Drago von Drakken's page

Way to go, Chris!

I've read through all of the posts and build suggestions, etc. because I play Dex-based monk in Pathfinder Society and was interested to see how my monk build stacked up to the optimized monk that Treatmonk put so much time and effort into writing (nice job, by the way, and very helpful) and maybe pick up some ideas. I played 9 slots at GenCon with my monk and took him from 4th level up to 7th level (playing at higher tiers for 8 of those slots).

<I'm gonna say right now that I've read through the rest of my post a few times and it might sound like I'm a glory hound or bragging about my character, but that's not the case. It's impossible to sum up several adventures' worth of play with the intent of illustrating the advantages of a character concept without sounding like a braggart. So please take this in the spirit in which it is intended and not how it might "sound".>

At every single table (6 players each) I was in the front line with the fighters, rangers and barbarians (was the only front-liner in one mod) and was nearly un-hittable in every combat and dealt out almost as much damage per combat as the fighter-types. My speed broke two major encounters. My grappling took out a BBEG spellcaster. My stunning saved a ranger from a death blow (TWF with low AC). My acrobatic jumping got me into a solo combat with a BBEG and a minion that I (almost) single-handedly took (summoned creature helped at the end). Without a rogue in one adventure, my speed/ evasion/ AC was used to set off the traps Indiana Jones style.

I didn't have any cheesed out equipment or any non-core feats and my only equipment was a +1 ring of protection, an amulet of shocking fists (not +1, just shocking per core rules), potions of mage armor, belt of dex +2 and headband of wis +2 (and a monk's robe I picked up just before the last adventure)- so about 15k gp worth of items for most of the adventures. And ALL of the buffs in-game went to the fighter types to help them out (AC, Str, saves, etc.).

I didn't roll exceptionally well at any point but I was never thought of as pitiful or lame. And, yes, other classes could do some of the things I did- but none of them could do them as well as my monk and none of them could do them ALL like my monk! The fighters I played with were solely concerned with damage output (which they did well)- none of them grappled. No one even came close to my 30+ AC or my movement (even the flying creatures which can be severely hampered by a monk jumping up on them and grappling them). None could offer flanks as easily or quickly as I could. And only one person had a +10 to their initiative modifier like I have, so I almost always got to go first in the round. My high wisdom and max ranks in perception allowed me to act in every surprise round.

Anyone who's played for any length of time knows that no two combats are the same and that putting together a theoretical fight where your Monster X is standing right next to my monk and will kill me in 2 rounds is unrealistic, to say the least, because that's not how combats happen in an actual game. There's initiative, distance, terrain, BBEG pre-buffs, enemy spells/ effects, circumstance modifiers, wise use of resources and special abilities in addition to ACTUAL dice rolling instead of just using averages that typically account for the majority of each encounter.

The result is that I had a BLAST playing my monk, was not only effective in combat but bordered on dominating several encounters (combat and non-combat) and had lots of opportunity to role play this multi-dimensional character. What more can you ask for from a character concept? Don't let anyone tell you that monks can't rock in combat, or that you have to have certain magic items to "be as good as X", or that you're a one trick pony, or that you need a spellcaster to buff you to be effective. Monks have an incredible array of abilities that allow him to excel at a lot of different things and to fill in many of the gaps of your party make-up. They're not weak, they're not sub-par and they're not taking up space in a combat that an animal companion or summoned creature would be better at filling. If you're considering playing a monk- do it! You'll love the exceptional versatility and one of the most well-rounded and self-reliant classes in the book.

Just my experience talking here. Hope you get the same from your monk.

It's a little murky on the belt though cause you can add 'new' functionality to weapons and armor besides enchantment bonuses, but that may be a slightly different kettle of fish.

True, but the weapons and armor specifically state that you may add those special abilities to them and have subcategories and tables associated with them. These wondrous items do not have those.

These may not be great examples, but I'm shooting from the hip here. Ioun stones allow for enhancement bonuses to abilities but you cannot upgrade a deep red sphere of +2 Dex to also have a +2 Con, as it is a separate item altogether. You cannot upgrade a ring of minor spell storing to a ring of major spell storing as they are 2 separate items and have separate entries. Nor could you upgrade a ring of jumping to a ring of improved jumping for the same reason. You could, however, upgrade a rod of lesser extend to a rod of greater extend and a ring of wizardry I to a ring of wizardry II or a ring of minor energy resistance to a ring of major energy resistance because these upgrades fall under the same item heading.

