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If an invisible creature makes multiple, iterative attacks on their turn, do they gain the benefits of being invisible for their first attack only, or all of them?

Are there any good ways for an alchemist to avoid attacks of opportunity? Foes with good reach and Combat Reflexes can be a real pain when trying to use Fast Bombs!

If you are 6th level or higher, you can take the Spirit Talker feat.

If a character makes multiple attacks in a round of a type that provokes attacks of opportunity (eg a full attack with a ranged weapon, or an alchemist with Fast Bombs) and they are threatened by a foe with Combat Reflexes, does the foe get to make an AoO for each of the character's attacks, or only one AoO (for the full-round action)?

My players recently encountered a good-aligned creature that was behaving oddly - acting threateningly when they approached and not speaking to them - but they couldn't detect any magic effects on it. They realised that they wouldn't be able to detect a spell with an instantaneous duration, and the player of the witch PC asked if they knew of any specific spells that could create this observed behaviour, by virtue of her very high Knowledge (arcana) and Spellcraft skills. Is this a reasonable request? What might they know?

Tinalles wrote:

I'm running the fight against Karzoug tomorrow. One thing that makes high-level play difficult to run is that there's just so damn much to keep track of. In particular, I struggle to remember all the defenses of the monsters.

And so, for Karzoug -- and a little earlier, for Viorian Dekanti -- I took the time to put together flow charts for their defenses. Just so I would not forget anything. Here they are:

Karzoug's Defenses Flow Chart (PDF)

Viorian Dekanti's Defenses Flow Chart (PDF)

These are great - thanks very much! Can I suggest a couple of minor changes? It would be nice if the two starting boxes were on the top line alone, to make it clear that these are the start points.

For Karzoug, I'd move the 'CMD 38' and 'Miss' boxes so they are to the side of the boxes they come from, rather than above them (it's hard to see the direction of the arrows with the 'No' on when they're so short, too). You might have to shift the 'Grapple' box down to make this work.

For Viorian Dekanti, I'd have two copies of the '20% Miss Chance (Displacement)' box, one each for the Physical and Spell routes (which makes the arrows leading out of them cleaner), and then have the 'Miss' box in the centre, common to both. I also think there should be a 'No' arrow leading from the 'Touch attack?' box to the 'Allows SR?' box.

So you think the 16 pillars are around a 40-foot circle, and the column is 40 feet across, too? The description of the circle as 200 feet across comes from the first edition of RotR, where the whole of the Eye of Avarice was 200 feet across.

How does the ramp that leads up into the Pinnacle of Avarice work? The ground floor is "a huge circular room" with "a 200-foot-diameter polished stone circle on the floor surrounded by 16 immense pillars that rise up...to support a central column that itself extends all the way up to Karzoug’s personal chambers more than 2,000 feet above. A spiraling ramp wraps around the outer circumference of the lower 16 pillars up to the central column, continuing up its length". But on the 'Pinnacle of Avarice' map showing the chambers at the top, the ramp is only 120 feet across in total, made up of a 40-foot-wide ramp spiraling around a 40-foot-diameter central shaft.

Furthermore, the 'Pinnacle of Avarice' map appears to have 16 pillars around the outer circumference, but this is 460 feet in diameter. To further confuse matters, on the overland 'Spires of Xin-Shalast' map, the Pinnacle of Avarice is shown as being 600 feet in diameter.

Diego Rossi wrote:
pad300 wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:
Tremorsense give what the text says and nothing more. You can locate the square that a creature occupies.
Diego, I think your RAW interpretation is wrong. Anything is not restricted to creatures, it includes objects as well... The creature restriction is only for aquatic creatures through water.
Invisibility wrote:
A creature can generally notice the presence of an active invisible creature within 30 feet with a DC 20 Perception check. The observer gains a hunch that “something’s there” but can’t see it or target it accurately with an attack. It’s practically impossible (+20 DC) to pinpoint an invisible creature’s location with a Perception check. Even once a character has pinpointed the square that contains an invisible creature, the creature still benefits from total concealment (50% miss chance). There are a number of modifiers that can be applied to this DC if the invisible creature is moving or engaged in a noisy activity.
Pinpoint is very limited.

