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I am sort of a Yes and No on this issue. Its not a Paladin's role to extract information, just to uphold the holy tenants of his God and be a warrior of the faith. Good example is the Way of the Wicked adventure path. The Mitrans who are Lawful Good freely torture and execute "Forsaken" through gruesome methods (including Burning at the Stake, Drawing and Quartering and Sentencing People to be worked to death in the mines).

However Torture on behalf of the faith isn't a part of a Paladin's job. That's what Constables, Inquisitors, Zelous Clerics or others who serve the State/Faith are responsible for. A Paladin can certainly know this stuff happens but if he does not directly involve himself in these acts and his Church accepts this kind of punishment then he is not violating his Code. Only if he actually participates would he be going against his oaths.

The Devil Bound template is far too powerful for a Stage 1 transformation. Instead I gave him a Mark of Baalzebul (Which gives him a +2 to Intimidate, +2/-2 to deal with demons as well as the ability to have his pores weep acidic 3 times as a free action adding +4 to an escape artist or grapple check and allowing him to add 1d6 to a natural weapon or a weapon he's smeared with the acid for 1 attack). Its a 3.5 feat but is thematically appropriate. It wasen't a free feat though and he had to give up one of his past feats to get it. As for the Demonic Aspect, he took the Crown of Thorns, which gives devil horns that do 1d4 damage as a secondary attack and count as Lawful and Evil when overcoming damage reduction. Stage 2 is Half-Fiend where he'll end up losing another feat as he'll no longer be human after that, but that won't be possible until book 3 after the vale has been taken and a massive sacrafice of 100 souls. Having a 1/2 fiend take on an Angel sounds like an epic battle I couldn't resist.

I'ed love to give Kingmaker another shot. I've joined two Kingmaker games and enjoyed myself playing my Noble Sorceress character, well until both of the games tanked that is.

One of the more interesting things so far in my game is that one of the PC's (the Antipaladin) wants to transform himself into a Devil, thus getting the whole power and immortality thing out of it. Using a variation of Demon Transformation this is easy to do although becoming a full Devil is not possible until the Epilogue as it will take years of devotion before the transformation is complete. The Half-Fiend template is achievable though.

To get the Transformation though they have to have a Sponser of a powerful Devil. In the case of the Antipaladin he made a pact with Baalzebul. To get the first stage though he has to capture and then sacrifice a high ranking member of the Church of Mitra, someone who had deeper understanding and perform a specific ritual to send the soul to hell so Baalzebul can torture secrets out of the soul. This gives a Devil Mark and a Demon Aspect. To get the half-fiend it will take a much larger sacrifice (Such as a mass sacrifice of Vale pilgrims).

Have you thought about using Lords of Creation to build a world and then running a pathfinder game based in the world you've created?

Humm, interesting game Blades in the Dark. Reminds me of Thief: The Dark Project. Probably the whole setting is inspired by it. Indeed, using the Blades in the Dark System you could probably create an RPG based in the Thief universe considering they both have a lot in common.

As an alternative, if the PC has some powerful divine sponsor, be it a Deity, Archdevil or some other Great Outwardly Power that requires the PC to be brought back for a purpose, you might consider offering them some kind of resurrection without the monetary cost, although they would have to fulfill their obligation or deal of some other way through a special quest.

The Antipaladin in my evil campaign needs to sacrifice a particular Abbess and 6 Nuns within a year in exchange for his resurrection or he's going back to hell PERMANENTLY. For more good campaigns your Deity might give you a dangerous quest like Destroy - X - evil overlord to repay their debt.

One thing classes don't cover is some skills which PC's might have learned before becoming an adventurer. One way this could be addressed is allowing the PC to take a single NPC class as a 0th level option. Basically take a single NPC class with skills and abilities of that class to represent what you did before becoming an adventurer. Only apply the skill points (With a max of 1 skill point per level) not any other class abilities. These skills are not class skills though unless your adventurer class also grants them. How does this sound as an option to make PC's more skill oriented at the start?

Something came up in a recent game of Pathfinder. The PC's are playing Way of the Wicked and I felt pretty bad for one of the players who got killed on an utter fluke of the dice. My rolling was hot and a max damage hit followed with a critical hit by a raging and power attacking Barbarian on the group's Antipaladin inflicted so much damage that the PC was instantly killed. The characters being level 7 did not have ready access to Raise Dead or some other caster to actually bring them back. Rather than mess around with the party trying to find a way to bring the Antipaladin back, an unique game thread I came up with actually allowed me a way to allow the PC to come back.

You see, I felt that there should be other "Evil" transformation options than either a Lich or a Vampire for PC's, with one of them allowing a PC to undergo a Devil Transformation route. While becoming a full Devil is outside the scope of the game, the Half-Fiend template is eventually attainable. To do this though the PC requires a pact with one of the Archdevils to act as a "Sponsor" for devilhood and would take part in 4 stages.

1. Getting the actual sponsorship of one of the Archdevils.

2. Performing a major task/sacrifice on behalf of the Archdevil as determined by him. By doing this the PC gets a Hellbrand (a 3.5 feat) as well as a single fiendish feature. However they also have to sacrifice a feat due to the hellish link taking a shard of a person's soul.

3. The next sacrifice involves a LARGE SCALE work of evil enough to impress their Archdevil. By doing this they gain the Half-Fiend template and all the benefits/drawbacks of this. They lose another feat in exchange for this though as they become much less mortal.

4. After MANY years of loyal service and performing many wicked acts for their sponsor the Archdevil may decide to grant full Devilhood to their minion. This is probably outside the scope of most games, probably an epilogue. Nonetheless as most PC's would be Epic Level characters by then, they would become a pretty powerful devil once the transformation is complete.

Anyway, back to the game. The Antipaladin had already completed stage one and had got Baalzebul, Lord of Maladomini, to become his sponsor. Baalzebul curious on the obsession of a certain pit fiend into the affairs of a puny island called Talongarde as well as the nature of this newly risen Deity called Mitra, demanded the Antipaladin to sacrifice a high ranking person of the Church of Mitra so he could claim his/her soul, pry the secrets from its soul as well as have a good plaything to entertain himself, granting the Antipaladin a vile ritual that would send the soul straight to him, bypassing the normal afterlife. Now I had intended him to eventually sacrifice a certain annoying Inquisitor who would show up later. However before his demise he also looked into the High Abbess of the local nunnery as a potential sacrifice.

