Alibar's page

I honestly did not think this thread would start a Dex vs. Str debate, all I was wondering was if the feat seemed balanced enough for regular play and if anyone was willing to use it or not. I respect the merits of both STR builds and DEX builds, understanding that dex builds get more bang for their buck in terms of modifiers while paying a feat tax and losing a certain amount of versatility in the process. I don't think one is necessarily better than the other, I just saw many builds for nimble-type fighters that kind of have to compromise the vision for the sake of appeasing the mechanics. I think exalibur has some valid points/insight, however I do think that Str is safe in it's viability and certainly isn't going anywhere :) Thank you to those who have posted so far, I am learning much about the merits/drawbacks of both build types.

Excaliburproxy wrote:

The agile enchantment is good enough for you dex-loving savages.

In other words, they don't get to be useful until they have 8,000g to put down.

It’s like Paizo was trying to throw dex-based characters a bone….but they threw it too far and by the time the character reaches it he’s 6th level.

I honestly think that the swashbuckler should get dex to damage starting at level 5 (like the gunslinger) but as additional precision damage and the flat precision damage should instead scale as something like: 1+1/2 level. That way the swashbuckler still gets use out of strength and everything levels rather nicely.

I mean ranged attacks for accuracy and not damage. Strength fighters don't get ranged option but ranged fighters get melee options as things stand. What people want--that I dislike--is that these melee options for dex builds are catching up to or surpassing the strength build's melee options. That should not be happening.

On piranha strike: the best dex fighter weapon is probably the kukri anyways. And dervish dance is kinda dumb, anyways. The elven curve blade with power attack is alright though.

This I don’t necessarily agree with (the bolded text). With the tools given, strength-based melee is still the king of the damage ring, the fact that dexterity builds “are catching up” simply reinforces the fact that dexterity builds have been starved for damage viability outside of third party material or calculating every single feat combination from every single source book. This one little feat isn’t exactly going to tip the scales, it’s still a feat tax for something you could do automatically with strength, and it only applies to one weapon at a time.

I agree that Dervish Dance is kinda dumb, first you have to waste a feat slot by getting weapon finesse, which you will never use again after the first or second level, as well as having TWO ranks in Perform (dance), which means you can’t take it until minimum 2nd level, for most classes 3rd level, so for those first couple levels your almost certainly using a different weapon to take advantage of Weapon Finesse, and then suddenly BOOM you’re a master scimitar wielder just like that. It also nerf’s your AC potential because you can’t have anything in your offhand, shields included.

Excaliburproxy wrote:

"But I stab more accurately," I hear you say. That is called sneak attack damage.

Except, that sneak attack damage does absolutely nothing to make you stab more accurately. It just lets you get mechanics for a kidney-stabber.

Exactly.

Honestly I think the mechanics should reflect the concept, not the other way around. I was thinking a feat like this would help those character concepts be more viable, as it is we have had to compromise our vision for certain characters because the mechanics simply don't synergize (case in point: Aldori Swordlord)

You're still behind two feats compared to another Human Fighter.

That guy's coming online a lot faster than you, and you're never going to outdamage his Falchion.

This was kind of my way of thinking, I also thought that by restricting it to a single weapon each time you take the feat would balance it even more. I also agree that dexterity alone already affects quite a few stats for your character, but that is why we have a feat tax for those who want to use it to deal damage. I just think there are so many character concepts that are being left out in the cold and a feat like this would help bring them to light.

I was wondering why there wasn't a feat specifically for converting damage from your strength modifier to your dexterity modifier? I know they have Dervish Dance, but it's very limiting and doesn't fit every character concept. I want a feat for all the other dex-based characters out there, so I was wondering what anyone thought of a feat like this:

Deadly Finesse (Combat)

You know how to use your agility to deadly effect with your chosen weapon.

