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DunbarexodusIII wrote:

The kineticist is an idea that has never been tried before. Class balance was always tricky given that magic has such overwealming potential. The Kineticist is an attempt to balance impressive at will abilities by providing direct and punishing consequences for "improving" their basic abilities. The concept of pay to use abilities is rather new. It was obviously influenced by the Warlock from D&D 3.5 However unlike the Kineticist, the Warlock didn't have any consequences of ability use. Their abilities were free, the rational was that they had an extremely limited # of abilities to draw upon.

Here the Kineticist has virtually the same limited ability options, the same options to improve/modify their abilities and the same damage potential. Where this starts to get confusing is in how the penalties are to be interpreted. There are many abilities that mitigate the Burn damage.

Kineticists pay 0 burn for basic blasts and through normally acquired means can reduce infusion burn costs " infusion specialization" by up to 6 at LV20. this is not including the "gather power" ability that allows her to ignore the first 1-3 burn based on the time spent gathering. They can also "store" unused burn for later by way of placing them in her "internal buffer" another 1-3 points. Thus giving her 1-3 additional free points of burn available to her the next day.

Using these abilties a kineticist can and should have a virtually unlimited repatoire of damaging and powerful blasts that cost nothing. Just like the Warlock. Only twice as powerful.

Its only really when attempting to really go big that Burn becomes limited. Maxing out at 6 Burn per round not with standing the above mentioned methods of reduction, it is conceivable that a pyro kineticist at 19th level could perform a:(Feel free to do the math)

Kinetic Blast
Blue flame 2(reduced to 0 burn) composite specialization and internal buffer
Form Explosion 4(reduced to 0 burn) infusion specialization
Doubled ( 4 Burn META gained at lv 17)...

While all of this is true, a kineticist using infusions gives the enemy saving throws, one for substance, one for form, and the ability is then subject to SR and energy resistance if the blast is energy based, so while yes this is a huge burst, if they make their saves then the Kineticist just used 6 burn on an attempted nova that went deeply sideways, especially if they fail the caster level check for SR.

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Found an explicit statement by Mark, I’ll be showing it to my DM next Thursday, thanks guys

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Melkiador wrote:

There's a fair chance you could draw a quote from Mark Seifter, the main designer of the class. If that doesn't sway your GM, then probably nothing will.

Personally, I think it's already super clear that you can get iteratives. You might could also look to how it works in the Kingmaker videogame for evidence, but that kind of info isn't always readily available.

I’ve been trying really hard to find a post where he explicitly states this but haven’t had a lot of luck, lots of places where he implies it, but apparently that’s not good enough to counter “I don’t like it so it doesn’t work”

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Thanks, I needed some examples to show of ways other classes can get these numbers in but I’m not used to high output classes so I don’t do get the numbers down well for some of them.

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I’ve made these arguments and more in favour of my ruling, but he says “it’s too much damage to be allowed to work that way, no other class at 9th level can make iterative attacks at 10d6 damage in 1 round.” (Was using a composite blast)

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My DM and I are at loggerheads over this Infusion, he insists that as per its wording

You form a weapon using your kinetic abilities. You create a non-reach, light or one-handed weapon in your hand formed of pure energy or elemental matter. (If you're a telekineticist, you instead transfer the power of your kinetic blast to any object held in one hand.) The kinetic blade's shape is purely cosmetic and doesn't affect the damage dice, critical threat range, or critical multiplier of the kinetic blade, nor does it grant the kinetic blade any weapon special features. The object held by a telekineticist for this form infusion doesn't prevent her from using gather power.

You can use this form infusion once as part of an attack action, a charge action, or a full-attack action in order to make melee attacks with your kinetic blade. Since it's part of another action (and isn't an action itself), using this wild talent doesn't provoke any additional attacks of opportunity. The kinetic blade deals your kinetic blast damage on each hit (applying any modifiers to your kinetic blast's damage as normal, but not your Strength modifier). The blade disappears at the end of your turn. The weapon deals the same damage type that your kinetic blast deals, and it interacts with Armor Class and spell resistance as normal for a blast of its type. Even if a telekineticist uses this power on a magic weapon or another unusual object, the attack doesn't use any of the magic weapon's bonuses or effects and simply deals the telekineticist's blast damage. The kinetic blade doesn't add the damage bonus from elemental overflow.

He insists that It does not work with an iterative attack due to “once as part of and action” causing it to only work on one attack, no matter how many you can make. I need some kind of definitive answer to show him on this issue.

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Mark, not sure if this is still an active thread or even where to ask this otherwise, does the Kineticist, when using Kinetic blade, deal full kinetic blast damage, including composite blast damage, on all iterative attacks used as part of a full attack action. Or is the blade only valid on a single attack in the action