Arcticfox6's page

If you navigate up to the gamerlife section there is a gamer connection forum dedicated to this type of thing.

Thanks, i reposted there.

MeetUp.com?

Yes and nothing.

I know this is a shot in the dark but figured id try nonetheless. Anyone in the Valdez area looking for another player?

I am relatively new to Valdez Ak and was hoping there might be a group here that might be looking for a +1. Knowing the population is only around 3k, i will not hold out too much hope, but don't know till you ask. I have tried other forums with no luck. :(

Not that anyone should care but for those who contacted me and were interested in following the campaign, i have created a OP page which i have been using recently to run the campaign. We are in a play by post like part so if anyone wants to participate, who is interested in the campaign, let me know. Cheers.

http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/shadows-of-the-ascendacy

IIRC, the designer of the shaman archetypes said that he intended for them to not gain wild shape at all until 6th level.

I also play it that way (no wild shape until 6th).

Sorry all, in my search i neglected to find the following link that Are is referring too i believe. Cheers!

http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz2rzh?APG-Druid-Shaman-Wildshaping-Modifiers-Wha t-do#1

Hello everyone and all the strolling trolls out there!

I have a question for you all. I always interpreted the wild shape ability of the Animal Shaman archetypes as a "modification/augmentation" that took effect at 6th level. This would mean that an Animal shaman would get wild shape at 4th and 5th level as per a normal druid and at 6th level you would specialize in poly-morphing into a particular animal type at the expense of other forms. Recently i heard another interpretation that has the animals shamans not getting wild shape at all until 6th level. I am not convinced this is supported by the RAW. Am i missing something? What are those of you who have these in your games doing for the WS ability? The exact wording of the Su is below:

Wild Shape (Su): At 6th level, a bear shaman’s wild shape
ability functions at her druid level – 2. If she takes on the
form of a bear, she instead uses her druid level + 2.

Thanks in advance!

I'm a little staggered at the suggestion to penalize the people that make the fairly huge investment of time and resources to GM because PCs die at their table. If the suggestion is that we should penalize those GM's that cheat in order to kill PCs, I agree. Cheaters should be punished. But crippling those that are running the RAW, simply because the rolls haven't been in the players favor is ridiculous IMO.

If a GM is overly gloating, or making players uncomfortable, then you have an issue that's not related to the death of a PC. That's just someone being a tool.

We shouldn't make any sort of hard and fast rule that penalizes the people that essentially make PFS happen. Because even if the intent is pure, I guarantee that we'd loose a lot of your part time GMs. I hear it already: "Why should I ever GM if there's a chance that I could get less than I would from playing?" And really, why would they.

What the original point of the post that started this (i.e Wolflord)is that a GM should share the burden of PC deaths. I will go out on a limb, unlike so many of you, and agree fully with that concept. Walter points out, like others, that why should a GM, who puts such "time and effort" into an adventure be punished... are you kidding me. I am both a GM and a player and have seen how much "time" goes into these adventures and it is nothing... yes Nothing... when compared to the time a player puts into a character with sheer playing time. Let me illustrate my point. Lets say a player to a table with a 4th level character can join a game and that DM kills the entire party. RAW says only the players are required to pay the penalty of death. One player who dies this way looses what at least 36 hours (if they cannot afford a res and assuming 4 hour sessions) compared to the DMs what 3 hours for prep... Even if they can afford a res, they loose 16 PA (taking 8 games or 32 hours of play) to make up PER Character. Your argument is flimsy at best and completely DM centric. We as DMs should be embracing the fun of the game, not "realism". If you want realism, then get off the computer and go running or something. This is a fantasy game... I am much more interested in looking out for the newer players and making sure they had fun than i am about looking out for DMs. PFS is supposed to be RAW and i'm not recommending that be changed at all, but rather that DMs should also live by that sword and share the burden. Currently, there is no penalty to a GM for a player death, and as has been said before MOST (99%) of games do not even have character deaths. For those games the penalty is not an issue. But, for that small percentage that does, I believe strongly that a real penalty be given to DMs. One can easily justify it as the danger that the DMs character is in (the one who receives credit). Examples of penalties might include making DMs pay for a 6th of the cost in PA -or- gold that would be incurred by players raising their party or make them pay the difference in PA/gold for the minimum res if they (the player) cannot afford it (taken from a character in the DMs stable that has the PA/gold to spare), AND/OR if you have a party wipe, then the DMs character has also died and must pay the same cost as all players. If it is so "dangerous" questing as some of you have so astutely pointed out, then why should the GM get a pass with THEIR characters. This kind of rule will not normally affect most games, but will strongly affect those that are more interested in killing players. If they get upset at this and want to leave the game then i happily say "goodbye and don't let the door hit you on the way out". I have personally seen DMs who do get kicks on some level by killing players. I think some do hide behind the rules and set out to exert power over others. I personally will not play with ANY DM who has a "player kill tally" because i believe YOU fall into the above category. I hope that Paizo is keeping tabs on DMs with high kill rate cause i would be willing to bet that there are some out there that the numbers would speak for themselves. Before you all speculate that i have lost a character or three, think again. I have not died yet in PFS. I just think that we DMs should share the penalties with the group.

We're a couple late 20-ish guys (3 in total) looking for 2 or so more players for a Star Wars Saga game. We typically play in North Seattle on Sundays.

We also plan on playing some PFS and other DnD related games.

We are all new to the system so if you are in the North Seattle or greater Seattle area and want to play but don't know the rules, you will still be most welcome! We are looking for mature players please. The adventure begins at 1st level and all classes/races are welcome (even droids). It takes place 13 ABY in the New Republic Era. Let us know if you are interested!

I recognize that James has posted and i know that that the status quo has been upheld for the time being but i would still like to reply to McBobbo's points, as the issue is put to rest for now but may be brought back up later.

I'd say, greater than society as a whole, they don't fit in to the Pathfinder Society. Remember their mission - to go forth, explore, and RECORD what they find. This is distinctly anti-goblin, is it not?

Same could be said by a person back in season 1 about the Shadow lodge...

Those are workable stories, I suppose, but they're really not Golarion goblins any more. At your home game this probably works fine, but in PFS where everyone is trying to share a consistent world, glaring exceptions to the setting can be difficult if not impossible.

How so? The very product we are talking about in this thread has an entire section detailing Goblins as player characters... I think this fact proves you wrong about your view on the goblins. Although it does say you are a freak's freak it also say there could be exceptions to the rule. I see goblin's as a very prolific and common race and as such, i tend to take the perspective that they can be as varied as say... humans. As to the glaring exeptions... again i point to the shadow lodge. It can be done when they (Paizo) say it is. Right now it is no. Fair enough but it does not change my question of "Why not?"

