely dead dead.
THEN I made Dice, my hopefully epic (and more conscientious) battle cleric.

My DM has seen this thread, and we will talk about it sometime soon (finals are this week, so... Yeah). My biggest concern is that one then both of us will get in a heated argument which won't lead anywhere good for me.
I think he's worried about bad players (in the past, he ran a campaign that had infighting for the party - none of those players now present - and felt it was a bad experience).
I forgot to mention that another rule to character creation was that each party member had to be "noble" as he put it. Which ammounts to saving the damsel over collecting the treasure hoard if it comes down to a one or other decision (and thus each character must be of the Good alignment. - which I agree with the idea but not the implications. (as I would normally pick a C/N character and yeah of course I'm a good guy. But that also meant I can't get Flexible Channeler which would allow me to use negative and positive energy.). But I agreed, and accept this decision.

@marshmallow:

But it happens, I've had DMs who just plain say no as soon as they hear something, or see something that they don't want to look up, then they just say no to everything else you try and bring up from then on.

This is not my DM. He's not as well read as I (since I spent several contiguous days reading material and figuring out mechanics, not normal - I know - but thats ok to me), but he is experienced and willing for the most part.

Elsewhere, I started this thread to acquire different perspectives and find a better understanding myself. Maybe I'll be a little more able to competently conversate with the DM on my goals and ideas now.

Thank you all for your contributions, it has been quite helpful thus far.

Now on a computer (rather than cruddy mobile).

One thing I've noticed (and the party members who's computer I am using has also observed) is that conversations between the DM and I are at this point... kinda difficult now.
Some personality clash between the two of us. I respect him (and I think he respects me as well), but we get riled up and he kinda locks down (and I don't easily give up).

I'm inviting him to the conversation now, though I don't know when he'll see it.

I realized just now that I was kinda banking on Ancestral Gift for my character's in combat strategy. I had previously learned about the Guided weapon property, a +1 enhancement. And was (before getting the spell nerfed) planning on casting it each day to get a guided weapon for general use.
This campaign (or maybe DM, not sure) is conservative on magic item availability (which is ok as far as I understand it). But my new char is about to reach lvl 9 and came into existence with DM provided equipment.
I knew from experience making a char and in game so far that getting the equipment I want (I want too much, I accept that) was not going to happen.

So I was banking on Cleric spells as a stopgap between entrance and finding/buying real equipment. I still don't know what is appropriate for starting in as an 8th lvl char and I don't want push with equipment requests at start, so I figured this was a good solution.

@ciretose: I attempted to fit my characters into the story, but the info provided was either limited or slipped past my understanding. What I'm working with now is that Dice was essentially off in his own campaign elsewhere (Inner Sea relm i think... VS the EVIL Chelish empire and such)and arrived to retrieve and revive brother who died at the hands of an Ogre. My character's motivations and back story are better than the first one.

As far as I understand, my party finds back story or more so motivation is important.

...my original character concept was (what I thought would be) a monk/cleric. Hand to hand , agile fighter who heals and helps. But after study learned healing is a losing game, and more study (and DM cooperative work) that a h2h divine mystic is not mechanically feasible within PF.

I should probably add a few things.

I joined this group in January, they meet once a week for 7hr sessions.
They were taking turns managing Doctor, which I took over and used for a couple sessions.
The Barbarian that exists now was not there when I joined, but was made with the feat that has the mechanic of "every time you power attack you intimidate" (paraphrasing) - which was shot down at the table because the DM claims it would be burdensome (looking up will saves and extra dice rolls every attack). I see this as somewhat plausible (i don't know the specifics), but a substitute suggestion was not made - just a no.

I started with a cleric (also of milani) who was not mechanically min/maxed, but I thought had high enough AC to make a difference (it didn't), but it was a 90hp crit that killed him anyway. My character was backstory weak, as all of my characters will be (i just don't understand it yet).

