Mothman

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I really enjoy this game, and i appreciate how much community is important for games desing and stuffs.
The fact that a class is tested by community before release is fine, but after some new classes and some time, i think this interaction between designers and community should reach another level.
First, even if 3.5 base rules were fine, sometimes we should have the courage to go a bit far.
Old rules should be an aid, but not a weight. I'll make some example.
Ride skill when damaged. Identify spells in combat. Set traps.
Classes' concept. Rogue, fighter, monks. This classes are seen by a significant number of player as underpowered, but i mostly see less option of all other classes (rangers are fine as core classes, but poor on variants).
So the point is, since we have a lot of feedbacks on base rules, on classes and so on, why don't make a book with some updating?
I know that a lot of people, remembering the tons of manuals of 3.0 and 3.5, would not be happy, but i'm not speaking about a PF 2.0.
I think that what is motionless one day will became a thing of the past, and PF got the numbers to really live in the present all days.
This can be done not only with new adventure, new races, etc, but also rethinking old features with new playstyle.
I mean, how can rogue still be the same when ninja, inquisitors, and cool bard's archetype roams the game? This can be true also for other classes, of course. I can see only a little spot of the problem, if i can use this word. Is not even a problem, but an opportunity. So, i will give a global feedback on classes to start this, and i hope one day PF staff will take all feedbacks and would give us a PDF or a book to go ahead and evolve another time.

1) Classes.

All classes should have at least 4 skill points / level.

Alchemist: cognatogen is op. Bombs should have a shape (example, cone) and an energy. Now you can only do a frost bomb, but not a cone frost bomb.

Barbarian: just no rage cyicling :) Rest it's fine.

Bard: a very nice class. The only bad thing is that he could surclass specialized class in their field. Example: rogue on stealth, wizard on all knowledge.

Cavalier: I think that challenge, as smite evil, could be op. I relate it on CHA. Challenge do a bonus damage of 1/2 x level + cha bonus.

Cleric: a nice class. The only thing could be that is poor of "features", compared to oracle. The problem is not power, but flavour.

Druid: maybe a bit op, if DM let you abuse some combo with particular spells and wild shape, but can be handled.

Fighter: Now fighter is nice, in my opinion. We should think something for dex based melee combat, but this can be true for all melee. The big problem of a fighter: zero features to interact with magic. Ok, fighters don't cast spells, but as they have feats against spellcasters, why not something for spell affinity or resistence?
Some example: a fighter could use a cold iron weapon to destroy force effects. Some archetype of a fighter who protect and helps casters, and so on. If a setting is high magic, even a mundane fighter should now something about.

Inquisitor: OP? I mean, his bane... i think is too strong, since he got also other buffs, a lot of skill, a domain, spells, etc. This class really humiliate the old rogue. Ok, rogue got 8 skills / level, but bards and inquisitors got so much bonuses (half/level on skills) that surclass him. I'd modify his bane this way: +1d6 (then 2d6 for grater bane) of holy or profane bonus damage. He already got steroids for hit chance.

All casters: some spells are too strong, and spells DC should not be too high. At some level a spell can deny a monster, or worst, a character. I'm not saying that dominate monster should be no more, but if i play a NPC wizards i'm pretty sure that if i dominate the fighter game is over. Same for PC vs enemy. Low hit throws are really too low sometimes, and sometimes high ST are not enough.

After witch i made a new rule. Since witch got hexes, that let her spam useful spells, i thinked to change spells DC in this way: caster leve/2 + bonus of relevant stat. With some attention on low level spells that could be too strong, in this way a caster can enjoy using spells of all different type, and even paladin and ranger could use all available spells (now they just have to ignore all of their spells that allow a ST).

Witch: more hexes, and more useful for PC. Now they got few hexes and too much are only for NPC, and some are quite useless.

Rogue: Lowest hit chance except full arcane casters, worst ST of the game. Sneak attack is fine, but... is it an outdated features? I think so. His bonus damage is so strong that rogue rely almost 100% on that. Less damage, more tricks.

Magus: i think it's fine.

Samurai and ninja: too strong compared to base classes.

Paladin: Truly op. Swift self heal condition remover, smite evile op. Bypass all DR (i make it only function as "good"). Too much damage (i use level/2 + cha bonus). Bonus on hit and AC is strong, but is not the problem i think. His ST are the best in the game.

Ranger: a nice class. Archetype are totally messed up. Too much substitute class features like favored enemy that are necessary to mid and high leve abilities without changing it.