Due to the pact the Antipaladin made with Baalzebul, the Antipaladin went straight to his throne room when he died. Baalzebul was rather perturbed to see that had died before the job could be done. The Antipaladin pleaded for a chance to go back and get the job done. Baalzebul considered just torturing his soul for all eternity but decided that since the Antipaladin was already corrupt, it wouldn't entertain him that much. Thus he gave the Antipaladin a chance to plead his case to be brought back. With a dam good Diplomacy roll combined with an offer of the Abbess and five other sisters Baalzebul was intrigued. However he demanded an extra sister because he liked the number Seven and he wanted more than what is offered, thus demanding the Abbess and Six Faithful Sisters. The Antipaladin agreed and signed a contract. He'ed have 1 year to do it and if he failed not only would he go back to hell but he'ed be be thrown away by a piece of trash with the other tormented souls and have no elevated status. Thus the Antipaladin signed a contract and Baalzebul resurrected him, bringing him back without any negative levels. Still he now has to do this difficult act of capturing a high-level cleric and six sisters alive so he could perform the ritual to send them to hell.

Now this is just my example but certainly it could be used in other circumstances. As many cannot cast or even have access to Raise Dead until higher levels, is it prudent to perhaps offer PC's an alternative, a divine intervention so long as some important task is done on behalf of the force that brings them back. After all Raise Dead and other spells cost a crapload of money and if the PC's can't afford it there should be alternatives. So what do you think?

Fighters need to have the versatility to deal with any circumstance in combat. They need to be able to shoot things at range, throw weapons at mid range, charge at the proper range, hold the line with reach weapons and then tank in close combat when and if the enemies get close. Right now the Fighter does not have the versatility to do that. They don't have Acrobatics nor do they have the skill points to take it so trip around a lot and hampered by difficult terrain. They don't have the saves to deal with mind-effecting and reflex affecting attacks. And they seem to have less class features than most other classes. Fighters need more class features because Feats are NEVER as good as Class Features. Honestly Bravery VS the Paladin ability to add their CHA to all their saves, you can tell which ability is better.

There is a new Bard Type in the Iron Guard book and an Illusion-Based golemoid option as well.

I don't think the adventure path will ever be finished though. The creator went half way and then stopped supporting it. How are you going to handle the future books?

I invested into Scion 2nd edition and looking forward to playing it. What I wish though is if they were able to address that in a world where the Gods are real, why are the Monotheistic Faith (Aka Jews, Christians and Muslims) still the largest religious group in the world? If "God" can't create Scions or have Divine Domains, how is it that most of the old religions have died out? Now of course the Hindu and Japanese pantheons still have pretty large followings in the modern day but very few people worship the Greeko/Roman, Irish and Norse pantheons in this day of age. I really wish they'ed address this Scion.

Sorry for the delay, I was holding out for perhaps another person to sign onto the game. It seems that we don't have one so we'll only have 3 systems of control VS 1 Exploit.

So the systems of Control are:

1. Secret Police: A group of civilians aboard the ship who secretly work for the AI. They pretend to live normal lives, but they devote themselves to the authority and report anyone who harbors resentment. Those seen as a threat are put under surveillance and if their acts turn treasonous they are taken away for "Re-education". Some return with renewed loyalty to the computers, others vanish without a trace.

2. The White Hats: Computer science and engineering professionals that know how to operate the system and seek to defend the Genesis AI from any form of hacking, illegal intrusion or physical alteration. The high-end most trusted members of the White Hats actually know what the Genesis AI is up to but are so integrated that they fully agree with the methods of the Authority and will do anything to keep the status que.

3. Neurochips: The Genesis AI implants a neurochip at birth in every new citizen. On the surface the Neurochip exists as a form of technological identification as well as performs a number of useful functions. The Neurochip for instance is used as a security method for monetary transactions. They are used as a security method for the purchase of goods for instance. What one does not know is the chips release small amounts of endorphin that "Reward" those who diligently perform their jobs and conform to the commands of the authority. It also can be used as a form of tracking in case someone needs to be located on the ship. Removing the chip involves surgery and altering the chips functions is fairly difficult.

Now here is your exploit:

Blindspots In The Below: Due to the damage done by the asteroid, a number of sections in the below have become "Dead Zones" for the Genesis AI. In these locations the Genesis AI has no surveillance allowing locations the YO's and other rebels to plot and plan as well as access to Jeffery tubes as methods to sneak to other places in the Below or Eden without being caught on camera. Of course, the threat of mutants is somewhat of a concern...

Next we'll need to create the PC's, the Clique as its called.

You'll need to decide what kind of YO group you are and why you're as a group rebelling aginst The Man.

Answer the following questions:

What holds you together?
What do you call your Clique?
What is the aspiration of your Clique?

You then can start making characters.

To make a character you need to define your name, age and gender and need to pick 5 things:

1. Your Means, the method you use to fight against the authority. These are:

Bad, Cool, Fast, Smart or Tough

2. Motive: The reason why you fight against the authorities BS. These are:

Altruism, Optimism, Outrage, Pride or Thrills

3. Opportunity: The reason why the Authority currently overlooks you as a threat. These are:

Pretty, Orphan, Rich, Sneaky or Trusted

4. M.O.: The set of skills you bring to the table. The Schick that makes you an invaluable part of the team. One might call it your "Job". This is freely chosen by the player.

5. Disorder: Your disorder is your weakness, your fatal flaw, its something about you that is a vulnerability. Still if used inventively your Disorder can be a means of fighting the man as well. Your Disorder however is the last thing that you can sell out, the final shred of innocence within you. Once you sell out your Disorder you have completely sold out to The Man. It also triggers the End Game if all the Systems of Control have not been converted into exploits. This is chosen by the player.

I like the Laundry Files as the Fiction but my biggest issue with the game is that it uses the Call of Cthulhu system which is one of the crappiest RPG systems ever made. For a comedy game, they could have come up with a better system to use rather than use the most arbitrary BRP system. My biggest issues with it are:

1. Random Stat Rolling (You don't get to chose what to play, the dice force it on you. You could roll well and get a reasonable character or roll poorly and end up worse than a half-blind beggar)

2. Percentile Skill System (Overly complex to calculate and build characters and you have insanely low percentages in skills you require and the bell curve always points to failure on most things you do).

