Autumn Longbriar's page

Hey, I appreciate the invitation to join this game. At this point, life circumstances mean I'm focusing most on my most active games.

Please mark me as inactive, and the best of luck to yall.

Perception: 1d20 + 6 ⇒ (18) + 6 = 24

Autumn nods to Bam's suggestion.

The standard traditions aren't really "defaults" or anchor choices, they're pretty much there to demonstrate direct translations of the PF1 standard classes. Otherwise the rules start up top with some simple choices to make. One way or another you have to put together a casting style for the character, and I opted not to take a PF1 standard translation. It's not overpowered because I used their prescribed boons and drawbacks framework.

100% agreed! You did exactly what the designers intended: you looked at the sample traditions and the rules for building your own tradition, and you built one that suited your character. (And it's legit for a DM to allow whatever they want, including allowing custom traditions for Spheres of Power but not for Spheres of Might and/or Spheres of Guile–the Spheres systems all lean into DM authority–but fundamentally, from a design perspective, it's all the same.)

Hey, thanks. Are those the only 2 problems, right now? If so, I think I can definitely help.

Re #1, I do have a copy of the PDF. I'll reach out to share with you personally. (And I agree with you, the Wiki makes some unintuitive/annoying choices...and the search is absolutely broken.) FYI, what I do to search the wiki I have a fave Google trick I use. Just go type into Google: "site:[URL] [search term(s)]", e.g. "site:http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com trade tradition".

Re #2, I'm happy to revise my documentation on my sheet. I hope you'll believe me that I tried to make it clear...but clearly I missed the mark. :-/ I also think–honestly–learning SoG is a bear, no matter what; I think it's a good system once you know it...but it's VERY complex. Like I said, if you'd like me to cut it, I'll totally understand. And if you think you're maybe fine with keeping it, let me know if you'd like me to answer Qs for you live. I'm happy to hop on Discord voice chat at a time that's mutually good. Before I revise my sheet though, I'd like to know if you have additional concerns. If so, I'll try to change those at the same time since that'll be more efficient for everyone.

One specific misunderstanding I can clear up now: it seems like when I wrote the word "trade", you thought that was me saying "I'm trading something for this". Is that right? If so...I can totally see that in hindsight, but it didn't occur to me. If you look at the rules for selecting one's trade tradition, one is required to select (4) "trade talents" from the vocation sphere. You'll see that Vocation has some talents that aren't "trade" talents and some that are. I called out (or tried to) which were the trade talents I selected, versus the base spheres (of which an adroit tradition gets two).

Another question you mentioned that I can answer for you: many talents grant skill leverage. For example, body control says "Skill Leverage: You unlock skill leverage with the Acrobatics and Escape Artist skills." Spheres (and talents within spheres) are the main ways to get skill leverage. In my case, I get skill leverage from the base Body Control and Performance spheres.

Re casting traditions, it may be worth you giving your book another look. The concept of traditions has *evolved* from the Original to the Ultimate rules, but you can read both the old and new version on the casting traditions page. The wiki has two tab labeled "Ultimate" and "Original" (listed right under the ToC). If you click on Original, it shows the original Casting Traditions language.

BTW, when I asked on the DDS Discord about guidance re: whether or not to allow players to design/propose a trade tradition, the very first Q was someone asking "Does your group use Spheres of Might or Spheres of Power? If so, how does it handle Martial Traditions or Casting Traditions?" and then, hearing what Sebastian's tradition is, saying, "That seems like a custom tradition, I think. So it makes sense you'd just allow custom martial and trade traditions to me
It doesn't make a significant difference in power level anyway". (Three other people weighed in as well, and all said more-or-less the same thing.) That doesn't mean you shouldn't make your own decision here; you're the DM...but if you're making it because you don't think of Casting Traditions and Trade Traditions in the same way, you've definitely got a minority opinion within the Spheres community. (One active member of the community points out "they say they are sample traditions, after all".)

Thanks, I appreciate the feedback.

I 100% agree that Autumn is a lot to figure out, especially if one's not well versed with Spheres of Might (SoM) and Spheres of Guile (SoG). (While the Canny Scoundrel (SoM) and Grifter (SoG) archetypes were explicitly designed to work together, it means learning two new systems, which definitely increases complexity...and honestly SoG in particular is a complex system to learn.)

