Dammerung's page

Anyone have a guess on why the Giant Porcupine (Bestiary 3) has a feat that makes them weaker? The creature has a 17 Strength and a 12 Dexterity and the Agile Maneuvers feat baseline.

The benefit of the feat, which turns out to be a penalty for the porcupine, is that the creature's Combat Maneuver Bonus is calculated by adding Dexterity (instead of Strength) when determining its CMB.

Do you think this was just a basic oversight during the creation process? Seems odd to assign a feat to a creature that makes it weaker.

Can a wizard with an arcane bond item take a level of Sorcerer with the Tattooed Sorcerer archetype? It would appear this multi-class (archetype) combination is not possible because selection of an arcane bond “is permanent and cannot be changed.” Since the Tattooed Sorcerer grants the sorcerer a familiar and they are not allowed to have an arcane bond item, it would seem that these two character models are mutually exclusive. Is it fair to say that only wizards who have taken the familiar option when selecting their arcane bond at first level are eligible to take the Tattooed Sorcerer archetype down the road?

So once a mimic successfully hits a target with its slam attack, is the character basically stuck inside its adhesive powered grappling and constrict machine until death?

More specifically, if character has no way of removing the adhesive, does the mimic automatically win successive grapple attempts on its turn (doing the slam and constrict damage) or are grapple checks between the mimic and its victim held normally, and in the event the character wins they are still stuck fast (but without the grappled condition) to the mimic?

Below are the descriptions for the mimic's adhesive and the constrict power.

Adhesive (Ex)
A mimic exudes a thick slime that acts as a powerful adhesive, holding fast any creatures or items that touch it. An adhesive-covered mimic automatically grapples any creature it hits with its slam attack. Opponents so grappled cannot get free while the mimic is alive without removing the adhesive first. A weapon that strikes an adhesive-coated mimic is stuck fast unless the wielder succeeds on a DC 17 Reflex save. A successful DC 17 Strength check is needed to pry off a stuck weapon. Strong alcohol or universal solvent dissolves the adhesive, but the mimic can still grapple normally. A mimic can dissolve its adhesive at will, and the substance breaks down 5 rounds after the creature dies. The save DC is Strength-based.

Constrict (Ex)
A creature with this special attack can crush an opponent, dealing bludgeoning damage, when it makes a successful grapple check (in addition to any other effects caused by a successful check, including additional damage). The amount of damage is given in the creature's entry and is typically equal to the amount of damage caused by the creature's melee attack.
Format: constrict (1d8+6); Location: Special Attacks.
FAQ/Errata
When a creature with the constrict universal monster rule grapples a foe, when does it deal constrict damage?
A creature with constrict deals this additional damage every time it makes a successful grapple check against a foe. This includes the first check to establish the grapple (such as when using the grab universal monster rule).

Good call on the "call" catch Mauril... :-) Your two additional quotes seems to slide in in the missing pieces on this one. In my campaign I have offered the player a significantly culled back re-calling blackout period, dropping it from 30 to 3 days, but keeping the -1 to attack and damage during the 3 day window.

AerynTahlro wrote:

Quote:

Stone Servant (Su): At 5th level, a stonelord may call a Small earth elemental to her side, as a paladin calls her mount. This earth elemental is Lawful Good in alignment and possesses the celestial template, and it increases in size as the stonelord gains levels, becoming Medium at 8th level, Large at 11th level, Huge at 14th level, Greater at 17th level, and Elder at 20th level. This ability replaces divine bond.

It looks to me that you basically get an elemental as your companion. Except for also having the Celestial template, the elemental simply uses the stats in the bestiary based on the size that you're able to call. No stat advancement or bonus abilities from standard animal companion advancement seem to be used here. And yes, it would be 'permanent'. Being that the ability doesn't state that you take a penalty should the elemental die, that's off the table.

The ability completely replaces Divine Bond, it doesn't modify the mount option of Divine Bond. So take it at face value and pretend that for the purposes of this ability, Divine Bond doesn't exist.

Thanks, I think this makes the most sense from what I've seen thus far. I'll pass this along to my DM and hopefully this will resolve any issues.

I do hope Paizo still clarifies this in the future printings.

