Dawar's page

If you go with the Stranded option, check out Souls for Smugglers' Shiv (book 1 of Serpent Skull) for inspiration. It's a fantastic module about being stuck on a desert island that could easily be expanded into a larger campaign.

That adventure had a hand in kick-starting this actually. I was going through it because I liked the idea alot, but the implementation of the adventure wasn't too much to my liking, so I though "why not start from scratch!"

I will definitely be using it as a point of reference and might even steal a thing or two from it.

I would also recommend Stranded, but your permadeath thing seems flipped on its head. I'd expect no resurrection, but you can make a new character. If they can't make a new character and resurrection isn't guaranteed, you're just kicking players out of your group when their characters die, which is no fun and will cause hard feelings.

You're absolutely right that it's a dangerous game and when I presented the adventures to my player's I've made a point of making sure they really understand the ramifications of the rule. This is also why combat will be a bit more chill and no evil/chaotic neutral is allowed in the game. I'll probably also rule "no hidden information/resources", so no one can point fingers in case some one does die.

Even if someone does die, it's not really too bad. We all have several Pathfinder/Starfinder games we play together, so people won't be cut from gaming entirely. Also this game is only running the length of the play-test, so it's not a huge deal if someone dies, it's not a long game anyway.

It's an idea I had kicking around for a while that I wanted to test. I want to see how player's act in situations knowing that if their character dies, that's it. I think it will add a lot of interesting drama.

Also thank you for the feedback so far everyone!

That would, of course, be relevant if the adventures are based in Golarion. I don't see that being explicitly written anywhere.

You would be absolutely correct! These are not Golarion specific adventures, although they could be. Sorry about that, I should've been more specific.

While Doomsday Dawn makes for a great control group, I'm sure Paizo also wants to hear from GM's how easy/difficult it is to design homebrew campaigns using the new rules. As such some custom stuff would definitely be helpful.

That exactly my thought as well. I definitely think Paizo will focus on the quantitative data they'll get from Doomsday Dawn, but I also think they'll be interested in qualitative data from custom games. As well as testing out the modularity of the rules and how easy it will be to add in new rules systems could be important to Paizo because of third-party publishers and the OGL.

I think out of all of them, Stranded has the most merit because by it's very nature you will end up stress testing a part of the system I doubt Doomsday Dawn will: the crafting and survival rules.

I'm inclined to agree with you. Stranded also seems to be the most popular pick with my players, so there's that to.

For the duration of the Playtest I am going to run a game with a few friends and try to post feedback of the game on these forums (time permitting.)

The campaign will NOT be Doomsday Dawn, instead it will be a custom game that I am making for the purpose of this Playtest.

So I wrote up a few ideas and polished them a little and I wanted to present them here to see what particular parts of the new system people would be interested in us exploring for this Playtest. Each of the ideas stretches Pathfinder 2ed in different ways and some do it more than others.

Below the Synopsis of each "Adventure Path/Module" is a quick straw poll so anyone interested can vote for their favorite. I'm interested in what the people on this board want to hear about, especially the developers. In about a week, once I know what the people I play with want, I'll combine the votes here and the votes with my players to decide the game and start preparing.

Without further ado:

Straw Poll

Do you know what the rest of the party will be?

The only for sure character is an Elf Arcanist, the other two are undecided, but I can guess:

One is fond of Animal Companion classes, so he will tend towards a Druid or Cavalier; Maybe summoner if they feel like something new

The other one tends towards Alchemist and Monk(Zen Archer), I'm trying to push him out of his comfort zone into something new, but he'll probably go with his stand-by's

So the Party Comp:
Elf Arcanist
??? Druid/Cavalier/Summoner
Tengu? Alchemist/Zen Archer
Me

So far this is the build I went with (Up to level 7) Edit: I swallowed my pride and dipped bard a little for battle herald. The +2 Ref/Will and unimpeded Cavalier levels were just too good to throw away.