So she's definitely complex to understand. That's problem #1.

It's possible that she's also a bit more powerful than the other party martials, which seems like problem #2, maybe?

I'll take a quick (and I think relevant) aside to say that referring to creating a tradition as homebrew or going beyond the material as written is a misunderstanding of the system (and not related to either of those two problems). Sebastian actually *also* designed his own casting tradition–Somatic Casting x2 + Verbal + INT-based casting is NOT one of the standard traditions or even the sample custom casting traditions–but that's fine; it's not overpowered and I don't know of any DM who uses spheres who would bat an eye at PaleDim creating a custom casting tradition for Sebastian...because the spheres system gives clear rules for creating them, and assumes most players will. (Some DMs make all the casting traditions in their world themselves, perhaps because they're creating a world with unique lore tied to how magic works there...but that's the minority, in my experience, and from what I see in the Spheres Discord server.) Creating ones own traditions is so normal in Spheres that PaleDim didn't even realize he's done so. (That's why the premade ones are called "sample" traditions.)

I mention this not to be difficult, but because I want to make sure–if I'm going to rebuild–that I know what the DM's and party's goals are. If your goals are truly just not using a custom tradition, I think I *could* make that change...but I guarantee that wouldn't make a SoM + SoG character much easier to digest, and probably wouldn't lower my power level. (At the very least, if someone asked me to reduce my power level there are two other places I'd look at first, both in SoM.)

So if we're looking to reduce power, I'm happy to but also I'd love to hear a bit about guidelines (or what the concerns were), so I don't guess wrong and then have to build her up a 3rd time.

If we're looking to make her easier to digest, I think maybe I should drop SoG altogether, not just the custom tradition. (I was excited to try using SoG, but it could be on another game, not here.) That will cut the number of talents she has by a bit more than half so will clearly make her easier to read and digest, as well as reducing her versatility. The main issue with dropping SoG is that I was using SoG to get access to the ability to disable magical traps (which Canny Scoundrel loses). If we don't care about that, I can totally make that shift. If we DO think the ability to disarm magic traps is important I could either keep a custom trade tradition (but lose the SoG archetype, and lose any particular parts that yall let me know seemed problematic)...or if DM is OK with taking campaign traits I could pick trap finder...but since that's from an AP it wouldn't normally be allowed without an DM's exception.

Thoughts?

“Watch your back, Miss.” Manfri growls as he combines shield and sword to fend off the Walker.

“Or … I s’pose I could watch it for you.”

"Uuuggghh!" Autumn dances neatly out of the way of the falling body but grimaces with disgust, watching the corpse thud onto the ground with ichor draining from several holes.

To Manfri, she says, "I hope it won't need watching again t'night, but I appreciate the offer."

With a slight curtsey, she adds, "Autumn Longbriar. Grew up in Karcau, found myself here recently...and I'm embarrassed to say I'm not entirely sure where 'here' is. Growing up in Ustalav, I heard stories of the dead walking like this...but haven't seen it before. Have you all?"

Perception: 1d20 + 6 ⇒ (15) + 6 = 21

Suddenly–before folks can answer–Autumn hears the banging and looks up, frowning. She sees them head up and she follows close behind, dagger in hand. "Ulp. You think that wasn't the only one?"

Stealth: 1d20 + 12 ⇒ (12) + 12 = 24

Hey, I hadn't really looked into the predefined trade traditions (as, honestly, every game I've encountered that has allowed Spheres content allows creation of traditions). I looked. I think I'd have to do a major recreation of my character. (As written, they really push toward particular backstories, and there isn't a way I can find to have both the ability to disarm magical traps AND to have key skills like Stealth and Acrobatics, let alone to be able to dance.)

Are you concerned that Autumn is too powerful? If so, I'd love to work with you to bring her power level to what you're wanting...and/or to agree to tweak as needed, over time. (My goal is always to have the game work well for all.)

Happy to discuss concerns here or (maybe easier) on Discord PM; I'll ping you there.

If no custom traditions is a hard requirement I'll respect that, but I may need several days to rebuild.

@Autumn - I spent over an hour trying to deconstruct your character sheet last night and I still couldn't figure out several things.