I don’t come to the same conclusion Aeryn. I do agree that the power’s description is flawed because it appears to be missing clarity, but I think you need to balance the first sentence against the last.

“Stone Servant (Su): At 5th level, a stonelord may call a Small earth elemental to her side, as a paladin calls her mount.”

In my mind, the critical piece of this sentence comes at the end, where it states “as a paladin calls her mount.” If the Stonelord was not supposed to use the summoning/death rules of a bonded paladin mount, then Paizo would have not mentioned the paladin mount at all in this power description. Also, at no point in the description is the word “permanent” used. If that was the intent, I would think that the team at Paizo would have rewritten the first sentence as “At 5th level, a Stonelord my call a Small earth elemental to her side as a permanent companion.” Presumably, this line would have been followed with an explanation on that calling process and how the Stonelord repeats the call in the event her Earth Elemental is slain.

I am more apt to believe that the last line of the description that states “This ability replaces divine bond”, should have been written as “This replaces the divine bond ability, with the exception of the death and recalling mechanics of the bonded mount.”

Hopefully a Paizo developer will weigh in with some behind the curtain feedback.

Slightly mortified for the simplicity of the answer, but thanks for the speed of the response!

A rogue that is flanking her allies fails her saving throw against a Hold Person spell. When her turn in the initiative order arrives, she takes a full-round action to break free of the spell effect. My understanding of the Hold Person spell and the full-round action rules is that she can attempt to break free as a full-round action, but even if she is successful on her save, the fact that it requires a full-round action to break means she is still effectively paralyzed until the beginning of the her next turn. If that holds true, the rogue would not offer a flanking bonus to her allies until her next turn, because she is in the process of breaking free for her entire round and thus would not threaten. Am I reading the rules wrong? Part of my assessment comes from the fact casters that cast a full-round summoning spell can be forced to make a Concentration Check or lose the spell from taking damage before their next turn when the spell goes off.

I think the skeletal champion template works like the skeleton template: lose most (if not all) class abilities. Whether it is a 15th level human fighter or a 1st level human wizard, the skeleton that is created from the remains is the same.

Consider the graveknight instead.

Love the graveknight template. I think I will go this route - thanks MillerHero.

MillerHero, you would be mistaken. The Skeleton template clearly states you lose feats, skills, defensive abilities, special attacks, etc. before telling you what you gain. The Skeletal Champion template doesn't say you lose anything, just what you gain.

Now, the Skeleton Champion template rules are a little wonky. If you follow the "CR: A skeletal champion's CR is +1 higher than a normal skeleton with the same HD (see page 250)." to the letter, then you get into a weird situation where if you take a level 18 Wizard (CR 17), and apply the Skeleton Champion template to it, it becomes more powerful, but it's CR drops to 8.

I just do original CR+1 OR normal skeleton CR+1, which ever is higher. (This keeps it so the Bestiary Skeleton Champion, a Warrior 1, remains CR 2). I find that this gives a good representation of it's power.

So in the case of a Skeleton Champion Cavalier 6, I would give it a CR 6.

For your second question, there aren't any rules that really cover what happens to an animal companion in such an instance. But if it is an NPC, you have a few options.
1) It doesn't have a companion anymore.
2) It's companion went under the same process as the master, and you apply the skeleton champion template to it.
3) It has acquired a more appropriate companion after death (such as a Nightmare).

Thanks Merkatz - think this response best speaks to my question!

Dammerung wrote:

EvilMinion wrote:

I'd put the CR at 7.

Linking the skeletal champion to the normal skeletal template is kind of confusing though.

Typically, making a skeleton strips class HD. So build the skeleton first, then add the class levels. Should get the expected CR.

So human skeleton (1/3 CR)
Upgrade to skeletal champion (2 CR)
Add 5 melee related class levels (7 CR)

Just don't forget adding class levels also bumps its stats all over.

That's how I'd do it, anyway.

Thanks for your response EvilMinion. To be clear though, I am not suggesting applying the skeleton template to the creature. The reason I reference the skeleton in my calculation, is because in the Bestiary under the CR calculation for skeletal champion's, is specifically recommends calculating off the model below:

CR: A skeletal champion's CR is +1 higher than a normal skeleton with the same HD (see page 250).

