This is only my 64th post, although I have been on the boards since at least the Shackled City AP, so a few years.
I guess that officially makes me a lurker.
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I might as well go on record and say that I hope Paizo stays with 3.5 for as long as possible. I don't plan to switch to 4th ed. Probably ever. I have almost all of the WOTC 3.5 stuff, I like it, and I have enough resources to stick with it for many, many years. I also don't care for the little bit of 4th ed stuff I have seen from the previews, and have little reason to want to buy a bunch of new rules when I like the current rules just fine. Plus, I really like the adventures Paizo makes. Since my groups go slowly, I can still run Savage Tide, Rise of the Runelords, Crimson Throne, and (hopefully) Second Darkness over the next few years without switching to 4th. The longer Paizo stays with 3.5, the longer I can keep playing my favorite game. As soon as they switch to 4th, I'll quit buying their adventures and just cobble campaigns together from old Dungeon magazines. This is very different from when DnD switched editions before. I was excited by 2nd edition when it came out, and was excited by 3rd when it was released. But 4th doesn't so much like a rules improvement, as it seems like they are trying to re-do everything for the sake of change. In other words, Golarion 3.5 forever!
A couple of you might be misunderstanding me. I don't want Paizo to cut the current amount of role-playing and plot to have more mindless combat. What I am saying is that I like the balance more-or-less where it is now. However, a couple of people seem to be suggesting to decrease the combat and add more role-playing. I like the way it is now. I think the current balance is just right. Currently, there are lots of combat encounters included for the hack-and-slashers, and there is lots of background info for the role-players, and there are lots of little forshadowing clues for the plot-lovers. I believe that its current format has just enough for everyone. I don't want change to Pathfinder. Admittedly, there have been a few flaws. I think #6 did a disservice to its city, for example. (I would go into detail but can't remember if this thread is spoiler-friendly.) The second part of #2 also seems choppy (especially after the excellent first part.) So that's the thing. I don't want changes to the format or for any radical suggestions one way or the other to be followed; I like Pathfinder the way it is. I just want the current format tightened up a bit, which I am confident will happen over time.
I'm imagining a story arc that takes just as long as an Adventure Path, but takes the characters from, say, 3rd Level all the way to 6th, rising one level every two Pathfinder episodes. It's a good, long block of the character's career, but it's not the whole thing. Just to let the guys at Paizo hear a dissenting opinion, I would absolutely NOT buy a product like this. Do you guys play daily or something? I play once a week at best, and if I had my group going through 2 Pathfinder books and level up once, that would be literally several months of play without my players leveling up. I am absolutely certain they would all get bored and quit on me. So I want to go on record and say that the current rate of advancement is just right for me, and probably for most groups that play weekly. Also, for all you people saying to cut out some of the combat and add more role-playing stuff, let me say this. Most groups I've played with typically want at least one combat per week. Since we play once a week, that means a minimum of one per session. So I need combat encounters in there. Although you "let's slow things down" guys are quite active on the boards, I think you may actually be a vocal minority. The vast majority of people I've played with want lots of combat and action. Just my opinion.
Not all companies have public beta tests. I've worked for a few major computer game companies, and they would usually beta test in-house. So the fact that you guys can't find a public beta doesn't mean that they aren't in beta. So there. Something to reassure you all. Of course, I believe the original poster is right. WOTC isn't a software company, and this is a major task. I'm not super-hopeful. But for all we know, they outsourced this, are having beta testing now, and have a great product on the way.
A good thing that has happened to me: I got a new job and moved to Austin! I'm pretty happy about that!
Christopher Wissel? You sure that's not the author of the article?
Could someone please check Dungeon #132 (the issue with Jubilex on the cover) and tell me who did the art for the critical threat? I would check myself, but I am not at home. Thanks a bunch!