Diego, you are my favourite contributor to these forums - your answers are always so clear, and you have an amazing in-depth knowledge of the rules! However, on this rare occasion, I'm not sure that I agree with you. I don't think there's anything in the invisibility rules (or the other mentions of pinpointing) that suggests that it can only be used with respect to creatures.

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MrCharisma wrote:

For thise who don't understand the reasoning:


This is a line of enemies blocking the path. They are lined up from east to west.


This is the same 5 enemies blocking a different path. They are lined up from North-East to South-West.

Why is it that when facing one way they form a solid wall that people cannot step through, but when facing another way there are gaps in the wall?

Well, in the second diagram the enemies have spread out a bit, so they're farther apart. If they were like this:


you would say there's definitely room to step between them. When they're like this


you'd say there's definitely not room to step between them. The diagonal version is in-between those two, so it seems reasonable to say that this is the point where they're just far enough apart to step through.

But, of course, it's all just an approximate simulation!

Yes, that's the conclusion I came to, as well. However, the concentration check required for vigorous motion is DC 10 + spell level, which is pretty much a sure-fire success for mid- to high-level characters. And if the "mount" is only taking a single move, there's no penalty to ranged combat.

Can a (druid wildshaped into a) huge air elemental carry other medium creatures while flying? How many? Can those creatures cast spells while being carried? Make ranged attacks?

Can other medium creatures ride a huge air elemental while it is flying? How many? Can those creatures cast spells while riding? Make ranged attacks?

Using the guidelines for Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values for a ring of divine favor +3 gives a price of 72,000 gp (spell level 1 x caster level 9 x 2,000 gp x 4 for a spell duration measured in rounds). Does that seem right to you? It seems to compare reasonably with an amulet of mighty fists +4 (80,000 gp), given that it gives its bonus to any attack and weapon damage rolls, and it's a bonus type (luck) that will stack with many other standard attack and damage bonuses.

Can a zen archer monk select their bow for the monk weapon skill trait?

Thanks for your replies. Specific perception penalties for different types of precipitation are already given in the weather section.

It's the phrasing that puzzles me - saying "Light fog reduces visibility to three-quarters of the normal ranges" suggests that there are normal ranges for visibility (and these ranges should be outdoor ones, since rain, snow and fog are likely to be encountered outdoors).

Various things (eg precipitation) can reduce visibility ranges to three-quarters or half of normal. But what are normal visibility ranges outdoors?

Do the penalties to ranged attacks from fog and snow apply to a creature with the Improved Precise Shot feat? I guess they do, RAW, since these penalties aren't labelled as either cover or concealment. RAI, though, they do seem to me to represent a form concealment/cover (which is less than total).

Can incorporeal creatures be set on fire (say, by a fire storm spell)? I'm inclined to say that they can catch on fire, but the fire won't damage them.

When a menhir savant uses the spirit sense ability, can they tell which of the kinds of creature they are detecting?

What languages would have been spoken in ancient Thassilon? I'm asking in order to assign languages to an Int-boosting item that dates from that period.

What languages would have been spoken in ancient Thassilon?

You make some excellent points - it definitely is a mess!

The trouble with the other branching corridors is that, on the Runeforge map, they mostly look to be one-and-a-half squares wide (7-1/2 feet or 15 feet, depending on the scale). The maps for all the other wings show entry corridors that are clearly ten feet wide, which means they either have to narrow down or broaden out along the way! (Interestingly, in the original book these maps show the corridors as being wider towards the central chamber - but this was deliberately obscured in the Anniversary Edition.)

I recently ran this part of the adventure using Fantasy Grounds, and the central chamber didn't feel large enough with a scale of 1 square = 5 feet - particularly the corridors branching out of it. I'm definitely going to be making it bigger the next time I run it.