Since you can only apply the "Skeletal Champion" as an acquired template to any corporeal creature (other than an undead) that has a skeletal system, I'm not sure you could apply the skeletal champion template to a basic human skeleton given the rules on page 252 of the bestiary.

Heh, nah, I wasn't talking about actually applying skeleton template... I was just trying to work with the wording of skeletal champion, that seems to base alot of things off of 'as normal skeleton' type descriptors.

ie: CR = normal skeleton cr +1
Well, you can't make a 5th level cavalier into a 5th level cavalier skeleton. Its a poorly worded template is all.

If you just assume you start with a default human skeletal champion, and then add the class levels afterwards, it all makes more sense.

I am interpreting the NPC CR calculation rule wrong? You are giving a 1 to 1 conversion on the level 5 Cavalier. I thought the Core Rulebook stated that NPC's with class levels should be calculated as one level lower for CR purposes?

I'd put the CR at 7.

Linking the skeletal champion to the normal skeletal template is kind of confusing though.

Typically, making a skeleton strips class HD. So build the skeleton first, then add the class levels. Should get the expected CR.

So human skeleton (1/3 CR)
Upgrade to skeletal champion (2 CR)
Add 5 melee related class levels (7 CR)

Just don't forget adding class levels also bumps its stats all over.

That's how I'd do it, anyway.

Thanks for your response EvilMinion. To be clear though, I am not suggesting applying the skeleton template to the creature. The reason I reference the skeleton in my calculation, is because in the Bestiary under the CR calculation for skeletal champion's, is specifically recommends calculating off the model below:

CR: A skeletal champion's CR is +1 higher than a normal skeleton with the same HD (see page 250).

Since you can only apply the "Skeletal Champion" as an acquired template to any corporeal creature (other than an undead) that has a skeletal system, I'm not sure you could apply the skeletal champion template to a basic human skeleton given the rules on page 252 of the bestiary.

Question One: Am I interpreting the CR calculation rules correctly?

1) “A creature that possesses class levels, but does not have any racial Hit Dice, is factored in as a creature with a CR equal to its class level -1.” Since a human cavalier has no racial hit dice it would fall under this category? Therefore a level 6 human cavalier (using the heroic NPC stat creation statistics and equipment guidelines) would be a CR 5 creature.
2) When adding in the skeletal champion template (2 HD for skeletal champion + 5HD for cavalier levels) the equivalent skeleton would be 7HD or CR 4. The rules for the skeletal champion state that a skeletal champion’s CR is +1 higher than a normal skeleton with the same HD.
3) Thus, based on this math would you conclude that the creature above has a CR of 5?

Question Two: Building a skeletal mount animal companion?
1) Are there rules or guidelines for what happens to an animal companion when a skeletal champion template (or other template for that matter) is applied? To provide some background I want to use a miniature of a mounted skeletal warrior on a skeletal horse. Wondering if I should just apply skeleton/skeletal champion to the animal companion.

Thanks
Jeremy

@ Maerimydra - Excellent, excellent point on the mutual surprise at being summoned. I feel a bit embarassed that I didn't reach the logical conclusion on my own, but I appreciate that last post immensely. Even without the thematic "summoning-in-progress" effects, I think that puts the nail in the coffin for me.

Thank you again to everyone who replied.

Wow- excellent discussion and appreciate all the feedback. I guess I was always under the impression that while summoning a monster is a full round action for a wizard (not considering summoners or clerics with the Sacred Summoning feat), the player actually selects the point of appearance of the creature on the round that it arrives -- not when they begin casting the spell.

Outside of Hecknoshows thematic indication (shafts of sunlight, cracking earth, etc. -- which I love and think will answer/resolve the question in my mind) it would seem like the creature would appear out of thin air (similar to a creature attacking from a state of invisibility) and subsequently catch the intended target off guard.

I suspect this answer is no they are not, but in theory, I don't think there is any signs that the monster is about to appear and in many respects, its like an invisible creature suddenly pops into existence in that spot. On the flip side, the creature appears and you could argue it takes a few seconds for it to locate and attack its target, eliminating the surprise of the intended victim...

