AucturnTheStranger's page

The rules are not clearly defined enough for either side to agree on. At this point, the GM and player need to work out an answer that both sides agree on. It's best for both GM and player to work with each other to keep the game going.

"Computers are good at storing data, making calculations, manipulating and sorting information, performing rote tasks, and combining these tasks (often in the form of apps or programs). A computer may be set up to perform any of these functions in a general way, and it’s impossible to define everything a computer can possibly do."
This is clearly stating that the given examples (computer, robot, weapon, med-bed) are in no way a complete list of a computers potential.
"Anything more complex that would NORMALLY REQUIRE A CREATURE TO OPERATE must be controlled through a control module."
"The control module allows the computer to operate a complex device, to which it must be in some way connected. (Simpler devices can be controlled as part of a computer’s basic functions.)"
I interpret that the book is giving the specifics for rules on the device types which need these rules. It is not saying these are the only devices that can be controlled. Vehicles can be controlled, and vehicles move. It's safe to assume that the power armor can move, since it requires a battery. If the power armor must make skill checks to walk over a curb, that's provided by the computer.

The control module can control non autonomous and autonomous devices.
"When in charge of a device that can already operate autonomously (such as a robot or another computer), the controlling computer can give orders to that device. When operating a device that requires a skill check or attack roll (such as a computer hooked to a med-bed or weapon), the controlling computer can either allow a creature with authorized access to attempt a skill check or attack roll, or attempt the skill check or attack roll itself."
You seem to think it can only operate autonomous devices, when this is written right in the book it can control any complex device with more than an on/off switch.

Yes I'll treat it as an object. AC as an object with hardness and HP. The power armor will basically walk around, follow me, and carry a heavy weapon on its weapon mount, which will also have a control module.
There is an example for a longarm being controlled by a control module, and it is turned into an autonomous weapon by the computer with a control module. A longarm is not autonomous. The control module gives the computer ability to use the connected device to do what the device already does. It is also written that if the device isn't autonomous, then it's a basic device and no control module is needed.

Just to be clear if you had put this in the home brew section the rest of us would have been a lot more cooperative

Ok...but in my first post I pointed out I was asking how it would work, and asked

Yes I want it to walk around and follow me as a simple program. It will not have an Int score and is as basic as a mobile turret but it can move. I can use my exocortex to make a Computers check with Wireless Hack. I can also use this with Remote Hack from custom rig. It will act like the turret and follow basic tasks until I tell it what to do. It will cost my actions to use. It can't shoot at all. It is hackable. The anti personnel weapon was a good comparison.
If the power armor itself is not autonomous, then it would fall into the basic category and not even require a control module.

Alright, I think I've gotten enough good answers and ideas to get the pitch to the GM.
Cheers!

You can’t have it both ways, say we’re not providing rules then ignore them

You sound kinda like an ex of mine :D

Okay show me a control module with a str score of 14 then

the sensors feed into a computer to the motors. The STR score is to operate the sensors. You don't need a data jack to control the power armor.

Autonomy: without external control or influence; independent

Although a robot might have an AI, most of the time robots like loader bots and manufacturing bots are considered autonomous. They are given a task and do it.
Computers are the same way. You consider them autonomous in the book as an example. But what does it do without input? It does computation.
Power armor is a tool that holds up the armor plates with a use of motors. Thats why it depletes a battery. The characters strength must be 14 to send signals to whatever moves the motors.
Thats why you need power armor proficiency; it's to adjust to moving in combat with the signals by your own strength. Until you get used to it then it's hard to fight.
I will have that proficiency at 7th and program it into the Tier 3 rig. Under the computer section there is the fact that you put data into the computer, with the feat I know.

AucturnTheStranger wrote:

Robert Gooding wrote:

Proving my point. When you get your army of robots the entire game will revolve around your turns and no one else will enjoy the game.

Making you the person deliberately trying to ruin everyone else’s fun, leaving your gym with 2 choices to constantly ban hammer you or not invite you to future sessions.

Please take a serious look at your behaviour and play style before there’s no one left who will play with you

Before this comment I clearly mentioned that I did not want to overshadow the other players or bog down the game. I think this armor idea will be faster to run as a player than a drone or other "pet" class, because most of the time I'll be wearing it. I'd like to find reasonable rules to make this idea work before I even bring this to the GM.

