Yeah, and it was not fun seeing that awesome damage roll get reversed with a single, normal roll. I would think that hitting it that hard would have taken the gun out for good unless the pilot tried to soak it.
In all honesty, this is starting to turn into a slugfest again. Those are just grueling and no fun over PbP. I know that you said you need three people, but this has turned into a chore. I get it that testing isn't fun all the time, but this is supposed to be a game, and games are supposed to be fun. This is most definitely not fun for me any more and hasn't been for a while.
Okay, the banter has been fun, but definitely not the thing we're supposed to be figuring out.
Kara succeeded on her check, so that's a +2 to gunner, right?
Belter Blackjack frowns. He isn't even cursing anymore. Not seeing any point in continuing to hammer away at the cruiser, he rushes to the cockpit and plops down into the copilot's seat.
"Son, you're a terrible pilot," he tells Erebasto before trying to help him get more speed out of the ship.
Piloting (Aid):1d6 ⇒ 21d6 ⇒ 3
Changed my mind.
Belter gives crippliing the cruiser one last shot before rushing to the cockpit to help their pilot. He sights up the bridge again and opens fire.
I don't think it is, actually. How many pilots are not going to take Ace? It's something that you need to account for.
Savage Worlds, as a system, is designed so that the PCs are larger than life, but still mortal. Mooks can get lucky and down a PC. In this case, we've been lucky enough to avoid that since we could have failed those soak rolls instead of succeeding. Mooks are also supposed to be easy to take out in droves, it's the Wildcards that are the dangerous ones.
So, you've proven that mooks die in droves and aren't a threat beyond the drain on resources and that two evenly matched Wildcards will fight to a stalemate. But this is all in a straight out brawl which isn't that interesting without the options to support a variety of tactics and ways to turn the tables.
To that end, change the parameters. The real threat isn't getting damaged by the TIEs, it's that they'll get a good read on the ship and radio ahead to have a cruiser waiting at the next port. The real threat isn't getting blown to bits by the pirate corvette, it's getting boxed in or disabled and being captured. The real threat from that scout isn't that it'll attack you, but that it'll radio the base and raise the alert that something is up. In the same vein, the PCs aren't there to blow up enemy fighters, but to make it to their next port of call and offload their contraband to get paid and stave off the loan sharks. They are trying to make an honest living as merchants and their insurance premiums will go up if they lose this shipment to pirates. They are trying to sneak in and get a commando team aboard the research station to steal the plans for the latest prototypes that the Empire is developing.
I think what's throwing you off is the lack of clear goals and tactical options beyond blow them out of space. This isn't about options for the different positions, this is solely about the options the PCs and the NPCs have as a whole outside of the mechanics. There's no story, just mindless, mind-numbing violence. That's all these three or four exercises have been.
Belter curses as the ship rocks from the hits. He lines up the TIE he'd damaged and was looking a little shaky. Then walks his fire into another of the TIEs
Gunner (Dual Link, MAP) v. TIE #5:1d8 + 1 - 2 ⇒ (6) + 1 - 2 = 51d6 + 1 - 2 ⇒ (5) + 1 - 2 = 4*5* Success! Damage:4d10 + 2 ⇒ (5, 9, 5, 3) + 2 = 24*24* A hit, but I think that only shakes him.
Gunner (Dual Link, MAP) v. TIE #2:1d8 + 1 - 2 ⇒ (7) + 1 - 2 = 61d6 + 1 - 2 ⇒ (1) + 1 - 2 = 0*6* Success! Damage:4d10 + 2 ⇒ (5, 1, 5, 3) + 2 = 16*16* Just a scratch on the paint.
Well, it seems I'm doing a lot better today than I thought I would be. Still stings a little, but not nearly as much as before. Assuming things continue this way, I should be good.
Damage:4d10 + 2 + 1d6 ⇒ (6, 8, 10, 6) + 2 + (6) = 38*38* That's a hit and 4 raises, I think. Pretty sure that TIE is toast. ACES!:1d10 + 1d6 + 38 ⇒ (6) + (5) + 38 = 49 Crap for got that wasn't a raise on the gunner roll. Actual Damage:49 - 11 = 38
Okay, I'm home now and have a proper keyboard to type on!
So, the problem with realistic portrayals of space is that they are rather boring tactically. Most of the combat in Savage Worlds is centered on smaller units, maybe a platoon at most. There are mass combat rules, but those don't apply here. The challenge is to make combat interesting. Realistically speaking, ship to ship combat in space is a numbers game. The side that can dish out the damage the quickest is the one that wins. This makes for incredibly boring tactical play, but can make for more interesting strategic play.
That said, Savage Worlds is a very cinematically styled game. The PCs are tougher than your average dude and can walk away from an explosion with some scuff marks on their clothes. This leads to what I was saying earlier, you're wanting, it seems, something that is incompatible with the rules. Savage Worlds is a highly abstract system compared to other systems out there. You're not going to get a space combat simulator with any kind of realistic fidelity out of it. So, I say embrace the chaos. Use the PC's resilience as an excuse to throw waves of TIEs after them. They're mooks. They're supposed to be squishy, and occasionally one will get lucky. So what if the Millenium Falcon can mow through a flight of TIEs with ease? It's a Wild Card! It's a bigger, badder, more suped up version of anything like it in space! The only challenge for a Wild Card is another Wild Card, but you don't have them meet in the deep vacuum, because that's not where the cinematic action is. You race through megastructures trading blows and creating obstacles from whatever's handy. The TIEs are too weak? Then send in Baron von K~#&ss and his elite wingmen or the Bounty Hunter Shar Url, a dangerous doppleganger from Mystar IV and her dangerous crew aboard the Umber Hulk, a vessel feared throughout the spacelanes.
