Balthichou's page

The ability to cast spells in medium armors is by itself pretty strong. We're talking about something the Magus, THE guy who is supposed to be a battle-wizard, only get at level 7. And they get it at level 1, along with tower shield proficiency. A proficiency that usually goes hand-in-hand with heavy armors. And even then, a proficiency that only the Fighter and Warrior (NPC class) get.

Sounds like this is more about a dream-class than anything else. That's just a Magus letting go of Spell Combat and the Arcane Pool to get the full wizard list, better armor proficiencies from the get go and a bit more stuff from level 1 onward. That's a dream class if I've ever seen one. Also, you get to replace both Perception and Athletics (I think you mean Climb and Swim) with a single Profession Skill. Since Perception would have been maxed-out anyway for any soldier, that's just free ranks in Climb and Swim). Right.

And I'm still convinced that the low level of those characters mean that you'll ever see a few level 1 spells a day. 10 minutes of Enlarge per day isn't going to make or break a battle, especially when this deprives you of 2 AC ; and again, you're paying exponentially more money for those level 3 über-maguses than just level 1 warriors who will outnumber them 10-to-1. Your über-maguses also need to be older, as per the starting age rules : this would certainly classify as a "trained" class, meaning that for humans, you're taking an older part of the population : less soldier available than for Warriors (who would certainly count as self-taught, like the fighter). And no matter how high your AC, if 20 guys attack you, you'll averagely get hit at least once, even if you have a 30-something AC.

Your average soldier would be 3-4 years older than the standard Warrior. Losing one means you lose all that training and invested money. So you have to spend more to protect them, thinning your budget even more. Meanwhile, a few Bards can support cannon fodder troops by making them more dangerous, and Clerics can Channel Energy your own wounded but stabilized troops to get them back up and kicking. I think restoring 4-5 HP to all allies in range (which, if they are prefectly stacked around the cleric, is around 100 guys) three times per day is better than being able to cast Enlarge on yourself for 10 minutes a day.

We're talking about Pathfinder here. In Pathfinder, a level 3 Fighter or Cavalier "trained from birth" will get his buttplate handed to him by 10 level 1 Warriors (that's right, the NPC class), unless you kit him out with platemail and a heavy shield, at which point you're spending 2k gold on a single man. More Warriors on my side. You're going to be surrounded, flanked, and are only going to be able to kill one per turn at most (and with a low TH score of +5 or +6, you're not even going to be hitting an AC 14 each turn).

If you want to win cheaply, on a large scale, following the Pathfinder rules, you're better off having 3 level 1 characters than 1 level 3 character.

Also, remember that the crossbow was outlawed on the battlefield by the church because any peasant could kill a knight with a single bolt. Simple weapons, easy to use, deadly and not too expensive. In Pathfinder, "trained warriors" will fear the rain of crossbow bolts. Western feudal age had very little professional national army. Mercenary bands and levies is what was used, until 17th century. A lot of the Pathfinder settings are not on a 17th century tech level, otherwiser firearms would be far more prevalent.

You still can't have full-spellcasting medium-BAB high hit dice in medium armor on a single class. So the "super magic soldier class" can't exist because Bloodragers and Magus already do this. Now if you want an army of Maguses (Magis ?) that's another topic, and it's going to be expensive. If you want 3rd level spells and medium armor that's a 7th level Magus.

It moves slowly, leaves the feet exposed when it does move, can't fire out without a crack that might let some fire in, etc.

If we go by the rules, I'm pretty sure soldiers can use a move action then a standard action to plant the shield. unless you have a readied action to attack when they move. If you have a unit on two lines with crossbows and tower shields, you could have the unit move 30ft forward, the second line firing crossbows over the shoulder of the shield bearers, and the first line planting shields.

Even if you have readied actions to shoot at them, or even throw fireballs (again, 3rd level spell, so you need to have level 5 full casters), the first line will provide soft cover to the crossbow bearers, improving their resilience. Meat shields wielding tower shields.

Basically, the class you want is the Arcane Duelist archetype for the bard. You can't just go creating a class that has 6th level spellcasting in medium armor from the wizard spell list, that's just outshadowing the Magus. And even then, sweet sweet Fireballs come at level 7. So the army of 1st-2nd-3rd level characters won't throw fireballs around, you'll have nothing but cantrips and 3 1st-level spells a day. That's quite cheap. Unless, again, you have them be full-casters from the wizard spell-list in medium armor with medium or higher BAB to go with that. In which case the class is absolutely unbalanced.

On my side, I'm still convinced that an army of man-at-arms level 1 and 2 outnumbering those super-PCs by 16-to-1 will still be cheaper and more efficient. I have 30 000 gold to spend ? I'm going to hire and outfit 500 man-at-arms with leather armor, crossbows, shields and spears and pit them against your 30 soldiers. I should have enough gold left to have supplies too.

EDIT : ran a quick calculation, 30k gold allows to hire, pay and feed 500 man-at-arms level 1-3 for 1 month and kit them out with leather armor, bucklers and shortspears. You then still have 2k750 gold left, that you can use to buy crossbows and the like, siege weapons, or hire specialists in the form of mercenary bands (providing magic for instance). Outnumber 16-to-1, and light armor allows me to move my army fast while medium armor half-caster half-BAB would be stuck on 20ft of movement and slow paced travel.