After defeating Dragotha there should be very little doubt that Kyuss is going to return. True, but I see it as the PCs are the only ones who can get there in time. Not because the others can't teleport or anything, but because they need to wrap up whatever it is they are doing. This begs the question: what if the adventurers ask for help? It's understandable if the PCs say "we got it covered", but if they want an audience to persuade these high level heroes, what logic would they use to reject the offer? This is a harder question. My players are the type to say "we got it covered." If your players want to get the NPCs to take care of things for them, I am not sure what to say. Perhaps come up with other Kyuss-related threats for the NPCs to handle while the PCs do the path? I have never had players that wanted to let NPCs handle things for them. I admit I don't know. Why don't 1st-level PCs get 5th-level NPCs to handle things? This logic is there at all levels of the game, really. This diminishes the party's accomplishments though. The PCs are simply "handling" what others could do but choose not to. If it's not important enough for the other NPCs to get involved then is the fate of the world really at stake? It isn't that it isn't important enough. Look at it this way: by the time the NPCs are aware of the threat, the PCs have been persuing this for a while. They are basically specialists in the Kyuss-stopping business, especially after the Spire of Long Shadows. They know more about what is going on than anybody, having first hand experience with it. They are the best people for the job at this point. The fact that no less than the famous Tensor feels that the PCs are the most qualified to stop the cult of Kyuss should enhance their accomplishments, not diminish them. This is the main issue I have. It doesn't seem as epic if someone else will eventually show up and clean up whatever mess the PCs can't get out of. You left of the end of my paragraph where I said: Unfortunately, since Kyuss will no longer be weak and confined to the monolith after a certain point, they will be too late if they show up after that point. I plan to have the "cavalry" be too late. If the PCs can't stop it, then Kyuss is free and the Flaness gets a lot more wormy.
Please allow me to address some of these points, if a bit out of order.
And anytime after the Spire of Long Shadows, Tenser/Manzorian could begin gathering forces for the final epic showdown. I disagree here. Remember that Balakarde/Bucknard was doing this same "OMG Kyuss is coming with the Age of Worms" stuff 16 years ago and nothing happened. He went to the Spire, he went to Alhaster, and nothing really came of it except he got himself killed. Now different people are visiting Tensor a decade and a half later with the same story. Tensor can easily think that this really isn't that pressing. Should he be concerned? Yes. That is why he is helping the PC's. Should he gather forces for an epic showdown that might amount to nothing? Nope. ...and if a huge event like the Age of Worms will interfere with their goals, pursuits and lives then it makes little sense for them to ignore it. True. But until the absolute very end, there is no reason for these other epic level people to drop what they are doing to stop something that might maybe happen. After all, a high-level group of adventurers (the PCs) is already taking care of it, right? In Greyhawk, there are only a handful of epic-level good guys. There are lots of high-level baddies (Iuz, Turney, Tharizdun, Rary, Iggwilv, etc.) for them to monitor and worry about. Bear in mind that near the end, the PCs have a few artifacts and have destroyed Dragotha's phylactery. They seem to be winning, so why should the others worry about this yet? The PCs are high level, and they are handling it. I see it that once the Age of Worms has begun, the other epic level people will probably be all "oops, we should be helping with that. Our bad." I see it like this: the PCs are the first responders. They have been dealing with this the whole time, so they can go in right now. The epic NPCs need to wrap up the loose ends of whatever they are doing and will show up as soon as they can. Unfortunately, since Kyuss will no longer be weak and confined to the monolith after a certain point, they will be too late if they show up after that point. Will they arrive in time to save the world if the PCs fail? That is up to the DM. As for why the gods don't intervene, that is a better question for the Forgotten Realms people. In Greyhawk, the only gods who intervene directly are the ones who live on the prime, who tend to be either evil or insane. In the Forgotten Realms, gods pop down to the pub for drinks so I don't know why they wouldn't stop Kyuss. Maybe they're too busy telling Elminster how great he is. I don't know jack about Eberron or why the warforged dinosaurs don't just run Kyuss over with their trains. Or whatever. :)
In Greyhawk, Tensor has actually been burned by at least three high level enemies in the past. A powerful agent of Vecna in Vecna Lives, Rary and Robilar in Rary the Traitor, and Tuerny the Merciless in Return of the Eight. So I can see how he might be a little over-cautious. He might even think that the PCs coming to him for help might be an elaborate trap set up by an enemy. I can see Tensor being a little paranoid by this point.