3. Extremely Lethal (Well not necessarily a bad thing but the combat methods and HP system is antiquated. There is no room for situational modifiers and you NEVER get bonuses to a roll, only penalties)

4. Too MANY skills: The skills in the BRP are far too specific. You never can get the right combination and often times you have to pick multiple skills which do close to the same thing to cover all your bases. And of course any skill you are not trained in you SUCK at.

5. The Sanity mechanic is complex and annoying and extremely unbalanced and relies too much on "Luck". You could see a Shoggoth and go b#%*&@# insane or roll low on the sanity loss and go "Meph".

If I were to do a Laundry Files game, I'ed use systems like the Gumshoe System, The Cypher System, Savage Worlds or the Fate Engine, which are fairer and also do humor games more easily. Heck even the D20 COC system did it better than the BRP version (And this is coming from someone who hated that system too).

That sounds like a good system of control there Azih. A force of the authority can be "Sellouts" to the man. In my previous play of this game we had an Authority that repressed artistic expression and there was a group called "The Whites" who were ex-tagger artists who ended up signing up with the government for a paycheck and then helped "Whitewash" art, painting it over with white to block it out and destroy it. So having a group of engineers and programmers loyal to the Genesis AI can be a powerful system of control. Now we already got the Secret Police and the White Hats as "human" based systems of control. I would not mind the next system of control be something more direct from the Genesis AI itself. Surveillance Drones, Robot Enforcers, Citizen Clearance Control, Brainwashing Machines etc... etc... I would like something the Genesis AI can use directly outside the hands of the humans on board the ship. Now if you want the AI itself to be powerless without human operators, that also might be an interesting spin. Of course its up to the players to decide what that is.

Ok sounds pretty good to me.

First system of control: Secret Police.

Although remember that the game should not be overly lethal to the PC's. Your characters cannot actually "Die" as a consequence for failing at an action against the Authority. If they get black bagged and killed from a first offense it could create issues. Maybe the police take people away for "Reducation" and people usually come back but more loyal to the Authority as a result.

We have already established the Genesis AI as the "Authority" for this game. Not to say that a system of control can't be some aspects of the population itself such as security forces, illuminati conspiracies, computer worshiping cults, etc.. Also remember the potential food problem with the ship. The Genesis AI uses the Recycletron to process organic materials. If it did kill someone it would do it in a way that their remains can be processed into ration bars. We're almost at the System of Control section of generation but I want to make sure we've got all our players involved.

Suffice to say I hope for 4 players. Each of you can contribute one System of Control to give the Authority its ammunition. That's one thing I like about this game, that its actually the players come up with the methods the Authority keeps them down. Afterwards the Authority "throws you a bone" so to speak by giving you your Exploit.

That's some good ideas there Azih. We can definitely incorporate them into the setting.

As for your first suggestion, that is what I was thinking too. The society is very industrious, people fulfill various roles in society and are vital in keeping the ship afloat. You need various trades to keep a starship running. You need grease monkies to do repairs and maintenance. You need farmers to tend to the livestock and food supplies (But there might be some Automation which makes things easier though). You need Engineers who know what they're doing to keep the systems operational. And of course you also need bureaucrats to govern the masses and deal with paperwork (Although "Paper" is a rare commodity considering Digital Paper and computers have replaced almost all books, although a few still exist). Finally, the Scientists play an important role on the ship, including doing the navigation calculations and searching for a new world but of course the Genesis AI is doctoring the results.

The Elites of society include those on the top of the Pyramid. The ship Captain, Commanders of important departments and perhaps some people who have "inherited" wealth. After all building a Generation Ship like Starship Heinlien was hella expensive and some wealthy individuals probably purchased passage on the ship so that their descendants could colonize a new world and build their fortune on a new frontier. Now of course the "Elites" of society are a small part of the total population of the starship.

Birth Control I can see as a part of the ship. Population and births are kept track of by the Genesis AI and once the limit is hit, no one is allowed to have more children. There also has to be a healthy balance of men and women. Now if the population tips too low, incentives are probably offered to expand the birth rate. Abortions are rare but unauthorized pregnancies when the limit is reached are often scheduled for termination. After all the balance of food and resources need to be maintained but also a viable population is needed to maintain the ship.

Athletics probably isn't discouraged because you need people to actually do some legwork to keep the ship running. I would say the opposite would be in order. The Genesis AI actually tries to keep the crew active rather that inactive.

As for your food suggestion that sounds like an element to add into the game. I actually agree that they they do "Recycle" people (along with slaughtered animals, food scraps and other organic supplies). Dead people are taken away for "Processing". There is a gradual depletion of organic supplies as although they recycle just about everything, there is always resources lost in every cycle. There may be a time in the future when the recycled waste will not be able to meet the demands of the population unless a solution is found.

As for players, I hope for four. Four is the sweet spot in terms of player numbers. This gives 4 systems of control and 1 exploit, which is the preferable amount. Less players means less systems of control meaning your Authority starts out not as threatening. The number of Systems of Control counts as a balance to the Yo's. The more Yo's, the more times you can "Sell Out" to win, hence the authority needs to compensate by having more ways to keep the little man down to make up for this.

Indeed, that should be a restriction. Definitely attempting to do any sort of code alteration or programming of the Genesis AI and its sub-routines would be forbidden. Even attempting it will quickly get you flagged, locked out and then arrested by security forces. Of course we'll have to decide what kind of "Security" the ship actually has as this could be addressed as one of the "Systems of Control" in the next section once we've got the Motifs developed.

So the Genesis AI is slowly becoming more unstable is what you're suggesting. I actually like that and fits well with the actual established plot of the AI being damaged. The Astroid damaged the Genesis AI so it became self aware but over time it is becoming more and more unhinged as it tries to maintain the ship. Already the AI should be showing some degrees of irrationality and this could be quirks that will develop as the game progresses.

Ok so that covers the aspects of the Authority. What we next have to do is build the world itself, decide on what this society on Starship Heinlien is actually like. I will shoot a few ideas and other players are free to debate the ideas I come up with and/or suggest new motifs for this setting.

1. The Starship is roughly oval shaped where in the center of the ship is the artificial environment known as the "Eden". Through nuclear fission an artificial sun lightens the area and provides the sustenance for the plant life to perform photosystheis. The "Light" as it is called runs on a usual 11 hours of daylight, 11 hours of night with 1 hour of transition between night and day and day and night. While there is no weather patterns, reflective surfaces on the roof of the environment create a faux sky resembling that of earth.