Other, less compelling evidence (but still worth considering) is in the flavor text of the items. The belt of dexterity has a silver buckle and physical might has a steel buckle. I realize this is weak and maybe just semantics and for flavor, but I'm mentioning it here because undoubtedly someone will point out that ioun stones are different kinds of stones and therefore cannot be upgraded with different enhancements. And my point is that the stone types appear to be more for flavor text in differentiating between them (much like the belts and headbands) rather than for mechanic-based reasons for their composition the way adamantine vs cold iron weapons are. Someone can easily and reasonably argue that the change in buckle is part of the upagrade cost, so I'm not hanging my hat on this argument. I'm just using it to point out that flavor text is often added to help differentiate between similar items with different properties.

The last point regarding the item text is where it says under the belt of physical might description that the "bonuses are chosen when the belt is created and cannot be changed." I realize that this is primarily meant to keep people from shifting the bonues around whenever they feel like it, but it also affirms that if you want different bonuses to other abilities you cannot do it with this belt; you'd need a different belt. You can upgrade these bonuses with higher enhancements, but you cannot change the attributes to which they pertain. It also says you choose the bonuses when it is 'created', not created or altered from a different type of belt.

It seems pretty clear to me that we're talkling about completely separate items. Otherwise there would only need to be one entry for the belt of physical perfection with costs for implementing and upgrading enhancements when adding in other ability score bumps.

Just my two cents here. Not looking to make trouble. :-)

If possible I would like this confirmed by Josh (or somebody with his proxy). I'm not trying to be difficult, it's just that that the rules in this case are somewhat ambiguous. The specific language is:

Quote:

For ease of play in Pathfinder Society, a masterwork item can always be upgraded to a +1 item without paying for the masterwork cost again. In essence, you’re paying the difference. This applies to upgrading from a +1 item to a +2 item and so on—you never have to repay the original cost or sell your current item for half to upgrade to the next step. Note that this only applies to the same item—you can’t, for example, turn your masterwork rapier into a +1 greatsword.

The rule uses the word "item", not "armor or weapon". Since standard non-armor/weapon items, such as backpacks and amulets can be masterwork (we know this because the wizard's arcane focus can be masterwork), it would be possible to argue that the rule would apply to miscellaneous magic items as well, in particular amulets and belts of stat increases.

Fortunately this question hasn't come up in our local group yet.

The belt can be "upgraded" to a +4 or +6 but that's all. The belt of physical might is a separate item altogether, unfortunately, so a belt of dexterity cannot be upgraded to a belt of physical might. And the entire section of rules in the book for creating items with different types of abilities (eg, ring of protection AND invisibility) are not available in PFS.

Being pedantic:

Create Water, pg 262 wrote:

... possibly creating a downpour ...

Weather, pg 437 wrote:

Downpour: Treat as rain

Concentration, pg 207 wrote:

Wind with rain or sleet while casting 5 + spell level

Seems about right to me both in the spirit and guidelines of the rules. Worth a flyer if you have little else to do, but you'd be better off with acid splash as a cheapo counterspell attempt.

I agree with FarmerBob. The linkage of terms for a downpour, rain and the effects of rain on spellcasting are pretty clear. It's not a guaranteed distraction but it's a Hail Mary when you've got nothing else to do at low level.

PCs and NPCs are a cut above the normal population. And spellcasters specialize in casting spells in combat situations and hostile environments. It takes a lot to distract their 'heroic' concentration- especially at higher levels. If they can take an arrow in the back or a cut from a sword and still have a pretty good chance of completing their spells, a deluge of rain should not be as difficult to deal with. Heck, casting a spell underwater while holding your breath is a DC 15 + spell level and that would be MUCH more difficult to do than trying to get a spell off in a bad rainstorm.

Treat the Create Water distraction as if it were a downpour of rain (exactly as the spell description outlines) and apply the RAW for casting in a rainstorm. You adhere to the rules without making on-the-spot adjudications that will vary from table to table and from DM to DM. The power level is balanced and useful only at lower levels when there is actually a chance for failure. It makes sense, satisfies the rules and is balanced. What else can you ask for?