Again, though, you're lobbying for a change in the setting. I might just as easily beg them to ban firearms as a choice that makes sense to me. However, they obviously went in a different direction and without un-printing a large amount of text, it's largely impossible to tell PFS that guns no longer exist. Vis-a-vis literate goblins. And/or non-dog/horse-hating goblins. Making this happen would probably come at too high a cost.

It is totally different when trying to remove vs. granting... Also keep in mind a lot fo PFS is in PDF and even books can be amended via errata.

They could have included rules for the Lt Worf of goblins, but remember that even Worf was a Klingon at heart. He strived to be an excellent Starfleet officer, but never ever would have considered abandoning his Klingon ways completely. Same as a goblin wouldn't be likely to fit in in a Lodge even if raised by humans.

And yet Worf was one of the most memorable characters on STNG. He also stayed with the crew to the end... Goblins could provide many chances for those that want to play one for role-playing reasons to have fun and explore a new, if silly option.

In short, it contradicts too much of their work to make Golarion gobs different.

In contrast i would say that allowing this would only expand goblins and evolve them further without contradicting anything they have already done.

Because no one would play halflings or gnomes anymore.

They're far better at stealthy and ranged classes than either, so unless you want to play a sorcerer or spell-focused bard, the goblin is the superior choice for a small character, mechanically.

+4 dex, +4 to stealth and ride, 30' movement and darkvision is that good. Their culture and general repulsiveness is why they haven't wiped out the gnomes, not their base stats.

I'm GMing a goblin party in PbP, and they're absolutely sick at 2nd level.

That is not my experience at all. Firstly you are referring to metagaming/power-gaming and as such, does not apply to many players who want to play the race for the RP element. That said I too have GMed goblins as i love to run events and home brew. There are tons of reasons to play Gnomes and halflings. Goblins excel at only two main aspects over the other races, stealth and ride. This means they make good stealth/acrobatics based rogues and decent small cavs... Well sorry to bust your bubble, but both those classes are not exactly the most powerful classes in the game. As you mentioned (sort of), a power-gamer would not choose goblins over gnomes for any cha based caster/ character (to include social/skill monkey rogues, one of the main reasons to play a rogue btw). Well, right there is a reason to play a gnome or halfling... I have not found that goblins overpowered any of the other races, certainly not to the level to exclude them as a player race. If you haven't already, i would be curious if you felt the same way if you had other non-goblin races playing alongside some goblin characters all of whom know what they are doing, and keep going in levels. I would be curious if you would see a huge disparity between them.

If you look at the other Crane feats, for example, that's the only sensible interpretation:

Crane Wing: Crane Style, base attack bonus +5 or monk level 5

You are clearly supposed to have Crane Style before getting Crane Wing. This is because you have to enter the style first before using the other feats in the chain. It's not the case where you only need one of the following.

Awesome, makes sense to me. Thanks!

How are people interpreting the prereqs for the style feats. Let us take, for example, Crane style feat that states:

Prerequisites: Dodge, Improved unarmed strike, base attack +2 or monk level 1st.

Now i read this as, in order to qualify for the feat, you must have either; dodge, improved unarmed strike, base attack of +2 or a monk level meaning if you have any one of the following you can qualify for the feat.

Another interpretation:

You need to have dodge, improved unarmed strike and BAB +2 or just 1 level in monk (not grammatically supported IMO)

Yet another interpretation:

You will always need dodge, improved unarmed strike and either BAB or a monk lvl (so basically a monk would need dodge first before qualifying for this feat).

Any thoughts and even better an official ruling that i have clearly missed?

Thanks!

So I'm slowly working my way through this. Has anyone else noticed a large amount of Goblin Pirate material? Or materials to make a Goblin Pirate? I'm seriously looking at you, picture on pg 18!

It's like Paizo has been read my brains for the last few years since I started thinking of making a Goblin Pirate. Then my wife found a Reaper mini of a Goblin Pirate with Powder Monkey....

If you want awesome minis related to this i would check out rackhams old goblin pirate line for the Confrontation game (can still find them on ebay). Great minis if you ask me...

As for this discussion, i must say, why not make this a playable race in PFS... So far i have heard a bunch of people say that they would not allow it because basically it offends their hardline Tolkien view on DnD, well thats good for them, but why should those that want to play a gobbo in PFS not be able to... Because they don't "fit" into society... frankly that is a very easy fix. A new tribe of "civilized" goblins has emerged and even sought to befriend the other civilized races, the pathfinders have done a social experiment rescuing baby gobbos from their wicked brethren and raised them to be allies, a new goblin oracle, desiring progression and evolution to a more civilized and therefore powerful goblin society (though not necessarily "good"), has emerged and has begun to challenge established goblin warlords and gathering more and more goblins to his side and has established peaceful relations with humans, etc etc. I could come up with many more reasons to have this work and im sure Paizo could blow me out of the water with creativity in this regard. So why not? Let those that don't want to play them, not buy this book or play gobbos at their discretion. Just seems silly to me to put all this work into it and have it only be a dm tool at best. I agree with a previous post that legalizing this book would also boost sale greatly. It is a balanced race with endless roleplaying opportunity that can only add to the experiences of those that would want to play them. For what it is worth (not much) i would say legalize them.

So, one option for you concept wise, would be going a route similar to what i did in a home brew ravenloft game with an NPC. One of the NPC,s came from a line of "hunters" that every third generation the children would exhibit amazing control over undead. Their family has been befriended by the prevailing church in the area. Family members undergo a sacred oath to consent to their remains being raised in order to continue to battle evil in their gods name. As such, this female necromancer was LG, raised to fight for the church and use her "gifts" to call on previously deceased family members or allies to aid in her quests. For PFS this would most likely mean you would want start paladin and go bones oracle. The summoned skeleton/zombie would be a family member or other consenting ally (in the case of my game it was her father). Although this concept was not for a PFS game, i don't see why this would not work in PFS. Your family could be attached to, say, a hellknight order... As for the above arguments for spells with the "evil" descriptor, you may want to just play it safe and just pick different spells... Anyways, food for thought.

Has there been any official rulings on what exact magical slots exist for animals both animal companions and regular purchased animals in PFS? I haven't been able to find it if it exists but it has come up in our PFS game and i would like to know. Thanks!

After posting the thread about designing chases i thought i would post my rules on mass combat that i am designing and see what you all thought. Think of this system as melding individuals into a swarm that do automatic damage. This system involves a bit of upfront work on the part of the GM as they will need to calculate attacks/exchanges between all potential combat units and even PCs. PCs can also attack the swarm/unit but can only do as much damage as an individual contributes to the unit's HP. Also after mass combat has ended you can take the damage sustained to the unit and kill off a number of individuals equal to the number that would contribute that number of hit points.

Mass combat system basics:
*1 square on combat grid represents 20' X 20' on the tactical "traditional" map and can contain 16 small/medium creatures or 4 large = 1 unit

*All or nothing: For a group to be considered a "unit", they must be similarly equipped with the same arrangements of feats, hps, AC etc as this will really simplify the math (yes there is a fair amount of math involved here).