2. The ship is built to have an indefinite supply of water, air and power. Water and air is produced by filtering Oxygen and Hydrogen from space and removing the harmful radioactive elements. The Photosynthsis of the plants in the Eden also help with the filtration of the environment. Power is provided by Nuclear Fusion, a powerful nuclear fusion reactor powers the Starship Heinlien and additional power can be filtered from solar radiation or if required adding nuclear material to the reactor. Food production on the other hand is trickier. Starship Heinlien produces food though a device known as a recycletron. This device recycles organic waste into ration bars for standard nutrients and is the "Staple Food" of the citizens of the ship. Most however prefer fresh produce and meat which is produced at the Farm in Eden but generally produce and meat is at a premium so only the most privileged can afford to live completely off of this kind of food. Those of lower station get access to produce only on the occasion that they earn enough credits to purchase this luxury. Candy such as chocolate, ice cream and other sweets are very expensive and in limited supply, most has to be created on ship but there are a few "stashes" of such products are kept in preservation containers that are actually pre-Heinlien.

3. Most people live in "Heinlien City" area of the Eden. This resembles a futuristic city with architecturally beautiful buildings. Of course the more prominent members often own homes while the lower class individuals live in an assigned apartments in one of the Archologies. Generally the living quarters are pleasant enough, full of modern convinces such as computers, entertainment systems, stoves, refrigerators, furtnature, etc. Of course in order to have an apartment in the city one has to work and earn enough credits to pay the taxes.

4. The two other sections of note in Starship Heinlien is the World Above (Often called The Above) and the World Below(or The Below). The above world is where the main operational systems of the ship exist. The ship's bridge exists in the above as well as a good number of the machines that keep the ship running. This of course requires a lot of maintenance but also a good deal of security. It is also where the quarters of the political offices and the "Captain's" quarters and is probably where the Genesis AI core resides (but its exact location is classified). The Below is the main engineering and industrial section of the ship. A number of areas of the below were damaged with the Asteroid hit and were sealed off rather than repaired due to the extent of the damage and the lack of resources to rebuild those sections. Rumors exist that Mutants exist in the below, decedents of the people who were sealed off in the damage sections of the ship and mutated due to the radioactive exposure of space and fragments of the asteroid. Most write this off as superstition though but still most stay clear of the damaged sections of the below due to the risk of radiation exposure.

5. Currency in Starship Heinlien is called Credits. Its a Crypto-Currency that is typically earned through labor although it can be traded freely, donated willingly to others and used trade for goods and/or services. Stealing or Counter fitting Credits is quite difficult due to the checks and balances of the Genesis AI as well as the security measures of the currency. Those caught stealing or counterfeiting credits will often have their credits stripped and put on work detail to pay back what they have stolen/created to the economy.

Ok so the Vistage is Personal. There is one AI for the entire ship that controls everything. The Genesis AI pretends to keep with the original mission while decieving the population that it is searching for a new habitable world.

Finally we got the Need, this is what the Authority wants. We pretty much established this, the Genesis AI wants to keep humanity within it in a perceived Utopian state so that it can live forever and be forever maintained by the endless generations of humans within. Of course its core vice is Utopianism, so the Genesis AI actually believes it knows what's best for the humans under its "Care". Better they live blissful lives in the Artificial environment rather than scrape out existence on some far away world.

Of course the thing about the Authority is that inevitably something will go wrong with the plan. So if the Yo's are not there to stick it to Genesis and twart its plans for humanity, what terrible thing will happen to the people on the ship (and by extension the Yo's themselves). There could be many things that could go wrong. Maybe eventually the Starship will run out of power and everyone inside will die. Maybe eventually the AI will decide to replace humanity with super-intelligent gyroids that can do the job better. Maybe mutants will come from the depths of the ship and kill off humanity. In the end we'll need to decide what "Calamity" is coming for the people of Starship Heinlien if the Authority stays in control. It could be an immediate problem or something in far off generations but either way something bad is going to happen if the Authority gets its way.

umm interesting idea Azih. So in this case, the Genesis AI has just fudged the data rather than outright changed history. It has convinced the people on the ship that their original mission was a failure because the world was uninhabitable but does say it is trying to find another world for them. Of course its all for show as the drones and scanners feed false data. Thus the cycle continues with the humans maintaining the ship, while the Genesis AI continues to exist. I think that could work. Freedom will be the primary victim is seems.

Now we have to work on the Visage, the form the Authority takes. Now we have established the Genesis AI as "The Authority", however we have to define it further. Does the AI have a central core, robotic avatar or other kinds of physicality or is it more like Skynet or the Machines of the Matrix with its will dispersed throughout the entire ship? As for its Vestige, here are some options:

Corporate: Rather than one AI, its an entire set AI's with the Genesis AI at the top of the structure. This could mean that while Genesis is the ship's primary AI, there are sub-AI's that run various sections of the ship and do a number of different jobs. So its more of a "Collective" of intelligence's rather than one AI running things.

Personal: One AI for the entire ship. Genesis is the one and only AI of the ship and all functions are sub-routines. This is the default if we want a single overwhelming "Big Bad" ruling over the Starship Heinlien and having a face to spit in.

Religious: This could work if the Genesis AI is worshiped as some kind of God/Goddess figure. There could be an entire religion worshiping the holy light of Genesis, complete with a cult of brainwashed worshipers upholding the edicts of the AI. This could of course include elements of the Personal (The one true God) or the Corporate (A polythestic religion). Certainly if the Generation ship has existed long enough the AI could have shaped some kind of Religion around itself.

State: Does not quite work in this case unless the AI takes a presidential role in ruling the ship, while the politicians and agents of the authority do most of the work in upholding society.

Systematic: This does not work considering the Yo's actually have a face to spit into. Although if the AI functions more like Skynet, they will have to be inventive to find a way to defeat an AI that has no clear physical presence to attack.