Still at a loss for what spells to pick though. Also would Horse Master be worth it? 9 is about the level land mounts start to fall off and that would be the earliest I could take it(, because Leadership is better.) Cornugon Smash and Gory Finish are also up there for feats.

How does your GM feel about third-party material?

Sorry for the late response. He's convinceable, but unlikely. I prefer trying to stay as close as I can to core anyway.

I know you said you did not want to play a Skald but honestly this may be the best choice. Take Perform Oratory and Perform Percussion. You are not so really a musician you give speeches.

Skald is a good choice, and Oratory would definitely be the way to go. I just wanted to keep the magic down for this character. It makes his extraordinary military feats feel all the more extraordinary that way (though that could just be my pride talking...)

Late to the party, but there's also a Gunslinger archetype (Mysterious Stranger?) that uses your Charisma instead of Wisdom for calculating grit.

Not at all! I still have time to make this character. I really like Mysterious Strange, but gunslinger is a bit of a one-trick pony and can mostly only dish out good damage under optimal circumstances. That damage can be amazing, but it does require set-up and a isn't very flexible.

Though a Gun-Totting Warlord gets some major style points, however.

All of the advice in this forum is really good, I think I'm going to try and compile it and edit it to the first post for anyone else interested in a character like this.

I really appreciate all of the really solid advice so far, I'll try to post the build soon (I think I'm going to go with Battle Herald, but Vigilante is up there.)

Kemuri Kunoichi wrote:

How about a Warpriest of Desna with the Divine Fighting Technique: Way of the Shooting Star feat? Lets you use Cha for hit and damage with a Star Knife, which is your favored weapon so its damage scales with your level.

Pretty sure that won't work for the OP since Desna is Good.

True but someone else could stumble upon this forum and find that build useful. And tangential builds could always lead to an interesting choice that no one had thought of, so I appreciate it all the same.

One way to qualify for Battle Herald is to go Brawler (Exemplar) which grants you Inspire Courage. For Challenge, you go Variant Multiclass cavalier.

My god, you are a godsend. This is exactly what I'm looking for, Thank you!

If your roll for social skill fails...switch to sword diplomacy and cut your enemies to ribbons like a Orc would. Words are for weaklings anyways...be a king and rule with Fear of displeasing your king.

That's the plan so far, though I do plan for more intrigue than brutal intimidation. Tyrants don't have the greatest lifespans...and it's more fun (personally) to run the gamut of social skills. I like having a tool kit I can pull from, rather than be a one-trick pony, even if that trick is really good.

Now, I don't know Kingmaker because I'm somewhat new to Pathfinder in general. HOWEVER, I would say that there's one very good class for becoming a ruler without having that restrict him, having a bunch of social skills and being a Charismatic Martial.

Vigilante.

Definitely one of the best options. It was also up there for me, but I wasn't huge fan of having separate secret identities, I imagine him more of an ambitious glory hound.

If you have the Villain Codex there's the Seasoned Commander Fighter Archetype, it gives you a greater skills per level while also making sense motive and Diplomacy class skills. It also grants access to the cavaliers tactician ability, in exchange for armour training, and a martial variant of the Bards various 'inspire' performance abilities which replace weapon training.

Sadly I do not, but that does sound like what I'm looking for. Is there a open resource version of it somewhere?

From all the advice I've narrowed my options down to:
Cavalier 2/Exemplar(Brawler) 3 into Battle Herald
Savage Technologist Barbarian
or Urban Destined Bloodrager

I'm not sure if my DM will allow VMC, but if he does, then that definitely adds more options

And Kingmaker is rather easy by default. I don't know whether your GM is up to significantly strengthen the encounters - if not, I wouldn't care too much about PC power.

Well that's good to hear, I feel like I can relax a little on the optimization then.

Barbarian/Bloodrager was near the top of the list when going over ideas, but the lack of a lot of the social class skills left something to desired. Savage Technologist could definitely be a solid choice and we're close enough to Numeria to maybe have tech come into play too (I know my DM loves tech from Iron Gods so it's definitely possible.)