In Sins of the Saviors, D. The Runeforge, there is a discrepancy between the map scale and various parts of the text. The boxed text says that the "chamber is nearly two hundred feet across" and that each statue has "its back approximately ten feet from a partially concealed arched opening in the wall directly behind it." This text would need a map scale of 1 square = 10 feet, but the one shown on the map states 1 square = 5 feet. I believe it's the scale that is incorrect - a larger scale matches not only with the text, but also with the Huge construct in the encounter in Part Ten, A Runelord Enraged, and with the width of the corridor on the Halls of Wrath map.

avr wrote:

The robe of runes is missing that language because it was written up pre-Pathfinder, in D&D 3.5. In that system Int-enhancing items did not grant skill ranks. Ever.

When using D&D 3.x items in PF you need to adjust them sometimes for the new system.

That makes sense. However, the robe of runes was updated to Pathfinder rules in the Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition, but doesn't have any text about skill ranks there. That could just have been an oversight, I suppose. But the other two items (staff of mithral might and dance of seven veils) both appear in Pathfinder RPG products without any skill ranks text.

So, going back to my original question, how would you handle the skill ranks granted by these items?

Chell Raighn wrote:
"such as" does not equate to "functions as" or "is like" it equates to "for example".

I'm afraid that's not correct. "Such as" has two meanings: the one you gave ("for example") and the one I was referring to ("that are like"). See Merriam-Webster, for example: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/such%20as. The FAQ can be read with either meaning, although the convention is that when you are using "such as" to give an example, you precede the phrase with a comma. Since the comma is missing here, I'm inclined to read it with the second meaning.

Chell Raighn wrote:
That FAQ does in fact pertain to ALL Int-enhancing items, not just those that specifically call out rules for how to handle skill ranks from them.

It could be read that way, as I said above. But even if that was the intent, it would be making an assumption about Int-enhancing items that isn't actually supported by the rules. As far as I can see, there is no rule that says all Int-enhancing items grant ranks in specific skills. One shouldn't have to rely on an implication in the answer to a FAQ on a different topic!

zza ni wrote:

i specifically called out the words "such as" to show that it is not only talking about the int headband but any item that increase int.

lets read that line again:

"Technically, Int-enhancing items such as a headband of vast intelligence should grant a specific language (in the same way they do for skill ranks)."

the headband is just an example here. not named as the only item that the rules work with, but to show one of many that it apply to. the fact the first apart is actuly about increase int by leveling up bonus (the one you get every 4 levels) show that the mention of the headband is not to limit but to give an example. that and the words 'such as'

Thanks again, but I don't think that FAQ is saying that all Int-enhancing items grant specific skill ranks. Rather, it appears to be saying that those Int-enhancing items that are like ("such as") a headband of vast intelligence - those that grant specific skill ranks - should also grant a specific language. The trouble is, there are several Int-enhancing items that grant specific skill ranks (such as a headband of vast intelligence) and several that don't (such as a robe of runes). This FAQ doesn't say what you should do about those that don't.

Thanks, those links are helpful. However, the FAQ only refers to the headband of vast intelligence, not magic items in general. The trouble is, I can't find any general rule (or even guidance) about how this should be handled by default. The rule about granting ranks in sepcific skills is in the text of the headband of vast intelligence, but isn't repeated in every other Intelligence-boosting item.

Some items that grant enhancement bonuses to Intelligence (eg the staff of mithral might, dance of seven veils, robe of runes) make no mention of granting ranks in specific skills (unlike the headband of vast intelligence and others). How should the skill ranks granted by these items be handled? Should the player get to choose where to place them? Should they go on randomly-determined knowledge skills? Something else?

In Sins of the Saviors area A9, Outer Sanctum, the Scribbler's Suggestion trap creates a suggestion spell effect. Suggestion is language-dependent, but the trap doesn't specify what language is used. However, the only languages that the Scribbler speaks are Abyssal and Thassilonian, so whichever one is chosen, it's unlikely that many of the PCs will be affected by this trap.

In area A9, Outer Sanctum, the Scribbler's Suggestion trap creates a suggestion spell effect. Suggestion is language-dependent, but the trap doesn't specify what language is used. However, the only languages that the Scribbler speaks are Abyssal and Thassilonian, so whichever one is chosen, it's unlikely that many of the PCs will be affected by this trap. How have other GMs handled this?