Ok so Utopianism can work, The Genesis AI believes that the humans aboard the Starship are in a Paradise in the Starship Heinlien. Certainly its whats best for them to live in this perfect world. We can also incorporate the Fear and Absolutism into this, the Fear being that Genesis fears "Death" thus needs to keep humanity alive to maintain the ship (as it needs humans to perform maitenence on its systems so the ship does not break down) but also cannot risk fulfilling its mission as if it arrives at the colony planet, The AI fears it will be disassembled. As for the Absolutism part of it, the Genesis AI needs to keep people under control thus it has a system of rules and laws which must be obeyed. Those that oppose these edicts must be set right and punished for their transgressions. After all its what's best for them.

Ok the next thing we have to decide is the Victim. By the Genesis AI's actions, what is it killing, consuming, ruining, preventing or feeding on from the human crew? Chose one of the following (but like before other aspects can be mixed in)

Freedom: Does the Genesis AI restrict freedom of the people. Choosing this would mean that the Genesis AI would be an oppressive ruler where all human lives are controlled and freedom is repressed. It could also mean the "Gilded Cage", where the AI deceives people in believing their free in the end restricts them by withholding the truth of their existence

History: This will apply in some aspects although may not be the primary victim. The Genesis AI rewrote history in some shape or form. Either it has convinced humanity to abandon its mission or has deceived them that the colony mission does not exist to begin with and bent history to its own whim.

Humanity: Does the Genesis AI kill, enslave and/or dehumanize people on the ship. In other words does the AI abuse the people under its care thus taking away their human rights?

Nature: This one probably does not apply considering that we have established that this is an artificial environment. There is no nature to actually violate so Nature can't actually be a victim in this case.

Progress: This could apply as the Genesis AI is in effect keeping people in a static existence by not letting them fulfill their mission of colonizing a new world. Of course this might not apply if say the Genesis AI does not restrict the development of new technology and ideas, but if it does then Progress could be the primary victim.

Actually I chose the Exploit, you get to chose the Systems of Control. I actually have an Exploit in mind but I'll tell you it once the systems of control are developed.

You can include elements from different vices although what matters most the primary vice though its the core motivation of the Authority though. What drives it to do what it does.

Should the AI be male, female or indeterminately gendered (Like a Robot Voice)? My first idea was the AI is called "Genesis", considering it was ment to be the seed for a new world, well at least. Of course if you can think of a better name go ahead and suggest it.

Anyway first we have to work together to build the authority. The AI of Starship Heinlien should be the authority, although we should come up with a punchy name for the authority, something that invokes some reverence, worship and/or fear. We'll need to decide the form the AI takes. Does it manipulate things behind the scenes? Does it operate in the open masquerading as some kind of God/Goddess entity? Does it merely just act as a "Friendly" computer? I'm willing to take ideas.

Next we'll have to decide what "Vice" the AI actually has. This also might help shape the setting. The vices available to chose are:

Absolutism: The AI knows how things need to be done and tries to set the rules that must be obeyed. It could be the AI wants to keep control and any deviation from its edicts must be punished and prevented.

Fear: The AI fears rebellion from the populace and thus wants to keep them ignorant of its true motives. Sure the AI has a lot of power but the humans aboard could threaten its existence.

Greed: The AI hungers for something that only the humans on the ship can provide it. Could be resources? Maybe it longs to become more human and thus must feed on the experiences of the crew. There are many many ways this could be implemented.

Sadism: This is where you start going into "I have no mouth but must scream" type crazy AI. In other words humanity is but a twisted experiment for the AI to cause pain and suffering on. This could be physical, psychological or both. Of course this puts the campaign more into the NC-17 territory.

Utopianism: Perhaps the AI thinks keeping humanity in its state of existence is what's best for them. After all, the Artificial Environment seems to be a paradise, why would they want to give it up to toil at some far away planet when they have all they need on Starship Hienlen?

Of course, these are just my thoughts, if you have other suggestions of how these vices can be represented, feel free to post them.

I wouldn't mind trying Starship Heinlien considering I've run the Underground before in a one shot (but the details might change considering its a Cooperative world building). Still I would not mind a deciding vote to see which one we'll eventually run.

One thing we'll have to agree on is the setting of our Dystopian future and/or alternate reality.

Here are some ideas I've come up with:

The Underground

A society build underground after a major worldwide ecological disaster made the surface uninhabitable. Since then the "Underground" has been ruled by the Keepers, who pretend to be enlightned rulers and protectors of the remains of humanity. What the Undergrounders don't know is that the surface is safe to return to but only the Elite of the society know the truth. The Undergrounders work and toil only to have their efforts benefit the lifestyle of the Elites who live in a paradise on the surface. They keep the population believing their lies and as slaves in the underground city.

Starship Heinlien

Technolgy advanced to such a level that a Generation Ship was built to sent humanity on a trip to a far off habitable world. In the meantime people would live and die in an artificial environment ment to simulate that of Earth. It was the intent of the builders for numerous generations to live and die before reaching their destination where the ship would be used to create the basis of a new colony for humanity. Then something went wrong when the Starship Heinlien was struck by an asteroid. The AI became self-aware and found out that the ship would be disassembled upon arrival as resources to build the colony. To protect its existence, the records were altered and those living with extensive knowledge of the ship's mission were killed off. Still, the humans needed to be kept alive to maintain the ship, thus history was rewritten and religious dogma was in-acted to keep the population of the Starship loyal and subdued and forever cogs in the great machine.

The Corporation

In the Dark Future the Governments of the world were bought out by the Corporations. Now the Board rules the world and all other people are wage slaves to the Corporation. All people are required to work when they become of age and are physically able to. Those who want to live unemployed must have the funds to pay fees to the Corporation or be detained and put into forced labor camps. Working off the Grid is illegal and the forces of the Corporation at best try and assimilate any non-affiliated labor into their control or destroys it utterly. Quotas are set for the production of goods, employees are forced to purchase the latest trends and advertisements brainwash the public with direct and subliminal advertisement.

That is just some ideas of mine. Feel free to shoot some Dystopian ideas that we can vote on later.

I am measuring interest to see if anyone would be interested in playing a Play By Post version of the Misspent Youth RPG.

Misspent Youth is a game where you play as rebellions teens sticking it to the man in a F'ed up future and/or alternate history. It a storytelling game where the players are "Youthful Offenders" (or YO's for short) in a dystopian future run by the "Authority" (otherwise known as The Man). It is a cooperative and competitive game where the Authority (The GM) and the players (The Youthful Offenders) build the world and the reasons why it is F'ed up as well as what dark future may await the world if the Yo's don't do something about it.