This issue has not come up in my game, I was just pondering it on the way to work this morning.

I am guessing the answer from the boards will be quick and definitive :-)

Thanks
- J

I am big fan of variant summoning tables (I helped a player who was running a druid of Aedrie Faeyna create one based on faeries and avians) and recently got approval from a new DM for themed summoning list below. This is for a Golarion, dwarf conjurer who hails from the Ironbound Archipelago and has traveled a good deal in the Linnorm Kings. Below is the synopsis and reasoning I presented to my DM along with the subsequent table. It’s been approved by my DM, but I was curious if there are other casters (particularly clerics, druids and wizards) out there that have created other themed lists for their home campaigns.

“…Specifically, I would like to request a summoning table that reflects my character’s alignment(Lawful Good), animals that he would have observed directly or read about in his homeland, and the elements of fire and earth that are so closely associated with dwarves, crafting and metallurgy. On the converse, I would like to remove from the available summoning list the vast majority of amphibians and vermin (with the exception being those creatures that potentially exist in a temperate or cold environment), all dinosaurs and animals from tropical/warm locals, and any summoned outsiders of evil alignment.

• Foreign Environment: Creatures that would not be native to the Linnorm Kings or Varisia. This covers most creatures of the dinosaur type or creatures that are listed as exclusively living in some type of warm climate.
• Summoning is an evil act: Outsiders from the Abyss or Hell that my character would not summon based on his good alignment.
• Companion to an ancestral enemy: Only one animal (goblin dog) fell into this category.
• Amphibians and Vermin: Largely these creatures were excluded by their environment, but I still culled a few more that would have qualified strictly for thematic purposes."

As a rule of thumb, I removed twice as many options as I added and I made sure that the CR of the creature added matches that of the current summoning spell level. This helps limit the argument of "selection gluttony" and truly makes you think about what additions would be ideal and appropriate.

1st Level
Badger*
Dire rat*
Dog, Riding*
Dolphin*
Eagle*
Fire beetle*
Pony (horse)*
Viper (snake)*

2nd Level
Elemental (small)
Elk*
Gar*
Horse*
Magma Elemental (small)
Octopus*
Ram*
Squid*
Wolf*

3rd Level
Aurochs (herd animal)*
Axe Beak*
Azer
Boar*
Dire Badger*
Dire bat*
Giant Porcupine*
Harbringer Archon
Lantern Archon
Leopard (cat)*
Shark*
Thoqqua
Wolverine*

4th Level
Bison (herd animal)*
Dire boar*
Dire wolf*
Dire Wolverine*
Elemental (medium)
Giant wasp*
Grizzly bear*
Hound Archon
Magma Elemental (medium)
Megaloceros* (dire elk)
Mephit (any)

5th Level
Bralani Azata
Cloaker*
Elemental (large)
Giant Owl*
Glacier Toad*
Magma Elemental (large)
Orca (dolphin)*
Woolly rhinoceros*

6th Level
Dire bear*
Dire tiger*
Elemental (huge)
Giant octopus*
Invisible stalker
Legion Archon
Lillend Azata
Magma Elemental (huge)
Stone Giant*

7th Level
Dire shark*
Elemental (greater)
Giant squid*
Magma Elemental (greater)
Mastadon (elephant)*
Shield Archon

8th Level
Azer Cleric 9*
Elemental (elder)
Magma Elemental (elder)

9th Level
Astral deva (angel)
Ghaele Azata
Trumpet Archon

I am planning to start a Pathfinder Campaign using the Carrion Crown adventure series later this month (likely the 3rd or 4th week of November). Our current group has three players and we would like to bring that up to four or five. We play Wednesday night at my house in downtown from 7 to 11:30. We are regular career guys (all with full time jobs and/or academic responsibilities) that happen to play D&D one night a week. We appreciate diversity, a good laugh, role-play, bedeviling the bad guys and eating deliciously unhealthy food one night a week. For more information about the upcoming campaign, please visit my campaign site on Obsidian Portal: http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/dark-fortune

Taking splash weapon mastery from the adventurer's armory next level might help a bit, it would allow him to adjust where the missed bomb goes so as to help not hit party members. also remember splash dmg allows for a reflex save for half...