*Unit stats:
Unit initiative: A unit uses a group initiative
Hit points: Sum of all the hit points for all individuals in a unit, a unit is not dead/nor reduced in stats in mass combat until its HP reach 0 (think swarm)

Attack: (Calculated as follows using the bestiary stats, do not round)
= Average attacker damage X (1 - (Defenders static AC - Attackers attack bonus)/20) + Average attacker Critical damage X (crit range value/20) X (1 - (AC - Attack bonus)/20)

The above calculation is done for the main attack and recorded. It is then repeated for multiple attacks and can be done for specific circumstances like a charge or if the unit is under the effects of bardic music etc. This can become as complicated as you want it to be but i prefer to have at least stats for attacks against each potential defendant on the battlefield for a standard attack, charge and full attack.

note: Attackers crit range value depends on the specific weapon used and is calculated as follows: long swords crit range value = 2 because both 19 and 20 represent potential crits, A rapier would be 3 (18, 19 and 20 are crit threats) and unarmed strikes would be 1)
Unit damage per round: Attack value X # of attackers

Units can do the following in a round:
Move/move = unit moves 2 squares if speed is 20-35' or 4 squares if speed is 40-75' etc.
Move/attack = unit moves 1 square and attacks once (no sneak attack)
Charge! = unit moves twice and ends with an attack with normal charge bonuses but no usual penalties (no sneak attack)
Press-on = unit remains engaged and gets full attack and SA.

I have more rules for formations etc. but i think i have made this far too complicated for this forum already so i will just touch on a few points and end lol...
Cover acts to improve AC and prevents charge
Miss change is multiplied by the Unit's damage per round
units with smite evil or challenge can use these abilities and they have full effect accept that they last only one round.
Spells that remove individuals from combat (sleep fascinate etc) do damage to the unit equal to the number of fully affected members X the individual hit points they contributed to the total.

Anyways thanks for reading!

@Dabbler:
I see your point, or even if you made it so you could not increase the same stat with both points, that would be better i think.

Also i just wanted to simplify the first part of my earlier post, sorry i tend to be long winded and do not seem to communicate well via forum...

I houseruled that monks using "monk weapons" can use either the weapons listed damage OR the unarmed damage (whichever is greater, but also their choice). When adopting the unarmed damage for such a weapon, you also must use the unarmed crit stats (i.e. once a monk gets unarmed damage of d10 and uses a temple sword, if they decide to use the unarmed damage they lose the 19-20/X2 crit).

Thanks for the interest Jamesfrizell! I did consider what you mentioned about this style of chase stunting creativity, and to tell the truth, although the chase i outlined is defined, I as the DM am not above allowing PCs to suggest alternate paths or ways of approaching a sequence in order to pass it. That said, i do not have that as an option so perhaps having a sort of placeholder option box for the PCs so they can see it might be prudent, or even allow the PCs a number of "workarounds" equal to their level to spend on chases throughout their adventuring career (i.e. once spent, they are gone until they gain a level and do not replenish). Just a thought that you gave me... Thanks! Any other thoughts?

There has been one glaring issue for me that i house-ruled out that does not go towards "fixing" this class but i have all monk weapons scale in damage with their unarmed damage. Seemed lame to me that a monk who fights with a kama, can never do as much damage as his strikes. Now i know that you are not supposed to apply RL logic to dnd but speaking within the scope of this class i think it makes sense and allows people who want to use monks with different weapons to make that character instead of being pigeon holed by metagaming to go unarmed once unarmed damage exceeds the weapon.

Other options might include (taken together):
1. simply changing the stunning fist to not having a saving throw associated with it... People might not like this one but having seen monks and played one, stunning fist has become the new 3.5 paladin smite, you either never hit with it, or they make their save... i propose removing the save.
2. Elemental fists progresses the same (level wise) as stunning fist (i.e. +d6 every 4 levels)
3. Perfect strike can apply to all monk weapons... yes including temple sword.
4. Hit die changed to d10
5. another idea i was toying with is when a monk gains a stat bonus at ever 4th level, they gain an additional stat bonus (for a total of +2 bonus to stats every 4 levels) that they can put in any stat representing their total devotion to mind and body.
6. Lastly i would give them access to fighter specific feats (like w. specialization) in monk weapons.

Recently, i ran a Darksun Mod and wanted to include chases to add depth to parts of the adventure that otherwise would have been lacking. I used the template presented in the GMG but expanded/clarified a bit and wanted to share some ideas to flesh out chases.

What chases are to me: Chases are not only a way to spur excitement and get the PCs from Point A to Point B, they are also a way to let more "skill-based" classes shine. As such, i am always looking for ways to introduce more obscure skill checks as an option for players who happen to have that skill. "Chases" are any series of events that require "non-combat" options like skill checks to overcome obstacles usually in a set amount of time. This would include: chasing an enemy, fleeing from an enemy or natural disaster, opposed skill check events etc.

Designing a chase: Like the chases presented in the GMG, i use boxes to denote an option that the PCs can take. Chases are divided into Sequences that describe what is going on for that phase of the chase and the options boxes available to the PCs as seen below. Below is just the first two sequences of 5 of the first chase i exposed my PCs to and involves the PCs running after a thief who stole water from an older elven woman while the PCs were battling a group of ruffians attempting to use intimidation to cut in where the PCs were in line for water.

Sequence 1: The chase is on...
Dodging the crowd (Acrobatics) DC15------>Sequence PC Line--> Sequence 2
or
Sidline (Run) --PC Line-- Sideline (Run)->Sequence PC Line--> Sequence 2
or
#Fails: 3 (progress)---------------------------------------> Sequence 2

Sequence 2: Which way did he go?
Footprints (Track) DC15------------------>Sequence PC Line->Sequence 3
or
Ask on-lookers (Diplomacy/intim) DC15---->Sequence PC Line->Sequence 3
or
#Fails: 3 (We lost him!) --------------------------------->END

Components
Sequences: Sequences involve a brief description of the scenario and presents the PCs with boxes representing their options (usually 2 to 3 options per sequence). The PC line is simply a line perpendicular to the flow of the chase that you can put the PCs on to show where they are in the chase. They can also be put in between option boxes. Basically a PC should move from line to line, through the boxes as desired and able.

Option boxes: contains a description and skill name needed to pass through the box and continue the chase. Note that the DC are normally hidden from the PCs and the DCs within boxes of the same sequence are usually within 5 of each other. Boxes can contain descriptions like "Run", "Stand still" or "Do nothing" and do not require a roll. In this case generally it means the PC who chose that path must spend a "round" for each option box labeled as such within a sequence before progressing, although they may at any point use a round to make a check if they desire to move faster. Success/passing the DC of a box means progression in the chase and potentiality onto another sequence. Failure generally keeps the PC from progressing and can result in damage (ex. falling) but does not usually result in "backward" progression. The PC generally stays where they are and can try again next round.