That was directed at the fanatical person supporting you, while we disagree with you you have at least kept semi reasonable

I don't agree. Despite their name, Ridiculon has been offering facts from the book and ideas about getting this idea to fly. Other posters are either stuck in denial when quotes from the book are read to them, or make no clear sense. Take that with a grain of salt, because Ridiculon agrees with me and understands the point of this thread. Anywho, let's not turn this thread into a flame war? I'd just like to take a cool idea and make it happen.

AucturnTheStranger wrote:

Robert Gooding wrote:

Proving my point. When you get your army of robots the entire game will revolve around your turns and no one else will enjoy the game.

Making you the person deliberately trying to ruin everyone else’s fun, leaving your gym with 2 choices to constantly ban hammer you or not invite you to future sessions.

Please take a serious look at your behaviour and play style before there’s no one left who will play with you

Before this comment I clearly mentioned that I did not want to overshadow the other players or bog down the game. I think this armor idea will be faster to run as a player than a drone or other "pet" class, because most of the time I'll be wearing it. I'd like to find reasonable rules to make this idea work before I even bring this to the GM.

That was directed at the fanatical person supporting you, while we disagree with you you have at least kept semi reasonable

But sure, point by.

1: A Control Module is an upgrade for an existing computer (as are all modules). It does not grant Autonomy, but if it is installed on something that already has autonomy (examples in the book are a robot or another computer), the controlling computer can give orders to that device. It does not make them into constructs, they are still whatever type of object/creature they were before.

Regarding Powered Armor, the armor may have a computer installed, but the armor is not controlled by the computer. The Wearer is controlling the Powered Armor. Without Wearer, the powered armor lacks control.

2: If you read the description for the list strength of all Powered Armors, you will note that strength stat is not the strength of the object, but the strentgh that of the wearer while they are wearing the Powered Armor. A Battle Harness has no strength stat of it own, only while being worn does the strength of the Powered Armor have any effect in-game.

That's not alone, most of the Powered Armor features modify the wearer, not the armor. AC, for example, is modifying the Wearer's AC and has no affect on the object's AC.

3: No, Control Module does not transforms ordinary objects into constructs. That is not a listed feature.

4: Powered Armor, with or without a Control Module, is not a Construct. Normally, the durability of an object is determined by their item level, but is only used when the object is attacked directly (like via sunder).

A Battle Harness, for example, with Tensile Reinforcement is a 10th level item for the purposes of HP and Hardness, so as a sturdy object is has 25 hardness (5 + 2 x item level) and 45 HP (15 + 3 x item level). The HP isn't much of an issue, but -25 to the damage of all attacks against pretty strong....Especially when the PC in question is only 7th level.

5: So now you have an Object that can transform between being object and being a Construct. What messy rules interactions.

As for spells, it really counts as both armor AND a...

Pax Miles, I would appreciate if you would read my previous posts. Not including the "relevant components" provided by the control module, earlier I figured I would build a mini computer armor upgrade to allow computer input to emulate manual input by the driver. The control module will talk to this upgrade. I figured to pitch this idea I need to show I'm making reasonable sacrifices and paying costs.

Proving my point. When you get your army of robots the entire game will revolve around your turns and no one else will enjoy the game.

Making you the person deliberately trying to ruin everyone else’s fun, leaving your gym with 2 choices to constantly ban hammer you or not invite you to future sessions.

Please take a serious look at your behaviour and play style before there’s no one left who will play with you

Before this comment I clearly mentioned that I did not want to overshadow the other players or bog down the game. I think this armor idea will be faster to run as a player than a drone or other "pet" class, because most of the time I'll be wearing it. I'd like to find reasonable rules to make this idea work before I even bring this to the GM.

Maybe some sort of disabling of the exocortex for an amount of time, to simulate it being 'busy' running the power armor caddy?

The exocortex itself is like a cybernetic prosthetic. It's a different class feature. The custom rig class feature is what would be operating the power armor, through use of artificial personality and control module. But it might be reasonable to say while the power armor is being operated by the rig, that I couldn't access the computer for checking the web or hacking or engineer tools. I'm ok with being locked out of my computer while it's busy processing.

