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Hi,

In the interest of Role Playing instead of ROLL playing. Our DM had us write up some Backstories and exchange them with another player.

We were then to come up with a build/class for that backstory. Proplem is me and the person who swapped thought of the same class and we don't wanna do that.

I'm wondering what you guys would make in terms of class/combat style.

Dugald:
Dugald was born into nobility. Growing up with love for his deity created steadfast belief and passion in the young man, until his home and family were destroyed by a long forgotten enemy. A lich necromancer from generations past dropped him in a pit and exterminated his family in front of him.

He was given a choice- slay his young sister or watch his entire house- Father, mother, grandfather, brother, cousins, servants etc all die by evisceration. The choice nearly destroyed him. He suffered watching his parents and brother die before his grandfather’s shouts drove him to action- “You must do the greatest good for the greatest number, though it ruins you, you must sacrifice for the all. Your sister will be welcomed by the gods” right before he too was killed. Dugald, he and his sister crying, held her close and whispered a prayer to speed her journey and ask for forgiveness, then plunged a dagger into her back while holding her and lying that it was going to be ok. Though the necromancer released what remained of his family and left, satisfied at the suffering inflicted, Dugald has been awash with grief ever since. He knows he saved his family but destroyed himself and his dear sister. His deity still hears him, this is a sign of his gods anger at the necromancer. Dugald quests endlessly to find him, in the mean time he clings to his faith- justice for the innocent and damnation for the wicked. He is a weapon.

Dugald sees himself as a judge and executioner. He will punish evil as often as able but will prioritize doing good and innocent lives first, he is not stupid and will use whatever tactical advantage he can gain without causing unnecessary harm. He prefers to formalize execution- listing crimes, judging and last rites, but against foes too dangerous is not above sneaky tactics as he is loathe to risk allies.

Daniel Arisen:

Daniel Arisen is so named because he was thought stillborn at birth. His Elven mother died bringing him into this world and his paladin father had been killed at the world wound months before. Raised by his dad's brother, he was groomed to be a knight in Indomae's church. Starting as a medic at the world wound, he saw first hand the threat the infernal relms are. Learning to fight well and focus his faith offensively he now specializes in killing demons. He has left the world wound now, specifically to hunt down and destroy demons and devils which have escaped the notice of the church in Golarion. He has a paladin’s outlook in terms of good, believing a good deed worth it for it’s own sake. He is more inclined to good than completely rigid law, a life time raised in war has taught him pragmatism.

As far as combat goes he is quite the leader, inspiring courage in allies and fear in enemies. His ability to do damage is quite good but he is not stupid enough to give a foe even terms. He will arrange the field to his advantage and happily use magic against a fighter in single combat. He is honorable though and will give quarter to a foe who asks, except for evil outsiders of course who need to be destroyed on sight.


Hi,

I only recently discovered this spell. I'm really not sure if this is balanced.

Say Belkar the ranger (rangers are best class for this spell. Oracles, paladins and clerics get divine favor/power already)
takes 25 points of damage and swears to defeat the evil lich.

That's +5 to any check, attack etc not just against said lich, but anything relating to finding and killing him. Everything. The spell doesn't even have a duration.

I know 25 points of health seems alot but considering pally's can swift heal and ranger's can dump dex (if twf) between good con scores, favored class bonues and belts of physical perfection is it really a good enough sacrifice for such a powerful spell?


Hi,

as per the rules for doubling damage, the base weapon damage and fixed numbers are doubled but the rules seem to assume charging means one attack.

This vision probably was thought of as a single attack with a lance.

Mounted skirmisher lets you full attack while mounted.

1. First, I can't imagine getting 4 (5 if hasted) attacks from charging with a lance. RAW you can do it I guess but it stinks of cheese.

2. I can see a TWF scimitar and board cavalier full attacking while mounted.

In either scenario are you doubling (or tripling for the lance) the damage on every attack? My thinking is maybe just the first.


Hi,

Just been re-thinking my Two weapon warrior build. (replaying it in new game starting at Lvl 14) Had a blast last time but re-thinking.

Given that DR is a problem for TWW more than 2 handed, is a TWW better off taking Penetrating Strike at 15 or Bleeding Crit?

This is in a Duel wield scimitar build.

This is purely a dpr question.

Currently the build has
12 Martial Stance: Martial Spirit (and an earlier feat retrained for rolibars gambit)
13 Staggering Crit (at 13 gets equal oppourtunity)
14 Two Weapon Rend
15 Penetrating Strike
16 Gtr Wpn Fcs: Scimitar (reformed feat for combat vigor)
17 GTR TWF
18 GTR Wpn Spl
19 Melee Wpn Mastery
20 Gtr Penetrating Strike (reformed feat for combat strike)

We will be using the critical feat deck for the first time.
Last time I used a
Primary- +5 keen, corrosive, wounding, ghost touch scimitar

Offhand- +5 keen, frost, wounding, menacing, keen scimitar

I'm thinking if I go Bleeding crit it may? outdo the damage from penetrating strike (DM does like DR though) and if this is right would save me the wounding enhancement for something better?

Our Divine caster player (dude ALWAYS plays cleric/inquis/druid/oracle) loves to buff so alignment wpn is usually not a issue.

Given all this would Bleeding at 15 and Critical mastery at 20 work better?
I took staggering cause it denies full attacks and is some Battle control, but it seemed a little counter productive last time. The build uses rolibar's which is a 3.5 fighter version of come and get me.

Thing is by this level I was staggering almost everyround. So full attacks vs me almost never happened (since rolibars counters each strike- my stagger interupts thier full attacks).

Still works but means you generally only get 1 or 2 AOO's per round. This limits the damage I take but, consequently limits the damage I do (since I need the AOO's to TWF+rend per AOO)

Cheers.


Hi,

I've playtested a Samurai build and I like the class alot.

Just wondered on others opinions about the 'selfishness' of the class.
We'll it's not selfish, but compared to the cavalier the flavor is totally different.

The cavalier is kinda like Maximus- a great warrior but a better General. I've played an Order of the shield cavalier to great effect and besides the challenge mechanic, I think tactician is the primary ability. Keep in mind I play in a group of 6.

Granting Powerful Teamwork feats to allies makes cavalier a frontline buffer! Now the flavor changes from order to order, but tactician is amongst them all.

Enter the Samurai.

Sung:
Challenge 1/day, Mount, Resolve, Wpn Fcs: Katana, Power Attack, Intimidating Prowess, Point Blank Shot
Honour in all things
Weapon Expertise (Kantana), Dazzling Display
Challenge 2/day, Mounted Archer
Banner, Wpn Spl: Katana
Shatter Defenses
Challenge 3/day, Conrugan Smash
Way of the Samurai
Gtr Resolve, Gtr Wpn Focus
Challenge 4/day
Honourable Stand, Deadly Stroke
Critical Focus
Challenge 5/day, Staggering Critical
Gtr Banner
Strike True, Blinding Critical
Challenge 6/day
True Resolve, Rapidshot
Manyshot
Challenge 7/day, Deadly Aim
Last Stand

Now I LIKE the lack of Tactician here. Access to the Fighter Wpn Feats makes it possible to really create the Swordmaster stereotype I love about samarai. Deadly Stroke (which no other cavalier can take) is kinda like the master draw and strike (not sure of the spelling) Ijatsu. A samurai SHOULD be a better swordsmen than a Cavalier.

My take is that a Knight/Cavalier is more concerned with Leadership than a Samurai who'd be more interested in Martial Perfection. Of course mine is not the only interpretation.

Overall the power =/=. A cavalier is a party buffer, but a Samurai is far less likely to fall.


Hi,

just re-reading the witch familiar spells sidebar.

It says a familiar can learn spells from another familiar.
Now I'm guessing RAI means they can learn other spells off the witch list. But I only says learn spells.

Does this mean a familiar (trickery patron) could learn Divine Power from a strength patron familiar?

This would be awesome for witches in general. Huge incentive to share patron spells (as they are some of the best on the list)


Hi,

Was really inspired by the DA2 video and wanted to make that char (optimised of course)

Now I'm trying to make a Arcane Warrior type with kick ass melee.
I figured a witch with the Strength Patron because:
1.He heals himself in the fight with no item, I figured HEALING HEX.
2.That list gives me Divine Favor which I can quicken reasonably early)

House rules: 2 Flaws are allowed (I took Shaky,Murky Eyed) for 2 extra 1st level feats.
Ability scores- chose whatever you like as long as total modifiers equlal 8, you are only allowed 1 negative mod, no more than -1.

I came up with

Build:
Build: Weapon Master 3/Witch7/EK 10
Race: Alignment: Chaotic Good
Theme- Battlemage
Race: Elf (Dreamspeaker racial trait +1DC to div and sleep effects, +2 will, Favored class: witch hp)
Ability Scores:
STR 17 (18)
DEX 13 (14)
CON 15
INT 19 (21)
WIS 10
CHA 9
Skills= 7 skill points per level
2 Flaws- Murky Eyed, Shakey
2 traits- Magical Knack, Desperate Focus

WpnM1 Wpn Fcs: Elven Curve Blade, Stepup, Following Step, Power Attack
Witch1 Cantrips, Familiar, Slumber Hex
Witch2 Healing Hex, Combat Casting
MpnM2 Wpn Guard 1, Arcane Armor Training
Witch3 Arcane Strike
WpnM3 Wpn Training 1
Witch4 Flight Hex, Ability Fcs
Witch5
Witch6 Tongues Hex, Stepup and Strike
EK1 Wpn Specialization
EK2 Melee Wpn Mastery
EK3
EK4 Quicken Spell
EK5 Gtr Wpn Fcs
EK6 Dazing Assault
EK7
EK8 Lunge
EK9 Gtr Wpn Spl
EK10 Selective Spell
Witch7

Attack/Damage/Sleep Hex:
Your attack at 20 is 16 +4(gtr wpn fcs, mastery) +5(enhancement)+ 3(belt of physical perfection) +5(18str, +2Tome)+ 3(Wpn Training/Duelist Gloves)- 5(PA)= 31/26/21/16

Damage with a +5 Menacing, Sonic, Keen, Ghost Touch Longsword is
D10 +12(1.5 x str w/belt)+15(PA)+ 6(wpn spl, mastery)+5(enhancement)+1d6(sonic) +4 arcane strike+3(Weapon Training/Duelist Gloves)= av 55 per strike

Sleep Hex DC= 10 +3 (1/2 witch levels)+1(Dreamspeaker racial)+11 (21 INT,+5 Tome, +6Headband)+Ability Focus= 27

Now I think it needs a little tweaking.
Gtr Wpn Spl could probably go. +2 Damage when you're doing over 50 per strike ain't much and it comes late. It has to be a combat feat

I'm not sure if my hexes are optimal. I chose them because the whole cackle thing wastes actions on a melee dude and evil eye/misfortune hex dc would suck with only 7witch levels. I tried to pump slumber cause it's an awesome hex, I hope I got the DC high enough, (at least on melee brutes)

3.5 feats are allowed (nothing broken)

Ends up with 8th level casting 18CL which I'm happy with.
I'm looking mostly for awesome witch spells to synergise here (spell list is a little limited)
Obviously the plan is to B/C a bit, then quicken a divine power and go kick a$$.

