Gold Dragon

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WalterGM wrote:

I'm a little staggered at the suggestion to penalize the people that make the fairly huge investment of time and resources to GM because PCs die at their table. If the suggestion is that we should penalize those GM's that cheat in order to kill PCs, I agree. Cheaters should be punished. But crippling those that are running the RAW, simply because the rolls haven't been in the players favor is ridiculous IMO.

If a GM is overly gloating, or making players uncomfortable, then you have an issue that's not related to the death of a PC. That's just someone being a tool.

We shouldn't make any sort of hard and fast rule that penalizes the people that essentially make PFS happen. Because even if the intent is pure, I guarantee that we'd loose a lot of your part time GMs. I hear it already: "Why should I ever GM if there's a chance that I could get less than I would from playing?" And really, why would they.

What the original point of the post that started this (i.e Wolflord)is that a GM should share the burden of PC deaths. I will go out on a limb, unlike so many of you, and agree fully with that concept. Walter points out, like others, that why should a GM, who puts such "time and effort" into an adventure be punished... are you kidding me. I am both a GM and a player and have seen how much "time" goes into these adventures and it is nothing... yes Nothing... when compared to the time a player puts into a character with sheer playing time. Let me illustrate my point. Lets say a player to a table with a 4th level character can join a game and that DM kills the entire party. RAW says only the players are required to pay the penalty of death. One player who dies this way looses what at least 36 hours (if they cannot afford a res and assuming 4 hour sessions) compared to the DMs what 3 hours for prep... Even if they can afford a res, they loose 16 PA (taking 8 games or 32 hours of play) to make up PER Character. Your argument is flimsy at best and completely DM centric. We as DMs should be embracing the fun of the game, not "realism". If you want realism, then get off the computer and go running or something. This is a fantasy game... I am much more interested in looking out for the newer players and making sure they had fun than i am about looking out for DMs. PFS is supposed to be RAW and i'm not recommending that be changed at all, but rather that DMs should also live by that sword and share the burden. Currently, there is no penalty to a GM for a player death, and as has been said before MOST (99%) of games do not even have character deaths. For those games the penalty is not an issue. But, for that small percentage that does, I believe strongly that a real penalty be given to DMs. One can easily justify it as the danger that the DMs character is in (the one who receives credit). Examples of penalties might include making DMs pay for a 6th of the cost in PA -or- gold that would be incurred by players raising their party or make them pay the difference in PA/gold for the minimum res if they (the player) cannot afford it (taken from a character in the DMs stable that has the PA/gold to spare), AND/OR if you have a party wipe, then the DMs character has also died and must pay the same cost as all players. If it is so "dangerous" questing as some of you have so astutely pointed out, then why should the GM get a pass with THEIR characters. This kind of rule will not normally affect most games, but will strongly affect those that are more interested in killing players. If they get upset at this and want to leave the game then i happily say "goodbye and don't let the door hit you on the way out". I have personally seen DMs who do get kicks on some level by killing players. I think some do hide behind the rules and set out to exert power over others. I personally will not play with ANY DM who has a "player kill tally" because i believe YOU fall into the above category. I hope that Paizo is keeping tabs on DMs with high kill rate cause i would be willing to bet that there are some out there that the numbers would speak for themselves. Before you all speculate that i have lost a character or three, think again. I have not died yet in PFS. I just think that we DMs should share the penalties with the group.