When you make replacements/substitutions, can you please explicitly list the replacement out in your sheet? Without these call outs, it makes it extremely difficult to figure out where everything is coming from.

Hey, sure, always feel free to ask. Spheres of Might and Guile are both wonderful systems, but a lot to grok all at once. I’ll spell out what I’ve done as best I can…and it’s certainly possible I’ve made some errors along the way so I appreciate the review.

Why do you have 16 skills with 29 ranks? As a rogue, you get 8 skills. You replaced these 8 with Trade Tradition, which says "if you choose a trade tradition, you do not gain any of the class skills listed for your class". I see that you have various syntax to indicate some break down, but no key. The Trade Tradition should provide a list of skills you now gain access to, but how are you coming up with 29 ranks? You should be getting the (8 - 1 for Int) per level + the free ranks from Base Sphere(Associated Skill) access?

Where do all those ranks come from?

I’ll also add this key to my profile:
* ranks granted by a sphere
^ background skill ranks
// as you annotations, I added the marks but forgot to spell out the key. Sorry about that! :-/

I’ll list the skills I get free ranks in (with the Sphere that grants them) here:
- Acro (Athletics: Run)
- Bluff (Fencing)
- Climb (Athletics: Climb)
- Escape Artist (Body Control)
- Perform: Dance (Performance)
- Sleight of Hand (Scoundrel)
- Stealth (Scout)
// this is more skill ranks than I’ve gotten free for any other Spheres character, but that’s partly because, as a rogue, I’ve gone for the more skill-focused spheres instead of some of the more narrowly martial spheres. (It’s also somewhat because of adding in Spheres of Guile (SoG) and Spheres of Might (SoM) together…but in this case, I only get two of the above from SoG.)

My background ranks are
- Appraise : 1, Perform Comedy: 1. ,Profession Gambler: 2. = 4 points (2/lvl)

In addition, I have 6 skills that I’ve put two ranks in (Bluff, Diplomacy, Disable Device, Perception, Sense Motive, UMD) and 2 that I’ve put one rank in (Intim, Disguise). Total = 14 skill points (8 Rogue -1 INT = 7 *2 lvls)

…actually, as I was doublechecking just now I realized that I’d missed that the Fencing Sphere gives ranks in Bluff…so believe it or not I’d mistakenly listed two too *few* ranks. I’ll update it by making Intimidate and Disguise 2 ranks instead of 1 each.

What trade tradition did you take? Nothing on the wiki maps to the 4 Trade Talents you list and the associated skills that would be replaced.

1. Trade: Cutpurse
2. Trade: Dungeon Delver
3. Trade: Gambler
4. Trade: Mage Hunter

How are you gaining access to the rest of the Performance Sphere? "A base trade tradition will typically contain 3 skill talents: two (trade) talents and a base sphere. Certain skill-oriented feats may substitute for this base sphere." When a Trade Talent is listed, it does not appear to provide the base sphere abilities.

The only way this could work is if the Trade Tradition provided the "Automatic Skill Sphere: Performance (Dance package)" and the Adroit Bonus Skill Talent was a sphere instead of a sphere talent.

Is this Trade Tradition defined in the book that's not posted on the Wiki?

Each trade tradition grants either 2 trade talents + 1 base sphere (if the class gives four or fewer skill points/level) or 4 trade talents + and 2 base spheres (or 1 base, and 1 utility talent from that base sphere) for classes like Rogue that give > 4 SP/lvl. (The SoG turn for classes with up to 4 ranks/lvl = Competent, and for 5+ = Adroit.)

The book lists a lot of examples, but one can define one’s own as well, according to the above rules. In my case, I took the 4 trade traditions you noted, and then two base spheres: Performance, and Body Control. For Performance, I chose the Dance package and Entwining Prance.

The Grifter archetype trades ½ of one’s rogue talents + rogue’s edge to gain the Virtuoso progression. At L2, that gets me 2 general SoG talents +1 utility talent, listed on my sheet but I’ll repeat them here:

L1 - Performance: Performance Mastery
L2 - Performance: Guarded Twist
L2 [util] - Performance: Synchronized Rhythm

How are you converting the Racial Ability -> Run feat to a Sphere equivalent?