Help please.


Just curious as to what people prefer and why.

I've trialled magus and while it's action economy is great it's really struggling to go it's job on a full attack (spellstrike is great on the other hand)

Weapon Master 3/Diviner7/EK10 is allota fun and is the best balanced fighty/magic powerhouse I've done. 16 BAB, wpntrain 1 (w/duelist gloves) and 16CL (18 with a trait) casting the wizard list in mithral Breastplate is awesome. BAB is the same as straight cleric till 17 when you finally overtake him. Doesn't suck after level 3. Leans a little more on the caster side.

In an undead/evil outsider campaign a Cleric of Imodae 8(Glory-Heroism and Good-Archon domains)HV10/Cleric 2 Rocks awesome. 17 BAB, bloody hard to hit, 9th level spells, swift party heroism, standard action aura of wrath and stigmata is a WHOLE lotta fun. Go play at the world wound for awesome. Half-elf racial falcata proficiency makes divine retribution rock!

Inquisitor so really easy to do well. It's almost sad. His blasty, save or lose list hurts a touch (cause the better ones are at higher levels) but his Kick ass judgement gets you into the fight quicker than any hybrid. I like this guy for the dragonage to video (wield a spear). Cool points.

Best benefit for party has gotta be a half-elf kopesh wielding tripmonkey Arcane Duelist. All the anti-caster feats for free! Penetrating strike (does HEAPS for your dpr at high levels) Spell list is a bit sucky, if you want anything besides enchantment. Good Hope is awesome.

Buuuut My favorite selfish melee muncher has gott be a straight Cleric of Gorum with Blood and Rage subdomains. Take Reckless Abandon as a rage power and use a furious weapon, quicken a Divine Power and you got a can of whoop ass right there. Makes casting in combat hard but that's what moment of clarity is for. A dude for prays for a wounding Greatsword CAN'T be right in the head.
'For our Lord In Iron! Yar!'

;)


Hi,

just wondering what other people's experience is across the board with ranking thier melee chars.

Our group has found that pretty much the other melee classes-
Ranger
Cavalier
Paladin

can only outdamage an equivalent fighter when using thier 'special kick ass' ability.

EG a smite, FE or Instant Enemy or Challange.

This rings true even comparing TWF (vs a Two weapon warrior) or Two Handing (vs Two Handed Fighter).

This is because a Fighter's Wpn Training and feats bring him up to damage levels nearly par with the others.

+8 to hit and +10 to damage between feats, gloves and wpn training he's too awesome.

Cha 16 Paladin with +6 Headband
+6 to hit with +20 damage

Ranger spamming instant enemy and putting all bonuses into 1 FE
+10 to hit and damage

Cavalier (depending on order)
0 or +5 to hit (if order of the shield)
+20 damage.

The cavavlier and Pally get more damage bonus but the fighter's iteratives hit more. Whatsmore things like Overhand Chop/Backswing or Equal Oppourtunity does heaps to erase any advantage they have in real play.

The Ranger can outdo fighter for to hit and equal damage BUUT doing so means he's relying on spells and pearls to beable to use that bonus against any but his FE. So he's equal but with much more limited targets.

Barbarnians in core never got close but with the event of APG, if they take Reckless abandon, Witchunter they actually exceed thier to hit but are behind on damage per strike.

+12 to hit -Mighty Rage, Furious wpn, reckless abandon
+10 to damage- Mighty rage, witchunter.

(same damage bonus as core fighter, but two handed fighter overhand chop, backswing, gtr power attack puts him in front)

Basically, this is a pat on the back for Paizo.
Fighter- Kicks Ass! All day long.

(I guess this is just illustrating that, besides corner cases or cheese, from a DPR prospect thier is no reason NOT to play a fighter)

The other classes rock for flavor and still work well. (Cavalier is my favorite to the whole 'Battle Commander' bit)

Anyone else's experience differ?

Cheers.


Description says all flanking allies bonus increases by +2.

Does that include the wielder (if he is flanking as well)?


Hi,

Not seeing how the ninja is overpowered. More mobile? Yes, Harder to hit? yes, better DPR? not really.

Not that Pure DPR is a total measure of usefulness but the ninja doesn't seem to have a massive advantage over the rogue here:

Human- for Extra talent favored ability Or
Half- Elf with ancestral weapon: Curve blade and skill fcs:intimidate and racial +2 vs enchantment
or
Half Orc for falchion and intimidating and darkvision

In any point buy, dump Int to 7 and cha to 7. You're a killer, not a face.
You'll still get 6 or 7 skill points.
Max STR to 19 (17+2) at level 1, get a decent dex and con.

Have the Birth Mark trait.

Rogue (scout)
1 SA 1d6, Trapfinding, Martial Weapon Prof: Longsword, Intimidating Prowess
2 Wpn Fcs: Longsword, Evasion
3 SA 2d6, Trap Sense +1, Power Attack
4 Dazzling Display, Scout’s Charge
5 SA 3d6, Furious Focus
6 Trap Sense +2, Slow Reactions, Human Favored- Fast stealth
7 SA 4d6, Conrugan Smash
8 Offensive Defense, Skirmisher
9 SA 5d6, Trap Sense +3, Shatter Defenses
10 Opportunist
11 SA 6d6, Cleave or Outflank
12 Slippery Mind, trap sense +4, Human Favored-Trapspotter
13 SA 7d6, Extra Talent: Crippling Strike
14 Resiliency
15 SA 8d6, Trap Sense +5, Extra Talent: Hunter’s Surprise
16 Assault Leader
17 SA 9d6, Blindfight
18 Another Day, Trap Sense +6, Defensive Roll
19 SA 10d6, Shadow Strike
20 Redirect Attack, Master Strike

The main enchantment on your weapon you need is Subtle. Adds +4 to hit and damage on a SA.

This guy auto SA's on a charge or any move over 10ft. (+2 for charging, +4 for subtle, Furious Focus means no PA penalty)

Any power attack that hits (with furious focus likely nearly always) auto triggers an intimidate (with around a +6 or +7 feat bonus depending on Skill focus or Intimidating Prowess)

The now shaken enemy is flat footed to you (auto SA with constant +4 from subtle) for at least a round. Further PA hits trigger a new check to keep the condition going for a few rounds...

For those enemies that will be immune to Intimidate: Hunter's suprise.

Has pretty good AC: Offensive Defence + Chain shirt, dex and the rest (around 40 or more with the SA AC bonus)

My point here is while the Ninja May be able to do this build. he's have no room for the supernatural stuff, which seems to be the reason people want to take the class...


Am i readingthis right?

You gain a dodge bonus equal to the SA dice rolled on a SA.

WTF- Now if it was for 1round (which) i assume it is, tha'd be cool.
Hit a guy for 10d6, get +10 to ACtion for one round.

BUUUTT..
Dodge bonuses stack.
With a flank and subtle Shortswords I can hit at LEAST two or 3 times (more with Outflank and a buddy with a menacing weapon) on a TWF build.

The AC's would be rediculous.


Hi,

Been PLaytesting this for awhile now.

Thought I'd post some thoughts.

Magus is a Very Fun Glass Cannon.

This stems from a few things

1. Handed weapon use when using spell combat-
The PA damage from 1handed sucks and the -2 to attack with spell combat blows. This neccesitates either a STR build or a Dervish Dance Dex Build.

These problems mean you need an insane STR to actually to decent damage with your attacks.

2. Spell Strike rocks awesome- Most classes can only standard attack on a move. Magus on the other hand can cast a touch spell with a standard action attack and strike with his weapon to deliver it.
So moving in Combat is a strength of the Magus because he can attack 2 handed for better PA and lay a No Save Vampiric touch on the spell, for example.

3. Magus is MAD. Most of the Magus's spells being blasts allow saves. Saves means high INT. The -2 to hit needs high STR. Being in Melee regularly requires Dex and Con.

4. Races- Best races for this class appear to be:
1st Elf ( for the free +2 Int, Dex and +2 vs SR, +2 Perception and saves vs Enchantment)
Half Elf (For ancestral arms- Bastard Sword or Falcata and Arcane Training Racial Trait, +2 ANY ability score, Perception and saves vs Enchantment)
Human- free feat, extra skill points, +2 any score

Splitting hairs here,
the Human extra Skill point here is not worth much since the class has high int anyway. A human could take Spell pen but the elf essentially gets it for free. The Half-Elf can get a free EXP at first level (racial) so the +2 Elves and Half- Elves get to perception and saves vs Enchantment put them above human for me.

Buff Magus:
PFS Build Favored Class- Magus (hit points)
STR 17 (22 all points to STR, +6 Belt of Phys Perfection= 28STR)
DEX 10 (+6 Belt of Phys Perfection)
CON 15 (+6 Belt of Phys Perfection)
WIS 10 (+2 vs enchantment racial-Elf, Half Elf)
INT 17 (Final Score 28 from a +5 tome and +6 Headband)
CHA 8

Traits- Focused Mind- +2 Concentration, Ancestral Weapon- free masterwork and +1 to Attack with that wpn

Note the Above scores are Possible on a 25pt Buy for either
Human, Elf or Half Elf

I Chose elf over half Elf for the +2 to SR, better than EXP Bastard Sword or Falcata (but only just) then I did my first playtest at level 10 and found hitting to be hard- so I rebuilt as a human and took the extra feat to get an early Gangup and free up room for an Improved Familiar.

My build will be relying on blasting for damage and an average +1pt damage is not great in the long run. I wield a longsword.

Focused Mind helps with those concentration checks (which hopefully you don't take often because you're 5ft stepping away)

Ancestral Weapon- Our DM doesn't go out of his way to destroy weapon. But we play AP's so if a given foe likes to sunder he'll do it. Really nice and needed at low levels. Doesn't matter so much later.