Rounds: PCs can move one box in a round, either forward or in some cases backwards. The DM will set a countdown die (Or multiple dies) representing a number of rounds before something happens (usually bad like a sandstorm reaches the PCs location, a thief slips away into an impossible maze of tunnels or a horde of zombies catch up to the PCs). Each round reduces the die by 1 until the event happens or the PCs hit some milestone and are successful. Each PC is considered to be on its own during a chase. This means if a PC makes its check and advances, he cannot help the following PCs to get to his spot in the same round. There is an option PCs have to convert some boxes into "run" boxes if they sacrifices a round to "guide" their friends, but again they can only guide after they declare they will "guide" and only as long as they sacrifices a round to do so. This ruling came into place because i see the chase round as slightly longer than the standard round and as people get excited and are involved in the chase they do not necessarily keep tabs on each other. PCs can also go backwards during a chase. I have seen this when the PCs wanted to go back for some friends who could not Pass an option box and where stuck while a horde of zombies approached. This is simply done by choosing the boxes that the would progress the PC to the desired box and pass all necessary skill checks. Note that failure results in a failure to progress.

Spells: As spells can have huge effects on bypassing sequences i have a simple rule that is universal to both PCs and NPCs/monster... any spell that can reasonably be used to advance the PCs or hinder a foe/event only results in the movement of one model one option box. No matter the level of the spell... So casting teleport will only allow a wizard to progress one box in a chase. Although this seems very unfair, the idea is not to have spellcasters simply bypass a chase and generally means a spellcaster will save their spells and use them when they can get their full effect (anytime outside a chase like right when the chase ends).

#Fails: This part is included for every sequence and is the number of failures that can be accrued before something happens. This can be that simply enough time and effort results in automatic progression, or can result in being taken out of a chase or worse.

Special notes: The Run feat also allows anyone who has it to combine all "Run" boxes within a sequence into one box.
Fast movement: Fast movers like barbarians and mounts still only move one square unless they have 60 movement, in which they can duplicate the effects of the run feat described above.
Anyways that is about it, just thought i would share this with you all. Take care and safe hunting out there :).

The group is going to be playing in Northern Seattle just north of the University of Washington (near Northgate mall). Anyways take care!

Greetings fellow Pathfinders! I wanted to send a feeler out to see if anyone might be interested in jumping in on a game i am going to be running come mid February in my Homebrew campaign adaptation of Darksun. We are looking to play twice monthly on the weekends. The game will be beginning at 3rd level and will use the point system for character creation (25 points in this case). If you are curious about some of the rules i have posted a thread in the Homebrew section called Darksun mod about the main changes i will incorporate into this world. Check it out if you are interested and feel free to reply on this thread.

My Gming style: I tend to run fairly complicated adventures that are for the most part free flow. I tend to focus equally on roleplaying and combat. I tend to run thinks like the world keeps spinning and plots unfold regardless of what the pcs do (although PCs can influence events i great ways of course!).

What im looking for in a PC: Experience is not necessary. I have been Dming for a long time across many different RP systems and have created and "trained" about a half dozen full groups (having been a military brat forced me to move many times and unfortunately could not move my groups with me so i created new ones:)). That is all to say i am fine with having an inexperienced player join up. I do however want a "mature" player. My quests tend to be adult themed and brutal at times. I also want a team player. I have had enough of selfish players hell bent on stealing from their fellow adventurers and running off on solo adventures or want to turn evil by betraying the group in some fantastical feat of roleplaying over a few gaming sessions... I have dealt with more than my fair share of these players and trust me when i say you will not enjoy me as a DM. My adventure will be tough enough without you forcing the party to watch its back because you are waiting to stab them...

Anyways All other playing styles welcome and please take a look at the mod and let me know if you are interested! Thanks!

Hello, so the first step i might suggest is to run this idea by your players... What you actually decide to do will depend heavily in their input (or should depend on it IMHO). That being said i will share what i do in my games. Firstly i would hesitate stripping spellcasting classes of power (especially bards... lol). In this regard i agree heavily with Mark. This will be especially noticeable at lower levels (below 5th or 6th level) as arcane casters tend to contribute less to the party at lower levels than they do at later levels, and divine casters tend to be healing batteries at lower levels. Hindering their allotment of spells further will only serve to pigeon hole them into specific roles and effectively gimp them when compared to other classes. Even if a player has the desire to play a gimped character during the first few gaming sessions due to novelty, my experience is that that will fade away and leave the player disappointed in the end and either abandon their character or leave the campaign wasting time. You got to give them something or take from everyone. It is a fairness issue, but that is an obvious argument that i do not need to touch further on. I recently ran an extended campaign set in Ravenloft that was definitely "low magic". I made it so in two main ways:
1. I made magic items much less available (as the domain lord Azalin hoarded most of the items in the domain). This does not mean just the price is increased, but also that items are simply not available or aren't carried by vendors at all. I liked your increased prices though. In my campaign this was relatively easy to control as most monsters i used did not have treasure so i would control what the PCs got by predetermining rewards given for their deeds by the local magistrate or whatever.
2. Spellcaster classes are rare and are usually reserved for monsters. Going into town is not a good place to go for getting spellcasting as there are no "openly practicing spellcasters" or spellcasting services offered... period. Perhaps the gods have fallen silent or maybe your world is more into technology and has forgotten magic. This does not mean you have to nerf any class, it is fun for players to think that they are the only one that can do what they do. When players do not see magic being used by NPCs all around them and don't find magic items after every kill, they will know magic is rare even if they can cast spells or even produce magic items.

This all being said what worked for my group might not work for yours. I just thought i would share what we did, but again i would strongly recommend that you not nerf some classes and not others. A point of curiosity, were you planning on reducing spellcasting of mansters too or just the civilized society has less magic? Anyways thanks for reading and good luck!

I did not want a player race that is large for those exact reasons (hard for dungeon crawls due to space, they have reach, how the hell do you deal with classes with mounts etc.) which is why i decided to make my half-giants follow the XPH build (medium, powerful build). My goal was to capture, what i believed to be, the essence of the various Athas specific races and make them balanced (relatively speaking) with core races. I tried to use the race building guide that was posted elsewhere on this forum although i did take it with a grain of salt. My goal was 11 points, or there abouts, although the Muls exceed that by about a point. Can anyone think of major design flaws with the races that i might have missed or feel they are way too powerful. I admit freely here and now that i tend to make my races on the powerful side of the spectrum, but i also tend to be a tough DM when it comes to encounters and social situations. Being a human for example will tend to be its own advantage more often than not. I also wanted to flesh out the new races to give them character all their own and make them fit my vision for them. Anyways thanks for the input so far!

Haha lyrax and I are on the same page it seems.... lol.