I gave the fey-archetype summoner some thought, because I know fey come in at some point, but summoner still feels to casty. I had more of a "Take the land by the sword" type of conqueror in mind than "Take the land by my six sharpened squid appendages" conqueror lol.

I'm not super attached to a mount/animal companion, so I can go either way on that.

I'm going to be in a kingmaker game my friend is running soon and I wanted to play a martial character that would eventually take the role of Ruler. I know that Bard/Sorcerer/Oracle are the go to choices for this, but I really wanted to have a warlord feel to my character, sadly pathfinder doesn't take to kindly to the idea of Charisma martials that aren't Paladins.

After too many hours of research this is what I came up with:

It still feels too lackluster. Maybe it's just the power-gamer in me, but I feel like this character won't be able to hold their own, especially at higher levels. So I'm in need of build advice, I'm willing to change what I must, but with a few caveats:

Core Concepts - Things I Can't Change

• Is a Half-Orc: Being a Half-Orc Warlord sounds awesome to me and my DM has made a few concessions in the campaign to make this work, so I'm hesitant to change it. I could be willing to make a Human with Orc heritage however (Such as from the Arcane Heritage Feat), as my character is more of a 1/4th-Orc than 1/2-Orc
  
• Cannot be a Good Alignment: This is a campaign rule, our DM wanted us to be on the "Selfish" part of the alignment spectrum. I'm leaning towards NE, personally.
  
• Can give a bard a run for her money on Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, and Sense Motive: I want to get really into the political intrigue aspect of running an empire, so this seems mandatory.
  
• Is a Martial Character: This is just the character I want to play, so any class that gets 6th or 9th level spells are out.
  Sidenote: I'd rather not play a Skald. I dunno, the whole musician king just feels off to me, which is why I don't want to play a bard. I'd also like to stray from Anti-Paladin, as it lacks the same nuance in judgement calls the Paladin does that is often required of a Ruler.
  
• Has at least a 14 Charisma: I can't dump this stat or divert skills away from it, I want to be the Ruler so this is sadly a mandatory stat.
  
• No 3rd party material: Though I think I could finagle my DM into using old versions of classes/feats

Bonus: I'd rather not min-max on traits, as I feel those should really be used to define a character instead, but if I have to change them to make it work, then I will.

I'm open to anything else, at other points I was into Ranger but they lacked the necessary social skills (and I wan't too keen on the Dandy Archetype), I also toyed with the idea of a Rogue that goes into Noble Scion, but that seemed meh as well. Swashbuckler was a consideration at one point too, but that's just a bad class...

Greetings Travelers,

I've been trying to make a Divine Crafter of Brigh for my friend's Iron gods campaign and have essential hit a point in building this character where it feels like I'm just ramming my head into a wall.

This is less about making an optimized cleric and more about bringing a specific character concept into the game.

For the character I wanted him to be a human(kellid) that weild's a gear headed large hammer. His primary mission to Brigh is in the retrieval and protection of lost technology. I also wanted him to craft items(first magical then technological.)

Originally I had planned a Warpriest(forgepriest) to fit the concept, but it seemed a bit weak at levels 6+. Then I looked at Iron Priest(cleric archetype) but that seemed too feat and skill starved. Then I looked at a Metal Seeker Oracle, which is the best in terms of raw power, but I would much rather play a prepared caster.

- General character Concept (I'm willing to change any of these so long as it fits the character concept)-
Cleric(or follower) of Brigh
Spells and/or abilities that affect constructs
Reasonably good in combat (not necessarily the best, but good enough)
Uses a large 2h weapon in the form of a hammer (I'm willing to reskin similiar items to fit this description, right now I'm using an Earth Breaker for a base)
no reach cleric (though I am aware of this builds power)
Skills: Disable Device, Knowledge (engineering), and Spellcraft
Feats: Technologist, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Wondrous
Preferably a prepared divine caster

Any input would be appreciated, the crazier the better (not so crazy also works) and before anyone asks it's 20 point buy.

