Hobgoblin Commander

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Tactical Drongo wrote:

the big thing with fey is that they have their individual nature - but at the same time are rather unpredictable

not to mention the first world is a really huge place

so the easy answer: however do you think is most interesting for your backstory

as you said, there is not much background lore

I still try to convey my general vibe for all answers to you, but don't nail me down on anything

1. Sprites are generally funloving and not very violent, some individuals may feel as great warriors but there will likely be no real big conflicts between familiy clans and those gonna be resolved with pranks and maybe a 'honor duel' which is supposed to be fair but both sides try to rig to their advantage

2. fey societies usually ask their eldest (not the gods, the actually oldest of the clan) or the one with the highest noble rank - note here that sprites like to think up noble ranks and try to use those to exert their supposed authority over 'lesser nobles'

3. same as 2

4.with how chaotic fey are this question is moot. whoever gains authority for whatever reason has it, gender doesnt matter

5. the more nobles there are, the higher the chance of them creating a court with the highest in charge and possibly subservient to another mightier/bigger court

6. usually it would be might makes right, so there is a natural tendency for the power to go to the eldest of the courts with that power often being magical
but generally that is up to the court/clan to relegate themselves
heck, for a group of sprite it could be 'whoever makes the best pranks'

summer and winter court are afaik really not a thing in pf but its general lore, not dnd specific
and the eldest are for all matters an purposes deities in the terms of rules

7. I think I answered that already with the points above, but my impression would be that powerful fey claim great swathes of land and appoint themselves as the rulers in whatever way they deem most fitting and with their magical power and authority they exert society within...

Thank you for taking the time to answer all my questions. I appreciate it. Yeah I think I might do as you suggested at the begining and simply just write something and check with the GM to see what works and what doesn't. With not a lot of official lore on the subject from Paizo we are kinda free to write it however we want I guess. I like your ideas I might use some of them.

I think though that it could be interesting if Paizo could revisit Fey as with a Book, maybe concentrated on the First world and different type of Fey, the Geography, Politics and just new interesting stuff.


Hello everyone,

(I apologize in advance if this was not the right section to post this, and for the long post) I have been working on an idea of a Sprite for Pathfinder 2e, Luminous Sprite... I've read the Sprite section in the Lost omens Ancestry Guide but I found that not sufficient for my needs. I want to write some extensive backstory for my character's Fey lineage going back multiple generation in the First World. So I have been searching on the Web for information about their lore which is scarce to say the least.

More specifically I would be interested in the way they organized their tribe or whatever it is they have when they group together. I've read the Sprite Section in the first edition of Fey Revisited. They mention in the book that Sprite live in group that range from 40 to several thousand. It describes their settlements as villages that are a group of several families or tribes. It also mentions a very large village called Allavelium built high in the trees of the Mwangi Expanse. This village is said to be so large that it actually rivals a large human city in size. Yet one problem remain (at least for me): The absence of hierarchical structure.

1- How do they resolve conflict as a tribe?
2- How do they take important decision that affect the entire tribe?
3- How and who is responsible for passing judgement on transgressors, criminals and wrong-doers, of their tribes?
4- Are they matriarchal or Patriarchal?
5- Do they have a leader or governing body?
6- If they have a Leader, do they have succession by blood or are these leaders elected?

I've read on wiki pages about the Eldest which I believe are the remnant of the Archfey from Dnd. In Dnd some of the Archfey like their Pathfinder counterpart (the Eldest) are Godlike beings in terms of power, similar to deities and are some of them are part of the Summer Court, or the Seelie Court. While some others are part of the Winter Court, the Unseelie Court. The Seelie/Summer and Unseelie/Winter Courts are saddly not present in Pathfinder lore.

I then spent a large portion of time researching lore about Sprite in Dnd. Which is almost as difficult to find as it is for Pathfinder.

7- Does anyone happen to know any lore about the Sprite's society, their hierarchical structure and how to do diplomacy, if they have royalty...etc?

8- Does anyone know any book that I could read that I could find some of the information I am looking for or relevant information, either from Pathfinder 2e, 1st or even any dnd editions?

or point me in the right direction...


Castilliano wrote:

...

As for why counterspelling became a feat limited to select classes and w/ different rules than a different game system w/ different (& IMO subpar) game balance is a question for Paizo, not players...

I am a player at my table not the DM for context.

I have no idea how to ask this question to paizo directly, but I saw in some thread that sometimes mods or other designer joins a discussion. Not sure how rare that happens. A part of me was hoping this might happen. Although I was not holding my breath.

As far as balance is concerned, if the player can do it to the NPC then is it not balance? It's a 2 ways street. Plenty of things players dont enjoy but, I think if both side can do it, then it's an tradeof. I mean sure, its annoying when it happens to you but its so fun when you do it to a villain and save another party member or the entire party from tons of damage.

I was sending a message text to my DM about it and I thought I would check the forum to see what people thought about it.

I think they have taken shortcut to fix issues, and don't trust the DM to be harsh but fair with their players. You don't want the player to suffer or abuse the mechanic of Demoralize on enemies but if you removed the immune (which I think is one of the worst decision Paizo ever made for a rule) then again it's a 2 way street. And also it makes 0 sense story wise that every single time you demoralize and scare someone they are immediately immune to any of your further attempt to scare them. IF there is a Gargantuan Dragon in front of me and I am level 1 and he roars to scare me and succeed, I don't see why I would be immune to further attempt from him.


Hello, So preparing for my upcoming game of Pathfinder, came upon the rule for counterspell. My exposition to this mechanic was actually from Critical Role, they are playing 5e so obviously it's not the same game but I don't understand why pathfinder doesn't change it to somethhing closer to 5e. Having to have the exact same spell in your spell list. There is over 100 lv 1 spell, 135 according to Archive of Nethys to be exact.

What are the odds that my LV1 or 2 Oracle who has access to 2 or 3 level 1 divine spell will be able to conteract? Even if I was level 20 I would have 29 spell, but only 3 of each level except level 10 spell. Counterspell in Pathfinder is basically = to dumb luck or your DM is going out of his way to use spell that you have on your spell list Both sounds insane. Please tell me I am missing something. Personnally I think counterspelling should be something you can do anything to any caster of the same level or lower. Spending a spell slot is already an extremely steep price to pay, I don't think it shoudl be necessary to know the spell and have it prepared.

Also with my oracle I most of my spell are passive healing or and helping my teammate to that means I can never hope to counterspell any magic...So I see an enemy casting fire ball, and hurl it at my ally. and then next turn he does the same thing . I recognize the pattern. But sorry you dont have fireball in your repertoire.

Do you think the rule should be change, if not why? and or do you use a house rule to make it more interesting?


Well you are all very reasonable, I would be a happy players with you as a DM. I truly mean that.

To be frank I didn't really think of all the other things that could be abusable by the Rogue as Graystone mention.

I really only wanted my hair to do the wolf drag thing, but was ready to take all the other feats for the hair and all of you are saying wouldn't even need me to take them because there is no benifit. That is really all I wanted. I dont care about the hair trait to be honest.

I guess there are always people trying to find way to break or abuse of some way to get more powerful.

I enjoyed this discussion. Even if we disagree on the ruling ultimately, as a player the thing you were offering was all I was looking for and I was ready to take all the feats. So yeah, thank you all for joining the discussion.


Baarogue wrote:

This is the rules discussion board. You had a question about the rules. It's been answered. Arguing with us about how "illogical" it is for blah blah whocares in a world where people can punch dragons to death isn't productive. If you want to homebrew what you think "makes more sense" or whatever, go for it. Try the homebrew board. Someone's probably beat you to it

The reason you're getting pushback on this HERE is because you're not the first guy to try for the slippery slope of "so can I use my natural bite/claws/etc. for this bite/claw/etc.-themed monk stance unarmed attack?" "yeah, sure" "okay, well then since my ancestry has venomous bites/claws/etc. that applies too, right?" "uh" and then you have a GM having to walk back what they intended to give you in goodwill because you argued for it to fit thematically but turned out to be some munchkin BS

I already wrote at the begining that I was thinking that I would use the damage dice of the strike and traits of both, but even then I wouldn't mind having just the trait from the strike.

I was making a build of a Dual Class alternate rule witch + monk and I was thinking it would be so cool to use her hair (I took all the feat to use her hair in combat.) to make the unarmed strike. She would assume the wolf stance and use her hair like a weapon cutting or piercing making the worlk jaw attack and tripping them. With the feat level 2 Living hair, you already gain the trip trait so it isn't super far fetch.

I don't think I am the first one, I saw other people asking similar question before I posted my thread. I don't mind the push back. I find it funny though that whenever someone question the logic of a rule or if a rule should be change plenty of people will come out saying well if you want to homebrew it just do it. Obviously if we want to homebrew it, even if you or the company was against it, we could still do it and no one could do anything to stop us so that is a mute point.

and if by munchkin you are insinuating that I am trying to break the game I am not. I am the kind of player that prefer role play above everything else. I am the kind of player that will multiclass into 7 different classes to create something unique even if I turned out super weak and very unoptimized. In most RPG I play I tend to have a very hard time getting to end game because I take whatever I think looks cool or fit the theme of my character and I don't care about stats or damage very much. Most of the time not at all.