So how much would you like us to tinker with this to make it balanced? You might consider the following:

+2 Dex, +2 Wis, -2 Int bred for war this goblinoid is fast and cunning but lacks the critical thinking skills present in their more skittish cousins (i chose not to give them a cha penalty because you sound like you may want them to be good at intimidation and maybe even leaders of goblin war parties)

Small

Fast: Like goblins, this variant is also fast and moves 30 ft (6 squares)

Darkvision: 60 ft

Grip of the bugbear: These goblins poses strong hands and are conditioned at an early age to utilize the weapons of their larger enemies so as to use their weapons against them on the battlefield. These goblins are considered medium for the purposes of wielding weapons. This means that if they attempt to use small weapons they will receive the normal -2 that a medium character would receive.

Intimidating: +2 to their intimidate.

Riders of Blood: +2 ride

Tools of the trade: proficient in dogslicers and horsechoppers

From the shadows: sneak attack +d6 precision damage to all attacks that would normally be eligible for sneak attack.

Anyways, you can swap out the from the shadows with something else but i thought it might be a nice touch to maintain the sneaky nature that goblins have.

Good call Apethae, thanks for the correction!

Powerful Build: Although technically medium, Half-giants are always treated as being large for their CMB and CMD and when looking at any effects that depend on size (such as grab, swallow, etc.). This includes how much space they take up when swallowed and with similar abilities (i.e. when swallowed, Half-giants count as being large in terms of how much space in the stomach they take up). They also are considered large for the purposes of their carrying capacity (i.e. X2 carrying capacity). They do not however gain any reach and do not take up a 10 Ft square themselves. They are considered medium-sized creatures for the purposes of utilizing weapons, armor and other items dependent on size. This means that if they try to wield “large” weapons, they would receive the normal -2 penalty.

Look about right?

The decision behind allowing psionics was exactly as Meatrace pointed out, that they are a big part of the Dark Sun setting. Using the XPH (albiet with hit point and skill updates to 3.75) was done just because i am used to the XPH and not so much with the PU.
Sorry about the email Jaded, i read the thread with your email and thought you meant you wanted to check out my doc. My bad.

As for the Thri-Kreen i have been looking at them and decided to add an additional -2 penalty to Charisma (so -4 total).

The incredible Toughness ability of Muls allows them to remove only one of the three listed conditions, 1/day, so they cannot remove each of those one per day they have to choose only one. It will remove the affects that are caused by spells that have the duration of instant, or are burst effects. Emanations (that are constantly active for a given period of time) or aura abilities will only be suppressed for a number of rounds equal to their charisma (minimum 1 round). after this time the Mul is affected normally. Is this what you were getting at Jaded?

As for the monsters i have a few that i am going to use...
Crodlu -> See Axebeak in the Bonus Beastiary (CR2)
Erdlu -> See Axebeak with young template (CR1)
Inix -> See Crocodile (CR2)
Kank -> See Hippopotamus (make capsize ability affect any object of large size or smaller like chariots), hold breath lets them do better in sand storms and the sweat can also be converted to dermal plating and hardy immune system.

Meatrace can you send me what you all did for your game?
aaronlee@aol.com

Thanks for all the input!

Looks interesting, though putting all of it into a pdf format would be nice :). Not as familiar as id like to be, but it does look good. Have you converted the dragon kings or any of the monsters/classes?

Yeah currently it is in .doc format with pictures and in a better format. The copying did nto translate very well above to be honest, but i was more interested in the comments on the rules so i thought it would be ok. I do have the doc if i can figure out how to post ti somehow. As for the Dragon Kings, the PCs will be so far below their schemes i have not bothered converting them. If the PCs do meet them it will be in a formalized, non threatening setting that will be all RP. As for the monsters, that is my next step. My first thought is simply to keep many of the same animal archtypes (horses, wolves etc) and convert them into a reptile or insectoid version keeping most of the states and abilities the same but changing (slightly) the name. This will allow players to have the same animal companions and summoned monsters with a slight (even if only in the name and description) desert twist without taking up all my time creating them. I have already combed through the Bestiarys and pulled out the monsters that would easily be found in my setting to form a monster bank stratified by CR. Anyways let me know if you want to see the doc and ill try to tinker with the options and post it. Thanks for the interest!

Hello All,
Welcome to my personal mod of Dark Sun for Pathfinder RPG. This is the packet that is going to be distributed to my players in an upcoming Dark Sun game of mine. The people who have taken a look suggested that I should share it with the community, so here it is for your viewing pleasure. A few disclaimers that I feel compelled to share... I tend to take campaign settings and customize some features to make it my own (helps to show the players that reading the source materials might not give them a leg up on the GM and keeps them on their toes). I used a number of source materials in order to help me craft this mod including the 4th ed Campaign setting. Despite the overall lack of popularity, I did like a number of rules and themes and thus incorporated them into my setting, so some things may look familiar. Regardless take a look and tell me what you think. Thanks and I wish you all awesome games in the future!

Introduction: Welcome to the desolate world of Athas, the Dark Sun campaign world. Most of you reading this are familiar with the setting, but for those who are not, Athas is a dying, desert world that has seen many wars over its long, but largely forgotten history. Entire races, common in other settings are all but a distant memory in the minds of the people of Athas. Gnomes, Trolls, Orcs, Ogres and Kobalds are notable examples of species that have been wiped from the face of Athas, although traveler from other planes or solitary hidden tribes may be found in the deep reaches of the waste. Of the races that remain, many are not the cookie cutter variety that you would find on other worlds. Halflings are savage cannibalistic hunters, elves are nomadic raiders and traders and Dwarves are bald... Three other races are commonly found throughout Athas and their stats are detailed below: The half human half dwarven slave race of the Muls, the insectoid hunter race of the Thri-Kreen and the massively built and emotionally unstable Half-giants.
Aside from the people of Athas, another major fact of note is that metal (of all kinds) is extremely rare and as such all weapons commonly available are made from other materials, such as wood, stone, bone and obsidian. The later two materials are detailed below.
As the world has be utterly ravaged by war and magic, the people of Athas tend to be overwhelmingly suspicious and downright hostile towards arcane magic. The source of this fear is a category of arcane spell casters known as defilers. Their wicked spells draw their power from the lifeforce of all those around them, slaying lesser organisms and damaging the very land around them. Becoming a defiler is a choice that each individual arcane caster must make for the reward is rapid advancement in power. Regardless of whether a given arcane caster is a defiler or a preserver (the common name given to “regular” casters that do not defile) they are usually treated as if they were defilers and can be hunted. There is in fact an entire group of people that are devoted to the hunting down and eradicating of such defilers and that is the Templars. The Templars are agents of the Sorcerer-kings and work diligently and often ruthlessly to maintain order in the city-states.
When envisioning where your characters are picture Athas as a massive desert world with a few bastions of civilization that appear to be a cross between the Aztecs and the Ancient Romans with an overarching middle eastern influence. Instead of great expanse of ocean, a great sea of silt exists where sail ships nonetheless continue trade routes and pirate activities. The civilized areas are divided into great city states with each ruled utterly and totally by a Sorcerer-king. All city-states have dubious relations with one another and raiding and outright skirmishes between them is not uncommon. Welcome to Athas, where slavery is common, arcane magic is all but outlawed and water is rare.