And remember, the church of fakey is always recruitin' paladins for its holy war against the wicked banjoites. WHAT?!? Everybody knows the Church of Fakey is corrupted with evil. The paladins should join with the Banjoites!
Another thing to realize about the divination magic: if Kyuss is still Divine Rank 1 at the time a divination spell asking about him is cast, he can sense it (his Remote Sensing divine ability allows him to sense 1 mile around anyone saying his name) and just answer the questions himself. I personally would be nice and allow the caster to realize this with a Knowledge: Religion skill check. If the divination isn't cast until after the actions weakening Kyuss to Divine Rank 0, then I would allow it to go through.
I agree that it is fun to make wild guesses and be wrong. I was just worried about all the people saying "This campaign will be the perfect thing for my world and I can't wait", based on nothing but all these wild guesses. That said, it is time for my guess. I think that a naval theme is a good bet. We know it won't be about a cult this time. We also know James just did "Red Hand of Doom" about the horde of savages, so it probably isn't that again. Plus lots of people have been wanting some naval themed adventuring, so it would be popular. So my guess is that a undersea race is going to try to flood the surface so that they can claim the whole world as their own.
I hate to be the negative one, but it might not be a naval-based campaign. Everyone is getting their hopes up but all anyone has seen is the name "Savage Tide." I think we should wait until at least someone reads the preview and tells us for certain before we all start making plans. Don't count the chickens before they hatch and all that.
the only problem is that they'll miss getting elemental standards, as the Roc king won't die, and therfore Sayren-lei won't challenge them. this isn't all that important, but they're neat magic items. I disagree. Sayren-lei doesn't really want them to access the Library, so will probably come up with some excuse to challenge them.
Lizardfolk are reptilian so I personally would rule that, like reptiles, lizardfolk newborns are not helpless at birth like a human baby would be. It would be born knowing basics like how to walk and how to attack small things (like mice) for food. Otherwise, it is a humanoid and can be raised and taught things more or less like a normal child. If raised by a kender, it would probably take after its adoptive parent and be a mischief-making little thief.
The traditional way this works is that the lich re-appears at the location of the phylactery.
I actually have been thinking that this would make a good gift for Zeech. After all, he does have some members of the Ebon Triad hanged. I believe that he thinks of himself as a loyal servant of Hextor, therefore he would consider the Ebon Triad to be heretics. Lashonna would be a little peeved, but the Age of Worms is about to come to pass. She doesn't really need the Ebon Triad anymore.
How in the world has this thread gone so far with no mention of Planescape: Torment? That game was way more fun than the Baldur's Gate games. And let me also add a vote for Fallout and Fallout 2.
Both of these adventures have great villains. They weren't born evil, they're just misguided and a bit unhinged. So much better than 'Arrgh! I am the necromancer king of pirate demons!' Off subject a little bit, I would totally love to see a "Critical Threat" of the necromancer king of pirate demons. That would be awesome.
Yeah, I think that is the problem. A dragon's natural weapons don't count as magical weapons until the dragon is young adult or older. Aren't these dragons juveniles? A juvenile or younger dragon can't hurt the acidwraith at all.
All right, after reading the discussions on other boards, I think I am going to go with Stern Alia being the mother of both, an obscure, unreliable folk-tale of a lost third LN brother (a reference to Stratus from the Chainmail game), and the identity of the fathers is lost to time. Although I did come up with a story to account for the fathers last night. It basically involved an god whose name is lost that is now dead working to stop Erythnul. Erythnul and his followers found out about this and attempted to destroy this god. The unnamed god's essense split into several aspects, essentially making him be more than one being in one body. Before he split apart and dissipated, he and Stern Alia attempted to have a child with the intention of this child becoming the god of war and stopping Erythnul once and for all. Unfortunately his multiple aspects fathered separate children, causing them to be half-brothers (since each aspect was a separate being) with different takes on the waging of war.