Well first, no where it is written that a wolf Jaw strike requires the use of a fist or leg or any part of the body. All the stances do is tell you the position you assume and then tell you you can only or can make a strike. It doesn't explicitely say how the strike is given, with which part of the body. Contrary to spells or any other manoeuver or technique that all the time specifies the need for a free hand to use an ability.

It is implied by the class and the modifiers that this is the case. Not explicitely stated. Secondly, why not write that Stance Strike cannot be use with weapon. No where is it written that.

Thirdly, it comes down to the sentence;

though not if the feat or ability requires you to use a single specific type of attack, such as Crane Stance.

So doing the devil advocate against myself I would say, well the reason you can't use it with the Crane Stance is probably because the weapon cannot be use with the strike this is why you can't use it.

But why not explicitely write that stance strike require to be unarmed and cannot be used with any weapon(including monk weapon).

Now I am extrapolating from this is that we can indeed use these strike but certain stance are not compatible so certain strike are unfortunately unavailable. I could very well be at wrong for presuming such and as far as logic goes so all of you for assuming something that isn't explicitely stated.

Both of us are making assumption based on rule that are vague.

Because you firmly believe that I am wrong, you probably see my position as ridiculous. Why would it be impossible for a monk to use tiger claw technique with a claw weapon. It's thematically cool and it makes sense.


HammerJack wrote:
Nunchaku? Unarmed Attacks like Wolf Jaw are never delivered with weapons, even if you take Monastic Weaponry.

What is the point of taking Monastic Weaponry if not for that. If you can't used the stance properly than the feat is useless.


breithauptclan wrote:

Your rant is kinda bizarre.

For one, right out of the box with no feats needed a Monk can use their Ancestry's unarmed attacks with Flurry of Blows. And Ki Strike if you get that.

...

For those ancestries that have horns or claws or such, they don't even need to be a Monk in order to use such weapons in combat.

I believe that the part where you assume that only human needed to developped such technique is based on written rules that are borderline illogical.

Looking as the rule as written. I am saying that the rule as written are illogicals and that it is highly improbable that in a High fantasy world in which there are multiple races humanoid race with animal features that none of them have ever develop any sort of Martial Art fighting style that would take advantage of their natural weapon to create like the human monk more powerful striking technique.

I am also saying that since the rule allow the monk wiedling a nunchaku and another monk weapon or any monk weapon to use their Wolf Jaw attack than it stands to reason that with enough training these technique can be use with anything your fist or any weapon that you have sufficient training with. And by extension of that. If the monk can use a wolf Jaw strike with a nunchaku than which is normally a fist attack than what would prevent the monk from training with his fang and use his fang instead of his fist or nunchaku to deliver the Wolf Jaw attack.


Cordell Kintner wrote:
I'm going to pull this away from Powerful Fist and back to OP's question.... This is because the Dragon Tail style is a form of martial arts that explicitly uses your legs. You would have trained specifically to use your legs to make the strikes, so subbing in a tail doesn't really help you. The "flavor text" isn't really flavor when it comes to stances, as they describe how those stances make their strikes, or more specifically, how you would have trained to make those strikes.

Hello again, thank you all for weighing in on this,

I can see how the intention of the writer may have been that these strike have nothing to do with the actual natural weapon and are simply inspired by pop culture depiction of Chinese martial arts where martial artist are inspired by wild animal to fight in certain position.

I would be lying though if I didn't say that the fact that the damage dice and type is modified just because the humanoid is assuming a lower stance is bothering me slightly but hey it's a game, its a special ability. It's a magical world right! With those 3 poor reason to justify the change in type and damage.

Now how ridiculous is it that in a fantasy world, where humanoid of different species coexisting on the same planet. That Monks across all races have never been able to develop the ability to use their natural weapon in combat no way, shape or form. Only human are capable or smart enough to invent martial arts. No other creature intelligent creature who would have witness such feats would have had the idea of training their body in similar fashion. Using their natural gift/weapon as weapon in their stance.

You would think that Flying race may have develop martial art adapted to the freeform of movement of those able to fly or glide. Some, Races with horns would for sure train to use them in combat. I'll end my ranting here.

The fact that monk are able to transfer their technique to any monk weapons or ancestry weapon with the appropriate feat indicate that at the end of the day. The technique doesn't really actually require any part of the body. It's mostly a stance and a philosophy of movement. The part of the body or weapon used is by the Lore and rule of the game is irrelevant and that is the undisputed reality. If you are a monk and have the monastic weaponry feat and the ancestry weaponry you can use your stance with those weapon and those strike with those weapons. (except those that only allow stance strike) Taking that into account I don't see why a monk couldn't have train to use his technique with other part of the body. I think it's a completely valid option and if the player would use the same Damage Dice. I don't see what wrong. It is lore friendly and it is a lot less crazy than using actual weapons. I understand if the DM allows it is ok. But I believe this should be the norm not a Homebrew or alteration.


Hello,

I have a question for you more experience Players. Regarding the monk and their martial stance such as Wolf Stance for example.

https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=437

Its written for the fluff; You enter the stance of a wolf, low to the ground with your hands held like fanged teeth. You can make wolf jaw unarmed attacks.

But the next sentence mechanically it's written; You can make wolf jaw unarmed attacks. These deal 1d8 piercing damage; are in the brawling group...

My questions;

1- Is the Wolf Jaw unarmed attack actually a jaw attack, like a bite? I am assuming that it is not. That it's just like flavourful martial art striking technique named this way and not an actual Jaw attack (like your character biting with his teeth the enemy) am I right? It's suppose to be something similar to Dragon Ball's Yamcha Wolf Fang Fist right?

2- If my assumption is correct than, would you as a DM if I was a player allow me to use another natural weapon like Dhampir fang or Lizardfolk Fang unarmed attack as the Wolf Jaw attack. Would that be something acceptable? Like using the stats of the Wolf Jaw but describing it as using an actual Bite with my dhampir fangs as the physical part of the body used.

3- Alternatively what about the Dragon Stance dragon tail attack,

https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=431

if I have the Ganzi heritage with the Smashing Tail feat

https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=2535

which allow the Ganzi to use their tail as a unarmed attack. Would that be ok for the character to use his tail for the Dragon Stance instead of his legs?

I was thinking it would use the damage dice of the stance and add the traits from the unarmed body part to the strike.


Hello, looking at the Pathfinder wiki I came upon one of the coolest(in my opinion) Outsider creature I seen in the entire bestiary of Pathfinder. The Cetaceal

https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Cetaceal

Basically a Neutral Good Celetial Creature (or Agathion) that dwells in Nirvana (the Neutral Good Plane). An aquatic humanoid female with an Orca tail. Armed with a short spear.

1- Anyways, does that creature currently exist in 2nd Edition?

I checked on the Archive of Nethys, in the Agathion family creature but it is not listed.

2- If not, what is your position about the lore of 1st Edition being still valid if not retcon by anything from 2nd Edition?

3- Does that fall into Homebrew territory or is that like a official position from the Paizo that until written otherwise we are ok to assume anything that hasn't been revised from 1st still hold true?

4- Assuming the creature exist but simply does not have a stats, what would be the closest thing to it, I was thinking maybe I could reskin an existing creature?

** If possible one creature that that I would have the ability to polymorph into **

5- (My attempt) Alternatively, would you allow the following at your table;

Celetial Form Assimar Heritage Feat LV 17
Presquisite: Angelkin, Emberkin, Idyllkin, Lawbringer, Musetouched or Plumekith and able to cast angel form with a spell slot
Frequency: Once per day

You've discovered how to transform into the form of your Celestial ancestor. Once per day, you can cast 8th-level angel form as an innate divine spell, transforming into the following depending on your lineage;

Angelkin - Any Celestial with the Angel trait
Emberkin - You transform into a Peri
Idyllkin - Any Celestial with the Agathion trait
Lawbringer - Any Celestial with the Archon trait
Musetouched - Any Celestial with the Azatas trait
Plumekith - You transform into a Garuda

Obviously, each would have the same core stats and each form would have varying weapons and traits choise based on the different creature with those traits.


Hello, I am making a character build in Pathbuilder and I came upon this spell Dinosaur Form

https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=72

At the bottom of the page it says that if you cast it Heightened (7th) which give you a gargatuan size battle form...But that would require casting a spell level 11...???

Is there a way to cast a Level 11 spell with a character level 20 or lower or what does that mean exactly?


breithauptclan wrote:

Tiefling has Form of the Fiend which gives one of several unarmed attacks. None of them are horns, but I wouldn't have a problem with re-describing the jaws attack as horns instead.

I'm not seeing anything from Ifrit though. The closest I find is Lavasoul but that requires a free hand to use. So it would be really hard to describe it as a horn attack.

Quote:
My DM has given us permission to use the Variant Multiclass rule. So I ended up taking for Background; Detective and Investigator as a primary class and Barbarian as my secondary.
One minor thing I would point out is that Rage and Devise a Strategem don't mix. Not at all by default, and it costs another action to use Moment of Clarity. Doesn't mean that you can't play the character - a lot of the utility of Investigator is out of combat anyway. It just means that you won't be using Devise a Strategem during combat if you are Raging.