Yeah - I am aware of the half damage thing, but I think at this point the rest of the party is saying "Stop! WTF?!?! We are in combat, use a different weapon until its safe!" and the alchemist is hurling away...

Character build - I think min-maxing is a separate issue from the character's behavior, and one that you've missed the best opportunity to correct by allowing the min-maxed character to be played. Once a character has been allowed into the game, it's received the GM's approval, and it's (socially) more difficult to force a change. But, it's not impossible! If the other four players build under a set of guidelines that the new player didn't obey, you could ask that the new character be modified to fit those guidelines.

Alignment - What is the alchemist's alignment, and the alignment of the other four party members? If everyone is neutral-evil, then they're getting just what they asked to play. On the other hand, it would be very difficult for either a lawful or a good character to behave that way and not undergo an alignment shift, attract the attention of the authorities or other heroes, etc.

Story cohesion - Why are the First Four willing to travel with that jerk? (I mean the First Four characters, and the jerky alchemist - not the players.) There must be some reason why he was allowed to start traveling with them, right? Is it a good enough reason that they would continue to have him around after he starts melting their faces and killing their mounts? You could help the players tell a story where either the alchemist 1) has a change of heart and behaves civilly, 2) leaves the party, 3) gets killed.

This is a perfect summary of where my head is at this point. I guess I was wanting to see if I was missing something, before I approach the player about getting him a change of heart and civility lessons.

I think it's mostly going to depend on the player wanting to fit into the group to begin with. The old "don't be a jerk" part of the social contract. It's the same as a caster catching his comrades and bystanders in AoEs without a care. They're @#$%ing where they eat.

That said, no good aligned alchemist(or neutral or evil alchemists that don't want to be hanged) with an INT mod that high should be going without Precise Bombs. That is an absolute must if they want to be accepted within a party.

The alchemist in our party understands that she's throwing around exploding death. She doesn't take throws that could potentially endanger innocents, and Precise Bombs was one of the first things she went for. Being good and actually caring about those around her helped too, admittedly.

This Alchemist does actually have precise bombs. Its when the character misses that the party seems to get chewed up by the damage. As they are still fairly low in level (4th), even the automatic splash damage (or direct hit) is fairly deadly. The attitude of the alchemist seems to be at this point, I know I am taking a risk by throwing into an area where my allies are meleeing a target, but is disregarding the impacts of a missed attack.

I have a new player that joined my home campaign, bringing the number to five. The player created an Alchemist and used the point buy method. While the individual told me they were not a min/maxer, they proceeded to buy their strength and charisma down to 7, while raising their intellect and dexertity to 20. The player thus far (who I like very much out of game) has been undermining the efforts of the other party members as it relates to the local NPC population and seems indifferent to the fact his bombs, when they miss, injure his comrades. This latter fact, which nearly killed a player last evening and did kill his mount, are causing a great deal of static and discomfort at my table.
Has anyone else dealt with the alchemist “Ooops, I burned your face off again!” situation? Would appreciate any advice.

Thanks
Jeremy

I have a player interested in playing an Alchemist and he wants to take the Two-Weapon Fighting feat (after he gets the fast bomb discovery) to unleash multiple bombs from each hand in a given round. My general concern is focused around the act of making bombs, which states “alchemists are adept at swiftly mixing various volatile chemicals and infusing them with their magical reserves to create powerful bombs.” The description also goes on to state that “Bombs are unstable, and if not used in the round they are created, they degrade and become inert—their method of creation prevents large volumes of explosive material from being created and stored.” My interpretation of the word "mixing" is that it would require two hands to combine the unstable chemicals necessary to create a bomb. Am I wrong in concluding that this use of the off hand in the mixing process would prohibit an Alchemist from holding something in their off hand (weapon, wand, etc.) or mixing/hurling a second flurry of bombs?

The second request from the player is to utilize Improved Weapon Mastery to increase the size of his bombs from d6 to d8 and increase the threat range from to 19-20. Bombs however, are splash weapons and don’t incur the same penalty as improvised weapons, so I am fairly confident that this feat would not apply to the Alchemist's bombs.

Please chime in with your perspective on both feats and let me know what your thoughts are.

Thanks
Jeremy