Thanks to the guys that set this up. I had fun.

Mike

I couldn't agree more. Mark did a fantastic job organizing, marketing, marshalling and making sure everyone who wanted to play, did. It really exemplifies the Paizo Pathfinder Society mentality of never turning anyone away. He's got my vote for Regional Coordinator!

Keep it up, Mark!

Agreed, We'll be making Pathfinder at Scotty's a regular Wed night tradition. Also, thanks to the DMs who ran the events. To the guy that ran Shipyard Rats for us at 6:00, I think that experience turned my fiancee into a PFS fan!

Edit: "The Guy," John Weber be thy name.

What a great compliment for a DM! Thanks for that. I really enjoyed running that mod for you guys, too. A lot of good roleplaying and interaction with the characters. You played Garland, right? And your fiancee played Sera? Very glad you both enjoyed yourselves. I'll keep an eye out for you next year.

John

Since there's an opening at 1:00 for Scale the Dragon, I'd love to play one before I DM the 6 pm slot. Any chance I could take the remaining seat at that table, Mark?

John Weber

I have a couple of suggestions that might help get your game off on the right foot before it even begins by promoting good character development and role-playing (if that's what you like) and limiting/ redirecting the power-gaming tendancies of some players.

Like many 3.5 players, I tend to come up with a character concept based on mechanics- classes/ PrCs/ abilities I like or want to try out and then build a brief outlook-on-life for the character. I used to let the character develop as I played and had a pretty good time doing that. However, I've gotten a lot more out of my gaming since I've been using the following role-playing 'tools'.

I have a friend who sent started up a home-brew campaign and before he DM'ed the first session he made everyone send him a detailed backstory for his/ her character. I have this 'character questionnaire' that I used for that purpose and have continued to use it in developing all my characters' backstories and personalites since then.

The questionnaire is essentially 100 questions asked in a format like a TV interview that you answer in first person as your character. The questions range over topics of family members and relationships, personal tastes and opinions, physical traits, other people's opinions of you, your childhood and education, people who influenced your life, political and religous views, prejudices, personal preferences for 'off-duty' R&R, self image, etc. I've found that even after I have a pretty solid character concept, I'm surpirised by the answers I come up with. The character just sort of emerges- and it's quite often very different from what I had originally imagined (and very different from how I personally would answer and different from all of the other characters I make, as well). In addition, it becomes much, much easier to get into, and stay in, character while I'm at the table. My characters are robust and a lot more fun to play. It's really improved my role-playing. I'm much less inclined to min-max, as it goes against what my character would do (now that I know him so well).

As the DM, you get to approve of these character concepts as you read them or tell the player he needs more substance or that his idea simply won't work in your campaign and then offer some advice that might help him get where he's wanting to go. You'll find the power-gamers will redirect their energy into making better characters with more life than anything they've played before (I know- I was one of those power-gamers). They have a larger investment in the characters after all that hard work AND they know their characters better and become better role-players.

Second, in our games we always have a stipulation that each PC has to have at least 1 rank in a Craft or Profession skill at 1st level. They weren't born adventurers, they made a conscious decision to become adventurers. The rationale is that they had to have done/ learned something useful in life (besides killing monsters) before setting out on their own. There's always some opportunity to use that skill somewhere along the line. When I first started doing this I hated having to waste a skill point. As a result, I used it whenever I could just so I could get some use out of an otherwise 'useless' skill. I found it improved the game for me as I was on the lookout for opportunities and therefore was thinking like my PC- which is always a good thing.

Hopefully this can help your game both as a DM and as a player. If not, then disregard it. If anyone's interested in the questionnaire, I'd be happy to email it to you.
jmweber9(at)yahoo.com

Game on.

...is, unfortunately, going to be delayed by a week. I hope to be able to reveal a sample scenario chronicle this Friday (and possibly more.) We're also combining the Player's Guide and GM's Guide into one document titled Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play. Our drop dead to release the PDF is 8/8.

Arrghh!

So much for slot 0s. Guess I'll just have to eat the 2 mods I'm running and hope for the best. Ah, well. Won't be the first time. :)

Speaking of which- since the Guide is delayed, does this mean that the scenarios the DMs are running for GenCon will be delayed in getting to us as well?

I don't know what modules I'm running. Although I *do* know I'm signed up for all eight slots. Beyond that... I don't know.