I can't use moment of clarity then use stratagem?


I am not a DM of Pathfinder but I have been a DM of Vampire the masquerade for about 15 years so I hope this might have given me a bit of wisdom about this kind of problem.

I would say it depends. It depends on your intent and also it depends about if the object is out of sight, stored or hidden**.

If the object is out of sight but you don't particularly care either way if the player find a specific item or not, then A check about the room may be all that is enough to point toward interesting area of the room. Something about the way the furniture or something attracts your attention and rummaging through the papers on the desk and looking through each drawers you find...

While if the object has been hidden by someone in other word someone has actively put some effort in making sure no one finds the object then, I would wait for the player to ask more question and investigate until they may find something weird or out of place that may clue them to where the object may be hidden.

Ultimately though, there is always the issue of the item being very important like a magical artifact hidden in secret stash under the floor. You may think that if the player do not find the artifact the game will stall to no end, but feel that it would cheapen the experience if they find it right away.

You could always put some event that force the player to move on, but maybe a third party following the group to that area manage to find the stash and somehow clumsily and carelessly find himself at a tavern in the way of the party. Maybe the Party over hear a discussion between another party about a previous patron who left the tavern earlier bragging about how he stole the amulet right under the party nose and set up a hunt for the Thief and the magical amulet.

If you are rolling on a random table of content for what is in the room, then it doesn't really matter if they search a specific part or the entire room.(At least in my opinion).

Edit: as Ascalaphus mention in his post, time is also of great importance. More so if the object has been hidden or maybe the room is very large or something is interferring with the search like if the party has broken into an office and are trying to search while not being discovered or actively making stealth check to avoid being detected by a partolling guard. Or if the building is on fire and they need to leave now. Or if the room is a completely mess. Broken furniture, glass, papers foot and broken chairs everywhere.

Time players are ready to put into the search should definitely matter. Even more so if there is an element of time constraint or the room is just so large that superficial search would not be sufficient.


Character Idea

Tinker Bell meets Sherlock holmes/(Marvel) Bruce Banner/Hulk...I know! hear me out.

So I was thinking of a character concept basically inspired by Tinker Bell in the movie adaptation of Peter Pan, Hook. In this movie, both Peter Pan and Tinker Bell are now adult and Tinker Bell falls in love with Pan. Long-story short, Tinker Bell makes a wish to become Human Size hoping that she could be with Pan, have a sort of romance together... I'm a s*cker for impossible love story anyways. So I was thinking creating a character inspired by this. Well more specifically, a Fairy who would hopefully has the ability to shift into a human size version of herself.

As far as her personality was concerned, I imagined her to be socially awkward, sort of like the TV series Adaptation of Sherlock Holmes with Benedict Cumberbatch. A sort of talent for projection like the Sherlock holmes movie adaptation with Robert Downey Jr. At the start of the story, She would definitely be more on the Mischievous and Evil side (More selfish and a lack of social etiquette or respect for it) but I can see her growing into more of a fierce Mother Bear character who may channel her darker impulse toward her enemies and enjoy hurting those who hurts her friends but not too much but maybe a little.

Lucky me! There is the Sprite Ancestry and I think the Luminous sprite fits my Idea like a glove. About the ability to change size. I Notice that the Druid Wild Shape can be upgraded with two Class feats; Thousand Face (You gain the Humanoid form for your Wild Shape) and Form Control a Meta Magic feat (Increase the duration of wild shape to 1 hour instead of the normal time).

Now for the edgier parts. I wanted her to also be a capable melee combatant. Then, thinking about the changing size again, I thought: Wouldn't it be funny if the smallest creature in our the party became the largest of all them. Like a big hulking beast. Like Bruce Banner from Marvel, she would be an intellectual in her base form and if or should I say, when the proverbial shit hits the fan lol! She goes into rage and transform into a enormous monster and trash all her enemies. Lucky again for me, the game actually has the Barbarian Class with the Giant Instinct; At level 6 you can select the class feat Giant's Stature, which makes your character Large Size while raging. Then, at level 12, you can select the class feat Titan's Stature, which makes makes the character Huge size while raging. Which is 100% what I wanted. That's amazing. My DM has given us permission to use the Variant Multiclass rule. So I ended up taking for Background; Detective and Investigator as a primary class and Barbarian as my secondary.

=========================================================================== ==================

Now to my problem;

So I would like for my character to have horns that are usuable in combat. What sort of options do I have. Preferably before reaching level 20. But any suggestion would be welcome ?

I plan on asking my DM if I could have a special permission to take Barbarian as a Dedication Feat so that I can take a second instinct. Then choosing the Animal Instinct(Deer) to have Antlers. They also gain another feat Animal Skin which I think would go the this concept greatly. But I doubt this will be possible. But I think I would only have the antlers while raging and I was hoping that she could keep them if only, as a cosmetic thing, adding to that Fae from the first world weirdness and I was imagining her having chains and jewelry hanging between the branches of her antlers.

I thought I might have selected Tiefling as a heritage thinking they would give me horn usuable in combat, but they don't appear to have horn usuable in combat.


Temperans wrote:

7- As mentioned by Sibelius, unless told otherwise assume that an immortal creature who dies is permanently deleted. What makes mortals special is that their physical body and souls are not fused.

8- No peris wouldn't be born from fallen valkyries. The reason being that valkyries are almost exclusively chaotic neutral female warriors from the maelstrom. It also wouldn't be the lawful variant given those are dwarfs who got a very specific alternate condition.

8.5- While many creatures can "fall" that...

7- Yes as I wrote in my second post I did say I was going on the assumption (as stupid as it was) that Peris even though classified as Celestial are in fact Half breed or just human with angel Lineage, that they are mortal themselves, and so would be able to be petitioner.

So I don't know if anyone in the community ever thinks of things like that maybe its just my crazy brain going crazy but, so most of the names of found in the bestiary are I am assuming meant IRL for us as classification but in lore they are humanoid words used to described the world they see. Maybe scribes, erudites , intellectual writting down their assumption and discoveries for future generation. Generals and Kings and commanders writting in their journal what new tribe of people and wildlife they have come in contact with. And so where I am going with this? A rant that where lol. Anyways what I am getting at is that Peri(s) is just a word and looking at the lore. There is nothing that actually point at any difference as far as genetic are concerned. Or even transformation. It isn't clear that their ancestor angel didn't have flamy wings. Their biggest differences are their alignement or propensity for evil but as far as I'm concerned any creature could change aligment if there is a will and if the need present itself.

To me, Peris is either one of two things, its either a word use by humanoid or some other sapient intelligent race who has classified the progeny of fallen angels as peris with an etymology that may have been lost through the ages or maybe one of the first humanoid to interact with them where told by a group of them that they refer to themselves as such maybe a word with a Positive inclination to their circumstances such as The liberated or the free or a word of bad inclination like, the fallen or something to that effect in shame of their circumstances. Like their cross to bear, a way to humble themselves and remember where they came from. But are they really different creatures? And then you might say well, if they aren't, why even bother making a bestiary entry. Well that is a good question. I don't have a good answer to. But I stand my ground on that particular issue that it isn't clear to me at all that Peris are a genetically different creature than their forebears. I think that they are just are progeny of a group of evil angel who dwell on the material plane trying to do the most with their current predicaments.

To your point of 8 and 8.5 also. My logic was in the sense of 2nd edition they are now Chaotic Good and say a creature is pull toward evil and is constantly trying to do good but evil as a sway over them, would it be such a strech to find a Peri in the Chaotic Neutral instead of Chaotic Good. Right in the middle wanting to do both. Finding the most comfortable position to be in the middle. Also as mention above as far as I am concerned Peris is just a humanoid word for fallen I don't think the peris are actually a different creature then their ancestor. And now thinking again about Ragathiel and how Dispater himself was believe to be once an Angel. Makes me think that being a devil doesn't actually mean you are a different race. Dispater must still genetically be an angel for him to be able to father an Angel. Not a half angel mind you. So Devil may be like the word Sith like it was use in the old Star Wars expanded universe where initially may have refer to the inhabitants of a planet with red skin and all that but eventually became an umbrella term to refer to any Dark Jedi. So a Devil may also be an umbrella term to refer to any outsider creature of a substancial power dwelling in Hell. With most if not all creature being Lawful evil.


Sibelius Eos Owm wrote:

Ooh, an interesting lore question with citations! This should probably be in the setting thread below, but I'll still bite.

Many of these questions I feel don't have established answer yet, or may never.

1- Unclear; we know likely that most fallen angels were those who chose to follow Asmodeus' exodus to Hell. How and whether peri relate to them is unknown.

2,3,4,5- I can't say for sure. I'm inclined to believe they are not half-mortal, but I don't know a lot of details about how celestial reproduce among themselves except when new ones arise from ascended souls. I don't know how many explicitly fallen angels there remain in the setting, but the original devils were likewise created from fallen angels, so I believe at this distant age there could well have been sufficient population for fallen-fallen pairs to spawn the original generation of peri.