It's awesome to see a lot of great discussion going on in this thread. Also sorry for my lack of updates, I've been super busy. Don't expect anything major to change until after December.

Azten: Definitely, I'll get around to it sometime. Though it won't be much different the usual stealing from the summoner spell list strategy.

UnArcaneElection: It's awesome to see how much thought you put into this. All of your reviews of the bloodlines and archetypes are spot on. Though I'm not really sure how much I like the bloodrager route with the blade adept. Yes, you still get a bloodline progression, but your BAB still suffers unless you go into eldritch knight, at which point taking bloodline development is somewhat a waste. Not to mention being exploit starved (which turns into being even more feat starved.)

I'm trying to figure out how to make the blade adept a gish of it's own right. Something that feels different to the Magus, because if it doesn't then why play a blade adept? There's always the argument that at higher levels the blade adept wins out because of 7th+ level spells, but that's by virtue of being a better spellcaster, not a better gish. If a blade adept is built that way then it just plays like a gimped spellcaster rather than a true sword and sorcery character. That's the problem I've been trying to solve for the blade adept section, and why it's not done yet.

Sorry for the rambling

Letric: Now this is the type of feedback I'm looking for! Thank you.

Base arcanist is definitely powerful, though I do think some archetypes can hold their own at lower levels. The School Savant's extra spell prepared is a solid boon at lower levels. The Twilight Sages ability can be harsh, especially in a campaign with all undead or constructs. Though in most campaigns there usually have to be some living creatures, and if the player is particularly evil they can consume the good living creatures, crazy scientist style (HD permitting.) I'll add a note into the guide about it.

I'll give prof. Q's guide another look over, of the races section particularly. Sadly I made the new races section in a hurry, so it's not as thorough as it should be.

Even though dimensional slide doesn't get you out of grapple/pin, it's still very powerful. It only takes a move action and at higher level's it can move you away a pretty far distance for only 1 reservoir point and it doesn't provoke AoO's.

It costs 75GP if using the Scribe Scroll feat. So the exploit would require a feat slot and an exploit slot to keep it that cheap (albeit a feat that's useful.) And it can only be used a number of times equal to the charisma modifier (though I'm not sure why you would need it more than 1 or 2 times a day.) Charisma arcanists might want to consider this, but giving up a spell slot for more points is usually the better decision (and doesn't require an exploit for.) Though I do like the staff of minor arcana plan.

Also using metamagic rods is only a full-round action for spontaneous casters, the arcanist is not spontaneous.

Some other Guy: True, but think of potent magic as weapon focus for a fighter, 9/10 they take it immediately. Arcanists are going to be using the +1 DC and CL alot and this just makes it better.
And Quick Study could still be useful in campaigns where combat only last's 2 rounds, it's just not for every fight. It's for the end boss or sub bosses with different combat mechanics that the players might not have accounted for.

Tier 1? Tier 2? Tier n? Whazzat?

Yup

CharlieIAM: Yeah that's one of the reasons why I started this guide. I still consider Thelemic Noun’s Arcanist guide a great resource and a lot of his/her ratings informed my own.

I'm glad to hear someone out there is still playing in Eberron, one of the most underrated D&D settings (right after Planescape.) And from the sound of it, you're doing exactly what the arcanist does best. I'm assuming said Oracle is an Ancient Lorekeeper?

Also what do you guys want to see updated first? What do you want to be in the guide?

Sorry for the delayed update everyone I've been busy with national turkey death day, and the trampling of the grandmothers Friday. But now I back and should have more time to update stuff.

UnArcaneElection: I didn't even think about the errata possibility of things, will definitely change how I prioritize things, ty.

Letric: Base isn't bad at all, it's a solid tier 1 or 2 class. However some archetypes push the class firmly into tier 1 (I'm assuming you're talking about my comment on the archetype section.)