Skeld wrote:
Runeforge in Sins of the Saviors ended up being one of my players' favorite parts of the campaign.

What did they like about it?

Hey, Sunderstone, one more question, if I may: why have you removed all the hill giants "for flavor"? To remove the Sihedron shard plotline, you could just remove the shard, couldn't you?

Sunderstone wrote:
I'm toying with the idea of eliminating Rimeskull altogether and replacing it with a reworked Giantslayer #4 but on a smaller scale. The frost giant village will be almost abandoned and at the base of Rimeskull as most of the giants have already been sent to Xin-Shalast.

Yes, I think I might leave Rimeskull out and just have the Scribbler's rhyme lead to Guiltspur.

I also feel as though the portal behind Mesmalatu, which leads to Runeforge, should need to be activated somehow. Maybe something like casting a spell of each school at the portal?

That's fantastic, Sunderstone, and very helpful!

One thing I'm not clear on is the transition from Rimeskull to Guiltspur. The sequence in SotS is that the PCs must cast appropriate spells on the stone heads (B), which cause them to release keys. These keys must then be taken down into the frozen cathedral (C3-5) and put into the pillars there. This opens a portal that leads to the demiplane of Runeforge (D). In your version, does this portal lead to Guiltspur?

Please cancel my Pathfinder Adventure Path subscription. Thank you!

Belegdel wrote:

So I worked up a 17th level version of Karzoug last night (Hero Labs is a godsend) and he is still a TPK waiting to happen.

Would you mind sharing your 17th-level version of Karzoug, if you still have it?

I'm thinking of skipping Sins of the Saviors and taking my group straight from Fortress of the Stone Giants into Spires of Xin-Shalast. I don't think my group will enjoy Sins of the Saviors, as it's mainly a long dungeon-crawl with little to liven it up, and nothing significant in terms of the story other than gaining dominant weapons (which can be achieved some other way). Would this be a foolish idea? Are there any problems that you can foresee?

Of course, this would mean that I would have to scale down the encounters in Spires of Xin-Shalast to be appropriate for a party of 13th-15th level. Is that do-able? Has anyone tried something similar?

Another great post - thanks, Askar Avari!

Again, my issue is really that Runeforge is mentioned for the first (and only) time on the map in Mokmurian's lair, and no mention is made of what might be found out about it in the Therassic library. Given this, it doesn't seem particularly important, and yet it is where the PCs are supposed to head in the very next chapter! Given Karzoug's dramatic speech at Mokmurian's death, it's not surprising for the players to focus on finding Xin-Shalast, especially given the detailed information about it available in the library. I just feel something more is needed to help the players understand the importance of Runeforge.

Thanks, outshyn, all that is very helpful! It does seem odd to me that there is only one mention of Runeforge in Mokmurian's lair - on the map - and no guidance is given on researching it in the library. Conversely, lots of information can be discovered about Xin-Shalast and Karzoug, which tends to encourage the PCs to start searching for Xin-Shalast right away. If I were to rewrite this section, I'd add notes written by Mokmurian indicating that he thought it was important to find Runeforge (why would he think it important?), and remove Karzoug's reference to Xin-Shalast. I'd also replace the set of Knowledge (history) checks about Xin-Shalast with ones about Runeforge.

Your reminder about Father Zantus' sending spell is a good one, though. I'll use that to stop my players heading off in search of Xin-Shalast.

Am I missing something, or is there not really any lead to encourage the PCs to go back to Sandpoint after defeating Mokmurian? The text says “It’s likely, however, that the PCs head back to Sandpoint soon enough on their own, particularly if they found the notes in Mokmurian’s lair that spoke of his concern about the chambers below Sandpoint housing a “traitor to Runelord Karzoug.” However, I can't find any such notes mentioned in Mokmurian's lair. The only related thing is the map of the Lost Coast, which has a note reading “Hellfire Flume ruins — foundation stones from each would know where the traitor Xaliasa dwelt, and perhaps where he hid his key to Runeforge.” But this doesn't encourage the PCs to return to Sandpoint - it merely gives the explanation of why Mokmurian wanted a stone from the Old Light. Given what Karzoug says through Mokmurian, isn't it more likely that they will try to find Xin-Shalast?