Prerequisite: Weapon Finesse

Benefit: Choose a weapon covered by Weapon Finesse made for a creature of your size category, you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on damage rolls with that weapon. You do not receive a 1 1/2 damage modifier when wielding a single weapon with both hands while using this feat.

Special: You may select this feat more than once, choosing a new weapon each time.

So what does everyone think, a viable option?

sorry for not posting for a while, been a little busy :)

Hi, it’s a bit that I’m trying to formalize a Pathfinder soulknife for my campaign…

I find really good ideas in your release, Alibar, particularly the Wis bonus to AC and fast movement.

Actually I’m playing with this version and (up to know) it seems ok (compared to other classes), the problem will arise presumably at upper levels… I stole ideas from here and there on different forums and I apologize for not being able to cite those guys

First of all, in my opinion a soulknife is not a pure warrior, therefore I’m keeping the cleric BAB while I rose skill points to 6 + Int, trying to give more her a connotation of jack-of-all-trades.
I wanted to stack the more I could to the original just moving some key features and adding feats:

1st 0 0 2 2 Mind Blade, WF (mind blade), Wild Talent
2nd 1 0 3 3 Throw Mind Blade, bonus feat*
3rd 2 1 3 3 Psychic Strike +1d8
4th 3 1 4 4 +1 mind blade
5th 3 1 4 4 Free Draw, Shape Mind Blade
6th 4 2 5 5 Mind Blade Enhancement +1, Speed of thought, bonus feat*
7th 5 2 5 5 Psychic Strike +2d8, Swift strike (1/d)
8th 6/1 2 6 6 Multiple throw, +2 mind blade
9th 6/1 3 6 6 Bladewind, GWF (mind blade)
10th 7/2 3 7 7 Mind Blade Enhancement +2, bonus feat*
11th 8/3 3 7 7 Psychic Strike +3d8, Swift strike (2/d)
12th 9/4 4 8 8 +3 mind blade
13th 9/4 4 8 8 Knife to the Soul
14th 10/5 4 9 9 Mind Blade Enhancement +3, bonus feat*
15th 11/6 5 9 9 Psychic Strike +4d8, Swift strike (3/d)
16th 12/7 5 10 10 +4 mind blade
17th 12/7 5 10 10 Lasting psychic strike
18th 13/8 6 11 11 Mind Blade Enhancement +4, bonus feat*
19th 14/9 6 11 11 Psychic Strike +5d8
20th 15/10/5 6 12 12 +5 mind blade, Swift strike (once/round)

Just note in particular that:

1) multiple throw was moved to 6th
2) bonus feats (psionic) at 2nd ant each 4 therafter
3) swift strike at 7th (once per day), 11th twice, 15th three times, at 20th once per round (the final gift!): charge the psychic strike as a swift action
4) At 17th Lasting psychic strike: the soulknife's mindblade...

Herr Malthus, I'm glad you liked a couple of my ideas, I like some of the ideas you posted as well, particularly the swift strike ability progression (wish i'd thought of it!) ;) I see you decided to keep the enhancement bonus ala the original method, do you believe this is more balanced? I liked the idea of having it supremely flexible while limiting the total enhancement you could have on it, but maybe this would be a bit overpowered (i.e. haveing a +5 enhancement bonus at lvl 12...) thank you for posting!

The suggestion to trade in psychic strike damage for effects isn't a bad one. What I would rather see however, is them actually getting a PP pool, and paying for additional effects out of it, and only able to manifest a number of points equal to level. So:

xpts: +1d8 dmg
ypts: dazing attack
zpts: enervating attack

And so on. Also, access to these abilities should come in clumps, not over the course of the progression, so that there can be more free levels for interesting, non-mind blade focused, abilities.

This same idea could be applied to all the other special abilities of the class, and further special abilities could be added (wall walking, better armor, etc) to make the class more versatile. But everything costs points to use, and the character is still limited in number of pts spent a round. This provides some balance to the class abilities, while adding more variety to them.

you know, its funny you should mention that, I was actually toying around with that exact same idea :) but i wasn't sure how many pp to give, i was afraid it might limit the class, but i do like the idea because it would cement the class as being truly psionic instead of being merely psionically "fluffed" I think if we went this route however i would give him more pp to play with, maybe 2x lvl?

keep posting people, lets keep this thread alive!