And conscription existed during the middle ages, it was called feudal levies. Professional army is something quite modern; for instance, French army was created in 1420, and was very small (it was mostly the King's personal army). The first real army in France was created in 1652. Most Pathfinder-style feudal countries aren't that modern.

And if you really want to play the modern game, WW1 and WW2, being large-scale war, mostly had conscription. Mind you, when they have an army coming the way of their family, farmers are quite willing to fight on the battlefield.

What strikes me in this thread is the will some have, to turn the Pathfinder heroic-fantasy battlefield into a modern-day zone-of-war skirmish.

The value of a level 3-5 PC Class character is huge on the battlefield. It also costs a ton of money. As per the rules, a trained hireling costs 3 silver a day. Since they're expendable, you can kit them out with cheap equipment : a shortspear, a buckler, leather armor and maybe a light crossbow. This will come out as let's say a 50 gold value for a low AC, low damage soldier : we're looking at AC 12 or 13, around ten hit points, and a +2 or +3 1d8-damage attack.

Now what amount of coin would a fully kitted-out level 3 character cost ? If you have trained them, you don't want to lose them, which means you kit them out with the best gear around : breastplate (or even more), a costy weapon, maybe even a shield. Don't forget the spellbook if he's a prepared spellcaster. You're getting in the 500 golds for a single fighter who will be outnumbered 10 to 1. He may be able to take out one or two footsoldiers, but you just don't get enough bang for your buck. And let's not even get to scrolls, potions and wands. I'll gladly field 100 militiamen against 10 of your level 3 powerhouses, even if they can get webbed 10 times (which actually will provide me with cover), provided they fail their Reflex saves.

Magis is useful in skirmishes, which is most of the combat we usually do when we play Pathfinder. 3 spells a day just doesn't cut it if the battle lasts for more than 3 minutes. Heck, even 10 minutes of battle is a hundred rounds, which will outlast most of the buffs or debuffs "magic soldiers" will be able to throw.

And if you want a character to be a full BAB fighter with enough spellslots to last an hour of fighting, either you need extremely high level characters (which will be extremely costy), or you need a class that's just going to be straight up better than anything else. Magus and Bloodragers already do magic fighting. Fireball is a 3rd level spell too, so we're looking at (at minima) 5th level characters. Just how expensive is this army supposed to be ? If they get outnumbered 30 to 1, I don't see the point in that "elite" force which will be forced to have a glaring weakness somewhere to balance it out. Since they already have full spellcasting and seemingly all armors and weapons as well as max BAB, I trust this class will have a weak point somewhere. A d2 hitdice maybe ?

Lastly, if I know the enemy is nothing but spellcaster, rest assured that I will throw suicide squads against their encampment to prevent them to rest. Remember, anything else but resting for 8 hours interrupts rest, by the rules. RAW, even talking prevents you from regaining your spells. Having an entire army of spellcasters just doesn't give you enough for the price you pay.

If you really want to up your game on the battlefield, consider kitting out your soldiers with alchemical items. A thunderstone costs 30 gold, and having your frontline throw those in the fray can give you a pretty good "concussion grenade" kind of attack. It is easy to use, and even the dumbest militian can use it. And if your soldiers get killed before using them, the rest of your army can certainly salvage the thunderstones and use them. A dead spellcaster is a waste of spellslots.

Now I think it's not unreal to imagine any serious military force (and by that I mean a country) either doing selective breeding to get sorcerers, or having some soldiers go throught ritual to "awaken" their dormant bloodlines... We do have a "human" sorcerer bloodline in the form of the Imperious bloodline after all.

Sorry, had a crapload of work. I'll do my character asap ! He should be ready in a few days.

Northwest of Taol-Kaer... Next to the Gwydre border ?

I may make a vector then, this could be much fun.

I was thinking of playing a Varigal, maybe. The kind of "happy fellow on the road", but at the same time : "cross me once and i'll make sure you wake up with a smile going ear-to-ear — through your throat".

*Raise hand*

I can back out if any one wants to join, I'll be the least at-ease with the system, since English isn't my mother language.

I haven't read any of the scenarios, though I played through the Loch Varn one.

Hi everyone !

French Esteren player here, and first time on Play-by-Post. I guess there is no more room here as a player ?

(I can speak / write English, don't worry guys :3 )

A bit of both should do the trick, yes. Religion for odd levels, Plane for even ones !

Thank you ! I think I'lle be going with Religion. Seems logical.

Hello everyone !

First time posting here, though I have been lurking here for a long time. I come here seeking a bit of advice.

I'm creating a character with a Monk/Barbarian build, using the Martial Artist and Savage Barbarian archetypes. I know it's not the most optimized thing to do, but I've not come here seeking advice on mechanics.

I've been wondering how I could roleplay the character. I've decided to make him a True Neutral, someone who has understood the existence of forces over Golarion and people inhabiting it. He knows about the very notion of alignment, and has decided to balance his mindless rage with a strict physical and mental discipline, thus making him a True Neutral.

Yet, I don't know what Knowledge skill I should invest in to show what he knows about the notion of alignment. Is it Arcana ? Planes ? Religion ? I've been scratching my head over this problem for a few days now, and have not yet come to an answer.

What does the Advice Board think of it ?