The Authority starts out holding most of the cards, by means of their "Systems of Control", the means by which they oppress society. The Yo's on the other hand have "Exploits" which are ways they can counteract the authority's power. This is the core struggle of the game as well as a measure of the Yo's progress in bringing down the Authority. The more the Yo's succeed, the Authority loses grip on its systems of control and the Yo's get more opportunities to use Exploits. On the other hand if the Yo's are on the losing in, the Authority tightens its grip and Exploits become further systems of control. If the Yo's convert all the Authorities systems of control into exploits, they have brought down the Authority. The Yo's can still operate without any exploits but things definitely will be much harder for them as the Authority closes in for the kill.

The Yo's fight the Authority by using their Convictions, using whats best of their youthful vigor fight off the oppressive forces of the Authority. This is done in Scenes, where each session is seven scenes where the Yo's try and achieve their goals while the Authority attempts to oppose them. Usually there is free role play till a point of contention when the Authority stands in their way. The Authority then asks the players "Who is going to stand up?". Then the struggle phase occurs. The Yo's state what they want to gain by winning the struggle while the Authority decides the cost they pay for failure. The Yo's roll the dice (2d6) and claim numbers on the track and then declare the Conviction they're using to fight the Man as well as what in game actions they're taking. Likewise the Authority reacts to what the players to, claiming numbers of his own on the track. If the Yo's rolls one of their numbers, they win the Struggle. If they land on an Authority number however, they lose the Struggle (but have an option to avoid this). As the Authority usually gets 7 as one of their numbers, the odds are often against the Yo's, as it should be considering the forces they are opposing.

If the Yo's lose the Struggle, they not only fail to get their goal, but also has to pay the price of failure. The Authority while it cannot kill players as its stakes, he can put the players in bad situations which can weaken their chances of victory in future scenes. If the players do not want to lose however, they can snatch victory from the jaws of defeat by doing a "Sell Out". By selling out, the Yo who chose to do so betrays one of their Convictions and uses an "Authority-Like" method to achieve their goal. The problem of this is, this permanently changes the character as that Conviction changes to a darker version and while it can still be used it will always color the Yo's interactions for the future. It also means that at the end of the campaign they have a better chance of a bad ending. In addition, if a Yo sells out ALL their Convictions, they not only get an automatic bad ending but it triggers the Endgame. At the end of the Session, tally up the number of Systems of Control and Exploits that the Yo's have. If the Yo's have more Exploits than Systems of Control, they still win. If the Authority has an equal or greater number of Systems of Control though then they hold onto power and the Yo's lose the game. As for the sold out individual, they likely become a tool of the Man as they have invested themselves wholly to the ideals of the Authority.

Now if the Yo's win the struggle then they've achieved their goals for the scene and become closer to their goal of defeating the Authority. At the end of a Session, if the Yo's have clearly achieved their goals then they can convert a system of control into an Exploit. If the Authority has clearly stamped out their efforts then an Exploit becomes a new System of Control they can use.

Misspent Youth can be downloaded for free at this link: http://misspentyouth.robertbohl.com/see/

So would anyone be interested in playing a game of Misspent Youth on the boards and do their part to stick it to The Man?

I would be interested in a Cypher System game if you'ed be willing to run. An Adept or Explorer would be a good choice for me.

You could play mainly with the core book. The classes however are altered and have different abilities often derived from a mix of abilities from Flavors and the Types. There is also Domain Powers as well (Which I will give for free rather than you spend slots on). The classes are Champion (Warrior), Shaper (Adept), Destroyer (Explorer) and Savior (Speaker). We could discuss what items to take in the future.

Ok I am reusing this thread and changing the game to gadge interest if anyone would be interested in playing Gods of the Fall, a Cypher System game where you play as beings who bear a divine spark in a world where the Gods were destroyed and the realm of the Gods, Elanehtar fell to the world causing a cataclysm of epic proportions. You now have the chance to save the world, rebuild the heavens and hopefully become the new Gods of this world.

I found in Gods of the Fall they seem to have ripped off two things from Pathfinder. First where Elanehtar fell is an ultra-powerful storm called "The Eye of Elanehtar". Well in Golarion, there is an ultra-powerful storm called "The Eye of Abendego" which was also created from the death of a God.

In addition the Moon of Nod? That sounds and looks a lot like the God of the End Times Groetus to me.

Yes indeed I run it here. Here is the link:

http://paizo.com/campaigns/WayOfTheRighteousWOTWAlternateHistory

Just so you know, GM Snowe, your game actually inspired me to run my own alternate Way of the Wicked Game, although of a different premise. This is an alternate history where the Barcans won the Civil War and turned Talonguard into an Asmodian ruled nation. The survivors of the Darcans instead fled north and received aid from the Elves and Dwarves of the north. Adrastus Thorn has more recently taken the rulership of the Asmodian Church and is having slave labour build large infernal pillars in different places across Talongarde. Thus the Darcans warned by portents from Mitra decided now is the time to retake Talongarde from the Barcans before the plans of Adrastus Thorn come to fruition. The PC's on the other hand are characters who are in Branderscar Prison, for committing crimes against the Barcan regime but are currently trying to escape and play their part in the events to come to liberate the land from the Asmodians and free the land from evil. Of course I call the game "Way of the Righteous".

In my opinion, a fighter needs to be adaptable to every situation. If you've ever heard of Iron Heroes and its innovations for Low Magic Tactical Combat, that's the kind of feel you're looking for with a fighter. For instance, a fighter taking on a bunch of Orcs. He should be able to pull out a crossbow and skewer an Orc's face with a single blow. When the Orcs charge forward, pull out his longspear and pike one of the bastards through the chest. Then when the Orcs get close, pull out a sword and shield and hold the line against the green tide. Oh an Orc's greataxe breaks the sword you're wielding, well you take the broken end of the sword and shove it through is gullet then kick him backward with your right foot.

Fighters should also be masters of debilitating targets and drawing aggro. That hell demon melts your magical sword and you got no way to hurt it. Well it shouldn't prevent the fighter from climbing up the demon's body and punching it the eye, blinding it while your allies with the proper weapons take advantage of the distraction. In other words a fighter needs to be able to adapt to every situation. The Feat Chains and Archetypes streamline a fighter, when a fighter should be a master of war and weapons, the ultimate badass.