I don't know about the enhancement progression, but I would leave the good BAB. He's a mobile/frontline combatant...

About the status psychic strike maybe you can turn it dice replancing as the Knife to the Soul ability: swap 1d8 for the dazzing strike, 2d8 for the confusing strike, 3d8 for the frightening strike, 4d8 for the amnesia strike and 5d8 for the death strike. So a 20th level soulknife would do:

- a +4d8 dazzing strike;
- a +3d8 confusing strike;
- a +2d8 frightening strike;
- a +1d8 amnesia strike;
- a death strike;
- a confusing frightening strike;
- a dazzing amnesia strike;
- a +2d8 dazzing confusing strike;
- and so on...

that's an interesting idea :) though i wonder if that would be too pwerful to daze an opponent and give him two negative lvls at the same time (dazzing amnesia strike). the soulknife could just do it for a few rounds until the target was dead, unless the target makes its save, but there is no guarantee of that.

can anyone tell me how to edit a post after its been posted for a while? I'd like to be able to add changes to the class as this messageboard progresses without having to repost the entire class every time. i think we would all get sick of that ;)

Perhaps they make their living as logsplitters, fishgutters, and other blade-related professions...

very effective butchers :)

guy walks into the delicatessen, sees the soulknife cutting up a dragon leg, he says "Wow, thats some fancy piece of cutlery you got there."
The soulknife replies "Thanks, I made it myself."

*badumbum ching*

seriously though, (as if that was even a good joke) i'm not sure what we could do with the mechanics to give the soulknife out-of-combat flavor. As always though, i'll think about it, and i'm open to suggestions.

My only concern is they are still a bit of a one-trick pony, and I think they need some out-of-combat development to give them some flavor.

I can't help but wonder, would we say the same thing about the fighter? ;)

I was thinking of giving them an alignment restriction like a druid, any neutral. The reasoning is that they are fully focused on developing their own minds and capabilities that worrying about alignment extremes like law or chaos would only distract them.

yeah, i thought maybe the BAB would put it over-the-top, I just thought that considering the entire class is focused on fighting with their own perfect weapon that it would fit, but your probably right :)
as for the weapon enhancement, i think one every 3 levels would make their weapon woefully underpowered compared to other classes at higher levels, ending up with only a +6 total bonus while other classes will probably purchase at the least +8 bonus weapons, but maybe i could find a way to lower it to say a +8 or +9 bonus.

Thank you for your feedback, I want to make this a playable, fair class that isn't overpowered :)

wow, no one responded yet? I'm hurt :(
anyway, hope you all like what i did, and if not please let me know what i can do to improve it, i'm open to all suggestions.

here is my idea for the soulknife in pathfinder, keep in mind this is a work in progress so please post any thoughts or ideas you might have, whether you love it or hate it ;) Please help me do justice to this class!

Also, many thanks goes out to Sydonis on the WotC messageboards for his soulknife handbook, which can be found here
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872658/The_Soulknife_Ha ndbook?num=10&pg=1

some of the ideas for this revision came from his amazing work :)

p.s. sorry about the format, not sure ow to fix that yet, hope you can all still read it.

There is a society of warriors that believe their mind is their greatest weapon, and their greatest shield. They eschew the common implements of most warriors, believing weapons and armor limit their potential, and after intense training and concentration they are able to manifest their own weapons and defenses from the very fabric of their conscious beings. They see this as proof of their ideology.
These Soulknives, as they call themselves, are deadly warriors, able to blend in with the normal populace and operate unnoticed until it is too late for their enemies to guard themselves.