Spheres of Might (and SoG) has the concept of an “Associated Feat” for a sphere. Sometimes the feat and the sphere give exactly the same benefit; other times it’s slightly different. In either case, Spheres lets you, whenever you’d be granted a feat that is associated with a sphere or talent, to instead get the sphere (or talent) that’s associated with that feat. (Often, to not do so would make for some weird interractions.)

What is "Virtuoso Operative" and the associated modifications?

There are basically 3 progressions for Spheres of Guile (listed in the Using Spheres of Guile page). Virtuoso is the fastest of the three progressions.

- - -

I hope the above helps! If it’s still confusing–or if you think I’ve got something wrong, or there’s just something you don’t think’ll work well in your game–don’t hesitate to let me know!

FYI, any of all are welcome to join my dance. You can read all the details in the Performance Sphere, but here's the skinny.

Allies within 10 feet of me may either spend a move action and move up to half their speed, or take a 5-foot step, to gain the benefits of your dance until the start of their next turn. (Or in this case, use your Move to move up to 1/2 your speed (max) to get within 10' of me).

Anyone who joins the dance gets the benefits of it for that round. In this case:

1) Guarded Twist (dance) - if you join the dance you can us my Dance roll (a 32(!) since I got a Nat 20 on it) to freely move through it's space without triggering AoOs this round

More details of it:
A creature can pick up an item from the ground, retrieve a stored item, sheathe a weapon, or stand up from prone as part of the movement required to join or maintain this dance. Dancers taking the actions listed above do not provoke an attack of opportunity (including when they initially take the action to become a dancer).

Additionally, whenever you begin or maintain a dance with this talent, roll a Perform (dance) check with a circumstance bonus equal to the number of dancers, which cannot exceed your operative ability modifier (minimum +1). All dancers may use your Perform (dance) check result in place of any Acrobatics check to avoid provoking an attack of opportunity for as long as they continue the dance.

2) Synchronized Rhythm - can use +13(including +2 morale) on any of the below skills this round

Details:
Whenever a dancer attempts an Acrobatics check made to balance, jump, soften a fall, or wall hop, Climb check, Escape Artist check made to squeeze, Fly check, Sleight of Hand check, or Swim check, they can choose to use your Perform (dance) bonus when making such a check, gaining a morale bonus equal to the number of dancers within your dance (maximum bonus equal to your operative modifier). Any penalties they are suffering to the check still apply.

Fort: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (9) + 3 = 12 Fail
Escape Artist: 1d20 + 9 ⇒ (8) + 9 = 17 Immediate action: Try to Endure (Body Control: maintain stamina) vs "saving throw to avoid the exhausted, fatigued, nauseated, paralyzed, or sickened conditions" (assuming that’s applicable here)...also a Fail.
Fort: 1d20 + 3 ⇒ (16) + 3 = 19 Lessons of Chaldira: 1/day reroll a save...and finally succeed! (whew!)

Autumn had come to the Inn hungry, craving the shrimp étouffée she’d enjoyed last night, but while she waited for it she was overcome by the putrid wave.

She drew on her reserves, sweating, trying to use her conditioning to move through it…and felt that fail as well. As she was about to hurl the contents of her mostly-empty stomach onto the floor, Autumn rubbed her lucky button. Thinking of her uncle Turrey, she whispered, C’mon Chaldira, help a girl out!...and miraculously, she felt an immediate relief.

Looking up Autumn sees one of her fellow customers fair much less well. ”Aww no!” Growing up in Ustalav, of course I knew the dead sometimes walk…but seeing it, that’s a whole ‘nother thing.

When she sees a few brave souls stand to take it down, Autumn says to herself, OK Turrey, I know. YOU’D join them, so I better too.

Autumn tumbles from her chair, drawing her dagger. She starts to hum a tune–mostly to calm herself–and starts to tumble and dance, cartwheeling over two plush chairs facing the fireplace. When she lands beside the zombie she snaps in his face, hoping to disorient him, and then dodges behind the dead man, keeping him between her and the fellow with the sword.

She whips out with her dagger, aiming to sever the walker's spine.

Those who're noticing her for the first time see a lean, lithe halfling with cinnamon-brown skin and thick braids, wearing skirts and scarfs that accentuate her dancing.