"The following rules are designed to give GMs the tools necessary to design computer systems thats are both interesting and challenging." - page 213
"A computer may be set up to perform any of these functions in a general way, and it's impossible to define everything a computer can possibly do. In general, computers can be treated as tools that streamline tasks that would otherwise demand significant bookkeeping, computation, sorting, tracking, or viewing, as long as the needed data can be input....and ultimately it is up to a GM to determine a computers total capacity for performing such basic functions....Anything more complex that would normally require a creature to operate must be controlled through a control module." - page 214

What would my Tier 3 custom rig DO without the control module? The control module itself allows control and provides "related components" for the controlled device. But the Tier 3 computer cannot perform the computations to move the armor's motors because....why? According to RAW, it's not IF it can, but HOW can it? I'm asking for suggestions of rules and costs for the idea.

Because I have an exocortex and not a drone shouldn't keep me from having a control module drive something. If you looked at the drone's comparable attack bonus and other stats, that increase by level for free, maybe a machine I build and pay for isn't the same as a class ability. I can see the similarity to Drone Meld. But I wanted the exocortex over drone. A cyborg soldier augments himself. The armor is supposed to be an extension. I'll usually wear the armor, but I also want it to act as a decoy I can fix, give covering fire, and carry my loot.
My GM has not said I can't have it because I didn't pick drone. He said I need to come up with reasonable rules and cost to make it work.

AucturnTheStranger wrote:

I have an android mechanic with an exocortex. At 7th level I will take Power Armor Proficiency, and will get Expert Rig, which is integrated with the exocortex.

Now I want to add a control module to the rig, costing 345 credits (10% of device). Using artificial personality, and remote hack and wireless hack, I should be able to control the battle harness through voice commands.
The GM makes a great point. Would the armor have proficiency with itself? The example controlled longarm under control module is given proficiency and a mount for a functioning turret. Would this work? Any answers or thoughts appreciated!

Okay, so you were given the choice between having a drone and having an exocotex at 1st level. You picked exocortex and now you are trying to ALSO have a drone? I'd call that an attempt at cheating, if I were your GM.

But if the GM doesn't care...

I also think that you'll run into lots of game balance problems, since Powered Armor is intended to be an object, not a creature.

It's not that I wanna slide this under the GMs radar, but I'm trying to come up with a good system of rules for pitching to him that sounds reasonable. I honestly dont wanna kill the game as the other players groan as I dominate with walking power armor. It doesnt really look like it would. Its nowhere near as versatile or powerful as a drone. Also, if it reaches 0 HP, it is destroyed just like an item. I'm aware of that risk. No one wants to lose thousands of credits. I want the mechanic to be a cyborg soldier, and the power armor is an extension of that.

So the object being controlled seems to need to have robotic parts that are electrically operated in order to control the object by computer. Heavy armor couldn't, but powered armor is clearly digitally controlled, and doesn't require a human body for structural support. The fact that a vehicle can be controlled is what makes me feel there's room to control powered armor.

But I don't think it would be very good. If you assume based on the fact that the computer is proficient with weapons it control that it's also compatible with the armor and its weapons, then you're still relying on its tier or your own abilities for skill checks. And you'd be relying on the armor's hp and you'd have no saves because items don't get them unless they're worn by a creature with saves.

Raw, you probably shouldn't be able to do it but you can make an argument for it. Is it worth it? I dunno

It's not that it needs to be good or powerful, but versatile. I'm not trying to get a superpowered robot. I want my power armor to follow me around until I need it, at 20 ft range. And provide covering fire, because at 7th lvl the custom rig has an attack bonus of +3. Also I'm using an armor upgrade computer to allow signals the operator normally provides to be given by a tier 3 computer. RAW, there is a passage under computers that says it might be possible with the right system.

Great, thanks for the advice. Here's what I'm thinking now.
The power armor will need an armor upgrade. I'm thinking a miniaturized computer with a camera and microphone, maybe tier 1 or 2. This is to replace control commands from operator to a control computer.
My custom rig from mechanic will be a tier 3 computer with artificial personality, and 2 control modules. One for the upgrade computer, the other for a weapon control on the weapon mount.
The power armor by itself will function like a creature. STR 18, Dex 10, Con -, Int -, Wis 10, Cha -.
AC=battle harness, HP=as object (30)

I have an android mechanic with an exocortex. At 7th level I will take Power Armor Proficiency, and will get Expert Rig, which is integrated with the exocortex.
Now I want to add a control module to the rig, costing 345 credits (10% of device). Using artificial personality, and remote hack and wireless hack, I should be able to control the battle harness through voice commands.
The GM makes a great point. Would the armor have proficiency with itself? The example controlled longarm under control module is given proficiency and a mount for a functioning turret. Would this work? Any answers or thoughts appreciated!