6- Erinyes exemplify the distant history of devils as fallen angels but aside from that I don't think there's any particular link.

7- if I understand correctly, immortals (ie outsiders, celestials, monitors, fiends) do not go before Pharasma when they die. Merely their quintessence breaks down and flow back into the planes, crumbling back into terrain or flowing into the Maelstrom's antipode depending on circumstance.

8- Valkyrie are not angels, so whether an evil-turned valkyrie becomes something special is unclear. Likely they would be something different if anything at all; the difference between good and evil doesn't matter as much to an aeser.

Thank you for taking the time to answer,

for number 7 I must say I was going on the my assumption that peri are in fact no different than assimar even though they are identified as Celestial, but yes I guess it makes sense in the sense that they are Celestial their soul and body are 1 so there isn't a sepparation.

For number 8 I was going on the idea of a servitor falling from the grace of the Deity they serve, they would be their own thing but essentially would the're be a difference. I was sort of assuming that Monitor serve the same function as Celestial but for the Neutral outer planes. So I assume that falling fram grace of their Deity would have a process that is the Monitor version of losing connection to their Deity and all that it entails.


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1st Edition

https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Peri-blooded
Outside Native
Alignment NG
Peri-blooded, or emberkin as they are sometimes called, is the name given to aasimars who are descended from peri.

https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Peri
Outsider Good, Native
Alignment NG
Peris are native to the good-aligned Outer Planes, but they are also often found in the company of mortals on the Material Plane. They do penance for the sins of their fallen angel ancestors to earn a place in paradise, and work tirelessly to aid mortal heroes against evil.

https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Nirvana
Denizens Peris

https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Aasimar
Aasimar
Origins
Most aasimars alive in Golarion today are not, in fact, direct descendants of celestials, but are generated from holy blessings or the leftover energies of holy places. If they do descend from celestial beings, their ancestry is at least one step removed from the original introduction of that blood: the child of a union of a mortal with a celestial being is a half-celestial, not an aasimar. Aasimars may be born from the union of the half-celestial with another mortal being. The possibility of an aasimar birth continues to many generations after that union, even when two mortals have children, so long as one of the mortals is a direct descendant of the half-celestial. Although half-celestial creatures come in many shapes and forms, aasimars are only born from humanoids.

https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Angel
The term "angel" is sometimes used as a catch-all term for any sort of good outsider, especially one like the azatas, archons, or agathions, but for the purpose of this article, the term will only refer to true angels,[3] such as the following types listed in order of ascending power and importance:

Note: Peris are not part of the list so I am assuming they are not true angels.

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-Aasimar/#TOC- Peri-Blooded-Emberkin-
Outsider (native)
Alignment NG
Peri-Blooded (Emberkin)
Emberkin reveals their divine heritage through their skill with fire-based magic and their desire to repent for others’ sins. Many emberkin suffer from frequent nightmares and strange impulses to commit spontaneous acts of evil. They typically have igneous features such as wispy auburn hair and bright yellow eyes, and a rare few are born with albino skin. Emberkin often feel an insatiable need to continually perform acts of good. Some are content to perform small acts of kindness at home, though they may feel driven to travel regularly in order to find pockets of true evil that they can eradicate.

Like all Aasimars, emberkin are not necessarily compelled to embrace good and justice. Perhaps more so than most of their celestial kith, emberkin have a propensity to revolt against their benevolent predisposition and instead follow a darker path. Perhaps these emberkin are evil by nature, or perhaps it is a remnant of their fallen angel ancestry. Either way, such wicked individuals are often dangerous, and are both pitied and hunted down by their aasimar brethren.

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/peri
Outsider Good, Native
Alignment NG
Peri
Peris are a race of celestials native to the good-aligned Outer Planes, but they are also often found in the company of mortals on the Material Plane. Believed to be the descendants of fallen angels, peris do penance for their ancestors’ sins before they can earn a place in paradise. As a result, peris work tirelessly to aid and support good heroes of the mortal realms in a never-ending battle against evil. Peris hate the evil fiends known as divs, who constantly seek to ruin the good works of mortals. Peris often work to repair damage wrought by the destructive divs. For their part, the divs take great pleasure in tormenting and persecuting peris, locking the fiery-winged celestials in cages of cold iron and endlessly torturing them.

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/angel/
Fallen Angels
Many religions include stories of angels rebelling against a creator or becoming corrupt and evil. Sadly, this is indeed possible, though thankfully rare, and only the proudest or weakest-willed angels succumb to this fate. Fallen angels are exiles of the good realms, hunted by their former brethren and easy targets for fiends as well. The fallen lose some of the grace and light of their untainted kin, though many are said to still be tragically beautiful. Rarer still are those fallen angels strong and clever enough to join the legions of Hell, and who are often transformed into some type of devil, or those who become demons of the Abyss and carve out a niche in that horrible realm or come to serve a greater demon.
==========================================================================

2nd Edition

https://2e.aonprd.com/Monsters.aspx?ID=1262
CELESTIAL FIRE
Alignment CG
Though they eschew servitude and the worship of gods, many peris consider themselves friends and allies of Atreia, the Lambent King, the imprisoned elemental lord of fire. They guard and conceal his holy sites from his enemies and send mortals out in search of his prison, the Garnet Brand, hoping to bring the benevolent force of exalted light and fire back into the multiverse.

https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=2283
Emberkin
A peri's roaring spirit burns in your soul. Peris engage in constant struggle to right the wrongs of their fallen forebears, and that struggle has been passed on to you. You have a direct impulse to right wrongs and better the world. You gain a +1 circumstance bonus to saving throws against fire effects, and your perception is unaffected by non-magical flames, fog and smoke.

https://2e.aonprd.com/Traits.aspx?ID=23
Celestial
Creatures that hail from or have a strong connection to the good-aligned planes are called celestials. Celestials can survive the basic environmental effects of planes in the Outer Sphere.

https://2e.aonprd.com/Traits.aspx?ID=72
Fire
Effects with the fire trait deal fire damage or either conjure or manipulate fire. Those that manipulate fire have no effect in an area without fire. Creatures with this trait consist primarily of fire or have a magical connection to that element. Planes with this trait are composed of flames that continually burn with no fuel source. Fire planes are extremely hostile to non-fire creatures.
==========================================================================

Difference between editions. Peri now use the Celestial trait (Outsider no longer being in use in 2e) instead and are Chaotic Good instead of Neutral Good. They also have the Fire trait.

2nd Edition still acknowledges the fact that Emberkin are descendants of Peri and themselves descendants of fallen, although they do not specify which creature has fallen, but I think we can make an educated guess that they are fallen angels.

We know that Aasimars are not half angel in 1st Edition, the 2nd is very vague but I have the feeling we are not supposed to be Half Angel either.
==========================================================================

My questions;

1- How did the Peris come to exist?

2- Are they half-Celestial themselves ?

Peris refer to the fallen as their ancestor, and even then, some say believe to be descendants which alludes to the fact that there have been so many generations of them that the truth has been forgotten.

3- In this case, would it be correct to assume that Peris were generally born of two fallen (Angels)?

4- and future generations were born of Two Peris?

5- I would assume them to be born of two peris, because if they were born from a humanoid and a Half-Celestial or Peris, wouldn't that make them essentially Aasimar themselves?

But then the lack of examples of Fallen angels aside from Eisbeth and a few Devil, leads me to believe that there may not have been any other Fallen angel to procreate with, which leads me to believe that Peris were the progeny of Fallen Angel and humanoid.

Which would make them at best Half Celestial and eventually Aasimar. I just find it weird that there is a distinction between Aasimar Emberkin and the Peris when by definition they are the same, if you assume that they are themselves also descendants of both Celestial and Humanoid.

https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Erinys
Erinyes—also known as fury devils, the Ash Wings, the Fallen, fallen angels, the Furies of Hell,[1] or simply the Furies—are fiends created in mockery of the angelic form with a beauty that belies their utterly sadistic, evil nature. They are the avengers and executioners of Hell.

6- Was there ever any intention to connect the Peris to the Erinyes?

Bonus question
Lastly I also have been reading about Valkyrie, River of Soul and Monitor which is a trait that represents being from the neutral outer plane. I understand that depending on which deity a creature was worshiping she would be sent to a different plane, and petitioners of exceptional quality may be chosen as warriors by a deity of that plane. Like an Angel or a Valkyrie for example.

7- Theoretically, Could a Peris who died being CN and worshiping Gorum have been reborn as a Valkyrie?

8 - What about a fallen Valkyrie, if angel can fall, Valkyrie can probably fall too. Could a Peri be descendant from a Fallen Valkyrie?


Hello,

I am in need of your help again. I am trying to create a new character with the Pathbuilder app and so I created a Lawful Evil Paladin with the Tyrant Cause who worships the Osirian deity Set (Lord of the Dark Desert) [NE]. At level 3, I took the Divine Ally Steed Class Feature. And finally, at Level 20, the Class Feat Fiendish Mount.

My problem is, I don't have a single clue what sort of creature Set has for Servitor. It is written on that it gains wings based on the type of servitors and a appropriate trait. Essentially, I am assuming fluff wise taking a semblance of the Deity servitor. I am not very knowledgeable about the Lore of Pathfinder so I've been searching for a few hours on Google trying to find out what sort of creature Set has for servitors. I haven't found anyting.