New Rules
New Player Races:

Mul Racial Traits
+2 Constitution, +2 Strength, -2 Intellegence: Muls are heavily utilized as slaves and manual workers, and as such have been bred to be strong and hardy but have lost some of their critical thinking skills to keep them subservient and find academic pursuits naturally difficult.
Medium
Normal Speed: Muls have a base speed of 30 ft (6 squares).
Durable: Muls receive Toughness as a bonus feat
Dwarven Blood: Muls count as both Dwarf and human for the purposes of feats and effects
Tireless: Muls require only 8 hours of rest per 72 hours
Survivors: Muls receive a +2 bonus to their Survival Skill
Incredible Toughness: 1/day a Mul may remove one of the following conditions: Fatigued, Sickened or Dazed as an immediate action.

Thri-Kreen Racial Traits
+2 Dexterity, +2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma: As natural hunters, Thri-kreen are quick and cunning, but are also alien in appearance and manner. They only gain a -2 penalty to charisma because they are known throughout Athas and their behavior and mannerisms are not unexpected
Medium
Swift: Thri-kreen have a base speed of 35 Ft (7 squares).
Darkvision: Thri-kreen can see in the dark up to 60 Ft.
Multiple Arms: Thri-kreen have an extra set of small arms that do not posses the strength to wield weapons or shields effectively, but can hold or retrieve items. Thri-kreen can draw one item per round as a swift action and may hold items in their smaller, albeit more dextrous arms. Weapons held in these hands do not threaten the spaces around them. Thri-kreen can use their lower/smaller set of arms for fine manipulation and spell casting and thus still threaten the spaces around them while casting, but may not attack at the same time as their focus is directed to the activity at hand.
Leap of the Locust: Thri-kreen are always treated as having a running start when jumping.
Torpor: Like Elves Thri-kreen only require 4 hours of sleep per day, but unlike elves, they are fully unconscious during this time.
Claws: Thri-kreen gain two primary natural attacks that do a base d4 damage per attack.
Chitin: Having a tough chitinous hides, Thri-kreen gain a +1 natural armor bonus to AC.
Agile: Thri-kreen gain a +2 bonus to Acrobatics skill.

Half-Giant Racial Traits
+4 Strength, -2 Dexterity: Half-giants are incredibly strong but find maneuvering difficult due to their impressive size.
Medium Size
Long Strides: Half-giants have a base speed of 35 Ft (7 squares).
Low-Light Vision: Half-Giants can see twice as far as humans in conditions of dim light.
Powerful Build: Although technically medium, Half-giants are always treated as being large for their CMB and CMD and when looking at any effects that depend on size (such as grab, swallow, etc.). This includes how much space they take up when swallowed and with similar abilities (i.e. when swallowed, Half-giants count as being large in terms of how much space in the stomach they take up). They also are considered large for the purposes of their carrying capacity (i.e. X2 carrying capacity). They do not however gain any reach and do not take up a 10 Ft square themselves nor can they wield “large” weapons.
Large and in charge: Half-giants are very unstable and can be very intimating gaining a +2 bonus to their intimidate skill. Likewise they are not known for their good manners or self control and receive a -2 to their Diplomacy skill.
Large appetite: Half-giants also require lots of food to sustain their massive stature and take twice the amount of food (not water) that normal medium creatures require.
Hard to hide: Due to their semi large physiques, Half-Giants receive a -2 penalty to their Stealth skill.

Classes
No Gods remain, or at least have any semblance of organized followers on Athas. As such, Clerics devoted to such beings are virtually unheard of and those that do exist are either astral travelers or people who happened to have found an ancient manuscript that details the old ways of worship, making you perhaps the only follower in the world. Most Clerics that do exist are devoted to an ideal or the elements and derive their power from those sources. Open worship of any deity within the confines of a City-State, other than the residing Sorcerer-King, is expressly forbidden and is often met with a Death Sentence.

All arcane classes exist and NPCs can be defilers. This option is not available to PCs in my game. Defilers gain the following:
Defiling: When a Defiler casts a spell, they draw spell power from the life force of everything around them. The defiling does a d6 of negative energy damage at a 10 foot radius burst surrounding the Defiler when they cast a first level spell. When and as they gain access to higher level spells they may choose to either extend the radius by 5 feet or increase the damage by a d6 negative energy and apply that to any spell of the new spell level. All lower level spells retain their rate of defiling (i.e. first level spells will always be 10 foot radius at d6 damage). This choice must be made once the defiler gains access to the new spell level and cannot be changed once the decision has been made for each spell level. This ability creates a pool of damage that bursts forth from the caster. The closest organisms are affected first, including plant life robust enough to have hit points (grass and sprouts do not count but are nonetheless destroyed). Each organism takes up to its remaining hit points in damage (bringing PCs to -1 hit points) and then spillover damage goes onto the next closest organism until the damage pool is spent. Targets receive a saving throw (Fort DC 10+Spell level+Cha modifier). A successful save means the target is reduced to half its remaining hit points. With that damage being taken from the pool and the effect moving on to the next closest target. Any damage that is left over once all eligible targets have taken damage is reduced by 5. Any remaining damage after the 5 is taken directly from the Defiler without any saving throw to reduce damage. The 5 points you subtract represents the land itself being defiled before the Defiler. Orisons do not cause a noticeable level of defiling to cause damage. The benefit is that the Defiler adds a +1 DC to all spells they casts. Defilers receive a +1 to their CR.

Templars are either Inquisitors or Oracles with the Battle Mystery.

Spells that create water have their spell level increased by 2. Create water is now a 2nd level spell.

Paladins are now totally changed in concept and are no longer the “paladins” of other game settings. In Dark Sun they are a class of Gladiators with two variants; Hero's and Tyrants (Paladins and Anti-paladins respectively) that Draw their power from the roar of the crowds and their reputations in the Ring which provides them class benefits (regardless of being in the Ring or not.
All Gladiators may be of any alignment, their choice of being a Hero or Tyrant merely suggests their “Ring” personal/demeanor and does not reflect on their actual nature.
Gladiators do not have Auras of Good or Evil, and cannot detect Evil or Good
Smite- Gladiators may declare a target of ANY alignment or creature type as its smite target and gain a bonus to hit equal to its Charisma and a bonus to damage equal to its Gladiator Level. Note that they no longer get any special bonuses to hitting undead, evil outsiders and the like.
Upon taking their first level in Gladiator the player must choose Hero or Tyrant. This represent the Gladiators Stage persona. Heros follow the abilities, lay on hands, channel positive energy, spells and auras as per the Paladin class. Tyrants gain touch of corruption, channel negative energy, spells and auras as per the Anti-paladin class.
Resilience of the Ring: upon reaching 2nd level the Gladiator (regardless of being a hero or Tyrant) receives a bonus to all saving throws equal to his Charisma as a Morale bonus.
Health of the gladiator: Upon reaching 3rd level the Gladiator (regardless of being a Hero or Tyrant) is immune to diseases as per the Paladins Divine Health ability.
Equipment is my Life: Gladiators must choose a Divine Bonded Weapon or Armor and cannot choose the Mount Option.
All other abilities and effects present in either the paladin and Anti-paladin will be reflected in the Gladiator, including hit points and skill points per level.
Oracles may not choose the Wave Mystery.
Any class variants of abilities that allow you to cast create water must change this ability to “Destroy Water”.

