Atel's page

Does the protective aura of the astral deva prevent it from being dispelled?

As I see it the secret page spell gives 2 options as written when it comes to writing new spells.

1. Write a single page of a spell into a spell book per casting with no change to the number of pages, at no cost and at a faster rate. The caster learns the new spell gets ready to write it out the usual way when the thought occurs that the spell could do all of that tedious work for me and it would take less time. Great.

2. Use the spell to hide a second page of a different spell with the same process and restrictions as in case 1 but only on pages written without using secret page since casting the same spell should replace the original. Now we have a spell book that has 200 pages in it that requires a command word or words to access the extra 100 pages.

That is just my opinion of what I see in the spell description. The spell is powerful no doubt but for transmutation at that level why not? It is one of a very few that true seeing does not just straight out trump. That is a spell I think needs a posting on.

As for the BB as is I feel it is close to over the top but not so much as to think the price has to be inflated to the numbers I have seen suggested. It is kind of a must have for me but not to save money on new spells rather to make a backup of spells that I already know into a neat and tougher book for traveling. Keep the fragile originals in a safe place that you have access to if needed.

I would think that changing the BB to only waive the costs for spells you already know and have recorded elsewhere to feel like it came from a cheese factory of some sort but would not lose my head over it.

Just my take on it.

So we want to replace the big six because they are must haves? If they are indeed that great and paizo is actually able to remove them and fix the related problems I have only one question. What will we do with the next big six?

Well the characters I have seen that have pushed to the limits on adding all of those bonus types to something were suffering in many other departments. Well-rounded characters are much more survivable than an extremely specialized characters could hope to be. Specialists can be fun to run though and may ruin a DMs plans on how he wants to run something.

In a fantasy game that has dragons, wizards, clerics and countless other wondrous creatures running around people honestly are going to complain that their characters are dependant on magical gear? I think that it is quite fitting that high level characters have to choose between buying items that cost more than some kingdoms are worth or actually settling down to try to run a kingdom. Going after creatures that are the stuff of nightmares and legends should require the PCs to hunt out every possible advantage mundane or magical and that list should not be short.

While I understand that having a list of items that everyone must have in order to be effective is not ideal I also think that the big 6 are a bit blown out of proportion. I have played under many DMs and with many players and I can say with no reservations that the big 6 were present in every game most players did not have all of them. I did notice that the DMs that really thought out their encounters and put us in over our heads had every PC analyzing every pro and con of every item that they carried where as the other DMs that did not constantly put us between a rock and a hard place had PCs that were likely to have frivolously splurged on some fun items.

The various games that I run or have run range from ¼ to 8 times “recommended” PC wealth by level and the Christmas tree syndrome exists in each of them only as much as I want it to. The players know what the core rules are but also know about rule zero the DM has final say on all of what happens in the fantasy realm he is running but is also responsible to ensure that the majority if not all of their players are having fun.

When I want to run low magic I have to put in some extra work to be sure that the challenges that I lay out can be survived. When the middle ground is taken things can be more or less used out of the books but this still requires some effort in that a sound strategy and execution as to how to challenge the group of PCs within the rules. High magic games take an insane amount of time to prep but the payoff for me is well worth it.

My suggestion is to stay in the middle where it is at now with options on higher and lower magic games. From the middle either type of play can be adjusted to taste with a moderate amount of work.

Sorry for the rant but I felt it necessary.

Sorry I should have been more specific in my statement of material components not changing the price of magic items. Wondrous items do not follow the rules for potions, scrolls or wands.

From the Pathfinder beta page 77:

“Extra Costs: Any potion, scroll, or wand that stores a spell with a costly material component also carries a commensurate cost. For potions and scrolls, the creator must expend the material component cost when creating the item. For a wand, the creator must expend 50 copies of the Material component. Some magic items similarly incur extra costs in material components, as noted in their descriptions.”

As there is no listing of the material component in the description there should be no added cost.

From what I hope is still a valid 3.5 SRD in the section on creating wondrous items:

“If spells are involved in the prerequisites for making the item, the creator must have prepared the spells to be cast (or must know the spells, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) but need not provide any material components or focuses the spells require, nor are any XP costs inherent in a prerequisite spell incurred in the creation of the item. The act of working on the item triggers the prepared spells, making them unavailable for casting during each day of the item’s creation. (That is, those spell slots are expended from his currently prepared spells, just as if they had been cast.) “

Something that I find odd about the tomes is that it is basically a scroll with wish on it a number of times equal to the bonus it grants usable by any class but still cheaper than the scroll. I realize that it is only one specific use of the spell but isn’t each ability of a wish supposed to be similar in power?

The item price or the spell price needs to change and after reading wish again I think that the spell cost is the high one. It is a tough call because so much of the power that is in wish is in the hands of your DM but the basic descriptions are more like an old school limited wish but that is another topic.

The +5 to all ability scores for one character using item creation will set you back a mere 412,500 gold and take over 2 years to complete or 750,000 gold and 6 days. The later option will not work with the new wish.

Wish having a loss for a gain is a serious loss in power for the spell however it is offset by the material component change to cold hard cash. I do not like the change but I will have to wait a few levels before I can make any comments. The tomes and such not following the same mechanic as wish is great in my opinion but the cost should increase due to the obvious increase in power above the spell it is based on. Material components do not increase the cost of items created as the spell is not actually cast during creation, the prepared slot is spent and not available.

This is the kind of flavor any item description could benefit from. Well done indeed.

The retraining of a spell up to max level at every gained level works great. It has been used in most of the games I have played in. Getting stuck with spells that were needed early on hurts terribly. It does grant some much needed flexibility to a good class without going overboard.

The 20th level power for the universalist should be toned down to+1/+2 and the specialist should definitely get a bonus to their school save DC with matching penalties to their "dropped" schools at first level to keep them one up on the universalist. The specialist currently has no real advantage in their chosen school which I see no sense in calling them a school specialist more of a theme than anything.

Some spells need to be adjusted more than others and when we get into that section of the play testing we need to be sure to set things right. As for the wizard being OP? They are great in some circumstances and suck in others. No different than the other classes excluding bard. The problems come from smart players running any class. If you play for fun then it will be. Here is to keeping things fun.