Does anyone know if Paizo or even a third party ever release any book that may have mention something about servitors of Osirion Deities, by any chance Set. Even if its from 1st Edition? If not, as a DM how would you suggest I go about it?


Thank you so much all of you. I was expecting that it was just the stats of the dragon form and specific below ,but I was hoping maybe :). I think I am going to go the route of Oread or maybe beastkin not sure. That greater animal sense thing I'll look into both. You guys are great, have a good rest of your day or night.


Hello, I am new to pathfidner, I've played both video games Kingmaker and WOTR a little but generally speaking I am not very familiar with the rule system and class and all. My friend and I are preparing for a campaign. I would like to be a warrior type character if possible who could later eventually turn into a Brass Dragon (reason for Brass is that I saw that Brass dragon have in their stat block Tremorsense and a Burrow speed. I was hoping I could be maybe be a Barbarian who would transform into a Dragon and plunge into the Earth like a sandworm in Dune or whatever and then come out of the Earth bitting and Breathing Fire.

How would I go about achieving something like that? Additional info, I built a class on Pathbuilder but looking at the information on the website, I am unsure if I would be able to do what I am trying to do. I chose a Barbarian with Dragon Instinct Type Brass but on the archives of Nethys it is written;

Dragon Form (https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=88)
You gain the following statistics and abilities regardless of which battle form you choose

I was wondering are the listed stats on Dragon Form the only one you have or should I simply refer to the bestiary stats block and replace the affected stats of the stat block with those of the dragon form? And If Dragon form doesn't give me the Burrow speed and tremor sense what would be the most effective cost efficient way to become that if at all possible?


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Gisher wrote:
Arcaneumkiller wrote:

...

Why would you even bother with choosing a feat to gain access to Elf feat when just by being a Half-Elf you have access to Human, Elf and Half Elf Feats ?
...

Elf Atavism isn't getting you access to Elf ancestry feats. As you said, half-elves already have that. Elf Atavism lets you add an Elf Heritage to your character. A heritage is not an ancestry feat so it wouldn't be available to a half-elf without Elf Atavism.

For example: A human can select Half-elf as their heritage, take Elf Atavism as their first level ancestry feat, and select the Cavern Elf Heritage to get darkvision.

Thank you for your reply, I think I should go to bed, I apologize. I don't know how I confuse the too, it's early in the morning and was up all night.


Core rulebook page 58

ELF ATAVISM FEAT 1
HALF-ELF
Your elven blood runs particularly strong, granting you features far more elven than those of a typical half-elf. You may also have been raised among elves, steeped in your elven ancestors’ heritage. You gain the benefits of the elf heritage of your elven parent or ancestors. You typically can’t select a heritage that depends on or improves an elven feature you don’t have. For example, you couldn’t gain the cavern elf’s darkvision ability if you didn’t have low-light vision. In these cases, at the GM’s discretion, you might gain a different benefit. Special You can take this feat only at 1st level, and you can’t retrain out of this feat or into this feat.

But Core rulebook page 56

Half-Elf
Either one of your parents was an elf, or one or both were half-elves. You have pointed ears and other telltale signs of elf heritage. You gain the elf trait and low‑light vision. [In addition, you can select elf, half-elf, and human feats whenever you gain an ancestry feat.]

Why would you even bother with choosing a feat to gain access to Elf feat when just by being a Half-Elf you have access to Human, Elf and Half Elf Feats ?

I think in the book it should be written, at GM discretion, to allow Heritage + Heritage (replacing the all feats from the ancestry with those of the 2nd Heritage) Because aside from Half elf and Half Orc all other characters with an heritage only get feats from 1 parent’s feat(The ancestry) and the heritage feat. So I think 2 heritages and no ancestry feat should be ok (At GM discretion, like what is written in the Core Rulebook page 55 about the Half elf and Half Orc that can be other ancestry than human with GM permission. Of course you could argue that the GM could allow anything after all, but it's different. All GMs I have ever played with are very much against Homebrew and doing anything that isn't specifically written in the book. Trading your Ancestry feats for another Heritage feats should be something possible except half elf and Half Orc which already have both parent + the heritage.


Hawkmoon269 wrote:

No. Adding a skill isn't the same as using a skill.

MM Rulebook p11 wrote:
If a power adds an additional skill or die to a check, that skill or die is not added as a trait to the check.

@Hawkmoon269 Thank you for confirming.


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Hi everyone,

I wanted to confirm if I understood correctly;

For example Yoon from the Mummy's Mask Set has a power on her character card:

You may recharge ([] or shuffle into your deck) a blessing to add your Fortitude skill and the Fire trait to your combat check.

So my question is;

Using this power on my combat check, does it make my check a Fortitude check as well ?


Hi everyone, just a small question, about the Armor [Commander's Field Plate] in Wrath of the Righteous (Adventure deck number 2); Is it possible that there is an error in its powers ?

===

(The card powers)

When another character at your location would encounter a monster on [YOUR] turn, you may discard this card to encounter that monster instead.

...

===

Shouldn't it say; when another character...on [His] turn, you may discard...

[HIS] or [HER] whichever, instead of [YOUR] turn. It just seem extremely situational, like it barely ever happens.

Thank you in advance


Hi,

My friend and I are arguing over the rule about playing 2 weapon on a check.

my friend understand that;

Main-Gauche powers;

[If you played a weapon that has the 2-handed trait on this check, you may not play this card.]

So, since he did not play a 2-handed weapon on his combat check , he can play this weapon in addition to a the other 1-hand weapon.

I told him it refers to the 2nd effect recharging this card to reduce Combat damage.


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Lately I have been playing with only 1 friend so we play 2 character each, sometimes 3 each.

2 of my favorite combo is;

Zetha (from the Summoner Class Deck) and Varian (from the Pathfinder Tales Character deck).

I use to find Zetha weak, but I have grown to like her non-combat utility, since she can use her stealth skill for any non-combat check.

We're playing Skull & Shackles right now, just started the 3rd scenario, can't wait for the end of this scenario so that we can finally get our role card.

Varian is a pretty powerful mage, and the fact that he gets to increase his melee if using finesse is just so cool to me. I also like any mechanic that help automatically recharge spell, and the fact that he can actually put back one of his spell in his hand, makes him one of my top 3 favorite character in the entire game.

Combo wise- Zetha has a Power that allows her to draw 1, 2 or 3 (role card) monster from the box at the start of your turn, I then proceed to give 1 monster to my other character varian, which he will use to recycle his spell at the end of his turn; With Varian I get to bury 1 card from my hand to draw a spell and shuffle any number of spell from discard into my deck.
==============

2nd Combo is

Lazzero (from the Hell's Vengeance character deck 1), Talitha (from the Magus class deck), Angban (From the Gunslinger Class deck)

Reason for combo, Lazzero can heal someone at his location, but the cost is that must forfeit his first exploration and someone at his location must bury a card from his hand. And the coolest thing is; the character who buries the card does not be the one getting heal, so I get to heal anyone at my location, by; either using Talitha and bury a blessing, or Angban and Bury a Weapon with firearm trait or a Shield (*usually the latter). And then I get to recharge that buried blessing to reroll or succeed at recharging a spell, or in the case of Angban recharge the weapon/shield at the end of his turn.

Lazzero is a decent Divine caster, with a decent strength rating, on his role card, he gets to recycle his spell automatically by recharging them and even shuffling them, and can even extend that power to other character at his location.

Talita, ability to recharge buried blessing is so cool, and with lazzero, this power is even more useful. She also get to recharge her spell, actually on her role card she gets to put the spell back on top of her deck, if she reveals a card that as the staff trait on it. she also has a decent strength rating.

Finally Angban, ability to recharge buried firearm weapon is extremely cool, and he gets to recharge buried shields as well. and get an additional utility while teaming with Lazzero. on the role card he gets to examine 2 or 3 cards once every turn.


Sorry if my post is repetitive, my friend insisted that I ask to be sure;

I just want to confirm that detect evil, works the same way as Magic Detect, meaning that when Alahazra power examine 1 addtionnal card, that the additional card return on top, then the first card can be encountered if it is a monster. Or if Alahazra, can encounter the 2nd card if it is a monster.

Thank you in advance


Hello, me again, I believe I know the answer but we also can't agree on the latter, so if someone could confirm please.

Thank you in advance

Blessing of Nethys
Discard this card to examine the top 2 card of your location deck, put them back in any order, then explore your location.

Alahazra (Class Deck)
POWERS
When you examine 1 or more cards from a character or location deck, you may examine an additional card.

SEER'S HEADDRESS (Item/ Promo Card)
When you examine the top card of any deck, recharge this card to examine the bottom card of that deck.

Questions;
1- Does BO Nethys effect (..put them back in any order...) includes the 3rd card examined on top? (Or does the 3rd card examined on top return on top, then the first 2, in any order).

2a- Can Alahazra add her power multiple time in a chain of effect; Can Alahazra examine top 2 (Bo Nethys) + 1 (Alahazra power) then Seer's Headdress examine bottom card + 1 (Alahazra power) ?