That sucked, but made an opportunity for me to have a real hook to my next character - Dice (also cleric), previous character's brother.
I wanted to make a similar cleric with different background who was not just a clone of the last char. I wanted to stand on the frontlines and not take every hit sent my way (35 AC), and I didn't want to lose this awesome roleplaying opportunity to random chance critical (we lost two npc's during the next battle due to oneshot crits) - so... Fortified Armor Training.

Yes, my new char is more min/maxed. But what else can I do, when 24AC (last char) didn't matter during the encounters I saw.
I'm well read. I studied everything I could before making each char (maybe 20-40 hours for first char, sever hours each week between play, and the one week I had for substitute character Dice). I had to know what can be made before I produced my character.
I often read on these boards and heard in person the talk of "character vision" and other pure roleplaying ideas, which are cool but I have trouble with.

I'm a mathematician (in college studying to teach). I don't think it is unreasonable to read up and try to make a character that will survive the harsh environment we are playing in, and as I see it - anything less than "really strong" is going to die.

I'm not trying to beat the DM, or outshine the party. I'm trying to participate in a game I've never gotten to play, have fun, and be useful to the group.

I lost my train of thought...

Also, ciritose - you're kinda being a butt now. I don't appreciate the attitude, and I think you're making some unfair assumptions about me.
Though I welcome your contribution to this discussion (I need all the perspectives I can get), I'd appreciate if you toned down the angrymeanstuffs.

I have a 7cleric/1vindicator.

I'd reccomend not spending other levels on fighter or other classes besides the two you already have, as it would lower your caster level further.
With right application of cleric spells + full plate + Vin shield, one could get AC above 35 (I took the defense(protection) subdomain to get Barkskin and Shield).

There is a cleric guide out there that recommends Stalwart Defender levels to become an AC god (at which point you're still as much a caster as a paladin).
You might say AC doesn't matter if you get critical'd, and to that I'd recommend the feat: Fortified Armor Training (and carrying extra shields).

Reach is wonderful because you can cast low level spells from a mile away (+1 spell lvl per range incriment).

Question: would it be wise to invite my GM to this thread?
I'm thinking it could be helpful for me.

@ciritose: I believe I understand your perspective and generally agree. But I am not the player that you describe. The group has welcomed me (i made friends, yay!) and are pleased with my character (I'm pretty sure) even though I'm not a band-aid despenser, which was their earlier expectation of the cleric's role. ...though occasionally I still occasionally hear the "why don't you stand back and heal the tank (the barbarian who *always* gets hit)"...

@various responses: the DM and I agree that Ancestral Gift is (may be in my hands) over-powered (as is, I would have it prepared daily) . Read the description.
The strongest advantage comes from letting one get a Bane(critter) weapon that suits the situation (which I love the idea of). The DM argues that this function is more powerful than the same level spell Greater Magic Weapon and that I am not a dwarf so can't cast it. I argue that (the book specifies) any cleric can use it (with fluff) and -> as a cleric spell, I can use it, as clerics can prepare and use any cleric spells.

I want it known that being "required" to be a cleric (is true, but) is not an issue now, as I've come to enjoy it.
And Milani is an awesome deity, I think. Focusing on freedom and hope, I would ve a follower of Milani IRL (...if I were to be a follower of anything)

I must get to a computer so I can respond further. Thank you all again!

Wow, more responses! Thank you too!
I shall reply further in a bit.

Woo!
First forum post (for me, ever) and lots of helpful responses and perspectives. Hurrah! And thank you for what was given so far.
I'll see what I can answer right now (I don't have all the info on hand) and maybe see if my DM wants to join the conversation.

BBTroll:
My char is Human.

The party contains: Pel - a halfling bard6/pfCronicler1/ranger1 (he performs a lot and is the party's skill monkey when not wandering off on his own), Cy - human rogue6/fighter2 (sneak attack with occasional poison), Dron - Sward rural barbarian8 (high HP low AC cannon), there was a wizard but the player left and the character wandered off into oblivion.
Then there's me, Dice. 7cleric/holyVindicator1. I'm attempting to rely on high AC (35ish when buffer) and resourcefulness of items and spells (Ancestral Weapon) to be useful in many roles (AC tank, battle control, occasional heal).