Alignment: any

Hit Dice: d10

Class Skills: Acrobatics, Autohypnosis, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Intimidate, Knowledge (psionics), Perception, Profession, Sense Motive, Stealth, Swim.

Skill Ranks per level: 4+int mod

Table: The Soulknife

Lvl BAB For Ref Will Special AC Fast Movement
1st +1 +0 +2 +2 Mind Blade, Wild Talent +0 +0 ft.
2nd +2 +0 +3 +3 Mind Blade Enhancement +1, Evasion +0 +0 ft.
3rd +3 +1 +3 +3 Psychic Strike +1d8, Throw Mind Blade +0 +0 ft.
4th +4 +1 +4 +4 Mind Blade Enhancement +2, dazing strike +1 +0 ft.
5th +5 +1 +4 +4 Free Draw, Shape Mind Blade +1 +0 ft.
6th +6/+1 +2 +5 +5 Mind Blade Enhancement +3, Bonus Feat, Fast Movement +1 +10 ft.
7th +7/+2 +2 +5 +5 Psychic Strike +2d8 +1 +10 ft.
8th +8/+3 +2 +6 +6 Mind Blade Enhancement +4, confusing strike +2 +10 ft.
9th +9/+4 +3 +6 +6 Bladewind, Improved Evasion +2 +10 ft.
10th +10/+5 +3 +7 +7 Mind Blade Enhancement +5, Bonus Feat +2 +10 ft.
11th +11/+6/+1 +3 +7 +7 Psychic Strike +3d8 +2 +10 ft.
12th +12/+7/+2 +4 +8 +8 Mind Blade Enhancement +6, frightening strike +3 +20 ft.
13th +13/+8/+3 +4 +8 +8 Knife to the Soul +3 +20 ft.
14th +14/+9/+4 +4 +9 +9 Mind Blade Enhancement +7, Bonus Feat +3 +20 ft.
15th +15/+10/+5 +5 +9 +9 Psychic Strike +4d8 +3 +20 ft.
16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +5 +10 +10 Mind Blade Enhancement +8, amnesia strike +4 +20 ft.
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +10 Shield the Mind +4 +30 ft.
18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +6 +11 +11 Mind Blade Enhancement +9, Bonus Feat +4 +30 ft.
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +6 +11 +11 Psychic Strike +5d8 +4 +30 ft.
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +6 +12 +12 Mind Blade Enhancement +10, death strike +5 +30 ft.

Class Features

All the following are class features of the soulknife.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A soulknife is proficient with all simple weapons and his own mind blade. A soulknife does not gain proficiency with any armor or shields (except a mindshield).

AC Bonus (Ex): When unarmored and unencumbered, the soulknife adds his Wisdom bonus (if any) to his AC. In addition, a soulknife gains a +1 bonus to AC at 4th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every four soulknife levels thereafter (+2 at 8th, +3 at 12th, +4 at 16th, and +5 at 20th level).

These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the soulknife is flat-footed. He loses these bonuses when he is immobilized or helpless, when he wears any armor, when he carries a shield (except a mindshield), or when he carries a medium or heavy load.

Mind Blade (Su): As a move action, a soulknife can create a semisolid blade composed of psychic energy distilled from his own mind. The blade is identical in all ways (except visually) to a short sword of a size appropriate for its wielder. For instance, a Medium soulknife materializes a Medium mind blade that he can wield as a light weapon, and the blade deals 1d6 points of damage (crit 19-20/×2). Soulknives who are smaller or larger than Medium create mind blades identical to short swords appropriate for their size, with a corresponding change to the blade’s damage. The wielder of a mind blade gains the usual benefits to his attack roll and damage roll from a high Strength bonus.

The blade can be broken (it has hardness 10 and 10 hit points); however, a soulknife can simply create another on his next move action. The moment he relinquishes his grip on his blade, it dissipates (unless he intends to throw it; see below). A mind blade is considered a magic weapon for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

A soulknife can use feats such as Power Attack or Combat Expertise in conjunction with the mind blade just as if it were a normal weapon. He can also choose mind blade for feats requiring a specific weapon choice, such as Weapon Specialization. Powers or spells that upgrade weapons can be used on a mind blade.