I allow Psionics in my campaign. All material presented in the 3.5 EPH (Expanded Psionics Handbook) are allowed (races aside). I do not allow material from the Complete Psionics Book. The only difference is that the skills are all adjusted to Pathfinder and Hit dice will be increased one step. The thought process with this decision is that psionics in 3.5 were overpowered when compared with the other core classes. Since all classes got a boost in Pathfinder, in theory these classes should be more balanced now (if slightly underpowered). I use the Psionics-magic transparency rule.

Due to Athas' inhospitable nature the DC for the Survival check to “Get along in the wild” is increased to 15 base and providing for additional characters is done for one person for every 3 points that you succeed your check.

As water is so scarce, even to simply drink, swim is no longer a class skill for any class.
Barbarians receive Stealth as an in-class skill
Druids receive Linguistics
Fighters receive Perception
Monks receive Survival
Rangers receive Linguistics
Rogues receive Survival
Cavaliers receive Survival
Inquisitors receive acrobatics
Oracles of Nature receive Perception in Lou of Swim

Weapons
Simple Weapons Cost Dmg (M) Critical Range Weight Type Special
Light Melee Weapons
Talid 5 1d6 X2 - 1lb. P
Widow's Knife 1 1d4 19-20/X2 20 ft. 1lb
Wrist Razor's 1 1d4 X3 - 1lb. S.
Ranged Weapons
Dejada 10 1d6 X2 50 ft. 2lb. B Bullets as sling
Martial Weapons Cost Dmg (M) Critical Range Weight Type Special
One-Handed Melee Weapons
Aljulak 20 1d8 X2 - 5lb. P Disarm, Trip
Carrikal 15 1d8 X3 - 6lb. S Brutal 1
Two-Handed Melee Weapons
Maul 15 1d12 X3 - 14lbs B
Trikal 25 1d10 19-20/X2- 12lb. P or S Brace, Reach
Ranged Weapons
Chatkcha 10 1d6 19-20/X2 30 ft. 1lb. P
Exotic Weapons Cost Dmg (M) Critical Range Weight Type Special
Gauntlet Axe 25 1d8 X3 - 3lb S Shield
Puchik 3 1d6 19-20/X3- 1lb. P
Singing Stick 40 1d6 X2 - 2lb. B Disarm
Tortoise Blade 10 1d6 19-20/X2- 7lb. S Shield
Two-Handed Melee Weapons
Cahulaks 25 1d8/1d8 X2/X2 15 ft. 9lb. P Reach, Trip
Dragon's Paw 40 1d8/1d6 X3/18-20/X2- 10lb. P
Gouge 30 2d6 X3 - 12lb. S Brutal 1
Gythka 25 2d4/2d4 X3/X3 - 9lb. P
Lotulis 40 1d10/1d10 X3/X3 - 9lb. P
New Materials:
Obsidian: Hardness 7, Hit points 12/inch Special: 1Brutal, 2Brittle

Light Blade: H (Hardness) 7, HP (Hit Points) 1, Brutal 1
One-Handed Blade: H 7 HP 2, Brutal 1
Two-Handed Blade: H 7 HP 4, Brutal 2
One-Handed Hafted Weapon: H 7 HP 8
Etc.
1Brutal: These Weapons are covered in spikes or serrated edges and tend to do more damage than the average weapon. Anytime you roll the listed number or lower naturally on a damage die, you may roll again until you obtain a higher value on the die. If the weapon uses multiple die in one damage roll this quality applies to all die individually. Most weapons that can be wielded in one hand or ranged ammunition have Brutal 1 and two handed weapons have Brutal 2.
2Brittle: Due to their brittle nature, obsidian weapons loose 50% of their maximum hit points and gain the Broken condition on a confirmed critical fumble in addition to the fumbles normal affect.
Cost: Ammunition: +2 gp, Light: +20 gp, One-handed: +90 gp, Two-handed: +180 gp

Bone/Horn/Chitin Spikes: H 6, HP 9/inch Special: 3Wicked, 4Awkward

3Wicked: Wicked weapons gain a bonus on damage rolls equal to the Wicked rating. Ammunition, light and one-handed melee weapons generally receive Wicked 1 and Two handed weapons receive Wicked 2. This damage is not multiplied on a successful critical hit.
4Awkward: Awkward weapons are unwieldy and difficult to handle and attack with properly. As such these weapons bestow a -1 to all attack rolls with this weapon.
Cost: Ammunition: +1 gp, Light: +10 gp, One-handed: +45 gp, Two-handed: +90 gp

Starvation and Thirst
Characters might find themselves without food or water and with no means to obtain them. In normal climates, Medium characters need at least a gallon of fluids and about a pound of decent food per day to avoid starvation. (Small characters need half as much.) In very hot climates, characters need two or three times as much water to avoid dehydration.

A character can go without water for 1 day plus a number of hours equal to his Constitution score. After this time, the character must make a Constitution check each hour (DC 10, +1 for each previous check) or take 1d6 points of nonlethal damage.

A character can go without food for 3 days, in growing discomfort. After this time, the character must make a Constitution check each day (DC 10, +1 for each previous check) or take 1d6 points of nonlethal damage.

Characters who have taken nonlethal damage from lack of food or water are fatigued. Nonlethal damage from thirst or starvation cannot be recovered until the character gets food or water, as needed—not even magic that restores hit points heals this damage.

Tyr
LE Metropolis
Corruption: +3; Crime: -5; Economy: +2: Law: +5; Lore +1; Society: -1
Qualities: 6 (Notorious, Prosperous, Rumor Mongering Citizens, Superstitious, Strategic Location, Slave Intolerant)
Danger: +10
Demographics
Government: Overlord (King Tithian)
population: 30,000 (65% Human, 15% Dwarf, 10% Mul, 5% Elf, 5% Other)
City Components: Caravan, Artisan, Smiths', Merchant, Noble Districts, The Warrens, Stadium of Tyr, The Ziggurat of Kalak, The Golden City, The Golden Tower and Under-Tyr.
Notable NPCs
Minister of Defense Mashastra Dillon (LN Dwarven Female Ftr 7 Stalwart Defender 5)
MarketPlace
Base Value 27,200 gp; Purchase Limit 200,000 gp
Spellcasting 6th level
Minor Items All available; Medium Items 4d4 items; Major Items 3d4 items

Makes sense. We have been playing it as class abilities scale with class level but the wording for those particular aspects threw me off and i just wanted to be sure i was not missing something. Thanks for the explanations Starglim and Karjak!