What did you do to get your PCs to return to Sandpoint?

I agree, that FAQ is confusing! It doesn't actually specifically say that a bard's inspire courage will affect those spells, though - just that "effects that affect weapons work on these spells." My view is that inspire courage would affect the attack and damage rolls made with a flame blade, as you are wielding the blade yourself. Conversely, inspire courage would not affect the attack and damage rolls made for a mage's sword or a spiritual weapon, as those spells make their own attacks.

Balkoth wrote:
If a PC casts Spiritual Weapon, what buffs increase the attack/damage of the spell's attacks?

The weapon "uses your base attack bonus...plus your Wisdom modifier as its attack bonus", "dealing 1d8 force damage per hit, + 1 point per three caster levels (maximum +5 at 15th level)", so only buffs that affect those things (or that can somehow affect the weapon directly) would affect the weapon's attack or damage.

Balkoth wrote:

1, does an active Inspire Courage increase attack?

2, does an active Inspire Courage increase damage?

No - the weapon is not the bard's ally (so it can't be affected directly), and inspire courage doesn't affect the PC's BAB, Wisdom modifier or caster level.

Balkoth wrote:
3, does a Heroism cast on the PC increase attack?

No - heroism doesn't affect the PC's BAB, Wisdom modifier or caster level.

Balkoth wrote:
4, can you cast Heroism on the "spell" to increase its attack?

No - the target for heroism is "creature touched".

Balkoth wrote:

5, does a Prayer active when the spell is cast result in increased attack/damage for the spell?

6, does a Prayer cast once the spiritual weapon exists/is active increase the attack/damage for the spell's attacks?

No - the weapon is not the cleric's ally (so it can't be affected directly), and prayer doesn't affect the PC's BAB, Wisdom modifier or caster level.

Conversely, an owl's wisdom targeting the PC who cast the spiritual weapon would increase the weapon's attack bonus.

I see what you mean about the FAQ, Jeff. So, your view is that source severance on a Medium creature will affect the creature's square and three other squares around one corner of the creature's square? I can see this point of view, based on the general rule that "The point of origin of a spell is always a grid intersection." However, I see that rule as being trumped by the spell's specific definition of "centered on you". So I think it's probably best to use the FAQ approach for Medium creatures, too.

I don't think I'd include the corners of a 15' cube in the area affected - but that's not going to make any practical difference the vast majority of the time!

That's very helpful, avr - thanks! I hadn't seen that FAQ. So what it's effectively saying is that a Medium creature will actually affect a 15-foot-diameter sphere with source severance.

The area affected by the spell source severance is a "5-ft.-radius emanation, centered on you". What squares on the grid does this affect, if you are a Medium creature? Just yours? Yours, and the the four squares orthogonal to you? Yours, and the eight squares around you?

What squares does this affect if you are a Large creature? How about if you are a Huge creature?

Now, suppose you are a creature with some spells active on you, standing adjacent to a creature under the effect of a source severance that would suppress your spells. If you are a Large creature, does the source severance suppress your active spells? How about if you are a Huge creature? Does the answer to these questions depend on how many of your squares are in the area of the source severance?

Is there a list anywhere of what the locations are illustrated by icons on the beautiful map of Thassilon in this volume? I know some are new, but many of them must be known, or named, at least.

My party scouted Jorgenfist using arcane eye and then dimension doored to the library area. My question is: should I award them XP for all the encouters they've bypassed? They are already lagging behind the expected advancement level somewhat.

I have a player who would like to play a skald with a bear as an animal companion. Is this possible? If so, what's the easiest way to achieve it? He'll be starting at 11th level.


Are the heights of the various buildings in Sandpoint listed anywhere? Longtooth is about to attack the town in my game, and I'm wondering how high up he'll be when he's "periodically landing on the roofs of sturdy buildings"...

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