Well, I just found an old Canonfire article (by none other than Eric Mona) that mentions Stern Alia. Apparently, one of the pregenerated characters from Forgotten Shrine of Tamoachan worshipped Stern Alia. Mr. Mona expanded this reference, making Stern Alia one of the gods imprisoned by Zagig beneath Castle Greyhawk. She was in Oeridian myth as "a once-mortal imbued with the seed that begat Hextor and Heironeous." Since most of Mr. Mona's stuff about Greyhawk has been turned into canon, I would say we have the mother. Since they are only half-brothers, this still leaves a few questions. Was the "seed that begat" them from different fathers, or was she only the mother of one of them and this "seed" was also imbued in another woman?
Do any of the Greyhawk experts here know the parents of Hextor and Heironeous? I know they are half-brothers and originally Oeridian, but don't even know if they have the same mother or the same father. My group is about to start asking about this, and I have no idea what the answers are.
My group is just finishing up with 3FoE. They are having a lot of fun, although they are getting tired of the dungeon crawling. The outdoor battle at Blackwall Keep will be just the thing they need.
The group could use the money to start up a mortuary business/guild in Diamond Lake. So far they've pretty much been taking care of the graveyard for free, and can use their uncontested monopoly into a money-making business. I like this idea, because it meshes easily with some ideas I had. This gives the cult a permanent and respectable presence in town, and it gives them a building that can double as a chapel, and it would put the gold back into the Diamond Lake economy because they have to buy supplies and hire laborers. Good idea, Big Jake. Anyone else got some ideas?
750 gold makes them rich? they should take lessons from their counterparts in cauldron and in Alhaster. It makes them rich if you keep it in perspective. This is a small cult in a poor mining town. Not a major church in a big city.
My group has a warmage follower of Wee Jas, and are still knocking around Diamond Lake. They recently sold 750 gold worth of looted equipment (nearly all of the town's available gold), and then took their money and got the Cult of the Green Lady (the Wee Jas church) to make them a bunch of cure light wounds potions. So my question is: what exactly would happen now that the "small" Cult of the Green Lady has a sizable amount of gold? I have a few ideas, but would like a little input from you guys. Thanks!
Could you give us a review, then? How is the issue?
You make a good point SirMarcus, in that you don't my DM style nor how it might influence the party's survivablilty. But I was, in fact, trying to reassure DM's reading all the horror stories about TPKs and seeing comparisons to the Tomb of Horrors that the adventure, although hard, is not an Insta-kill Dungeon meant to kill everyone. A party can get through it. I think the adventure is one of the most fun I have run the party through in a while, and it would be a shame to scare DMs away from it by giving the false impression that it is designed to be a party killer. More importantly, my players had fun as well, and they are all looking forward to the entire campaign.
What with all the stories of death and carnage, I thought I would like to mention that my group just finished the Whispering Cairn without a character death! Hooray for them. Admitedly, every character has gone into the negatives at some point. In fact, two players have gone down to -9 before getting their healing in the same fight. But they made it through alive. My players are:
They are all experienced players, so they have pretty good teamwork. I just thought I would come on and counter all the "dead party" comments with some positivity, and point out to people who haven't started the campaing yet that it is, in fact, survivable.
Let's see . . . the PCs are in direct competition with Allustan, then they go to the Free City and when they get back their business competitor just 'happens' to have gone missing? A suspicious and corrupt person might think they hired someone to 'take care' of Allustan. Since Allustan's brother happens to be the suspicious and corrupt Mayor who controls the sheriff, I can imagine that the PCs might want to make sure that Allustan is found safe and sound.
Do you mean the SRD? It has all the spells, monsters, classes, etc., so I assume you mean that. It can be found here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35
(A bunch of stuff explaining that everything will be all right.) Thank you James! I was basing the CR off of the example sorcerer in the Monster Manual. I also forgot that the conjuration spells aren't stopped by spell resistance. One of my players is playing a warmage and thus doesn't really get buffs. I was afraid he would be helpless. I may remind him about the conjuration spells if he forgets, too. I am just worried that if I play Zyrxog intelligently (as I should), then all my poor players will have their characters die. I will go ahead and keep him as he is, though. The tough fights are the ones the players tend to remember and appreciate.