2b- And if 1 & 2 is yes;
Does Bo Nethys affects the the order of the bottom cards as well ?

2c- And If all the above is yes, and Bo Nethys affects the order of all cards examined (top and bottom); If the top 3 cards are (A, B and C), and the bottom 2 cards are (Y and Z).

Can Alahazra put Y at the top and and B at the Bottom ?

3- Finally, Does the exploration of BoNethys happens before the examining of the bottom card(s) ?

Up until now, the player at my table playing Alahazra have been doing all the above. (Except for (2c); Bringing a card on top at the bottom vice versa).


Fog Bank
At this Location
After you play a card of use a power that examine cards in this location deck, shuffle it.

Blessing of Nethys
POWERS
...
Discard this card to examine the top 2 cards of your location deck, put them back in any order, then explore your location.

We have been arguing about the effects of both card.

1- Blessing of Nethys makes player examine 2 top card of his location deck, then;

-- Fog Bank interrupts --

Shuffle the location deck, then explore the location.

2- Blessing of nethys makes player examine 2 top card - then explore the location (preventing the shuffle)

3- Shuffle is delayed; Examine 2 top card, explore, then shuffle location deck.


Hawkmoon269 wrote:
It's #3. See this thread.

Thank you, I was right, my friend is not going to be happy.


Hello everyone.

My friend and I have been arguing over this for a few games so I thought I would ask here.

Alahazra has a power which enables you to examine 1 additional card whenever you examine card(s).

Magic Detect, makes you examine the top card of the location deck, and if that card has the magic trait or is a blessing you may encounter it.For the sake of example, the 2 top card on the location deck are spells.

1- Alahazra examine both card, and encounters both card senquentially in the order the player chooses

2- Alahazra examine both card and encounter only 1 of those card, of the player choosing

3- Alahazra examine both card and encounter only the first card drawn.

4 - Alahazra examine the first card - encounter the 1st card, after the encounter, examine (the additional card) and encounter it.

5- Alahazra examine the first card - encounter it then examine the 2nd card only.


Thank you Vic, thank you all for the answers.


Hello,

OK so on Nyctessa Role card (UNDEAD MASTER side), the 3rd power reads as follow;

____________________________________________________________________
Once per turn, if you are required to remove cards from your deck and you don't have enough, you do not die ([] and you may reset your hand from your discard pile).
____________________________________________________________________

It's the 2nd part in the parentheses, I understand 2 different thing;

1- Only when you would be require to remove card from your deck and are unable to and did not die because of this power, at that moment you may reset your hand - from your discard pile.

or

2- At the end of your turn, and or whenever you are required to reset your hand (as when forced to by the effect of a location or a bane), independently of if you have enough card in your deck or not, you may choose to reset your hand from your discard pile.

2nd Question; When you do reset your hand from your discard pile; Do you get to choose which card you put back in your hand ?

Or its basically the last card discarded, which would be the one on top of your discard pile, and going down (same as when drawing from the deck) ?

Thank you in advance.


I am saying that she is underpowered compared to other characters. I am saying that she could have, and in my opinion should have more power on her role card. entire box with other powers, she has 1 utility for the monster and that is to give herself #'s d4 for combat or to acquire an ally.

Edit: And she can also banish an ally to get that 1d4, how is that an acceptable cost to get a 1d4. Discarding an ally to get 1d4 is acceptable, burying an ally to get 1d4 is ridiculous, banishing an ally to get 1d4 is absolutely insane in my opinion, I would never take an ally from my hand and lose is forever to get 1d4. on a check. Most ally will give you more than 1d4 by simply recharging it or discarding it.

I would expect from a master necromancer something more impresive. So basically until you get to destroy a mosnter, you can't use your power. Also, the 3rd power is that if you run out of card , you don't die. Which is cool but at the same time really lame, because 95% of the time you are not dying, out decking out.

It never happened to any of us to deck out, it was close once or twice, but we use cure, and heal each others. So in a way its almost has if she has 3 powers.

1st- if you Kill a monster, you may add it to your hand instead of banishing it.
2nd- Banish a monster from hand to add 1d4 or several d4 to combat or to acquire an ally
3rd- if you deck out, once per turn you don't die
4th- if you fight against a monster with undead you get a 1d8 (1d12)

I don't see how you guys look at that character card or role card and see an overpowered character.

Why doesn't she has other utility for her monster in her hand. if it must be a simple utility, and her 1st is simply to add a monster and her third is not to die when decking out.They could give her power at least 2 other power on that role card, look how big is the box for the flavored text on the role card is. The role card power is almost half emptied. If they must reduce hand size, or other balancing fine, but they should add powers, make us actually go, oh shit, look at what that character can do, it's really nice.

The only thing, that gives me a glimmer of hope, is that we have not seen the other side of the role card yet. which may redeem this awful side, which is half emptied. Getting a bonus die to fight undead is just...when you have so few powers, its ridiculous. What if she could use the monster to help her recharge spell, or what if she can't recharge, but she can exchange a monster from her hand with a spell from her discard pile. Give her something special.More utility for her monsters than just 1 d4 for her combat or acquiring allies.

Maybe she can draw monster that other characters at her location defeat, like that Dwarf Magus in the Magus deck does with Barrier. What if she was the first character who, when building deck before a scenario, she can add or treat monster as if they were allies, and keep monster in her deck, or something crazy like that.

I have 1 question though, that third power on her role card;

( and you may reset your hand from your discard pile). Is that something you can do, even if you have enough card in your deck to reset normally, or not having enough card in your deck is also a condition for the reseting your hand from the discard pile part ?


TriOmegaZero wrote:
Um, you get to draw defeated monsters. You use those as your banish fodder. You literally animate the corpses of your foes to get those d4s. (Or the corpses of hapless NPCs you happen to encounter.) Plus as you level you get d4s equal to the cards deck number. So when you beat a deck 6 monster, you get to turn it around into 6d4 to a check.

But that is only when you get to scenario 6 which is almost the end of the game. my average result on d4 are 1 and 2, so multiply that by 6 and you get maybe=12 to the result, maybe 16 if you get a 4. Zetha gets to add 2 monster from the box independently of if she fights or not, it should be the same for her.

Nyctessa should have more use for her monters than just to add 1d4 or a couple for combat. or to get an ally. Zetha can banish 1 monster to use her stealth check for non combat check, why can't she do something like that.

I would have given her like bury or discard an ally to draw a monster with the same adventure deck number as that discarded ally. If that ally has the undead trait recharge that ally instead. One per turn you can display 1 or 2 monster or card with the undead trait, you can bury displayed card to reduce combat damage by 1 or 2.

On the roll card, once per turn, when you reset your hand, you may draw from 1 card with the undead trait from your buried card as one of the card you would have drawn when reseting. something cool.

Maybe she can draw a number of monster from the box at the start of the turn equal to the numnber of allies burried, like she brings them back as undead. Maybe if she is really good at it, like they said in the article above, when she defeat a henchman monster she can draw the card, and use it like an ally or a cohort for the rest of the scenario.

Edit: It makes sense to me that bringing back buried allied or monster should be a specialty for any powerful necromancer, thematically it makes sense.

Made she could shield herself from monster effect that happens before or after she act, like the wall of undead shielding her from the attack of the bane. Ignore the effect of bane that would evade you., you cut off their escape route with a wall of undead. Give her some more utility, because as of right now, she is really weak


I don't understand what Paizo has against cool looking characters, Nyctessa is among the coolest character that exist, (In my opinion anyways). Or maybe you have something against Necromancers, Nyctessa card and power are weak, she is bearly stronger than Durago also one of the coolest character but also, one of the weakest, if not the weakest character of the entire game.

On her role card she gains 1 power. One. SO lets look at her power...She can lose permanently a card deck; (Banish) a card from her hand to gain 1 d4, 1D4 right.

My God, did you say 1 D4, OP!!!!...holy shit this is so powerful. Not only that but she has in fact 3 power, because 1 of them is if she move card(s) from her deck and there isn't enough, she doesn't die once per turn.

So what, are you suppose to purposefully put yourself at risk so that you can say doesn't matter, I can't die once per turn, we're cool.

Even Zetha from the Summoner Deck, again, cool character getting short side of the stick, (she can't play spell with attack trait, or she must banish it). But for some reason even zetha is better at getting monster, she can put 2 or 3 (when you get the role card). And she has more use for them.

Why can't Durago or Nyctessa get something powerful like Amiri, when she bury a card any card(by the way) to get 1d10... or Brielle does 1d12 or Ostog 1d12, not banishing simply bury. NOt only that but brielle even get to recharge the card if she succeed. You might say ok but they are barbarian, ok what about Tup, he can recharge 1 card any, to give you 4 and the fire trait. or Mogmurch who can discard any card to give any character combat check 1d6(+1 if you check the box) and; if that card was an Alchimical (or attack or poison) an additional 1d6 (2d6 on one of the side of the role card) (and the other side, that card adventure deck number).