Sorry for my english, i'm not native speaker. I'll appreciate any feedback, expecially on classes, i'd like to read all your idea about actual game situation and on class changes, if needed.

Good game to all.


The alchemist take from 1st level abilities to poison, but at lower level poisons are difficult to buy and expensive. Using this ability is a dilemma :)
So, i was wondering, would you let a player that run an alchemist to take or research some offensive "specific target" spells, that he can use as a poison? For example hold person, that he can put on a weapon and on a succesful hit that deal at least 1 damage the target saves as it was targeted by the original spell. Maybe this could function also on ingestion... it would be nice for a zone of truth (but that works only on target) to play as a truth serum.


Let's go.

Banned feats

Weapon finesse: now weapon that can be used with dex bonus give to wielder the choice if using dex bonus or str. At GM choice, some weapon have to be used with dex and can be used with strenght only as improvised weapons.

Improved unarmed strike: characters can give a punch without provoke. Erase this feat from prerequisite line of other feats. If something gives you this feat as a bonus (for example first level of monk) add instead improved grapple.

Manyshot: Too strong. Ranged attack style got many option. More attack than a single weapon, greater range, full attack from first round, no need to move, can threat, benefits from buckler, etc. I'm considering on give higher BAB prerequisite, but now I'm playing without it.
Variant: the extra attack is made as a secondary (-5 on BAB) like two weapon fighting.

Changed feats

Metamagic feats: they don't add casting time to spontaneous casters, and prepared casters don't have to memorize it before. They are used as a part of the casting.
Instead of increase the spell level, casters have to sacrifice a spell slot o prepared spell of a level that is equal to the level increase of the feat (for example to launch a empowered fireball sacrifice a 2nd level spell slot).
Still testing all feats. It works fine for core manual. Some could need an increase of the cost.
The original spell level + level of the sacrified slot can't exceed the maximum spell level you can cast (a 9th level wizard can't cast a maximized fireball, but can cast an empowered one).

Vital strike and improved versions: they can be used during a charge. This damage is not multiplied by feats, critical, etc.

Cleave and improved cleave: they can be used against enemies that you threat. They don't have to be adjacent.

Every feat that refers to a single weapon (like weapon focus): now this feats works on fighter's weapon groups. For example you can take weapon focus in all heavy blade, or exotic weapon profiency for all exotic weapons in the polearms group.

Deflect arrows: against 1 attack / round make an opposite hit throw. Apply all appropriate bonuses for unarmed attacks. The result of the roll is you AC.

Missile shield and Ray shield: make 1 attack roll. Add shield bonus (even enanchment bonus). The result is your AC against the attack. 1 use / round.

Crane style feats: against 1 melee attack / round make a hit throw. Apply all bonus appropriate for unarmed attack except enanchment bonus. Instead add your dodge bonus derived from defensive combat or total defense. The result is your AC against the attack. You can't deflect ranged attack, ray attacks and melee weapons that are more of 2 categories bigger than you (a human character can deflect the 2h sword of an ogre, but not the bite of a great wyrm).

This feats are now traits

Childlike (APG)
Well-prepared (APG)
Leaf singer, Stone singer, War singer (APG)
Fight on (APG)
Racial Heritage (APG)
Improved stonecunning (APG)
Sharp senses (APG)
Groundling (APG)
Eclectic (APG)

classes

All classes that have 2 skill points / level now have 4 skill / level.

Fighter
At 4th level a fighter gets weapon specialization for all weapons in which he has weapon focus.
At 12th level he get greater weapon specialization for all weapons in which he has greater weapon focus.

Ranger
The animal companion is calculated on his level instead of level -3.


I start this 3d because I'd like to find out the reason of the old problem of disparity between casters and non casters. A problem not only involving character's power (opinions here are different) but also that seems that casters got so many options in comparison to non casters.

This is true. I explain that this way.

Everyone is used to fantasy. Books, films, etc. All this thing are inspiration for players. Here come the problem. It's normal that a fighter do the job of a fighter. Even if he's the hero, he will fight, maybe get the beautiful girl, kill the evil one and lead an army.
If a fighter do something like jumping 50 mt, deflect spells with his sword, using his spiritual strenght to resist magic, move faster than you could see... ok, this is no more fantasy ad anyone is used. This is a cinematic game style.

Instead a caster can do anything. Accepting that someone can cast a spell creates an automatic "suspension of disbelieve". So, a spell say that you cast a fireball? Uh, ok, no problem. Teleport? Yes, of course. And so on. Because we'r used to a narration that say that magic can do anything. Magic is used often as a narration tool, and it's useful because make happens thing that otherwise should not happen.
But this bring the game to the "cinematic level" that I wrote before.