My level Breakdown:

1 Arcane Pool +1, Cantrips, Spell Combat, Combat Expertise, Gangup
2 Spellstrike
3 Magus Arcana (Arcane Accuracy), Weapon Fcs: Longsword
4 Pool Spell
5 Arcane Pool +2, Power Attack, Extra Arcana: Shield
6 Magus Arcana (Familiar)
7 Knowledge Pool, Medium Armor, Improved Familiar: Mephit
8 Improved Spell Combat
9 Arcane Pool +3, Magus Arcana (Empower Spell), Intensify Spell
10 Fighter Training
11 Weapon Specialisation, Improved Pool Spell, Persistent Spell
12 Magus Arcana (Maximised Magic)
13 Arcane Pool +4, Heavy Armor, Selective Spell
14 Gtr Spell Combat
15 Magus Arcana (Quickened Magic), Maximise Spell
16 Counterstrike
17 Arcane Pool +5, Gtr Weapon Focus, Spell Perfection (Cone of Cold)
18 Magus Arcana (Wand Wielder)
19 Gtr Pool Spell, Spell Fcs: Evocation
20 True Magus

Now- I've tried the Magus in a few different groups.
How easy it is in Combat depends upon your melee buddies.

I found if Paired with a fighter and Rogue you feel out done.

Till you get Vampiric Touch you fall behind on Spellstrike (because the rogue was a scout- auto SA when he charged and the Fighter was a Two Hander)

Full attacks are a little better, but you shouldn't measure your damage vs single targets as success. Dropping a slow spell+full attacking a mook provides party value. If you must fight 1 dude use Scorching Ray with your full attack. You're still gonna be behind the rogue and fighter. NOTE: when you guys can afford it, try to con the fighter into getting a Menacing Weapon, you and the rogue LOVE someone else having this enchantment.

If you are partnered with a Bard or a Cavalier using Tactician, life gets alot easier.
Free Outflank or Inspire Courage= Happy.

I'll post more later.


High- like this ability, thematic!

Is it too good?
Should ability focus be allowed?
Should a rogue be able to take it?

Pretty much makes the assasin PRC useless.


Hi,

have noted a fair bit on the wiz/sorc/witch advice threads everyone says displacement is a must.

Now I know the value of 50% miss chance but why no love for blacklight?

It's available 1 level lower grants 50% miss to anyone who enters the field (which they need to do to attack you) they get no save vs being blind in the field (the save only works if you cast it AT someone)

Cast this on your staff or something you carry. 50% miss PLUS blind and flatfooted if an enemy comes at you.

Better.


Hi,

heard tell of a feat that lets fighter/rogue levels stack with regards to sneak attack.

Anyone know which book it's in (3.5 source)?

THX


Bump.

No feat suggestions? I think once I get a dex item, combat reflexes would be good.

I don't often play reach builds, so I'm not sure how to fullymax it.


Hi,

I'm seeing alot of this iconic in the concept art (even him in the class pdf)

Is he gonna get a proper rewrite- his backstory is currently written for a Eldritch Knight.

Plus he needs some better gear. His ac sucks.


Hi,

just wondering how we're mainly gonna play this guy (vs others interpretation)

I've been trying to use him as a striker/controller.

Basically at each level we've tried, we worked out his to hit is ok

(thanks arcane pool- this ability does nothing for your to hit at high levels when you get a maxed encanted weapon, except for swapping enchantments)

but without spell combat/spellstrike his damage sucks. with it he is quite good.

So, Basically I use spell combat EVERY time I can full attack (spont casting if I run out of prepped)

I use spellstrike everytime I move (spont casting if I run out of prepped)

I also spamm Arcane Accuracy on all full attacks, will use Arcane Shield when the bad guy's first iterative of a full attack hits me (if he misses with the first I don't use it as the likely hood of the others hitting is much lower)

In straight NOVA arena battles I'm lasting 3 ish.

In a proper adventuring day (which adds out of combat castings, I've been playing as a magical scout/backup utility caster) I'm reduced to about 2 combats.

I may be novaing too much.
Using Calcific touch (spell blending) really saves on castings as I can use it for multiple rounds of full attacks.

Compared to a Fighter I am Nearly as good vs a single target (till my spells/pool runs out) then I suck.
Vs alot of mooks I rock hard. Spell Combat plus area spell rulz.
Obviously I am more mobile.
I don't need to be as sticky as a fighter (saving the step up line which most of our group melleer's take) because of spellstrike.

What's your preffered method/optimal view of magus tactics?


Hi,

Just looking at this and wondering if I'm smelling cheese.

While this enchantment is a massive boon to monks (who CAN IMHO be great but only with a high point buy or 4d6 drop low. Build as Treantmonk's guide)...

I can't help but think this may be too good for Clerics, Druids and maybe even Rangers.

Mostly because of the caster vs melee argument.

Melee'rs do damage and they do it in spades. I am happy for this, and I like it to be thier thing vs Mr Casty guy.

Buuuutt. Clerics and Druids (buffed or wildshaped) can already do NEARLY as much damage with some prep.

I try to optimise all my builds and when I bother to do the ol lvl 20 comparisions Most of my Fighters/Rogues do around 200 to 300 damage on a full attack with only BOS using insta-haste.

Rangers, Paladins, Cavaliers tend to do the same 2 or 300 numbers against smite, FE or Challenge and around 140-160 against a non-special foe.

Barbarians (I have stuck to pounce/witchunter builds) tend to do about solid 200s on either a pounce OR Full attack.

Now all these builds use STR as their primary stat with important secondary scores.

If I wanna make a cleric/bard/druid approach these numbers I need to also emphasise STR but keep a Primary Casting Stat.

I am able to gey my cleric/bard/druid doing around 180 to 200 with an average 1rd prep eg Divine Power+ Quickend Buff or Inspire Courage+Good Hope etc.

Now by doing this I hurt my casting stat on a point buy to have a decent STR. Planning on using a Guided Weapon makes a Cleric/Druid single stat dependent for melee as well as casting.

Haven't run the numbers yet but It probably means another +5 or +6 (with Wis item) to hit and damage (meaning that 3rd iterative will hit alot more)

The optimiser in me screams 'use it' but I think this may encroach on the melee'rs turf too much?
Weather or not these numbers are unimpressive to you I don't know but it's the averages I get (I may be in some opinions 'doing it wrong')

Comments?


Why take Outflank when there is menacing enchantment?

The Wpn is cheap, benefits everybody's to hitand doesn't need you or other party members to burn feats.


uHi,

Starting this one to build a list of options for locking down and opponent. There seems to be a misconception among some people that melee classes can't protect their allies. I won't know all of them so any I miss, it would be great if people could add to the list. Comments on frequency of use/effectiveness and reliability would be good.

Feats:
Tripping- probably best option below 13. After that not as effective since flight is common- you can prolong it's effectiveness if enlarged. Best bit is you can do it as part of a full attack. Best on a fighter.

Grappling- works well, best on a monk.

Overun- pretty effective at lower levels for any mounted build, since you can knock them prone. The mount takes the feats not you. Works better with charge through. Best for a Mounted Fury Barb, Horselord Ranger or A Cavalier.

Standstill- decent feat that allows you to stop movement on AOO, downside it's a CM that gets let's effective as you level

Staggering Critical- Great effect. Lasts rounds. Downside is it relies on a critical. Best on Scimitar/kukri duel wielders.

Stunning Critical- better effect but requires too many preqs. Best for high critical fighters with spare feats.

Dazing Assault- full of sex and win for any full bab class. Only PA preq (which you took anyway) Decent fort save, lasts 1 round. On a high DPR build this is great. Best for Fighters, Rangers with FE, Smiting Paladins or Challenging Cavalier's. Hit a Caster with this and he's gonna be dead real quick- works on undead too. Fighters should reform for Stunning Assault at 16.

Stepup, Following Step, Stepup and Strike- Not a lockdown feat but allows a melee char to get sticky if opponent moves. Very good but you need enough feats. Best for Fighters, Rangers, Monks, Cavalier's and Arcane Duelists.

Disruptive, Spellbreaker, Teleport Tactician- Only accessable to fighters and Arcane Duelists (who get it for free). Again not lockdown but awesome with Stepup line. The real strength of.these 2 feat chains is the extra AOO's and full attacks. They give you more chances to Dazing Assault the enemy. A fighter or Arcane Duelist with all 7 feats gets at least 2 or 3 chances to daze a creture in one round.

Class features- Mighty Charge- 11th level cavalier ability that letsyou throw a CM on a charge attack, Use trip.

OOTShield cavaliers get a better version of Standstill which resolves as an attack and does damage as well as stopping the opponent. Very Good ability.

Spells- Challenge Evil- Paladin spell that forces a foe to fight you. The will save is ok, but at higher levels, just using Dazing assault is better.

That will do for now. Back Later.


uHi,

Starting this one to build a list of options for locking down and opponent. There seems to be a misconception among some people that melee classes can't protect their allies. I won't know all of them so any I miss, it would be great if people could add to the list. Comments on frequency of use/effectiveness and reliability would be good.

Feats:
Tripping- probably best option below 13. After that not as effective since flight is common- you can prolong it's effectiveness if enlarged. Best bit is you can do it as part of a full attack. Best on a fighter.

Grappling- works well, best on a monk.

Overun- pretty effective at lower levels for any mounted build, since you can knock them prone. The mount takes the feats not you. Works better with charge through. Best for a Mounted Fury Barb, Horselord Ranger or A Cavalier.

Standstill- decent feat that allows you to stop movement on AOO, downside it's a CM that gets let's effective as you level

Staggering Critical- Great effect. Lasts rounds. Downside is it relies on a critical. Best on Scimitar/kukri duel wielders.

Stunning Critical- better effect but requires too many preqs. Best for high critical fighters with spare feats.

Dazing Assault- full of sex and win for any full bab class. Only PA preq (which you took anyway) Decent fort save, lasts 1 round. On a high DPR build this is great. Best for Fighters, Rangers with FE, Smiting Paladins or Challenging Cavalier's. Hit a Caster with this and he's gonna be dead real quick- works on undead too. Fighters should reform for Stunning Assault at 16.

Stepup, Following Step, Stepup and Strike- Not a lockdown feat but allows a melee char to get sticky if opponent moves. Very good but you need enough feats. Best for Fighters, Rangers, Monks, Cavalier's and Arcane Duelists.

Disruptive, Spellbreaker, Teleport Tactician- Only accessable to fighters and Arcane Duelists (who get it for free). Again not lockdown but awesome with Stepup line. The real strength of.these 2 feat chains is the extra AOO's and full attacks. They give you more chances to Dazing Assault the enemy. A fighter or Arcane Duelist with all 7 feats gets at least 2 or 3 chances to daze a creture in one round.