I never play rpgs unless I can play a necromancer, I love them, but I never found this game so boring than when I played with Duraga. Everyone was helping and doing some cool shit and having a good time except for me, one of my friend was playing Zarlova, and got to put multiple time holy light on top of his deck. the other was playing Cogsnap, and could heal us, throw potion, fight with ranged weapon and even use spell, he was like a 1 man army. The other was playing Feiya, and roll d12plus 2 for arcane, + she could actually heal herself with her Familiar Daji. What was I doing I could'nt even put any monster in my hand, because you have to wait to fight a monster with the undead trait, and %95 of the monsters were outsiders demon and what not, and when we finally saw 1, well, I wasn't the one fighting it, not to talk about the fact that before I got to unlock that power , I was a necromancer who can't raise nothing. I got a 1d4 against bonus against undead, which I never got to use not even once.

Why could Nyctessa be like Varian he has d12 in Intelligence, he gets to draw a spell at the end of his turn, and return the rest to the deck. This is f***ing amazing. And on his role card he gets to roll melee : Intelligence +2. And that is just 1 of his powers. But Has I am finishing to write this wall text I am wondering if there is even a point to write all of this, because I am also sure it is too late to change her and even if its wasn't I don't think you guys would change her just because some nobody in Canada (I am talking about myself) think she is weak.

Ever since that blog entry;

Meet the Villains—Nyctessa
Friday, May 6, 2016

I have been waiting for you guys to bring her to this game. I actually accepted to play this game entirely and solely because of her, because her design, because she looked so god**am cool. The only thing I love more than necromancer in Videogames and RPGs, are Vampire, and you get both or almost, Dhamphir is still pretty close.

My only hope is that the other side of her card, she is stronger, but at this point I don't really expect that to happen, if Durago is any indication, the other side, is probably even worse.


Thank you VRMH, yeah, I tend to do that sometimes, I have been passing the last ten...- 15 years, my god, on the other side of the table (been Storyteller /GM for Vampire the Masquerade) so use to creating NPC, obviously not the same.

Also in VTM your character has live well depending on the age of your character an entire life so to speak as a human, and for at least 25 years as a vampire. Which obviously for an Immortal is nothing but 25 years enough to put something together and become good at it, not saying that after 25 a newly turn vampire is now a powerful lord, ruling a city, but he could easily be at the top of a firm or anything else. And that is a starting character. I realise this is not VTM. Just that I have been doing that for so long is almost second nature.

My character when we roll his background core value, don't know how its called like preset and all, My character roll that he was 60 years old, so that would mean I have been around more than half a life time. I'd imagine that even without going as far as saying he is on par with batman, that he had time to become pretty good at it.

But I understand your point, and I agree with you. I'll try to refrain from doing that.

But I was more looking for help on the side of rules, did I understand correctly ? About the archetype, which one should I go for ? would I be better off chosing another starting class.

Edit: Or anyone else, any suggestion if any of you have experience playing that class, what I might want to do or avoid,anything I should know.


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Hi everyone, so a few months ago, my friends came to me and ask if I would be interested in playing Pathfinder, said yes, we all sat at the table and roll our attributes and all, but we never got to fully finish our character. We had to delay the game for months now, but I think we may be able to start in the next month or so.

Anyways, long story short. I am hoping to create this character (the game will be set in a Japanese-style setting. My character is a Dhampir, the GM already agreed to it, no problem. I roll for the background and everything. Background I roll is that my Parent is nobility, and my mother is Dead. I ask if it the same if my character is convince she is but maybe she isn't, could be a plot twist for my character later on... The GM was ok with it. Anyways, my initial story was that my character was a samurai at the service of a Daimyō (his father), I should say was as he's no longer at his service, he is a Ronin now, and he joined a temple whose underground serve as a base of operation for witchhunters - Particularly Vampire Hunter, which my character joinsed.

Now what I was going for is a Batman meets jack the ripper, sort of hunter, I don't just hunt the the bloodsucking fiend but I prey upon them, leave behind a message, a calling card of sort like a serial killer, fill the Vampire Nobility, and those who serves them with dread. Anyways. I was having a bit of difficulty joining my concept of samurai, with his alter ego, I initially thought that since it was set in Japanese like setting and I wanted my character to be a master of the Katana, that it would make sense that my character b or have been a samurai.

Anyhow, reading about the all classes this afternoon, I came upon the Vigilante Class, I had seen one such character in some images and read a little about him (the Red Raven) thought he was really cool, but I was unaware that vigilante was an actual class. So I got to reading about it, and its Class Skills and Features, and then I saw the archetypes, and I got a little loss, so that is why I am here, to ask if some of you Gentlemen, or ladies would be so kind as to share some of your wisdom and knowledge about how to best get to creating the charcter I have in mind.

So my character (apparence wise) started with the Batman villain; Talon, he is an Assassin of the Court of Owl - A Secret Society that is the architect of almost anythign that happens everywhere. Anyways, so an assassin, and the theme of the Owl, I wanted to keep that. As a symbol of Natural predator of bats - I know its cliche and cheesy, but I like it. Anyways, His vigilante name would be the Grey Owl, he would look something like a cross between an assassin from Assassin's creed and a Samurai, or now I guess a Japanese style armor. At his side his trusted and fearless companion a Eurasian eagle-owl. For weapon, I was thinking since a common theme of samurai, and superstition was that a Sword can be made corrupted or evil or if made by or with evil intent be curse, I thought my character katana is a Demon sword, (was also inspired by the Anime - Owari no seraph). My GM agreed but for obvious reason, my character cannot start with such a powerful weapon, I am ok with that. He wears a mask to protect his Identity and also inspired by the demon mask the samurai are often depicted wearing. He wears a wooden mask that cover all his face like Vega from Street Fighter, the mask would look very much the same as the Court of OWl mask, except made from wood, texture I imagine it would look like the Mask from the Movie the Mask. He would also wear a cloak with a hood, and light or medium armor, not sure in what category samurai armor falls into.

In term of skills, I see him as a master stalker, following his prey unotice in the shadow, like batman would. who has absolutely no regards for the safety of other vampire, they will all die, but he understand that there are priority, and ins't delusional or blind thinking he can take all of them head on. So he preys upon the predator and the hunter becomes the hunted, when he sees a vampire approaching a human, he strike with deadly intent, *not sure if vampire disintegrate in Pathfinder upon death* hoping they don't so he can leave their bloody corpses for the authority and other vampire to find.

So by day, he is a rich brat, son of a Vampire Count, a little prince so to speak, socializing with human and vampire nobility, and by night he preys upon the latter, but also on those who would serve them.

So I was reading the archetype and I saw the Magical Child (I think it was called), it was written that Vigilante of that archetype begins play with an animal companion like a druid. I thought he might need to be that archetype, but then I read about the faceless and I think it also fits my character, and the Serial Killer archetype, I think would fit the glove nicely too, but it was also written that you cannot take archetype that overlap on what they alter and I think some of the alteration of these archetype overlap.

Also I though I would take the Stalker side of the Vigilante from level 1 specialization.

Sorry for the long wall of text. So what would you guys suggest I do ? Also if you guys a better Idea or different class in mind which may be closer to what I wam going for by all means... thank you in advance for helping :)


Arcaneumkiller wrote:

I would also like an official statement on that,

Also I you were reffering, about the lazy interpretation, not sure, I did not take offense but I still want to valide my point by adding that I was basing myself on what is written word for word in the Base set Rulebook,

Page 9 and 10. Mummy's Mask
10 and 11 in both Wrath of the Righteous and Skull and Shackles.

At page 10 (Skull and shackles)

Under;

Encountering A Card (paragraph, it is written word for word);

... During each of the steps, you and the other palyers may perform only the specified actions. Players may only play cards or use powers that relate to each step (or relate to cards played or power used in that step).

going a bit further; it is written word for word;

After you flip over the top card of the location deck, put it on top of the deck and read it. Then go through the following steps in order.

Apply any effects that happen when you Encounter a Card.
If any powers on the card you're encountering say they're triggered when you encounter the card, they take effect at this time. You may also use powers or cards that state they can be used when you encounter a card.

As for Stride, is not written on the card; When you.. or when a character..etc.. it does not specify when it can be played so it can be played at anytime. EXCEPT During an encounter, unless an effect during an accounter would allow you to play any card even cards that do not relate to the specific step or encounter. Which is not the case with Skulking Vampire.

At least as far as I am concerned, the rule are pretty solid and clear regarding that point. And that is coming from me, someone who is often complaining to his friend because I find sometime, too often, that their choice of word, often lead to the reader's interpretation. Which often makes us (my friends and I) argue around the table as we understand different things reading the same effect on a card.

If this happens to be false and Stride could/can actually be played during that encounter...

Edit:

Regarding that Page 9 Side bar

Affecting the situation

How far does it goes ? you can play whatever card/power that would alter any given situation aside from affecting the check directly. I know that VIC said they need to remain a bit vague so they have room for expansion later but this is one very shady, left to interpretation rule.

So you could basically have played a card to move him from the location, or bring someone else or anything that would affect what is happening, even if it does not respect the steps ?


I played with 3 different group.

The first one, we took 2 hours initially (Group of 6). we were able to reduce that to 1 hour and half and eventually it was close to 1 hour.