Some Other Guy: I'd say Potent Magic and Quick Study are needed. They push the arcanist in league with the sorcerer and wizard and give the arcanist they're own special feel among them. Dimensional Slide and the others are just really good utility/survivability stuff.

BretI: Definitly agree. Picking you're spells wisely is more important for the arcanist than wizard or sorcerer (since arcanists get the least of both worlds.) Quick study is for those "OH SHIT!" moments where something completely comes from left field at the party (like Cloud being in SSB4.)

Azten: That would hugely depend on if your DM allows Wordcasting, but if he does, Servitor and Undeath are definitely great options for the non-occultist arcanist.

Chess Pwn: Damn =/

The Mortonator: Tis True, I'll look into it more when I have the time

Speaking of the blood arcanist, would anyone be able to enlighten me on whether or not a PC can have two instances of arcane bond? In specific the arcane bond class feature granted by the sorcerer's Arcane Bloodline and then the one granted by the arcanist's Familiar Exploit.

Pounce: Just looked at the psychic bloodline, really cool stuff. I've always hated the arcane caster flaws (arcane spell failure, and verbal components) and find the flaws of psychic magic much more interesting. This option is fascinating to say the least.

UnArcaneElection: Can the blood arcanist select a wildblooded bloodline? because that would definitely push the archetype to blue. (Just read the rest of the comments, the sadness.)

-I’ll add a stacked archetype section soon, It shouldn’t be too hard

-Yeah it’s really not all that good, but I don’t consider capstones when rating archetypes as PC’s almost never reach level 20.

-Variant multiclassing is definitely an option, but that would require it's own section so I'll have to get back to it later. Right now I consider Wizard, Sorcerer, and magus all viable VMC options.

-For a blade adept: eldritch heritage can be a great boon, though it makes the class super MAD.

-Once I’m done going over the blood arcanist, I’ll give the spell specialist and the white mage another look over.

Carl Harris: Thanks, cleaning it up the grammar now.

-The comment on scorching ray was hyperbole and a joke at how damage spells aren't too great, but in all fairness scorching ray isn't too bad for the level you get it at.

-I haven’t finished the build section yet, but you’re correct they are imperative, and will definitely be in the build.

-And I don't think anything you said was hurtful, actually if anything it was quite insightful.

The Mortonator: Multiclassing with sorcerer for bloodlines Is definitely an option, but not one I would recommend. It puts the arcanist spellcasting another level behind the wizard, which is a really tight predicament. But if I were to do it, I would take the crossblooded archetype to maximise the benefits (that still works with wildblooded correct?)

Carla the Profane: I wish I could do that but those damn exploiter wizards took it all that away! =(...

pipedreamsam: Hmmm wouldn't a wand of fox's cunning accomplish the same goal on multiple spells? However there is the benefit of it being a swift action so I think it comes down to how useful one would find the benefits of their other exploits.

-and you already changed my mind ^-^, but I would still love to see your build (ATM I would rate the blood arcanist as green, but I want to do the proper research before putting that rating into the guide.)

Because Paizo likes cool options to stop being cool? Probably not true. Probably.

If I had a nickle for every time they took something cool away from me…

Cubic Prism: I absolutely agree, anything in specific stand out as egregiously bad?

Again thanks for thanks for the awesome comments guys. So here's a few updates.

-Thanks to N. Jolly, I've changed the color green to be a less straining shade and added bookmarks to other sections of the guide.

UnArcaneExlection: For the Exploiter Wizard - most of the stuff I said about the exploiter wizard was hyperbole. Chess Pwn hit all the nails on the head as to why I think the exploiter wizard is better. But, you could be right, I'll have to build an exploiter wizard and compare the two.

As for Enlarge and Widen, I think your right on both accounts, changing it now.

Azten: Honestly, for what it's worth, I think the arcanist is the best cantrip caster

Pipedreamsam, LuniasM, Some Other Guy, QuidEst: I think I've been too harsh in my judgement of the blood arcanist, I'll give the archetype a much more thorough look over.