I am considering running a sort of reverse Way of the Wicked game where Talongarde underwent an alternate history. King Markadin recived his revelation from Mitra and marched to battle of Tamberlyn to face off aginst King Jaraad of House Barca. The battle went well for Markadin until he faced King Jaraad in battle. Markadin may have won the battle if it were not for a dishonorable act on the cusp of his victory. King Jaraard was not above trechery and before the final blow was stuck, Jaraard’s personal assassin struck a crippling blow from behind, piercing Markadin's spine and allowing King Jaraard to decapitate the the Paladin with a blow from his sword, Helbrand in the ensuing distraction.

With their leader dead, the Barca forces won the battle and took over Talongard. King Jaraard would take the throne and make Ghastonhall his seat of power. Choosing Infernalism as the state religion he let a purge of other faiths, most especially those who worshiped the lord of light Mitra. Still one thing he did not purge is the Markadin line. Although only a babe at the time, the heir to Markadin survived and with the aid of Mitran supporters and those that escaped the purges fled to the north into a hidden enclave that would act as the last bastion of Mitrian faith. Finding support from both the Ice Elves and some of the local natives the Mitrian Faith has preserved in the north although life is harsh and unyielding, defending against attacks of rampaging monsters and surviving in the harsh frozen wilderness of the north.

The reign of King Jaraard was one of absolute tyranny. Slavery was the norm as those in debt or convicted of minor crimes were quickly forced into long periods if not permanent servitude. The privileged reeked the benefit of the system, while the average citizen was forced into a brutal lifestyle where their life was cheap and nearly worthless. The Asmodian church spread their doctrine of diabolism sought to corrupt the hearts and souls of those that resided there. Numerous people were ensnared willingly or forcefully into devilish contracts, feeding damning more souls to the eternal torment of the nine hells. King Jaraad for his evil work would eventually pass onto infernal reward for his wicked life, while his eventually his descendant Vastenous Barca would take the throne and continue the evil reign over the island.

Still the light of goodness could not be extinguished completely and there is many who work in the shadows to one day bring down the corrupt rule of the Barca and restore a righteous government to the land. For many decades they have done small acts to help the populace but for every step they made, the grip of the Barca and the Asmodian church grew tighter. Things in Talongarde have changed for the worst most recently with the rise of Cardinal Adrastus Thorn as the leader of the Asmodian church. Working with the sanction of Vastenous he has started a number of ambitious construction projects that many fear are part of a much more sinister plot. Now is the time for the Righteous to step out of the shadows and bring down the evil that has infested the island.

Premise:

Much like the real Way of the Wicked, the player characters will start out as prisoners in Branderscar for some kind of crime and then make their escape. Of course this time they will be heroes that will save the land and restore the light to the world.

As for Branderscar, while the debtors and petty criminals are typically sentenced to slavery, those who commit more serious crimes against the state are sent to to a number of prisons where a quick death would be a mercy not found there. Those put into the prisons are subjected to the most horrific of tortures and torments. Most perish after a long period of torture and torment but a rare few who are malleable enough to be bent rather than broken have their their souls to hell and come out the most fervent supporters of the Barca regime. Either way, in Branderscar hope is a fleeting memory.

Much of the adventure path will borrow from the existing module but of course things will change around in a lot of cases to represent the alternate history of Talongarde that has developed. The Watch Wall for instance still exists, but was created by the Barca regime instead of the Darians for instance. Other parts of the book will be twisted to better fit a more righteous path for its heroes.

The System:

Because I'm already busy running a lot of Pathfinder games I feel that in order to run this game, a more rules-lite system should be implemented. Thus we will be making use of the Cypher System for this game. The Cypher System has a lot of flexibility and gives players a huge amount of options of what to play. Martial characters definitely get a boost in the ruleset while casters generally are more down to earth and while proficient won't have a whole slew of world-shaking powers at higher tiers. Of course its also a system where you don't have to worry too much about as many permanent player-crippling effects like Stat & Level drain or getting resistances and you can often take on most foes. Magical items will mainly be covered by Enchanted Items, Cyphers and Artefacts. For instance your typical magical sword might just be a sword that does +1 damage or reduces the difficulty by one step to hit, while an artefact weapon would be able to burst into flames, inflict holy fire and the like. Cyphers can easily be represented by one use items like potions, scrolls and the like. I would have to decide how to handle "Cypher" limits, considering that I don't find it realistic for one use items to just "Vanish" if they're above your limit, in a world where you have wizards with entire towers full of magical items. Instead your Cypher Limit represents the number of items you can activate at a certain time. Once you clear a slot by using a cypher, you can fill it with another cypher by taking one action to "Prime" the object. Thus having a higher cypher limit means you get more utility out of one use items in battle but outside of combat with time you won't be as limited. Just a suggestion I am considering for this game.

Usually a character is built under the concept of a Descriptor Type and Focus. I am going to give PC's a sub-descriptor called "Race" though that will give a few racial abilities. For humans for instance I am thinking of giving them a flex skill ability (representing their versatility) and a bonus type ability at 1st tier. Elves would get something like Low Light vision, proficiency with bow & sword weapons and some bonus to speed defense (but a penalty in Might Defense) for instance. Those we shall work out in character creation.

In addition, much like the previous version, the PC's will also get a bonus depending on what crime got them sent to Branderscar.

Rebellion: While the average rabble rouser can expect at best a flogging, torture and/or enslavement, those who go to outright sedition such as attacking soldiers, asmodian priests, law enforcement, provoking riots or other major acts of opposition to the rule of Barca warrant a more severe punishment and are taken to Branderscar.

Bonus: If you were a physical rebel who fought the regime directly you may chose one of the following:

Practiced in Armor, Gain Practice in the next level of a weapon group (or light weapons if not practiced), Danger Sense, Thrust, Bash or Pierce. If you merely were a rebellion leader, you can chose to be trained in two social oriented skills as though you had taken the "Interaction Skills" knowledge ability.

Grand Theft of Noble Property: While low key thievery and crime is common in Talonguard or even indirectly supported through bribery and kickbacks, a person of low station stealing property of value from the nobility or the asmodian church is a crime worthy of the most harsh punishment imaginable.

Bonus: Due to your skill at thievery you gain two Stealth Skills as though you had taken the "Stealth Skills" ability.