Immd try to Endure (Maintain Stamina)...and fail
Free Lessons of Chaldira (1/day) reroll a save
Move Start a dance, moving 20' (1/2 my total move, as shown on the map), choosing Guarded Twist and Synchronized Rhythm.
. . Use Dizzying Tumble (DC 13 Will) on the zombie*
. . "Your rapid spins and twists leave a creatures reeling. As long as you move no more than your base speed, when you exit a square adjacent to a hostile creature, that creature must succeed on a Will save or be sickened for one round. If you move no more than half your base speed, they are instead nauseated for 1 round on a failed save; this talent cannot be used with the 5-foot step action. You may not nauseate an individual creature with this talent more than once per hour."
Stnd attack

Dance: 1d20 + 11 ⇒ (20) + 11 = 31
Acrobatics: 1d20 + 11 ⇒ (2) + 11 = 13 Will use my Dance to avoid AoOs instead of Acro this round

Dagger+flank: 1d20 + 7 + 2 ⇒ (4) + 7 + 2 = 13
Damage (sneak, fencing): 1d3 - 1 + 2d6 ⇒ (1) - 1 + (3, 5) = 8 8 lethal (and 1 nonlethal...which I'm sure has no effect

Great. Let's say that Autumn got free passage by performing as a dancer on the boat but got annoyed by some of the wealthier patrons. When she tried to fleece them at the gambling tables, a few got suspicious and things on the boat started heating up for her, making her think it was time to get off board fast.

There might've been a passenger who disappeared already by that point (or not) but if so Autumn wasn't really tracking it, and it had probably been hushed. The one person that she was aware of disappearing was one of the other dancers onboard: Carius, an amusingly sarcastic Chelaxian fellow.

Autumn snuck away in Port d'Elhour–mostly to avoid punishment, but also hoping to perhaps find Carius. Once she was making her way through the little town she realized something was weird, but didn't really have a choice to go back at that point. She arrived in Marais d'Tarascon a few days ago and keeps hearing creepy stories but hasn't seen anything truly undead yet...until now, when she steps back into the Inn looking for dinner and sees this fight underway.

I'll add more color to Autumn's backstory and personality as we go, but for now: She's fairly brave, and as a halfling kid from a poor family she was used to defending herself from people bigger than her on the streets of Karcau. When she was in her mid-teens, she actually got over her head in a gang (at first drawn in my the promise of a group that would look out for one another...but eventually realizing she couldn't hang with them). By the time she was 18 she knew she needed out, and just then fortune smiled: her uncle Turrey Butterhill, a warpriest of Chaldira Zuzaristan who lived mostly in Varisia but sometimes traveled with caravans came through, saw the trouble she was in, and managed to help her extricate herself from the gang and go (mostly) straight.

She started working as a dancer, and was good at it, but the pay was never great...and her fingers sometimes got itchy (but mostly in situations where she went unnoticed, or was able to proclaim her innocence...or just was able to get away quickly). Karcau's big enough that she has both friends and enemies back there, but she'd like to get back.

In terms of motivations: uncle Turrey was truly brave, as well as being a shining optimist., and she aspires to be like him. She has the bravery of a street kid who knows she's tough and has won fights against people bigger than her...but she's never killed before, and never encountered the undead. And we'll see how much her tendency to get antsy/impatience and her desire for thrills get the better of her. ;-)

Init: 1d20 + 6 ⇒ (10) + 6 = 16

...Coming soon...should I assume I'm in the Inn, and see this scene?If so, I'll describe a bit in my opening post.

Thanks!

OK! Autumn Longbriar is ready for your review, and–if you don't have questions or concerns–to show up.

Backstory'll be fleshed out a bit more, but I think Autumn had to leave the last town in a hurry (when someone–quite unfairly, of course, accused her of cheating at cards), and recently ended up here.

Her biggest passion is dancing, and her biggest weakness is a sometimes difficult-to-control appetite for risks and thrills. The latter shows up particularly in her gambling, and sometimes in pocketing something that doesn't, strictly speaking, belong to her. In the past it also showed up in a tendency to get into fights...but now she's trying to follow Chaldira Zuzaristan's example and focus her mischief on those who deserve it.

Those are broad strokes. More to come...but her build's in her profile now. (I copied the full text of her Spheres of Guile and Might talents, since they're new to many folks...and the Guile ones are still fairly new to me too.)

reference image here.

Cheers,