Pipedreamsam: I love knowledge local but in most campaigns it's usefulness seems to be based on the GM. For most campaigns I'm in it's usually blue, but I was afraid that wasn't the case for most others, hence the lower rating. I'll give it a split review.

-For consume magic item, in games I'm an excessive hoarder. I usually don't use potions in other games because I know once I use them their gone forever. So the hate on that ability is mostly from my bias, I'll add your point of view into the guide. What rating do you think it should be?

-I've only been using the core and ACG so far, but you're right spell perfection is important enough that it should be on there regardless

- thanks for bringing up Irrepressible, added it to the guide

Chess Pwn:I just reread the ability, huge mistake on my part, don't know how my eye's skipped over that part. I must make changes.

LuniasM: You were able to put into words what I love about this class but couldn't figure out how to say, mind If I put it in the guide?

And I would love for a GM's point of view on the class, In game experience is far more important than any theory-crafting.

Fourshadow: I forgot clever wordplay?! Doh!

Also ya'll convinced me, I'll bump up Sonic blast and force strike to orange

Most the updates won't be immediate, but I should be able to get to most of them through the week.

Thanks for the super quick responses guys =)

N. Jolly:
-Looking over it now I have to agree the green is a bit vibrant, I'll try looking over a few different shades.

-I tried looking up a guide on how to use links that reference to different sections to a document, but didn't understand it. Could you show me?

-The reasoning I used for stat's before archetypes is that I wanted people to be able to build their characters while reading through the guide, and the choice of archetype would inform stat selection, even just a little. If it's too off-putting to people I'll put it before.

-I'll do an expanded races section at a later date, considering it'll be a fairly large undertaking.

-For item creation, sound's awesome. I guess I'll have to borrow my GM's book and read into it.

-For prehensile *whip, follow the link ;)

Azten: Agreed, however the damage is so low that I'm not sure I can justify an exploit slot for it. Is there any monsters in specific that doing the sonic damage would be better over helping the fighter smash it in the face better?

Lucky7: I did that to highlight that the weaknesses of the sorcerer and wizard are stronger than the arcanists base spellcasting. Sorcerers get more spells known through their bloodline and and non-universalist wizards have more spells per day. The way I wrote it made that a bit unclear, I'm sorry for any confusion =(.

Greetings everyone!

I just finished typing up this guide and wanted to put it up here to see if anyone could find some use out of it. As of right now the only books used in the guide are Core and ACG. I want to keep improving this guide going into the future so any comments (constructive or otherwise) would be greatly appreciated.

Link to the Guide!

So now that sneak attack could be potentially be taken of the table perhaps it's replacement could still be the same in spirit, like getting a bonus to damage if you have a higher intelligence than your target.

This is a thread specifically for cataloging idea's to help each of the new classes feel and play differently from their parent classes. The hope of this is to create a resource that is invaluable to developers.

Please use the following format in posts

Class
Idea:

Please constrain your post to solutions to problems and not complaints.

Mine is

Shaman
Hexing: This is too close to the witch ability. I think a spirit point reservoir in it's stead will help set the class apart. Or perhaps simply renaming hex to Charm or Jinx, to help it Feel different.

The points could be used to make your spirit companion corporeal for a few rounds or make your self ethereal for a few rounds could help a lot.

I think the Shaman needs to become "Flirtier" with the spirit realm to truly become it's own. Maybe Having a number of spirit guides that can help shamans find a path or retell a forgot part of history might help.

All in all keep up the good work, and I'm sorry if I'm recreating a thread that was made and I missed it.

I'm definitely all for the idea of a Cleric/Wizard base class option. Flavor-wise I think it could fit the role of theologian, not necessarily blind faith to a church but speculates on all meanings of it's teachings (not to the point of heresy either though.)

Whether or not this should be a cleric that can cherry pick wizard spell, vice-versa, or something different entirely I don't know.

I think that this could definitely fill an archetype that hasn't been filled yet.