Even in places where psionic effects do not normally function (such as within a null psionics field), a soulknife can attempt to sustain his mind blade by making a DC 20 Will save. On a successful save, the soulknife maintains his mind blade for a number of rounds equal to his class level before he needs to check again. On an unsuccessful attempt, the mind blade vanishes. As a move action on his turn, the soulknife can attempt a new Will save to rematerialize his mind blade while he remains within the psionics negating effect.

Wild Talent: A soulknife gains Wild Talent as a bonus feat. (This class feature provides the character with the psionic power he needs to materialize his mind blade, if he has no power points otherwise.)

Mind Blade Enhancement (Su): Mind blade gains an enhancement bonus equal to the number listed on Table: the Soulknife. This enhancement bonus may be a Weapon Enhancement to attack and damage, or a Magical Enhancement selected from the magical enhancement list. A Soulknife may never have a Weapon Enhancement or Magical Enhancement higher than +5. As well, he may change his weapon's enhancement by spending a full-round action in concentration

Evasion (Ex): At 2nd level or higher if a soulknife makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, he instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the soulknife is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless soulknife does not gain the benefit of evasion.

Throw Mind Blade (Ex): At 3rd level a soul knife’s mind blade may be thrown up to 30 feet as a ranged weapon and may be thrown a number of times per round equal to the number of attacks the soulknife can make.
Whether or not the attacks hit, a thrown mind blade then dissipates. A soulknife can make a psychic strike (see below) with a thrown mind blade and can use the blade in conjunction with other special abilities (such as Knife to the Soul; see below).

Psychic Strike (Su): As a move action, a soulknife of 3rd level or higher can imbue his mind blade with destructive psychic energy. This effect deals an extra 1d8 points of damage to the next living, nonmindless target he successfully hits with a melee attack (or ranged attack, if he is using the throw mind blade ability). Creatures immune to mind-affecting effects are immune to psychic strike damage. (Unlike the rogue’s sneak attack, the psychic strike is not precision damage and can affect creatures otherwise immune to extra damage from critical hits or more than 30 feet away, provided they are living, non-mindless creatures not immune to mind-affecting effects.)

A mind blade deals this extra damage only once when this ability is called upon, but a soulknife can imbue his mind blade with psychic energy again by taking another move action.

Once a soulknife has prepared his blade for a psychic strike, it holds the extra energy until it is used. Even if the soulknife drops the mind blade (or it otherwise dissipates, such as when it is thrown and misses), it is still imbued with psychic energy when the soulknife next materializes it.

At every four levels beyond 3rd (7th, 11th, 15th, and 19th), the extra damage from a soulknife’s psychic strike increases as shown on the Table above.

Dazing Strike (Su): The soulknife overloads his opponent’s senses, temporarily shorting out the connection between their mind and their body. Beginning at 4th level, when a soul knife executes a psychic strike he may instead choose to forego his extra psychic strike damage and make a dazing strike. On a successful hit the enemy must make a will save (DC 10 + ½ soulknife lvl + wisdom modifier) or be dazed for one round. A soulknife may only daze creatures whose hit dice are equal to or less than his levels of soul knife.

Free Draw (Su): At 5th level, a soulknife becomes able to materialize his mind blade as a free action instead of a move action. He can make only one attempt to materialize the mind blade per round, however.

Shape Mind Blade (Su): At 5th level, a soulknife gains the ability to change the form of his mind blade. As a full-round action, he can change his mind blade to replicate a longsword (damage 1d8 for a Medium weapon wielded as a one-handed weapon) or a bastard sword (damage 1d10 for a Medium weapon, but he must wield it as a two-handed weapon unless he knows the Exotic Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword) feat). If a soulknife shapes his mind blade into the form of a bastard sword and wields it two-handed, he adds 1½ times his Strength bonus to his damage rolls, just like when using any other two-handed weapon.