Class features- Mighty Charge- 11th level cavalier ability that letsyou throw a CM on a charge attack, Use trip.

OOTShield cavaliers get a better version of Standstill which resolves as an attack and does damage as well as stopping the opponent. Very Good ability.

Spells- Challenge Evil- Paladin spell that forces a foe to fight you. The will save is ok, but at higher levels, just using Dazing assault is better.

That will do for now. Back Later.


Hi,

just discovered these from another thread (Shoulda checked my magic item section in APG earlier)

Part of the description for dueling gloves says a fighter treats his weapon training as +2 higher. Awesome.

Strictly RAW though, only Core Fighters, Two Handed Fighters and Weapon Masters could use this as other archetypes don't get 'weapon training'

Example an Archer gets Expert Archer
A Free Hand Fighter gets Singletion
A Two Weapon Warrior gets Twin Blades

They have a different name, but have the same effects as weapon training, at the same levels.

Would you say RAI that you could allow Dueling Gloves to work for them?


Hi,

Just Undecided on my last 3 feats from a ranger build. Went with a TWF (using instant enemy spells to get FE on who I want)
I went with +8 for evil outsiders (so as to get a bigger bonus on Instant Enemy)

Ranger 20:
1-Favored Enemy 1, Track, Wild Empathy, Wpn Fcs: Shortsword, TWF, Stepup, Power Attack
2-Double Slice
3-Endurance, Favored Terrain 1 (forest), Following Step
4-Hunter's Bond (Wolf)
5-Favored Enemy 2, Bonded Companion
6-ITWF
7-Woodland Stride, Two Weapon Pounce
8-Swift Tracker, Favored Terrain 2 (underground)
9-Evasion, Craft Wand
10-Favored Enemy 3, Two Weapon Rend
11-Quarry, Dazing Assault
12-Camouflage
13-3rd Favored Terrain (urban), Favored Defense
14-Gtr Two Weapon Fighting
15-Favored Enemy 4, Feat
16-Improved Evasion
17-Hide in Plain Sight, Feat
18-Favored Terrain 4 (mountains), Two Weapon Defense
19-Improved Quarry, Feat
20-Favored Enemy 5, Master Hunter
.

3.5 is allowed but no OMG cheese.
I would prefer core....

Thought about PBS, Rapid Shot, Deadly Aim but should be able to fly at these levels.

Maybe Combat Reflexes, Rolibar's Gambit and Step up and Strike?
Like I said I'd prefer core If there's a good combo I've not seen.

PS: yes I know there's 2 too many feats at 1st level. We allow falws. Cheers.


Hi,

am wondering if you can use your quarry ability on a target you just cast instant enemy on. Also favored defense.

If so this would REALLY make it optimal for rangers to put alot of FE on one enemy.
Say +8 vs evil outsiders.

For example, You could see an enemy taiga giant.
Swift Cast Instant Enemy, then use Quarry as a standard action and remark at the pretty skirt he's wearing.

Giant charges you and you now treat him as an evil outsider (+8 to hit/damage)

If quarry works that +8 became a +10 and you get +4 to CMD and AC vs the giant thanks to favored defense?

Cheers.


Well, I know it's only been 6 hours but I hope the lack of replies means that my interpretation is correct.


Hi, guys

I finished the 'God' Sorc build I was working on recently.

Aden Stargazer:
Build: Arcane Bloodline Sorcerer20
Race: Human Alignment: Neutral
Theme- Blaster, Debuffer, Buffer, Summoner
Ability Scores:
STR 10
DEX 17 (18)
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 8
CHA 20 (24)
Favored Class: Sorc, use extra spells option
2 traits- Desperate Focus
Benefit: You gain a +2 trait bonus on concentration checks.
Birthmark- +2 Trait bonus to saves vs Charm and Compulsion effects.

Feats/Class Abilities:

1. Bloodline Arcana- +1 DC on metamagic spells), Bloodline Power- Arcane Bond, Cantrips, Eschew Materials, Spellcasting Prodigy, Heighten Spell
2.
3. Metamagic Adept 1/day, Blood Spell, Elemental Spell
4.
5. Blood Spell, Craft Wand
6.
7. Metamagic Adept 2/day, Blood Feat- Spell Fcs: Conjuration, Blood Spell, Quicken Spell
8.
9. Blood Spell, New Arcana (4th) Expanded Arcana
10.
11. Metamagic Adept 3/day, Blood Spell, Expanded Arcana
12.
13. Blood Feat- Still spell, New Arcana (6th), Blood Spell, Expanded Arcana
14.
15. Metamagic Adept 4/day, Spell Power+2 Conjuration, Blood Spell, Selective Spell
16.
17. New Arcana (8th), Blood Spell, Empower Spell
18.
19. Metamagic Adept 5/day, Blood Feat- Improved Initiative, Blood Spell, Expanded Arcana
20. Arcane Apothesis

Obviously there were a couple of 3.5 feats in there (GM approved)

Need help with 2 things. But first:

Backstory:
Aden was born into magic. The 6th generation in a line of wizards, he was Raised among the grand experiment in Hermea. Schooled from a young age in the ways of magic by his father (a Powerful Diviner to whom the offer to live there was extended when aden was 6) Aden showed magical potential but NOT the sought his father wanted. The boy only showed average intelligence and while his understanding of magic was intuitive, he could never 'see the math' behind casting. Aden's father new what he was a was ashamed. As his only son, this boy had the gift but not the mind capable of study, this meant that the proud tradition the Stargazer name was BUILT on would likely die with Aden. Sorcerer's cannot be taught and thus cannot teach.

Aden was made to feel ashamed of his failings. Ones he couldn't see. After all he COULD do magic and his range was quite broad. Why did it matter that he couldn't get the WHY of it? He even managed to form an arcane bond just like his father, but it wasn't good enough his efforts never were.

"What are you going to do when 'x' scenario occurs?' Preparation is EVERYTHING! how can you hope to deal with the unkown if you cannot adapt."
It was a litany he'd heard hundreds of times and eventually he grew sick of it. Aden left as soon as he could. Determined to discover enough magic for himself that he could overcome any obstacle, and eventually he'd show his father REAL flexibility.

Despite his hatred of his wizardly upbringing. Aden tries to be a wizard, tells people he is a wizard. Wishes he was a wizard.

Now my questions are about arcane bond and spell selection.

1. I'm really stuck for this. Mostly because I LIKE the idea of either.
A staff could be enchanted as a weapon/staff without costing a feat.
Can be swapped out for a different staff should I find one.
Gives an extra casting of any of my top level spells.

I'm thinking a 'Raistalin and his Staff' kinda char. The staff is a symbol of a wizards power (and Aden on some levels tries to be like a wizard), negatives- losing it sucks hard!

2. Familiar- this could also be cool. I'm thinking Raven (cause it can talk), more a flavor tool than a power one, but I figure a raven could make a good outdoor spy. Fly above the field, scout ahead and report back. Plus I know how our DM plays, most creatures don't take notice of the local birds (not planning on using it for combat)

Lastly Spell Selection. This is REALLY hard. Mostly because when I've previously played a Sorcerer I had to go the hyper-specialist role.

NOW, with APG benefits I have alot of spells known
exactly:
12 cantrips
7 1st level spells
7 2nd level spells
8 3rd level spells
9 4th level spells
8 5th level spells
6 6th level spells
7 7th level spells
5 8th level spells
3 9th level spells

*In addition to bloodline spells*
Now I focused on conjuration and necromancy. What I want for the spellist is:
Conjuration for Battle Control and blast spells
A few choice buffs (party,self)
But most of all: PROBLEM SOLVING SPELLS- this guys wants to come off as a wizard!!!
Sources allowed are PFRPG Handbook, APG, Spell Compendium

My Rough List:

0- (12) Spark, Detect Poison, Acid Splash, Detect Magic, Read Magic, Light, Mage Hand, Message, Daze, Ghost Sound, Prestidigiation, Open/Close

1-(7)Identify, Enlarge Person, Feather fall, Nerveskitter, Protection against Evil, Benign Transposition, Colour Spray (swap for Comprehend Languages), Mage Armor (swap for Deep Breath)

2-(7)Invisibility, Ghoul Touch, Detect Thoughts, Mirror Image, Scorching Ray, Glitterdust, Stone Call, Rope Trick

3-(8)Dispel Magic, Blacklight, Fly, Haste, Spiked Pit, Water Breathing, Draconic Reservoir, Ice Lance (swap for Mass Curse of Impending Blades), Spell

4-(9)Dimension Door, Resiliant Sphere, Stoneskin, Death ward, Mass Resist Energy, Enervation, Scrying (swap for Attune Form), Dragon's Breath, Black Tentacles, Orb of Fire

5-(8)Overland Flight, Mass Fire Shield, Feeblemind, Teleport, Wall of Stone, Lesser Planar Binding (swap for Telekinesis), Hungry Pit, Life Bubble, Dominate Person

6-(6) True Seeing, Stone Body, Fleshiver, Gtr Dispel Magic, Planar Bind (swap for Flesh to Stone), Chain Lightning, Spell

7-(5) Gtr Teleport, Reverse Gravity, Project Image, Brilliant Aura, Firebrand, Waves of Exhaustion, Plane Shift, Mass Planar Adaption

8-(7)Power Word Stun, Gtr Planar Bind, Prismatic Wall, Mind Blank, Clone, Discern Location

9-(3)Wish, Maw of Chaos, Time Stop, Energy Drain

Keeping in mind this guy wants to fuction as a wizard (hence the mix of blast, B/C, debuff, utility, planar travel)

does this list achieve it well?
I still have an open 3rd and 6th level slot, and I'm willing to swap if there are any crappy spells.


Hi,

I'm rolling up a human arcane bloodline sorcerer and gonna take the extra spells favored class option from APG. Concept is a son of a famous wizard prodigy, who's dad is ashamed his son is a 'slow learner'. Boy wants to show dad he's every bit the wizard he is. DM said he likes the idea and will probably have em spell dual a couple of times as the story develops.
Playing in COTCT AP.

So main priorities are:
1.Filling a god wizards role (thought he'd learn shadow evocation/conjuration and Gtr versions to expand range)
Remember he gets a lot of extra spells known.

2. Being able to down other casters-fast.

Need help with feats and spells.
Feat wise i figured pump illusion spell saves high since he'll likely be mimicking two schools, also party will expect craft weapons/armour and wonderous items.