You are mistaken. Mind Flayers have a Spell Resistance of 25, and they get to add their number of class levels to their SR. So their SR is very high. Zyrxog has an SR 32.
On a further note, does making him a 3rd level sorcerer weaken him too much? That puts his CR at 11 where it belongs, but he might not have enough defenses if I do that, because he only has two minions to protect him. He still needs to be a threat. Any suggestions are welcome.
In the MM, the example mindflayer with 9 levels of sorcerer is a CR 17. So sorcerer levels are considered "playing to its strengths" and added one-to-one to its CR, according to the MM itself. EDIT: Even barring that, see my other concerns. Class levels add to a mind flayer's CR, making this particular mind flayer all but immune to spells from any caster below level 12. Melee attacks are negated, and if you take the recommended strategy of suggesting that the fighters throw their bows in the water, and you have an undefeatable enemy for the levels for which the adventure is intended.
Is Zyrxog's CR wrong? Because a mind flayer is a CR 8 creature, and Zyrxog has 7 levels of sorcerer, shouldn't the CR for him be 15 instead of only 11? And after adding the other creatures as well as the black column, shouldn't that make the final encounter be EL 16 or so? Isn't that a wee bit high for a party that is expected to be about level 8? I was just looking at the encounter last night, and realized that Zyrxog should be able to wipe out the party easily. He has a CR of 32(!) which means an 8th level wizard cannont overcome it. Even with greater spell penetration, he would have to roll a 20. Plus, he is levitating 40 feet off the ground, which neutralizes any melee attacks against him. Add the other monsters in the room and it seems to be a TPK waiting to happen. So am I overlooking something which gives the party an advantage? Or is the encounter just way, way too hard?
I am in Raleigh, NC and got it at Barnes & Noble on the 9th.
I knew what Laeknir was asking, so you aren't the only one. I didn't remember enough of my college psych course to remember the answer, though.
Although I think this is an interesting take, I think you need to involve the Hextor temple as well. They would be the most appreciative of a Heironean priest's death. I am at work and can't look at the adventure, or I would give a few ideas of my own.
As far as the "big picture" goes, I would like to remind you all that the Forces of Law are indeed trying to give warning. If you recall, St. Cuthbert has been giving his priest in town visions of an upcoming crawling apocalypse that will bring darkness. And the priest has been preaching about the upcoming doom and gloom from his pulpit for a while. So the town is getting plenty of fair warning about the Age of Worms. It is just that the right people aren't really paying attention. Not until the PCs intervene, anyway.
The site says the latest issue was shipped to subscribers on July 19. Since that was last week, people should be getting it soon. So does anyone have it? Any comments on part 3 of the Age of Worms?
By that point maybe he would be able to use some of Kyuss's own minions against him. Just because Kyuss created the type of undead doesn't mean he has complete control over every one of them. True enough. I was just thowing the idea out there. Consider that the only way to make a Spawn of Kyuss is by using the worms that came from an existing one. Which means that every spawn in existence can be directly traced back to one made by Kyuss himself. Although this doesn't mean Kyuss has complete control of every one, I can certainly see a DM giving Kyuss a great deal of influence over them.
I would allow it when he has a caster level of 16 and can cast the spell. You said this will be when the character gets to 14th character level, right? By the time the Age of Worms gets him to that point, I predict he will have changed his mind about creating one. Bear in mind that the campaign will probably have the characters going up against some plans of Kyuss himself. This may well interfere with the character's ability to control any Spawn of Kyuss that he creates.
That is a pretty good adventure. I like the way it can be spread out over several levels. I might steal your idea and integrate it into my AoW campaign too. Especially if the players need a little extra experience.
That was cold-hearted!
This is pretty interesting, but why is the chapter on Pelor using 2nd edition rules? That struck me as odd. I realize that a lot of the Canonfire people are old-timers, but you might be able to get more of the newer, younger players interested if you updated your rules set. Most of the new guys don't even know what THAC0 is, let alone want to figure the dang thing out.
I agree. The way Cosmo always has scantily clad, big breasted women on the cover is just senseless titillation. Good thing neither Dungeon nor Dragon magazine ever do that! Oh, wait...
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