The players of Dron and Pel are my age (late 80's kids) who are console&computer gamers and are playing their own Exalted game elsewhere (that I joined but has not begun yet).

The DM is a a seasoned tabletop gamer with experience playing and DMing in DnD before 3rd (i don't recall exactly how far, but has shown understanding of the original game )

The player of Cy is a long time tabletop (war) gamer who has certainly played the earliest versions of D&D.

A list of homerules is not currently available, but will be (re) requested.

S2412: there was reasonable (possibly more than) face time with the DM spent before creation of my char (which happened late in game) . He has been helpful and supportive and seems to be a generally good human.

Koloko: I had walked into a game store for the first time and charisma'd my way into the Pathfinder group. (So I was a complete stranger who walked in and asked about play, circumstance was in my favor. But they weren't going to let just anyone in.)
As a new player and one filling in a void, I was required to make a cleric or at least a character who *can* heal.
I accepted this as the condition for my entrance into the group. Now I like playing cleric now that I am familiar with it.

He's not all bad btw. Runs the game pretty well as far as I understand (first pen&paper rpg I've ever gotten to play). Powers up monsters though (may be bad, I'm on my second char as the first joined and quickly died to an Ogre general), but the enemies are fun (just really really dangerous... Like the party).

It just feels like there are more arbitrations going against me more than others (though I am the only remaining spellcaster.

Thanks in advance for reading, and the advice.

Questions first, then backstory.

1. Are non-core deities (namely - Milani) more powerful than core?

2. What is the impact of restricting a cleric to having (at most) one subdomain?

3. There are Dwarf only spells, and (fluff restricted) spells from race books... Are they over-powered?

3x. Summon Ancestral Guardian, Ancestral Gift, Blood Rage - are they too powerful for their level and need banned or adjusted?

4. I'm facing difficulties as a player interacting with my DM, what should I do to facilitate freedom and fun for me and peace with him?

Backstory (or, "bs"):
I'm not new to dnd, but am participating in my first campaign (so I never played, but am familiar with the system). The group I joined was 7th level characters in the Rise of the Runelords setting (no spoilers please), 8th lvl when I got to make my character.

I came in as the party's cleric (named "Doctor") was leaving,

required to make a cleric. This was difficult at first as I personally believe the need for a deity is a crutch in a world where magic can simply be born, but I did the work - found faith and drank the coolaid.

The rules for my creating a character were that it be a Cleric, must have deity, can use any Paizo source.

So I studied and made spell cards from a generator creating all cleric spells from all books available ( but not 3rd party stuff).

Apparently I'm what they call a min/maxer (a term I'm familiar with, as I'm a comp&console gamer). Though I disagree, it seems to be causing problems with the DM. Many of the ideas, combos, spells, various choices and whatnot that I've found from scouring the books (core, ult. Magic/combat/equip, race books, faiths of balance/purity/corruption) and the pfsrd have been knocked out on DM caveat.
Some agreed as fair, some seem unfair to me - some even biased against me.

Some rulings so far:
-can't pick two subdomains (cleric of Milani with Defense[protection] and Restoration[Healing] domains) -> reason: Miani is a 3rd party deity that is more powerful because it was added after core. And having those two domains is two powerful, proof (he states) is that I chose them.

-Ancestral Gift is more powerful than any other 4th lvl spell and (was modified, now...) is disallowed because I'm not a dwarf. (from Dwarves of Golarion, says it is not a dwarf restricted spell)

-no eastern weapons from ultimate combat (or was it equipment?) Because they're all over-powered.

...I'm having trouble dealing with having the rug pulled out from under me (there are other issues, but I plan or expect something to work within the rules - then he changes them), it is becoming less fun to play because of this.

I don't know what to do (besides manipulating the DM to personally like me more, which I can do but find unethical), please help.