Spells- need to balance power (my normal spells) and versatility (favored bonus spells)

All PF sources allowed

Cheers


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Hi, I rebuilt my TWF’er and 2Handed Fighters when the APG came out. Everyone that dissed fighter’s on the board’s mainly hated on melee because it doesn’t reduce an enemies effectiveness only HP. These 2 feats have been just so much awesome.
Now barring terrain or Caster’s using magic to keep away (problems usually solved by boots of flying.) combat rounds in our games have changed.

It used to be:
Fighter charges and hits, enemy takes damage- melee enemy hits back uses Combat Maneuver. Caster either DD away further than fighter’s speed so he can cast while Fighter has to run to close or 5ft steps and casts a B/C or will save or lose (possibly eating an AOO if fighter has step up, maybe 2 if he has stepup and strike), which fighter may miss if caster has Displacement or Mirror Image up already (they usually do since most Wiz BBEG has early warning)

Point is The Fighter nearly always eats a spell, maybe loses vs will or a smart Wiz/Sorc will use early wall of force to get heaps of Buffs up then fighter can win vs fully buffed caster. Fighter is reliant on Party Wiz/Cleric to make with the B/C’s or Debuffs to let him kill it.

Now, our groups fighters in similar circumstances are Charging in with Dazing/Stunning Assault (Their Gtr Wpn Fcs and Wpn Training means they can take the attack penalty). Now a Non Casting Melee monster will probably save (and they prefer melee anyway) so the fighter won’t use it. But vs those god wizards (so long as they hit- Blindfight is a good investment) they fail their save- skip a turn. Fighter leaves Dazing Assault on and full attacks hapless caster. Caster Dies.

Now I’m not saying it works all the time, but I’ve noted it happening quite a bit so it seems quite good. Not available till level 13, about the time casters start to become ‘God’. Better than the Crit feats, they don’t require a dead feat and they’re either ON/OFF as the fighter wants.

Have other people noted the same?


Hi,

Since switching to PF our group has maintained a 3.5 compatible game. To the extent where we still use flaws (2 each), ALL 3.5 books are allowed (TOB feats are allowed but not TOB classes.

Now I’ve noted (in our games) that for the most part Casters stick to straight Pathfinder, without multiclassing and using only Core and APG feats. Spell Compendium is about the only resource our Casters make use of. It seems to mostly be Sorcerers, Oracles looking for versatile spells useful for different applications eg Pancea or Mass Fire shield or Wrathful Castigation. Rangers use it (Rhino rush, Mark or the Hunter, Hunter’s eye)
And Paladins (Knights Move)

Our prepared casters barely use it as they can cover most circumstances with a little prep for the right core solution.

Now out Melee classes in terms of feats use 3.5 a lot more with all of my own or my buddies melee builds making use of feats from Complete warrior, adventurer, PHB2, TOB (usually for martial stance, study or things like Melee Weapon Mastery) we do this because when we tried core only (when we first made the switch) we found Casters still owning the game past the mid levels. This only really occurred when we did one on one encounters vs CR opponents (which occur a lot in our games, our DM plays smart enemies as smart. They uses ambushes, attack during downtime, make use of terrain to separate us etc.) Now our casters rarely struggle in these scenario’s (contingency spells, teleport to run away, saving a spell before bed, etc. Our melee’rs had much more difficulty. Mostly because our casters generally have the rescources to avoid single encounters altogether, or outright win it with either a Save or Die, B/C control to get the job done, (how short or long it was depended on what was prepared).
The melee’rs have unique issues depending on class, issues that seem to be resolved by either using 3.5 or some APG options. Mostly because they usually can’t magically avoid encounters or simply negate them. Usually they have to fight and win.

EG our TWF ranger had damage issues against non FE and standard action attacks sucked. This was formerly resolved by using Two Weapon Pounce, Martial Study: Sudden Leap, Martial Stance: Blood in the Water, Duel wielding Kukri’s and using the Rhino Rush and Hunter’s eye spells. Now with Craft Wand and the Instant Enemy Spell he’s terrifying in Melee. With a Boon Companion wolf he’s got some B/C. Now he handles most one on one’s quite well.

The Fighter’s main weakness has never been damage but that his maneuver’s can be negated by size (can’t bulrush bigger than large) or mobility (can’t trip flyer’s) or Magic (hard to sunder magic weapons while your opponent eats your face). Caster’s are a huge issue (helped by Iron will and Step up line) and B/C’s that he can’t effect. Melee BBEG’s can generally outstrip his damage or succeed at Maneuver’s against him (due to size). This can be alleviated by feats like Combat Fcs (will +4), Combat Stability (+8 CMD), Combat Vigor (Fast Healing 4) or Melee Weapon Mastery, Slashing Flurry, Three Mountains etc. Kudos to APG for bringing us Dazing/Stunning Assault and the Fighter Archetypes.

Paladins don’t have to worry about saves but there mobility typically sucks. Swift action self healing at least means B/C spells are there main worries. If they can smite it’s already over and they can usually win a war of attrition HP and shrug off save of dies so unless walls of force are in use they often can survive long enough for the cavalry to come.

Rogue’s probably struggle the most since they are glass cannons, Staggering Strike (complete adventurer) and the Scout Variant coupled with Conrugan Smash, Shatter defenses takes care of solo damage. Their main weakness was their own lack of defenses. Escape is hard (since stealth requires ideal conditions), but thankfully most of these issues are mitigated by APG (thankyou for Vanish!)

From an Optimization point of view and I shudder to agree with him, I find myself on the side of Mister Green in saying that spells badly slew this game towards casters (at least without 3.5). Ultimate Magic is likely to exaggerate this problem (but I hope not).
Don’t get me wrong. We’re having a lot of fun and I’m not complaining. I LOVE PF and I mostly play Melee’rs because I like them. I just notice If I wanna PWN like the casters do I have to make use of the extra options 3.5 gives me.

I hope Ultimate Combat Makes it so I don’t have to (since I’d LIKE to use only PF material). Please Paizo guys take note that melee’rs (particularly fighters) need just a bit more love. Not much. More Feats as good as Dazing Assault. Things that let Melee’rs get around their pitfalls. An official TWP for rangers would be great. Special Moves like Martial Study, Martial Stance and the Combat Form feats. In short, Can we kick ‘Fighter Only Feats’ Up a Notch? They only get 11 of them so they should all be awesome to erase that spell advantage.

I know it’s too late to rename them fighter talents but notice that Rage Powers of Rogue talents are in quite a few examples better than a lot of feats? Optimise an APG Barbarian and you’ll likely find yourself taking Extra Rage Power more often than a normal feat.

Powers/Talents Like Reckless Abandon, Inspire Frenzy, Another Day, Major Magic, Come and Get Me are on another Level of Awesomeness than regular feats.

For those interested below is a Scary TWF build to highlight how 3.5 can make a PF Fighter on a similar level of awesome. Yes I know about the fighter vs a Balor thread and that is a wonderful Core build. I’d like to see it done with a melee build in core though.

TWF Killa!:
Name: Xavier Longsaddle
Build: Fighter 20 (Two Weapon Warrior)
Race: Human Alignment: Lawful Good
Ability Scores:
STR 19 (20)
DEX 17 (19)
CON 13 (14)
INT 13 (14)
WIS 13
CHA 9
Favored Class:Fighter (hit points)
Skills- Including Int, Human 5 per level
2 Flaws- – Honorable Challenge, Merciful
2 Traits- Suspicious- +1 to Sense Motive and it is always a class skill for you.
Birthmark- +2 Trait bonus to saves vs Charm and Compulsion effects.

Feats/special1Improved Trip, TWF, Weapon Fcs: Longsword, Weapon Fcs: Handaxe, Combat Expertise
2High sword, Low Axe
3Defensive Flurry +1, Double slice
4Gangup

5Twin Blades +1, Wpn Spl: Longsword

6Two weapon pounce
7Defensive Flurry +2, ITWF
8Melee Weapon Mastery (Slashing) (retrain TWP for Power Attack)
9Twin Blades +2, Double strike, Combat Focus
10Combat Reflexes
11Improved Balance (-1/-1), Defensive Flurry +3, Two Weapon Rend
12Rolibars Gambit (swap Gangup for Martial Stance: Leading the attack at lvl 12)
13Twin Blades +3, Equal Oppourtunity, Martial Stance: Martial Spirit
14Dazing Assault
15Perfect Balance (0/0), Defensive Flurry +4, Combat Vigor
16Gtr TWF, (retrain Dazing Assault for Stunning Assault)
17Twin Blades +4, Deft Double strike (immediate disarm/sunder when you hit with 2 weapons), Combat Strike
18Combat Stability
19Deadly Defense, Defensive Flurry +5, Blindfight
20Weapon Mastery, Combat Awareness (retrain Rolibar's Gambit for Gangup)

Attack/Damage
Taking weapon Training and full power attack into account Final Full Attack is
Primary Hand and off hand
BAB20 +3(Wpn Fcs, Mastery)+ 4(Twin Blades)+ 5(STR) +3(Belt of Physical Perfection) +5(wpn enhancement) -6(PA) 34/34/29/29/24/24/19 ave 5 hits (Hasted= 35/35/35/30/30/25/25/20 ave 6 hits) ON A Standard Action Attack is 30/30. (31/31 Hasted)
Hasted/Gangup 37/37/37/32/32/27/27/22 (ave 7 hits)

Damage Primary= +5, Shock, holy, keen, ghost touch longsword
D8+ 5(wpn enhance) +5(str) +3(belt of perfection) +4(feats) +4(Twin Blades)+1d6 (shock) +2d6(holy)+ 12(PA)= ave 40 on full attack, 46 if evil (Damage = 36 on standard action)

Damage Secondary= Damage Primary= +5, Frost, holy, keen, ghost touch Hand axe
D6+ 5(wpn enhance) +5(str) +3(belt of perfection) +2(feats) +4(Twin Blades)+1d6 (frost) +2d6(holy)+ 12(PA)= ave 37 or 43 if evil (Damage = 33 on standard action)

Plus 1d10+ 12 for twr.

So around 86 pts damage on standard action attack.

With 5 hits + rend= 211dpr
With 6 hits + rend= 251 (Get Boots of Speed- always have haste when you need it- use is a free action for 10rds, not consecutive)
With 7 hits + rend= 288
With PA on your to hit is nearly guaranteed so leave it on.
Dazing Assault vs casters or when buffed and flanking.