Fair enough.
Please let me just say a few things however. The first is that the idea behind this "fix" is that it is an option for those DMs, who (like me) do not necessarily think the SLA and eidolon relationship works for them, but do NOT want to simply allow both at the same time (that is wayyyyy broken). The SLA is borderline broken imo so many of us share similar feelings despite what you may think. The domain option still gives a bit of spellcasting specifically related to summoning but would not add nearly as much as the SLA. The advantage is that a player would be able to support both spell and eidolon at the same time, but would be in the confines of the spells normally cast by the summoner (i.e not able to cast cha +3 summon monster III at 5th level or summon monster V at 9th level). Further compromises are that their summon monster spells are standard actions. As for this being a "free quicken", well they already had that in their SLA. They are also very limited by spells per day so it is unlikely they will cast all summon spells as they have other (i would argue) essential spells that they should use. Also turning a full round action is not really what i would call "game breaking". all it would give the summoner in effect is one more move action (minus 5 feet). It did not overthrow our game but then again as wraithstrike said it might work for ours not others which is why i was floating the change to you all if you wanted to try it. Thanks for the input!

Hello all,
I was wondering what your thoughts were on the Order of the Shield's first order ability, "resolute", which basically allows one to convert one lethal to one non lethal damage per attack if they are wearing heavy armor. my question is this; would you allow a player to change to a lesser armor type (i.e. get the ability when wearing only light armor or medium armor without the ability to change this later)? In other words why would you not allow this (balance wise)?

Second question, which at first seems stupid but has been bothering me and that is; For abilities like the "challenge" and the bards "bardic Performance" ability, both have similar wording for the bonus to damage and the # of rounds a bard can use "bardic performance" respectively. Technically both are worded to say that they increase as they gain in levels, but one could easily read it to say that it is referring to the character's level and not the class level in their respective class. For the bard for example it reads "At each level after 1st a bard can use bardic performance for 2 additional rounds per day." So if a bard multiclasses, would he still get 2 more rounds of bardic performance even from other levels (understanding nothing else would increase related to that performance)? For the cavalier, it could be interpreted similarly (ie. the damage increases with character level not class level). I understand that under the multiclassing paragraph in the core rulebook it says that class abilities are usually specific to the class level as far as progression, but then again it does also say "most" meaning not all. Other abilities under different classes are usually worded differently and specifically include the "class level" clause. Please advise.

They have about 40 spell levels per day less than a druid at 20th level and the druids animal companion has one more hit die on average at nearly every level up until that point.

Hehe i realized that my post was broken so i am going to try to restate what i said above. What i meant to say was that the animal companion has one more HD than the Eidolon and that it is the animal companion that does not disappear in a battle once a druid/ranger/paladin etc drops below 0 HPs.

Also one of their main spells and the SLA can be easily thwarted by a 1st level spell that is common to any spellcasting class, even the 9th level variant of summon monster...

What i was getting at here was the spell or equivalent of protection from good/evil/law/chaos, or circle of protection for that matter. Sorry for the messiness.

My god, #2? You're takin one of the most powerful classes in the game and making them even more insane.

In my game, the summoner (even with the alterations mentioned above) was not outshining any class. The only "spellcasting" class it has more spell levels able to be cast per day is the bard, all other far outshine it (including versatility in spell effects and higher DCs). They have about 40 spell levels per day less than a druid at 20th level and the druids animal companion has one more hit die on average at nearly every level up until that point. They also don't disappear when you fall asleep or worse yet are dropped in battle. Summoners also lack the innate ability to heal themselves... so it doesn't really matter how beefy their eidolon is, all a bad guy has to do is recognize it is a summoner (simple knowledge arcana check) and focus forward firepower on the summoner:). Also one of their main spells and the SLA can be easily thwarted by a 1st level spell that is common to any spellcasting class, even the 9th level variant of summon monster... My point being that i really don't agree they are already overpowered to begin with.

As for the "balance" issue with a free watch, well in my game when the summoner slept, so too did the eidolon, so again a relatively easy fix. That said, any class has access to a free "watch" so i don't really see the logic in this argument. A ranger, paladin and druid all have their animal companions, wizard and some sorcerers have their familiars, many spellcasting classes have alarm, hell 1st level commoners can buy guard dogs and 1st level PCs can hire the 1st level commoner lol.

Hello all! I just wanted to share my idea I implemented in my last group and seemed to work well so i thought i would share it with the Pathfinder community for peer review. This alternate build helps address what has been brought up multiple times on the forum and might help some of you in your games, or be horribly flawed. Either way here goes...:

1. Get rid of SLA monster summoning.
2. Add "Summoning Specialist" (effectively a domain)
-Granted power: All Conjuration (Summoning) spells that have a casting time of 1 round will be cast as a standard action instead. (please note that the durations are not extended in this version)
Specialist (Domain) Spells: 1st - Summon monster I, 2nd - Summon monster II, 3rd Summon monster IV, 4th - Summon monster V, 5th - Summon Monster VII, 6th - Summon monster IX
-add one "specialist" Spell (domain spell)to the number of spells a summoner can cast per day, at each level that must be used to cast the Specialist spell of that level. This spell is not a spell-like ability and can be used in conjunction with the Eidolon and other Summon monster spells.
3. Summoners now automatically Know the above spells once they attain the level at which they can be cast.
4. Add Summon Natures ally (I, II, IV, V, VII and IX) into the respective Spell List parallel to the Summon monster line (but they are not automatically known).
5. We houseruled out the Eidolon disappearing when you sleep.

Anyways that it. Kinda simple really. Thoughts?

Hello all! I had a quick question as to whether other DMs allow their players to swap out feats in the event of casting a summon monster spell. This came up a few games ago and i did not have any problem with this at the time as the player was willing to put in the time to prepare his summoned monsters for the game to make his turn go faster and it seemed logical that you would be able to summon monsters that might not be cookie cutter versions of the species (making sure they keep bonus feats and qualify for the feats of course). Has anyone seen any rulings about this, I've looked everywhere and looked through the sourcebook but i have found nothing to say one way or the other. I am mainly looking for rulings but i would be interested in opinions too. Thanks!

Thanks, will do.

I am new to the greater Seattle area and currently live just north of the University District. Are there any groups out there looking for new players? I am looking for a more mature group. I have been playing RPGs most of my life and have everything i need to play.