I went a little over the top there, but that's my point. Savage Worlds, I feel, is a system that works well with that kind of mindset. Let the players do crazy and awesome things with it. Let them be the stars. If you want to make a ship dangerous, don't give everyone in the crew wild card status, up their skills and let the pilot and maybe one other have that status and give them a pool of bennies to us collectively, since their are members of a wildcard ship. Force the players to make hard choices by having your gunner with a d12 pick off critical systems and force the players to choose between shielding the vitals and firing back.
I think part of the problem is that you want to see if the system is balanced, but it also needs to be fun, or it's not worth playing. Instead of worrying about balance, thing about what would be fun and work from there. Look beyond the obvious. For example, what about the gunner herding the other ship into the main gun's sights? What about Ops/sensors flaring the emitters to blind their sensors for a moment and going dark to hide? What if engineering cracked up the power on the engines to have them act as a short range DEW? What if comms sends a virus to infect their network? What if Comms tries to distract them with the unsexy?
I'll admit, being a gunner is kind of a one trick pony, but I think there's more there than is obvious at first glance. I think that things could be more fun by embracing the nature of the system and letting the PCs have lucky shots and bad days by not capping wounds. Sometimes you get wrecked by a golden BB. If that happens, give the PCs a chance to survive and make it back to port. If the PCs one-shot the mini-boss, or the final boss, let them celebrate and then turn the notoriety that they get against them. Space combat is part of the system, and when you're building it, treat it as such. Events and actions in one part of the game have knock on effects on other parts. Some social encounter could affect a space combat encounter and vise-versa.
All of this to say, take a step back, look at what's fun for the players, and then, once you have the bones of a fun system, worry about balancing things out. But even then, don't worry if the PCs are tough. that just means you can through tougher enemies at them.
I think Atlas (Kara) hit the nail on the head. We're trying to hash out a system that is fun for everyone no matter what role they chose to play. The issue is that there is a lack of tactical decisions, especially for the gunner. I can chose to shot one gun or both guns. I can aim at a specific part of the ship, or I can aim at the ship and have a better chance of hitting. But that's it when it's one on one and we're in a vacuum. Now, if you put us in a crowded space port, I can have those options, or I can try to blast the moorings of the huge tanker we just passed and send it drifting into the other ship's lane. If we're in an asteroid belt, I can blast some space rocks apart in an attempt to over whelm their shields with debris strikes.
Then there's the goal. Their goal and our goal. So far, it seems like there's a gratuitous battle happening for no reason. The ships are just hammering away at each other for no reason. Are we trying to get away? Are we baiting them into a trap? Are we chasing them. Are they chasing us? Are they a patrol vessel trying to board us for customs, or are they pirates here to steal our cargo?
My point is that there's three parts to this and you seem to be completely ignoring two of them. I think that's part of the problem is that there's only one option, kill the other guy, and the other guy is so evenly matched and the environment so sterile that it's more about who's lucky than any tactical consideration. Aiming for parts of a ship lowers the odds more than firing twice, and firing twice ups your odds of scoring a hit per round. There's no reason to, as a gunner, do anything different. It's boring and and there's only so many ways I can describe a crotchety space cowboy pulling a trigger on a joystick.
I guess that's my thing, it's not just about mechanical options, but there has to be narrative options or paths that could lead to the outcome we want more quickly even if it is riskier.
I agree. If there was something to do besides just wail on the other guy, then maybe this would be a more interesting test, but at the moment, you could just figure out the most optimal course of action for each station and run a script.
There's no interesting tactical choices to make other than do I go one shot, two, or do I aim at the weak spot.
I think the test itself may be flawed in this case.
"I've heard the stuff ya listen to. Sounds like a bunch of drunken dwarves! I don't need some wet behind the ears elf tellin' me how to shoot! Yer aim's probably as lousy as your taste in music!"
Belter, now in fine, rantin' form, starts to spread the love.
"Okay, Cornball! How's about you fly the ship, flyboy, while I keep tryin' ta kill 'em dead!"
He curses as his first shot goes wide.
"Oh hell! Now lookit what you done made me do! Maybe we otta enter in the demolition derby with them fine pilotin' skills! Guberment money well spent right there's I tells ya! Our tax dollars at work, my pasty white ass!"
"Dadgumit, woman! It's called 'mystique!' And tha ladies dig it," Belter shouts back, his ranting audible thoughout the ship without the intercom. "Tell me, are the ear just for show, or do you actually like that crap band?"
Fun fact: I've worked on a website for a band agency that specializes in wedding and party bands. Some of the names are pretty chuckleworthy. My favorite was Dr. Zarr's Funkmonster. There was also a Beatle's tribute band called 1964 and a few others that made me go "What the heck?"
Taking advantage of Kara's lock, Belter Blackjack swivels the guns about to line up on the ship and hammer away at it. Beams of searing energy spew forth and strike the ship, though not doing as much as Erebasto's shot.
"Great job Cornball! Now keep on 'em! can't let these Feddy Toadies get the better o' us!"
I think another issue is that we're evenly matched, and there's not really anything we can do other than try hammering them into wreckage to shake them. The tactical equation is pretty simple. It mainly comes down to luck and resources. There's no obstacles for either of us to avoid or make use of. There's no way to change the environment to give them a disadvantage or force them to break off.
The biggest issue is that it feels like this is dragging on forever and it's getting dull, for me anyway. I think we have enough to see that having two identical ships duke it out isn't really that interesting. We could start making tweaks, but I don't know how useful that would be for testing. I think may resetting things and making the tweaks would be a better test so we're comparing apples to apples, not trying to rebuild the apples after they've been turned into apple salad.