Combat Strike- Once Mind Effecting buffs are in place (Item of Magic Circle against evil early, Mind Blank later) using Combat Strike takes your attack to 40/40/40/35/35/30/30/25
Likely to make nearly guaranteed 7 with 55% likely hood of hitting with the 8th. With the +5 to hit and damage your DPR for that round is 323 (55% chance of 365, that’s not counting at least 1 likely critical.) So on First Round- charge for 86 damage +free trip/disarm/sunder attempt (throw in Daze vs a caster). If enemy full attacks you, use AOO for 86 damage retaliation per AOO (possibly dropping in 1st round)
Rd2 End Combat Focus for +5 to hit and damage for 323 damage (plus trip and maybe daze)

Cheers.


Hi math question. I’m just guessing ATM
Ave AC for CR is CR +14. So a CR 20 is around 34.

If I’ve got a level 20 TWF (Two Weapon Warrior Varient) with GTWF and Attack Bonuses of

1.Full attack (unbuffed) 34/34/29/29/24/24/19
2.Hasted= 35/35/35/30/30/25/25/20
3.Hasted/Gangup (flanking)37/37/37/32/32/27/27/22
4.Hasted using Combat Strike (3.5 feat granting +5 to hit and damage for one round per encounter) 40/40/40/35/35/30/30/25

Then I’m looking at average 5 (example 1),
6 (example 2),
7 (example 3),
and 7 (55% chance of 8, example 4) hits respectively yes?

Also assume the primary hand is a keen Longsword and the offhand is a keen handaxe. What’s the likely hood of a Crit per full attack in each given situation?

What is the average DPR in each scenario if the Keen Longsword is worth 40 damage per strike and the Keen handaxe worth 37?
For example in scenario 4 I make the ave DPR equal to around 4.5 hits with the primary (1st,2nd, 3rd are auto, 4th is 80%, 5th is 60% chance) for ave 180 (+5 per hit for Combat strike bonus damage) and 2.8 hits with the Offhand (1st,2nd are auto 3rd is 80%) for ave 104 (+5 per hit for Combat strike bonus damage)
Add TWR for 17damage. Then scenario 4 should be ave DPR of 301 (+36.5 for the +5 to damage on the 7.3 hits) TOTALS 336.5 DPR in scenario 4. That’s not allowing for crits-I’d think for 7.3 connecting hits at least one would be a crit?

I’m just going off averages but could some math guru’s check each scenario please?

Thanks.


5 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite.

Hi, just wanna check my reading of Deadly Defense is Correct (Two Weapon Warrior Archetype) it says ‘When a 2 weapon warrior makes a full attack with both weapons every creature that hits him with a melee attack before his next turn provokes an AOO.’

My question: is it one AOO or one AOO PER HIT. If a creature hits you 3 times does it provoke 3 times?

Cheers.


2 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite.

Hi,

normally the aid another action can grant a +2 to an ally's attack or ac etc.

The swift aid feat states you can use aid another as a swift action to grant an ally a +1 to attack or AC.

Is this a unique ability rather than simply using aid another as a swift action for the usual +2?
Is it a typo.

Further how does this interact with an order of the dragon cavalier who can use aid another to grant up to +5? Could he use swift aid to grant his +5?

Cheers.


Hi,

Putting together a Cleric8/Holy Vindicator10/Cleric and having trouble with feat selection.

Mostly because the class ability 'Vindicators Shield' really encourages using one. I don't have room for TWF sword and board...
My DPR with only 1h and power attack is gonna suck.

So far I got
Half -elf (Falcata weapon racial Varient- because the Divine Wrath, Divine Judgement and Divine Retribution abilities get higher DC with high crits weapons)

Cleric8 of Indomae
Archon and Heroism Subdomains- for Aura of Wrath/Heroism.

STR 17 (18)
DEX 9
CON 13 (14)
INT 13
WIS 17 (19)
CHA 15
Scores can be rearranged if needed. Note: I hate dumb chats.
Favored Class bonus goes to Skills.

I would consider human.

Goals- Want the char to be good (doesn't have to be awesome) at melee. Make use of a shield or buckler. Keep in mind need a free hand to cast. DPR not suck.
I like some form of combat trick maybe Dazing Assault.

Needs either scribe scrollor craft wand. Prefer quicken.

Concept: Militant ARM of Indomae- kinda guy who puts party first and ba cks up his melee buddies canduel a melee'r (using his spells and auras)


Hi,

I've been fairly silent so far while we've been playtesting magus through COTCT modules in a 6 person party featuring
A twf fighter archetype
Witch
Inquisitor (animal domain)
Scout archetype brute rogue
Cleric of Indomae (Heroism and Archon domains)

Things of note: we tested at ,2,6,8,10,12

We tried spellstrike without helper feats like combat casting and the focused trait (+2 to concentration) it's to damn hard at low levels. Easily doable with but you blow a feat and a trait. We think dumping it for Arcane channeling would be better. How many a day we weren't sure.

Either 3+int mod or 3 + 1 every odd level. The second option may be too many.

The -4 to hit means you miss heaps.Either -2 or treat char level as Attack Bonus when spellstrike/channel.
We get the touch attack thing. It should be allowed to work for bucklers and maybe small shields. Two handed should also be allowed.

Spell Combat seems to e the class feature that defines magus. Great as is.

Arcana- one e ery even level and let them be SLA's and bonus feats and special ability with limited use. STOP burning slots to power them!!!!If you need to power with something use ki and call it something else.

Lastly- spell critical sucks. And if you wanna use it then we need an Arcana that makes arcane strike a free action.

Our Arcana suggestions are:

Arcane Vengeance- you add your int mod to damage vs casteres level 12.

Retributive Touch- you can lower your AC by 4. allowing you to cast one touch spell in response to a successful attack made against you this round as a free action. Requires level 14

Arcane Turbulence- you can create a 20 ft radius centered on you that lasts for one round per level- these rounds do not neexto be consecutive. ALL spells not modified by the quicken spell feat, swift action spells or your own spellstrike spells provoke AOO.

Cheers


Hi,

Been thinking a lot about Cavalier's lately (or paladin's without spells as i think of them).

I playtested a mounted switch-hitter cavalier (order of the shield) pre-APG and love the class.

I note it has enough feats to complete the twf tree almost as fast as a fighter. With the cavalier mounted class abilities can we expect a decent mounted warrior reguardless of not having mounted feats.

This is mainly because i love twf. Like smite your challenge ability makes you rock vs anyone who matters.

The switch hitter was great but mounted didn't come up much in the ROTFL so we tried. Not for lack of room but transporting a large warhorse is hard and chews rescources.


Hi,

Look I’m not trolling here but musing on the role of an arcane duelist and the abilities he receives to fulfill it. I’ll be straight and say while I’ve been trying to optimize some builds (haven’t played one yet) I’ve noted that perhaps an Inquisitor Fills the same role only more easily.

For example- the character abilities of both classes lend themselves quite heavily to party boosting and being either a primary/secondary combatant. The Inquisitor seems to get much better toys to fulfilling these roles

Arcane Duelist Goodies:
Bard Song (inspire courage- self and party buff, can be used vs anyone and generally lasts most of the day)

Bonus Feats- 6 bonus feats- Arcane Strike, Combat Casting, Disruptive, Spellbreaker, Penetrating Strike and the Greater version. These are more single focused than the selectable feats the inquisitor gets. They improve damage, cut through DR (one of the judgements can do that) and make him more effective in melee vs casters (whom will avoid melee)

Arcane Armor- Nice to see but the Inquisitor doesn’t suffer ASF anyway and has a better spellist. This would be great if the Arcane Duelist had access to more offensive spells.

Bladethirst- Good ability but the weapon buffs work at the expense of turning Inspire Courage off. Situational ability if you need a particular enchancementt on the fly.

Inquisitor Goodies:
Judgement (self buff- usually justice but different ‘modes’ selectable. 7/day lasts until target is dead at later levels you can stack multiple judgements)

Bonus Feats- 6 teamwork feats of limited use. Outflank and Paired Opportunists seems to be best depending on build. Then Coordinated Maneuvers/Defense, Lookout and swap places. The improve to hit chances and add to defense. The inquisitors feats are less focused than the Arcane Duelist but the added to hit feats probably even out the damage increases the Duelist gets.

Bane/Gtr Bane- awesome class ability which leaves arcane strike in the dust. Last only a limited time but adds more enhancement and damage. Swift action to activate and can stack with judgements.

Stalwart- Hello, remember mettle. The inquisitor has improved chance of shrugging off the worst save or lose effects completely as they generally target will/fort.

Exploit weakness- a great reason for inquisitors to wield falchions, kurkris or scimitars. Encourages critical feats, bypassing DR.

Domain- a HUGE advantage. Inquisitors can select anyone domain belonging to their deity (including subdomains) some of which offer awesome combat abilities
EG- Ferocity- allows the Inquisitor to rage and take rage powers. Maybe Reckless Abandon, Strength Surge and the extra rage power feats.
What about the Animal Domain? The Boon Companion Feat would be nice for an Inquisitor with a Tiger or Wolf pet.
Aura of Menace?
Etc.

Slayer- Needs errata this ability no longer works as printed.
True Judgement- Melee version of Deadly Performance.

Now the reason I’m giving a big win to the inquisitor is most of it’s abilities can stack with others. It doesn’t have to wait to wear heavier armor. And because it’s spellist is primarily buffs, healing and condition relief it is a better party helper. And the domain is Huge.

The Arcane Duelist gets similar abilities but the better ones are performance based and can only use one at a time. The spellist has a lot of Offensive enchantment spells with a lot of things are immune to and the Bard lacks the highest spell levels or higher ability score to work great offensively. A lot of it’s buff are morale bonuses which won’t stack with Inspire Courage and it is a poorer healer, condition remover.

Any insights I’m not seeing would be appreciated.


Could a cleric with the subdomain that grants rage take the extra rage power feat? You could really rock melee with a straight cleric- with the beast totem powers (pounce) and reckless abandon.


Hi,

Just like to comment on the Invulnerable Rager Archetype and the new rage powers.

Been doing a few builds over the last few days and am finding that with Beast totem (Natural Armor then pounce), Guarded Stance and Reckless Abandon rage powers a barbarian has a similar AC and while a Two Handed Fighter Archetype outdoes him on a full attack (barely), The Barb is King because pounce lets him full attack every time he moves 10ft. If your combats involve any moves a barb will outdo the fighter because he full attacks more!

Which Hunter is also amazing because it adds scaling damage to any thing with spells or sla's (re- most classes and mid-to high level monsters) when this is in play he outdamages a THander even on a full attack.

