BoNethys & CD Alahazra examine +1 & Seer's Headdress

Rules Questions and Gameplay Discussion

Hello, me again, I believe I know the answer but we also can't agree on the latter, so if someone could confirm please.

Blessing of Nethys
Discard this card to examine the top 2 card of your location deck, put them back in any order, then explore your location.

Alahazra (Class Deck)
POWERS
When you examine 1 or more cards from a character or location deck, you may examine an additional card.

When you examine the top card of any deck, recharge this card to examine the bottom card of that deck.

Questions;
1- Does BO Nethys effect (..put them back in any order...) includes the 3rd card examined on top? (Or does the 3rd card examined on top return on top, then the first 2, in any order).

2a- Can Alahazra add her power multiple time in a chain of effect; Can Alahazra examine top 2 (Bo Nethys) + 1 (Alahazra power) then Seer's Headdress examine bottom card + 1 (Alahazra power) ?

2b- And if 1 & 2 is yes;
Does Bo Nethys affects the the order of the bottom cards as well ?

2c- And If all the above is yes, and Bo Nethys affects the order of all cards examined (top and bottom); If the top 3 cards are (A, B and C), and the bottom 2 cards are (Y and Z).

Can Alahazra put Y at the top and and B at the Bottom ?

3- Finally, Does the exploration of BoNethys happens before the examining of the bottom card(s) ?

Up until now, the player at my table playing Alahazra have been doing all the above. (Except for (2c); Bringing a card on top at the bottom vice versa).

"Arcaneumkiller wrote:
1- Does BO Nethys effect (..put them back in any order...) includes the 3rd card examined on top? (Or does the 3rd card examined on top return on top, then the first 2, in any order).

I'm surprised this isn't FAQd, because it's a natural question.

The link Hawkmoon pointed you to in the other thread seems to apply. When CD Alahazra increases the number of cards examined, if the power granting the examine does something with just 1 card, you still do that thing with just 1 card, but if the power does something with N>1 cards, you do that thing with all N+1 cards examined.

"Arcaneumkiller wrote:
2a- Can Alahazra add her power multiple time in a chain of effect; Can Alahazra examine top 2 (Bo Nethys) + 1 (Alahazra power) then Seer's Headdress examine bottom card + 1 (Alahazra power) ?

Yes. Because a "when" power can be used whenever the trigger occurs, that's a legal play.

"Arcaneumkiller wrote:

2b- And if 1 & 2 is yes;

Does Bo Nethys affects the the order of the bottom cards as well ?

No. Why would it? BoN lets you examine and rearrange the top 2; Alahazra makes that 3. The Headress lets you also examine the bottom 1; Alahzra makes that 2. Why would the power BoN gives you to arrange the top cards apply to the bottom cards? Nothing says it does.

I think the play unfolds like this:
1) Examine the top 3 cards, then examine the bottom 2 cards
OR
1) Examine the bottom 2 cards, then examine the top 3 cards
THEN
2) Put the bottom 2 cards back in the order you found them, and put the top 3 cards back in the order you choose
THEN

"Arcaneumkiller wrote:

2c- And If all the above is yes, and Bo Nethys affects the order of all cards examined (top and bottom); If the top 3 cards are (A, B and C), and the bottom 2 cards are (Y and Z).

Can Alahazra put Y at the top and and B at the Bottom ?

This is moot.

"Arcaneumkiller wrote:
3- Finally, Does the exploration of BoNethys happens before the examining of the bottom card(s) ?

I've opined No, but I'm uncertain.

Something that happens "when" something else happens happens immediately; but a granted explore happens immediately as well.

Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

1 and 2A are YES, as elcoderdude explained; 2B and below - NO.

elcoderdude wrote:
Something that happens "when" something else happens happens immediately;

I currently take this staement to be true, so here is what I think happens:

- You play BoNethys -this causes you to examine the top 2 BUT you only examine the cards 'in order' (as opposed to 'in bulk'; there should be a rule about in the latest MM Rulebook) so:
- You examine the top card
-> (this will first trigger "Trigger" cards - but there's no such cards in S&S so you don't bother)
-> this triggers Headress's "WHEN you examine the top card" - so you play it, if you so wish
-> you examine the bottom card
-> this *would* trigger "When you examine bottom..." from a theoretical SECOND Headress in you hand. So you can examine the top card again (which can be a different card already in a "Trigger" environment like MM), apply Alaxazra's power, etc...
-> this ALSO triggers Alahazras's "WHEN you examine a card" (since it's a separate 'block' of examines that the ones granted by BoNethys) - so -*after you've dealt with any "WHEN you examine bottom.." effects* - you may play Alahazra's power to examine the second from bottom (but you may NOT want to)
- You now return to the effect of BoNethys and examine the NEXT card in the deck - in your case, that will be 'second from top'(but in MM this could now be the TOP card of the deck, if the first card top card was a Trigger and made you encounter it; in this case, you have already examined the 'top card' for purposes of the BoNethys examines, so this *new* 'top card of deck' will NOT trigger Headress)
- You have completed the BoNethys examines, so you may now play Alhazra's "WHEN you examine" power to examine the NEXT card (again, in MM this could now be your *third" "top card of the deck", but since Alahzra's power only expands the range of BoNethys - it won't count as such for purposes of Headress, etc..)
- You have now completed the whole chain of possible examines triggered by BoNethys; you may now rearrange any cards that you examined from the top through the combined effect of Nethys+Alahazra power (but in MM - there may be none left to rearrange!)
- You must now explore your location due to BoNethys. (In MM, this could mean you explore a completely new card that you never examined, if you had to banish/display all of the cards you examined)

IMHO.