Second group we were only 2, so that helps. (we were playing 2 characters each)

Initially took us 1 hour and half, and we were able to bring that down to between 30 and 45 minutes. But we agreed before the game that we would limit discussion not related to game to a minimum or at least we would try

Last group only 2 (we are playing 2 character each)

He is a lot less experience and we often have very diverging opinion on strategy to the game, so we argue a lot about how to go about, but it remains friendly. we are usually are able to play 2 games in a 5-8 hours.

Our game last about 2 hours, the rest is spent for lunch and diner. And doing talking and setting table and removing it. Last game we played we manage to lower that to 1 hour and 5 minutes. We'll see if it continues that way. It help too that each of us are starting to better understand our character. Our deck, the combo we can do, and the order to do them, to maximize efficiency.

I think in a month or 2 we will be able to bring that down to 45 minute maybe a bit less.

Tips; Personally I don't like us eating and touching the cards, risk of making them greasy, or and I really dont want any juice, beer or water spilled on my cards. Not that much of a tip, but if not eating it is one less little distraction.

Have them help you set up the table.

Depending on the group and the mood, we usually have no problem at least trying to reduce the unrelated talking for after the game is over. Never had too much problem with that since, all my groups actually were asking for ways for us to go through sceranio faster, so yeah.

Try to figure out, what you're going to do during the other players turn, or have an Idea at least, it helps when it gets to your turn. I know some people will go to their cellphone screen, as soon as their turn ends. So we added a rule no cellphone except for emergencies, until the game is over.

Also talking about what your current options are, to other players and what you are lileky to do or to try to do, during the next 2 or 3 turns, may help others, also figure out what they are going to do now or during their turn, when their turn comes. The latter is even more important if you are playing Close hand and even more true if playing with inexperience players. I know that some people myself included have played multiple session with open hands.

Personnaly I like both. Both have their ups and downs.

Have a group strategy before the game start, like we usually agree that we don't expect any of us to play their blessing to explore on the first 10 turn. After that, we are expected to take as much risk we can exploring, taking most of our blessing for that purpose.

Finally, when we are stuck, and the game starts stalling because one of the player or I is/am having difficulty choosing between 2 or more bad options, and we are not sure about which one is the less bad option, we usually roll a die.


I would also like an official statement on that,

Also I you were reffering, about the lazy interpretation, not sure, I did not take offense but I still want to valide my point by adding that I was basing myself on what is written word for word in the Base set Rulebook,

Page 9 and 10. Mummy's Mask
10 and 11 in both Wrath of the Righteous and Skull and Shackles.

At page 10 (Skull and shackles)

Under;

Encountering A Card (paragraph, it is written word for word);

... During each of the steps, you and the other palyers may perform only the specified actions. Players may only play cards or use powers that relate to each step (or relate to cards played or power used in that step).

going a bit further; it is written word for word;

After you flip over the top card of the location deck, put it on top of the deck and read it. Then go through the following steps in order.

Apply any effects that happen when you Encounter a Card.
If any powers on the card you're encountering say they're triggered when you encounter the card, they take effect at this time. You may also use powers or cards that state they can be used when you encounter a card.

As for Stride, is not written on the card; When you.. or when a character..etc.. it does not specify when it can be played so it can be played at anytime. EXCEPT During an encounter, unless an effect during an accounter would allow you to play any card even cards that do not relate to the specific step or encounter. Which is not the case with Skulking Vampire.

At least as far as I am concerned, the rule are pretty solid and clear regarding that point. And that is coming from me, someone who is often complaining to his friend because I find sometime, too often, that their choice of word, often lead to the reader's interpretation. Which often makes us (my friends and I) argue around the table as we understand different things reading the same effect on a card.

If this happens to be false and Stride could/can actually be played during that encounter or any Encounter; Well I really hope Paizo can update their Next Base set Rulebook to include something along the lines of; Even if a card does not specify when it can be played, card power like moving a character, can be played even if the effect is unrelated to the step , and not does specifically refer to a certain step during an encounter.


Oh!, well I wish someone from the staff could share their opinion on that, If that rule is still valid, then I will not use the Item for that purpose. I don't like cheating. I guessed it would make sense that you can't do that, but a small part of me still hope that It may now be accepted/legal.


Which also means that the Card;

Potion of Hiding, is extremely powerful in combo with any character using a boon or power which enables him/her to use his/her Stealth skill + 1d(#) for his/her combat check like with Blowgun.

Potion of Hiding

Powers

Banish this card and choose a character at your location to succeed at a stealth check.

(I also have Alchemist's Kit)

Powers

Display this card, while displayed, when you would banish a card that has the Alchemical trait for its power, discard it instead.

You have displayed Alchemist's Kit on the table.

You simply reveal blowgun, and then discard Potion of Hiding, boom instant kill of any monster/henchen/villain who is not immune to poison in this case (since Blowgun has the poison trait).

And :) Zadim 5th Power on his role card (Side/Role: Executioner);

You may ignore a monster's immunity to the poison trait.

Meme: Green Power Ranger evil laugh lol


Hi,

thank you for the answer;

Blowgun
======================================================================
Powers

For your combat check, reveal this card to use your Dexterity, Ranged, or Stealth Skill + 1d4, you may additionally recharge this card to add another 1d6.

When playing another weapon that has the Ranged trait, you may discard this card to add 1d4 and the Poison trait to your combat check.
======================================================================

This makes my attack a Dexterity and Stealth Check since I am using Zadim which has Dexterity d8 Stealth: Dexterity +2.

If I know I won't be exploring again, I have a not so bad potentional, I usually go if I have all the card in my hands;

Reveal Blowgun, to use Stealth Skill(1d8(+2)) + 1d4
Recharge Blowgun, for add. 1d6
Recharge Burglar, for add. 1d10

Zadim 2nd Power (which is; You may recharge a card to add your Intelligence Skill to your check that invokes the Poison trait), (Intelligence = d8), for add 1d8

I also use Zadim 3rd Power (which is; You may discard a weapon that does not have the 2-Handed trait to add your Stealth Skill to a combat check by a character at your location). for add. 1d8(+2)

Plus if I also have my trusty armor; Stalking Armor (which does; (2nd effect) Reveal this card to add 2 to your Stealth or Perception check). for an add. (+2)

End result; I roll 1d10 + 3d8(+6) +1d6 + 1d4, lol its a minimum of 12.
And it is even more if I and/or other player(s) play a blessing.
(+ 1d8 or 2d8 and/or more depending on which and how many blessing played).


I would argue that stride cannot be played at all during that encounter or any encounter for that matter.

At no time during the encounter are you legal/allowed to play Stride; not during the [Trigger/When you encounter] step, not during the [Evasion] step, not during the [Before you act] step, not during [Attempt the check] step either and not during any other step that follows during an encounter. Only powers or cards relating to a specific step or check may be played during an encounter. For example you wouldn't be allowed to play Cure during a combat and/ or non-combat check or any kind.

Stride would have to be played during the Exploration Phase but before the actual exploration of the Turn-player.

Now, regarding the difficulty. I am hesitating a little, but I believe that the difficulty is static, meaning that; At the [Before you act] Step, if you happen to be the only player at the location, and you fail the check required on Skulking Vampire, you will receive a +4 difficulty, even if you or another player find a revelant/legal power to move another character to the turn-player location.

That being said, I believe that a character like Zadim with his role Outrider, the last power(is written);

When another character encounters a bane that has the poison or trigger trait, you may move to that character's location.

Now, Skulking Vampire does not have the Trigger or Poison trait so that wouldn't work, BUT, the wording of that power would enable a character to move, at the [Trigger/when you Encounter] step which happens before the [Evasion] step and therefore also happens before the [Before you act] step. Which means that in the case of failure from the turn-player, the difficulty would be of +2 instead of +4.

I also believe that even if there is another character at the current location during the [Before you act] step, even if that character somehow found a way to move to another location, before determining the difficulty, even if the turn player failed the Skulking Vampire (before you act check), the difficulty would remain +2 because during the [Before you act] step, the Turn-Player was not alone at that location.


Hi, everyone.

Sorry if the question sounds too obvious but, I just wanted to confirm with you guys, if you play a boon that add a 1d10 to a stealth check for example.

Can I use that card on a Stealth combat check ?

Because most card specify do specify wether it affect combat or only non-combat check.

But there are a few cards that do not specify wether it affects combat or non-combat checks; Like the Ally;

BURGLAR

Powers
Recharge this card to add 1d10 to your Disable or Stealth check or your check to defeat a barrier.

I have been playing for months now, using the Ally [Burglar] in combo with weapon such as [Blowgun]; which enables me to use my Stealth Skill + 1d4 for my combat check. Was I wrong all that time doing so ?


I am a little late to the discussion, I just saw the article I was away from this website for several month well almost a year. Anyways my favorite is;

Nyctessa.

Vampire (well Dhampir, close enough) and Necromancer.

I am in love.

Actually I saw the artwork of nyctessa over a year ago, I fell in love with that character almost right-away, love her background story, and I thought to myself; Oh boy! How cool would it be to play as her! Well now its actually happening.

I can't wait...

Edit: The only thing cooler would be a Dhampir Samurai

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