There was alot of us who were upset when the PFRPG came out that barbarians weren't the soaking/damaging madmen we'd grown to love. Thanks for fixing this Paizo!

Off topic- but, thoughts on ferocious mount, gtr. Is extra nat armor, dodge AC and rage gonna make a standard horse viable for a mounted Barb?


Hi,

First, APG is awesome, needed to be said again....

Now, Barbarians are now awesome. Built my first one last night (never did in PFRPG as weren't enough toys)

1 Fast Movement, Rage, H- Wpn Fcs: Great Axe, Power Attack
2 DR1/-, Lesser Beast Totem
3 Extreme Endurance, Extra Rage Power:Raging Vitality
4 DR2/-, Guarded Stance
5 Cleave
6 DR3/-, FireResist1, Beast Totem
7 Extra Rage Power: Guarded Life
8 DR4/-, Reckless Abandon
9 FireResist2, Extra Rage Power: Inspire Ferocity
10 DR5/-,Gtr Beast Totem
11 Greater Rage, Furious Focus
12 FireResist3, DR6/-, Come and Get Me
13 Extra Rage Power: Moment of Clarity
14 DR7/-, Superstition
15 FireResist4, Extra Rage Power: Clear Mind
16 DR8/-, Witch Hunter
17 Tireless Rage, Stunning Assault
18 DR9/-, FireResist5, Disruptive
19 Dreadful Carnage
20 Mighty Rage, DR10/-, Spellbreaker

Now this is full of goodnes (Actually has a HIGHER to hit than a fighter!) BUUUUTT

Ends up with DR 10/-, (DR20/- vs non leathal) how does this interact with Guarded Life? Assuming Whenever Barbarian is hit, subtract DR. Should remaining lethal damage drop him below O (Up to con score before death) 1pt per level converted to non-leathal. EG at negative 5 this is converted to 5 pts non lethal. Barb left at exactly 0 with 5 pts non lethal damage? Is that non-lethal subject to his DR when it’s converted from lethal?

Cheers.


Hi, don't have my APG yet but I was curious if the iconics would make use of any of the new APG material.

For instance Valerous might make more sense to be a TWF -fighter archetype.

Harsk really needs the new feat that allows full attacks with crossbows.....


ompleted spellist.

Hi, I've been following the APG blog and more directly, the Talk about the human sorcerer extra spells known option.

Given the whole extra 20 spells known, how would this effect your spells known list.

Bearing in mind there will no doubt be some awesome spells in the APG. (My list includes spells from Spell Compendium)

Would you use these spells to diversify or further specialise? I tend to use shadow conj/evoc and other illusions to get the broadest range from a single school. I like high DCs so I just added some utility to my list.

Spells Bloodline,Feat/New Arcana
0- (12) Detect Magic, Read Magic, Light, Mage Hand, Message, Daze, Ghost Sound, Prestidigiation, Silent Portal, Detect Poison, Acid Splash, Open/Close

1-(7)Identify, Enlarge Person, Feather fall, Nerveskitter, Sleep (swap for Protection against evil), Benign Transposition, Colour Spray (swap for silent image), Mage Armor (swap for Ray of Clumsiness

2-(7)Invisibility, Touch of Idiocy, Detect Thoughts, Mirror Image, Resist Energy, Glitterdust, Phantom Foe, Bulls Strength (swap for scorching ray)

3-(6)Dispel Magic, Blacklight, Fly, Haste, Heroism, Ray of Stupidity, Water Breathing

4-(6+1)Dimension Door, Assay Spell Resistance, Stoneskin, Shadowell, Mass Resist Energy, Enervation, Scrying, Shadow Conjuration (swap for Attune Form)

5-(6)Overland Flight, Mass Fire Shield, Feeblemind, Teleport, Wall of Stone, Shadow Evocation (swap for Break Enchantment), Lesser Planar Binding (swap for Polymorph)

6-(5+1) True Seeing, Gtr Heroism, Stone Body, Illusory Pit, Fleshiver, Gtr Dispel Magic, Planar Bind (swap for Flesh to Stone)

7-(5) Gtr Teleport, Reverse Gravity, Solipism, Gtr Shadow Conjuration, Project Image, Brilliant Aura

8-(6+1)Power Word Stun, Gtr Shadow Evocation, Gtr Planar Bind, Prismatic Wall, Mind Blank, Wrathful Castigation, Clone, Polymorph Any Object

9-(3)Wish, Maw of Chaos, Time Stop, Energy Drain

Obviously there are still the staples like enervation.

Thoughts?


I've just built a cleric of Urza based on wanting to select the animal and war domains (i know I'm a bad boy) But I wanted the domain to represent a Cleric designed for combat.

My alignment is Chaotic Neutral. Having a wolf or Tiger animal companion and a select -a-feat ability rocks hard, but I'm a little concerned about the best way to handle my gods dogma.

The only thing I can think of is a clerical wanderer. Goes around fighting for whatever cause he wishes as long as there is potential for violence. A CN cleric could offer to work with armies or adventuring bands since the tend to take by force. This is in line with the religion's tenents.

Any other ideas? Why else would a CN cleric of an evil war god work with a mostly good party?


hi now I've only got the 3.5 compatable info but the Rex mantis assassin gets 3/4 attack, spells SA and gtr wpn fcs , specialization . fluff prohibitions aside, Does it get too much?
cheers.


bump.


Stupid Phone!
Ignore this one plz


Hi,

been mulling over companions lately. Mostly because so many classes get them
Druids,Paladins, Cavalier's are at full power on the list.

Rangers, Inquisitors (Animal Domain),
Clerics (Animal Domain)

6 classes (i may be missing some)

Given the potential frequency of them showing up-

Do we have potential here for a handbook relevant to all classes?

Myself, and others i play with use them a bit (enough so we allow the boon companion feat from 3.5- i hope this is in the APG)

For us
Rangers and Paladin's tend to take wolves. Good for mounts and Trip buddy.

Cavalier's locked to horses

Druid, Cleric, Inquisitors tend to Ape, Dinosaurs and Big Cats for DPR buddy.

Beyond Gtr Trip for wolves. Multi attack for Apes
what feats are best to maximise them?

Barding is also a must for mid-high levels when they become weaker.


Hi,

Playtested an earlier version of this, now refined and easier to use:

http://docs.google.com/View?docid=0AXlTYYW9enwPZGQ3M3RicHRfMHFnODh4M2d3& ;hl=en

Or to see a cut/paste scroll down (looks much better on google docs)

Athame

Similar to sorcerers, some are born with magic as an inate talent but barely understood. Unlike their more common bretheren though some born with this power have a warrior's heart and would rather use it in a more direct (they would say less cowardly) manner against their enemies. These are the Athame, beings who blend sorcerous power with martial prowess into a seemless whole. These knights have found a harmony between two disparate disciplines, with a focus and power unrivalled and they believe there is nothing they can't kill.
Role:
Athame make versatility a specialty. They'll tell you they're good at nearly everything, but in truth an Athame tends to function mostly as martial evokers and swordsmen.

Alighnment: any

HD: d8
 
Class Skills:

The Athame class skills are Acrobatics, Climb, Escape Artist, Intimidate, Knowledge any, Ride, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Swim, Use Magic Device.
Skill points per level
A Athame gets 2 skill ranks + Int modifier.
 
 
 
Table: Bard
Level
BAB
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Special
Spells
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
1st
+0
0
2
2
Eschew Materials, Evocation Focus, Channel Spell 1/day
1





2nd
+1
0
3
3
Offensive Overwhelm (1d6, +1 DC,SR), Arcane Quickening, (15% Miss +5ft, +1 Saves), Magic Focus SLA (level 1)
2





3rd
+2
1
3
3
Channel Spell 2/day
3





4th
+3
1
4
4
Arcane Quickening (20% Miss +10ft, +1 Saves), Magic Focus SLA (level 2)
3
1




5th
+3
1
4
4
Bonus Feat
4
2




6th
+4
2
5
5
Channel Spell 3/day, Arcane Quickening (25% Miss +10ft, +2 Saves), Magic Focus SLA (level 3)
4
3




7th
+5
2
5
5
Battlecast 1/day
4
3
1



8th
+6/+1
2
6
6
Offensive Overwhelm (2d6, +2 DC,SR), Arcane Quickening (30% Miss +15ft, +2 Saves), Magic Focus SLA (level 4)
4
4
2



9th
+6/+1
3
6
6
Channel Spell 4/day
5
4
3



10th
+7/+2
3
7
7
Bonus Feat, Arcane Quickening (35% Miss +15ft, +3 Saves), Magic Focus SLA (level 5)
5
4
3
1


11th
+8/+3
3
7
7
Spell Strike
5
4
4
2


12th
+9/+4
4
8
8
Channel Spell 5/day, Arcane Quickening (40% Miss +20ft, +3 Saves), Magic Focus SLA (level 6)
5
5
4
3


13th
+9/+4
4
8
8
Battlecast 2/day
5
5
4
3
1

14th
+10/+5
4
9
9
Arcane Quickening (45% Miss +20ft, +4 Saves), Magic Focus SLA (level 7)
5
5
4
4
2

15th
+11/+6/+1
5
9
9
Bonus Feat, Channel Spell 6/day
5
5
5
4
3

16th
+12/+7/+2
5
10
10
Offensive Overwhelm (3d6, +3 DC,SR), Arcane Quickening (50% Miss +25ft, +4 Saves), Magic Focus SLA (level 8)
5
5
5
4
3
1
17th
+12/+7/+2
5
10
10
Greater Spell Strike
5
5
5
4
4
2
18th
+13/+8/+3
6
11
11
Channel Spell 7/day, Arcane Quickening (50% Miss +25ft, +5 Saves), Magic Focus SLA (level 9)
5
5
5
5
4
3
19th
+14/+9/+4
6
11
11
Battlecast 3/day
5
5
5
5
5
4
20th
+15/+10/+5
6
12
12
Tireless Quickening (50% Miss +30ft, +5 Saves), Mastery of Shaping
5
5
5
5
5
5

 
Class Features:

The following are the class features for the Mageknight.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Athame are
proficient with all simple weapons plus the longsword, rapier, sap, short sword, shortbow, and whip. Mageknights are
also proficient with light armor. A Athame can cast
Athame spells while wearing light armor without
incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. Like
any other arcane spellcaster, a Athame wearing
medium or heavy armor, or using a shield, incurs a
chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a
somatic component. A multiclass Athame still incurs
the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells
received from other classes.
Spells: A Athame casts arcane spells drawn from the
Athame spell list (below). He can cast any spell
he knows without preparing it ahead of time, assuming
he has not yet used up his allotment of spells per day for
the spell’s level.
To learn or cast a spell, a Athame must have a Charisma
score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty
Class for a saving throw against a Athame spell is 10 +
the spell level + the Athame's Charisma modifier.
A Athame can cast only a certain number of spells of
each spell level each day. His base daily spell allotment is
the same as a Bard. In addition, he receives bonus spells
per day if he has a high Charisma score (see Table 1–3 of
the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook).
A Athame's selection of spells is extremely limited.
A Athame begins play knowing four 0-level spells
and two 1st-level spells of the mageknight's choice. At
each new Athame level, he gains one or more new
spells as indicated on Table: Bard spells known. (Unlike spells per
day, the number of spells a Athame knows is not
affected by his Charisma score. The numbers on the Table
are fixed.)
Upon reaching 5th level, and at every third Athame
level thereafter (8th, 11th, and so on), a Athame can
choose to learn a new spell in place of one he already
knows. In effect, the Athame “loses” the old spell in
exchange for the new one. The new spell’s level must
be the same as that of the spell being exchanged, and
it must be at least one level lower than the highest-level
Athame spell he can cast. A Athame may swap out
only a single spell at any given level and must choose
whether or not to swap the spell at the same time that he
gains new spells known for the level.
Cantrips: A Athame learns a number of cantrips,
or 0-level spells, as noted on Table Bard Spells
Known. These spells are cast like any other spell, but
they may be cast any number of times per day. Cantrips
prepared using other spell slots, due to metamagic feats,
for example, consume spell slots as normally.
Table: Athame Spells Known
Level
0th
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
1st
4
2





2nd
5
3





3rd
6
4





4th
6
4
2




5th
6
4
3




6th
6
4
4




7th
6
5
4
2



8th
6
5
4
3



9th
6
5
4
4



10th
6
5
5
4
2


11th
6
6
5
4
3


12th
6
6
5
4
4


13th
6
6
5
5
4
2

14th
6
6
6
5
4
3

15th
6
6
6
5
4
4

16th
6
6
6
5
5
4
2
17th
6
6
6
6
5
4
3
18th
6
6
6
6
5
4
4
19th
6
6
6
6
5
5
4
20th
6
6
6
6
6
5
5
 
Eschew Materials: A mageknight gains Eschew Materials as a bonus feat at 1st level.
Evocation focus: From 1st level Whenever a Athame casts an evocation spell that deals hit point damage, he adds his Athame level to the damage (minimum +1). This bonus only applies once to a spell, not once per missile or ray, and cannot be split between multiple missiles or rays. This damage is of the same type as the spell. At 20th level, whenever he casts an evocation spell you can roll twice to penetrate a creature's spell resistance and take the better result.
Arcane Quickening: At 2nd level the Combat focused Athame has discovered how to empower himself with arcane fire. He can as a free action infuse himself with eldritch power for a number of rounds per day equal to 4+ his Cha Modifier. He can Quicken for 1 more round per 2 levels up to a maximum of 13 rounds per day + his Cha Modifier. Temporary increases to Charisma by the use of spells or magic items do not increase the number of rounds per day available. Quickening so grants him a bonus to speed, miss chance vs melee/ranged attacks/targeted spells bonus to saves  and a bonus to attack (as listed in the table) . You can use this ability in med, heavy armor but take the appropiate speed penalty for armor. Using this ability is not without it's price however, as the Athame can only cast spells using the spell channel ability while quickend. A Athame may cease using Arcane quickening in order to cast a spell normally as a free action but is fatigued at the end of the quickening for a number of minutes equal to the number of rounds he spent quickened. Any effect that causes the mageknight to be fatigued, exhausted, stunned, or panicked also stops the quickening, failing a saving throw vs a calm emotions, charm, dominate or similar mind affecting spell also ceases quickening. A Athame may enter a quickening again, in the same encounter but cannot do so if he is under any of the above status effects and entering it a second time takes a full round.
Bonus Feat: An Athame epouses combat in all it's forms and is a dedicated martial student. He gains a bonus combat feat at level 5, 10, 15. He can select any Combat feat he qualifies for, including Disruptive and Spell Breaker- using his Athame level to satisfy fighter levels.
Tireless Quicken: At 20th level a Athame has become one with the magic that empowers him. While Quickened he acts as though under the Freedom of Movement spell. He no longer suffers Fatigue when he ends his quicken, infact he can now cast normally even while quickend and can remain quickened even if he suffers fatigue, exhaustion and is immune to fear. Only successfully stunning or domination can bring him out of his quicken.
Magical Focus (SLA): An Athame has a much deeper connection to the evocation school than his sorcerous counterpart. He learns 1 Spell of the evocation school as a SLA at each level indicated. He can use these SLA's in any combination a number of times per day equal to 3+ his Cha Modifier. He can cast any SLA on his focus list (or any combination of spells on the list) up to the maximum SLA level listed in the table. He casts them at their normal unmodified DC but can use his Offensive Overwhelm ability to increase it. He can take Ability focus and stack it with Spell Focus for his SLA as they function as spells for the purpose of the Spell Focus Feat. 
Bonus SLA's: 2nd-1st level spell, 4th-2nd level spell, 6th-3rd level spell, 8th-4th level spell, 10th-5th level spell, 12th-6th level spell, 14th-7th level spell, 16th-8th level spell, 17th-9th level spell.
 
Battlecast: At the indicated levels the Athame can cast a spell modified by any one feat the mageknight knows without adjusting the spells level or normal casting time. Only one feat can be used casting in this manner- for example a Maximised Fireball could be cast (even using Offensive Overwhelm to increase the DC) but not an Empowered, Maximised Fireball.
Mastery of shaping: A Magical Focused Athame has become so proficient with blasting magic he can now leave holes in his spell areas so as to not harm his allies. A mageknights instantaneous spells never hit allies even if they are in the area of effect. Spells with a duration also have a safe spot on the ally but if the ally chosses to leave this spot they are affected normally on all subsequent rounds and the origonal safe spot dissappears.
Offensive overwhelm:A Athame's spells are particularly potent. Due to his focused training a Athame learns to empower his spells with arcane fire to ensure success. At 4th level Whenever a mageknight casts an offensive spell either by normal means, through a wand or staff he has created himself or through his channel spell ability he may increase the spell's DC, and the bonus to overcome spell resistance increase by +1 by taking 1d6 arcane fire damage to himself as part of the casting. This ability improves as the Athame levels up. At 8th and 16th level he can choose to take another d6 damage to increase the Save and SR check bonus. Meaning a spell cast at level 16 has a +3 to the save DC and +3 to overcome spell resistance if the mageknight takes 3d6 damage as part of the action to cast (this allows a Athame to have a reliable save DC on his offensive spells).
Channel spell: A Athame can channel spells through his weapon. The spell selected must be offensive in nature. Doing so is part of an attack action and affects only the target of the attack. The affected target is only affected on the first successful strike (meaning this can be used as part of a full attack even if the first attack misses) and makes saves as normal. This ability can be used 1/day at level 3, and again at every 3rd level until a max of 6 at level 18. The target is not allowed a save vs the channelled spell but is only affected once, reguardless of how many times struck.
Spell Strike: At 11th level Athame can use Spell Channel in conjunction with Cleave or Spring Attack.
Greater Spell Strike: At 17th level an Athame can use spell channel as part of a Great Cleave or Whirlwind Attack.
 
 
Athame Spellist
0-level:
acid splash, dancing lights, daze, detect magic, flare, ghost sound, light, mending, ray of frost, touch of fatigue, message
1st-level:
burning hands, chill touch, divine favor, endure elements, enlarge person, expeditious retreat, floating disk, mage armor, magic missle, magic weapon, ray of enfeeblement, reduce person, shield, shocking grasp, true strike
2nd level:
acid arrow, bear’s endurance, blindness/deafness, bull's strength, blur, cat’s grace, continual flame, darkness, heroism, false life, flaming sphere, ghoul touch, invisibility, levitate, resist energy, scorching ray, shatter, touch of idiocy
3rd-level:
blink, call lightning, daylight, dispel magic, displacement, fireball, flame arrow, greater magic weapon, haste, keen edge, lightning bolt, ray of exhaustion, resilient sphere, sleet strom, slow, vampiric touch, wind wall
4th-level:
agonize, bestow curse, dimension door, enervation, fire shield, ice storm, mass enlarge person, mass reduce person, shout, stoneskin, wall of fire, wall of ice, dimensional anchor, elemental body 1
5th-level:
call lightning storm, baleful polymorph, cone of cold, elemental body 2, feeblemind, interposing hand, telekinesis, wall of force, waves of fatigue,
6th-level:
acid fog, chain lightning, disintegrate, elemental body 3, forceful hand, freezing sphere, grasping hand, greater shout, giantform 1, hellfire ray, mass bear’s endurance, mass bull’s strength, mass cat’s grace, mind blank, transformation, waves of exhaustion
 
 
 
 
Playing a Athame- A combat focused Athame is nearly always at the frontline- He is better armored and better trained than most arcane casters, so relishes melee combat. Arcane Quickening works in a similar manner to rage and provides big combat bonuses. However the duration is very short and there are many ways for a Athame to have his quickening cut short, so they must be wary of enchantment effects or getting knocked senseless. Also using a quickening prevents regular spellcasting so once you use it you are unable to cast any utility spells or magically assist you allies. Dropping a quickening fatigues you as well so you need to stay close to the cleric to have the effect removed before you can quicken again.
 An Athame can also cast spells which cause alot more damage than normal wizards. Despite not having higher order spells they are quintessential blasters and seem to think any problem can be solved by torching it. Casting Focused Athame still have access to potent buff spells and will spend nearly as much time fighting as casting. They have a little versatility reguarding spell selection and so are less useful outside of combat or solving problems like a wizard can. The Battlecast ability lets you add metamagic effects for free a couple to times a day (they usually favor maximise or widen)


Hi,

Hypothetical Here (mostly on the value of the animal companion)

While being good melee'rs a straight ranger won't beat a fighter 1 on 1 (arena setting) unless the ranger has nearly completely pumped the fighter's race as a favored enemy. Given that rangers only get 5 favored enemies over thier career it's highly likely that a ranger will only take favored enemy:human, preferreing giants, outsiders, dragons etc. It's reasonable to assume human is one favored enemy as it is the most common race, so fairly likely to be encountered.

Assume ranger vs human fighter at 1,5,10,15. arena style the fighter wins.how much of a difference can the animal companion make?

Cheers.

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