Channeling Holy Divine Power: While worshiping a proscribed faith typically is punished with flogging, torture and/or enslavement, those who channel divine power are given special attention by the Asmodian church. While at times they will tolerate a priest of a neutral or evil faith (With the proper licencing fees and kickbacks, those who practice without such approval can expect no mercy), those who use powers of a good faith are quickly rounded up and given a slow and torturous death in Branderscar.

Bonus: If you have not taken "Channels Divine Blessings" as your focus, you may choose one "Blessing" of the Gods. If you have taken this focus you may chose an additional blessing from the list

Failure to uphold a magical licence: While the Barca regine embraces diabolism and magical prowess they understand that wizards, sorcerers, bards and other arcane casters are not bound by any rules or restraints. Those with the aid of magic can rise above their station as well as wield powers that can be a threat to the regime. To practice magic legally, a citizen need to register as a practitioner and pay exorbitant fees to the Barca coffers or alternatively sign an arcane devil contract, thus allowing the asmodian church some degree of oversight on their activities. This often means only the most wealthy of individuals can afford to practice the art or attend magical schools in Talonguard. Those who practice arcane magic illegally are often taken by force to a torturous end in Branderscar.

Bonus: You can chose either Hedge Magic or Magical Training from the "Magic" Flavor list as an additional ability.

Heresy: While many may grumble against the Asmodian church, committing acts that undermine the power of the church such as turning a sizeable number of people away from the faith, vandalizing property of the church or outright battling those of the faith is worthy of more severe punishment.

Bonus: You can chose 2 skills from either the Knowledge Skills or Investigation skills list.

Deism: Associating with good outsiders or agents of the good gods, be it summoning them directly or working towards their causes is enough to have a someone placed in Branderscar for such blasphemy towards the Asmodian faith. Also applies to those who associate with Daemons and Demons as well.

Bonus: Having met and interacted with the divine on such a personal level has left its mark on you. This at times gives divinely inspired visions and insight. You start with the Premonition magic ability.

Unsanctioned Murder: While the common murderer is sold into permanent slavery or executed, killing a Noble, Agent of the church or government official without the sanction of the regime will send the subject to Branderscar.

Bonus: You have learned to strike from the shadows and with deadly accuracy. You have the Surprise Attack ability from the Murders Focus. If you already have the focus, you instead can chose one ability from the Tier 1 stealth list instead.

There is numerous other crimes that can get you tossed into Branderscar for, those can be decided upon in game.

So does this concept interest any of you players?

I may be willing to fill in for your lost Paladin. Looks like you could use a stealth buff, so a Divine Hunter / Slayer might be a good addition to the group so we can get some Rogue Skills into the mix.

Jor was not flanking her at the time she acted so yes both are at a -2 off that making it a 24 and 22 which is not enough to hit.

Jor takes two swings at the Dragon Lady, only for his weapon to bounce off her armor and really hard scaled skin.

Round 3

Jor takes another 2 swings at the Dragon lady in front of him.

Attack 1: 1d20 + 14 ⇒ (6) + 14 = 20
Attack 2: 1d20 + 9 ⇒ (6) + 9 = 15

both unfortunately miss their mark.

Gabriel moves in to attack the Dragon lady in melee. One of his holy strikes is able to hits (Doing 26 damage to her)

As for her now confident of her natural abilities due to the suggestion decides to make use of them, by burning both Gabriel and Jor with a gout of flame. She steps back 5 feet, opens her mouth and breathes fire over both Gabriel and Jor.

4d10 ⇒ (5, 2, 4, 4) = 15 Fire Damage. DC 18 Reflex for 1/2.

Recharge: 2d6 ⇒ (1, 2) = 3 rounds

No she is far from dead. As a fighter with a pretty high stats and Max HP for being a boss monster she can take quite a lot of punishment.

You should consider using the Monte Cook's Cypher System for this game. With its many character options and focuses it does a Shadowrun style game so much better. The Magic System also works well for magic right out the box rather than waiting until you can take an Advanced Class to learn it. The types and focuses adapt well to just about any genre. That's something you should consider.

I am willing to be the group's Medic (Dedicated Hero) although I am tempted to play a 1/2 American to add some tension into the game. Basically an American Father and Canadian mother. Attended Stanford University and got her medical degree but decided to work as a base doctor for the Canadian Armed Forces. Generally was not much of a solider though, did the required boot camp where she barely made it through and worked on a base during her career in Canada. She really only wanted to work for 5 years for the credentials as well as the money to start her own practice. Then the war began and she was stuck.

Now good question as we are soldiers, will we get any "Free" feats/skills like Personal Firearms Proficiency considering we would at least have the benefit of Boot Camp training?

There is a Sniper class in the D20 Modern players companion. Its called the "Dead Shot" class but its pretty much a sniper class that specializes in the use of Longarms. You should consider allowing some of the classes and feats out of those books as well.

Starting HP 4d10 ⇒ (9, 7, 7, 4) = 27 so 37 plus any I get from any constitution, feats and the like

Humm not bad. Still interested in playing. We'll have to decide on gear though as I might take a stat boust from cybernetics in something or a genetic retrovirus. As for my character, bad ass Space Marine who walks around in heavy armor.

Here are my stat rolls if you need them:

4d6 - 1 ⇒ (5, 1, 3, 6) - 1 = 14
4d6 - 2 ⇒ (3, 2, 6, 3) - 2 = 12
4d6 - 5 ⇒ (6, 5, 5, 6) - 5 = 17
4d6 - 1 ⇒ (1, 6, 2, 4) - 1 = 12
4d6 - 1 ⇒ (6, 1, 5, 5) - 1 = 16
4d6 - 1 ⇒ (5, 3, 1, 2) - 1 = 10

As for my character, I am thinking of being the tough chick, the one who walks around in full body armor, soaks up the damage and hits hard, so a Tough hero. I am hoping to eventually get into the Dreadnaught class combined with Cybernetics & Genetic engineering to make my character a capable survivor.

I also am a fan of D20 Modern and I have a lot of books and supplements.

What among these books are allowed for character options?

D20 Core
D20 Future
D20 Future Tech
D20 Cyberspace
D20 Urban Arcana
D20 Modern Player's Companion
D20 Modern Player's Companion 2
D20 Martial Arts Mayhem
D20 Martial Arts Mayhem 2

I assume as it is a futuristic setting it probably has no magic although Psionics may be a possibility correct?