Alternatively, a soulknife can split his mind blade into two identical short swords, suitable for fighting with a weapon in each hand. (The normal penalties for fighting with two weapons apply.) However, both mind blades have an enhancement bonus 1 lower than the soulknife would otherwise create with a single mind blade.

Bonus Feats: At 6th level and every 4 levels thereafter (10th, 14th, 18th) a soul knife may select a bonus feat. These can be any psionic feat or mind blade feat the soul knife qualifies for.

Fast Movement (Ex): At 6th level, a soulknife gains an enhancement bonus to his speed, as shown on Table: The Soulknife. A soulknife in armor or carrying a medium or heavy load loses this extra speed.

Confusing Strike (Su): The soulknife slices through his opponent’s sanity. Beginning at 8th level, when a soulknife executes a psychic strike he may instead choose to forego his extra psychic strike damage and make a confusing strike. On a successful hit the enemy must make a will save or be confused for a number of rounds equal to the soulknife’s wisdom modifier (minimum 1 round).

Bladewind (Su): At 9th level, a soulknife gains the ability to momentarily fragment his mind blade into numerous identical blades, each of which strikes at a nearby opponent.

As a full attack, when wielding his mind blade, a soulknife can give up his regular attacks and instead fragment his mind blade to make one melee attack at his full base attack bonus against each opponent within reach. Each fragment functions identically to the soulknife’s regular mind blade.

When using bladewind, a soulknife forfeits any bonus or extra attacks granted by other feats or abilities (such as the Cleave feat or the haste spell).

The mind blade immediately reverts to its previous form after the bladewind attack.

Improved Evasion (Ex): At 9th level, a soulknife’s evasion ability improves. He still takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks, but henceforth he takes only half damage on a failed save. A helpless soulknife does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.

Frightening Strike (Su): The strike of a soulknife can strip away the courage from his enemies. Beginning at 12th level, when a soulknife executes a psychic strike he may instead choose to forego his extra psychic strike damage and make a frightening strike. On a successful hit the enemy must make a will save or be panicked for a number of rounds equal to the soulknife’s wisdom modifier (minimum 1 round). If the enemy succeeds on its will save it is instead shaken for one round.

Knife to the Soul (Su): Beginning at 13th level, when a soulknife executes a psychic strike, he can choose to substitute Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma damage (his choice) for extra dice of damage. For each die of extra damage he gives up, he deals 1 point of damage to the ability score he chooses. A soulknife can combine extra dice of damage and ability damage in any combination.

The soulknife decides which ability score his psychic strike damages and the division of ability damage and extra dice of damage when he imbues his mind blade with the psychic strike energy.

Amnesia Strike (Su): The soulknife has learned to cut away recent experiences from the minds of his enemies. Beginning at 16th level, when the soul knife executes a psychic strike he may instead choose to forego his extra psychic strike damage and make an amnesia strike. On a successful hit the enemy must make a will save or gain two negative levels. The effects of multiple negative levels stack. Negative levels gained in this manner are lost after one hour.

Shield the mind (Ex): After attacking the minds of many enemies the soulknife learns how to defend his own mind against unwanted intrusions. He gains a resistance bonus against all mind-affecting spells and abilities equal to half his levels in soulknife (rounded down).

Death Strike (Su): The soulknife can see the very fabric of his enemy’s consciousness. With a well placed strike, he cuts the thread that holds it all together. At 20th level, when the soulknife executes a psychic strike he may instead choose to forego his extra psychic strike damage and make a death strike. On a successful hit the enemy must make a will save or die immediately. If the enemy succeeds his will save he instead takes 5d6 damage and is shaken for 1 round. Once a creature has been the target of a death strike, regardless of whether or not the save is made, that creature is immune to that soulknife’s death strike for 24 hours.