But.. I live in Bean Blossom.. which is just north of Nashville which is just north of Bloomington... so... thirty.. forty minutes or so from south side of indy.

I don't know of anyone else running slots for paizo.. but I also know the people I game with are not participating in the Pathfinder Society anyway. So, I might be able to recruit one or two of them.

Beyond that... do you have anyone you could bring in?

All eight slots? You're an IronMan!

I have a full group of players ready to play. We're trying to work out a day/ time. I have a DM willing to eat the mod(s) since he's not going to be playing at GC or participating in the Society until next year.

Right now, we're looking at Aug 1st, 2nd or 3rd as the following weekend is not possible.

Are you available during that weekend?

John - I plan on GMing for the society as well. This sounds like a great idea.

Count me in.

Paul-

Great! Where are you located? Hopefully you're in the Indianapolis area and we can schedule a slot 0 a week or two before GC.

Do you know of anyone else interested in slot 0ing with us? I'd prefer to organize a table with as many GMs as possible before inviting other people in.

Do you know which mods you'll be running? I'm signed up for 5 slots but I didn't specify which adventures I'd like to run- I'm leaving it all up to Paizo to determine where they need me most.

John

Hmm---I was assuming that when other GMs play in a slot 0, they don't read that mod so that they may play their own character once through the adventure before they have to run it themselves--and running those last minute was a practice frowned upon by Dave C. whenever I've been a Gen Con or DDXP GM.

If I got that wrong, my apologies!

Nope, you got it right. It's not the best way to handle the situation, but it IS an option. Remember that not everyone will be GMing every module and not everyone will be running their modules the very next day. A full night or day to prepare a four-hour module is plenty. I've DM'd hundreds of modules for Living Greyhawk and it usually takes me about 3 hours to FULLY prepare and offer a memorable gaming experience for the players. Of course, in LG GMs were quite often given the mod to prep and run just as the slot was starting and we had to run it completely cold- obviously NOT the best way to go. And, as Dave can attest to, sometimes the senior GM (at Origins and GC) was still printing off the 'revised' or 'just finished' modules minutes before the slot was scheduled to start. I agree with Dave that it should be frowned upon, however, it still happened occasionally.

Back to the point... If a GM wants to play a mod before he runs it he's encouraged to do it with other GMs or a home group long before GC starts. However, sometimes circumstances change things and if the GM can make it into town the day before the con starts, it behooves us to have other people (GMs who may not be running that same module and who have not already played that mod) willing to sit down and play it with him in a slot 0 in order to fill out a table.

I'd like to reiterate that this is sort of a 'last resort' option and not the preferred or recommended option. That's why I was trying to organize slot 0s locally first and then a Wed slot 0 as a last ditch effort.

John

So, on August 1st we GMs will be getting the modules we'll be running for Gen Con. I'd really like to organize some slot 0s so we all get a chance to play most of these prior to judging them. I'd be willing to eat 1 or 2 but I'd like to play in the others, if possible.

I live in the Indianapolis, IN area (where Gen Con is being held). How many other volunteer GMs live in/ around this area that would be willing to slot 0 an event or two?

In the event that we can't put together any slot 0s from the people on this list, I will get my local group to run some of these for me prior to GenCon and then I can run some slot 0s for you guys prior to your judging them. I usually help out with Living Greyhawk's Pre GenCon Madness the Wednesday before the con starts. Since LG is now defunct, I won't be DMing there this year and so I could very easily switch to run PF slot 0s instead.

If we CAN get a table together here in the Indy area (or if anyone else plays these mods prior to coming in for the con), that means I'll have more people available (hopefully) to judge some 'last minute' slot 0s for the rest of you guys.

Please let me know:
- if you live in this area and would like to get a table together as soon as we get the mods on Aug 1st.

- if you can arrange your schedule to come in to Indy on Tuesday night or Wednesday and would like to slot 0 a module.

- if you can slot 0 your mods at home, then volunteer to GM the slot 0s here in Indy on Wednesday.

If there's enough of a response, I'll set up an account on Warhorn to get everyone signed up to play. Feel free to post here or email me off-list: jmweber9@comcast.net

Lastly, if anyone has any questions regarding Indy and how to get around, hotels to stay at, etc. please feel free to email me off-list about that, too.

John Weber