So when players and designers put rules down they create the fighter to be a fighter (we got many example) and wizard to be wizard. Ok, seems silly, but in "normal" fantasy caster do a lot of thing. If we think about warriors that do a lot of thing maybe the best example is not traditional fantasy but japanese manga.
This is the game style of the old "Book of nine sword".

What I think we need, and now should be done by GM, or community, is to try to define what is "cinematic level" also for caster.
Spells that creates demiplane are a good example. Teleport is another one (not short form of teleport, but something that avoid a trip).
Etc. If a game include this options for a caster there's the need to add some to non casters.
I prefer to restrain a bit the power of characters, but it is my opinion. If I'll play a campaign when casters can do anything of what presented in books I think I'll add options to non casters.

Hope I am clear.
Now, speaking on rules, I want to discuss about something that bring the game to a "cinematic level".


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'm bored of all those nice low level spells that become useless at medium and high levels, so I created this rule for my game: spell DC is 10 + (level/2) + stat bonus (int, wis, cha, as class).
There are just few spells that need some change for game balance, and are less than spells that are never used because the original rules.

Opinions?


There are a lot of change to rules made by devs that are scattered around the forum. Can we have a section or a PDF with all this change that are official? It's difficult to follow all this news, expecially for non native english speakers.
Thanks, hope this is possible.


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

From the feat: " In addition, removing the condition requires the target to spend a standard action.".
You can give the nauseated condition for 1d4 rounds, +1 / 5 point you surpass the CMD. You can't take standard action while nauseated.
I think that this is broken. Some clarification? This was intended?


How this two feats interact?

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/performing-combatant-combat

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/masterful-display-combat-perform ance

They contradict eachother. I would let my player use both, so having two performance feat out of stage combats.
What do you think about that?


Last game a player used the spell wandering star motes
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advanced/spells/wanderingStarMotes.html
The spell affected a barbarian, the after 2 rounds he saved and the spell "bounced" to the nearest enemy, but he was an undead.
Now, my questio is: how can I handle this? I decided that the spell bounced on the undead for 1 round, then since he can't be affected the spell bounced again as it would have made the save.

Any suggestion, or clarification from the staff please?

Thank


This house rules are intended to play campaign with a "pirates" level of technology.

Firearms are martial weapons.

Firearms don't bypass all armor bonuses. Firearms have an armor penetration rating, and is "max dice dmg -2". So a gun that deal a d8 dmg got an armor penetration of 6. This value is decreased by the distance penalty (in this case would be 4 in the second range increment, then 2, and so on).
In this way the armor penetration depends from the firearms power and distance, now instead more the enemy is armored, more you got advantage in the encounter than character that don't use firearms. Also, a very big armor will give protection against firearms, and I think this is more realistic.

Ammunitions costs just like arrows. Black powder is not a strange stuff in this tech level, and crafting it is not more difficult than crafting arrows.
If rules are too much restrictive they are ignored, or bypassed. Instead of spending money in ammunition players will buy a 2.000 gold item that give you infinite bullets (abundant amunition, 1st level, caster level 1, at use).

Reload time.
Reload a gun at full capacity requires a standard action. This became a movement action if you have the rapid reload feats or alchemical cartridge, and a free action if you have both.
For a 2 handed firearm time is full round, then standard, then movement.
I think this is good for full capacity. Normal rules states that this time is required for just a bullet, but I think that 2h firearsm are underpowered in this way.

Note that you can fire with a gun at normal attack rate but with a chance of misfire of 1/6.7. Rougly a misfire every 7 hit rolls. This, if you take the amateur gunslinger feat (quick clear), means that you spend a standard or movement action.
More or less a 6 level character will misfire every 2 rounds, without magic enanchment that reduce this chance.
I suggest that remove the broken condition caused by misfire requires a full round action, not more. GM can require a craft firearms check.

Gunsmithing feat is no more. Crafting a firearm is like normal craft.

The cost of firearms should be revised. I think that every GM should adapt to his own campaign. Maybe the cost should be halved, but I think that every firearm should be considered singly.

I am considering to change the "reliable" and "greater reliable" firearms special abilities. I think that this SA should have a fixed cost (like +1000 gold, +4000, etc) and not a +1/+3. I think that this should be managed like composite mighty longbow. I'm still thinking how much this should cost.

Every suggestion or contribution is well accepted :)


This house rules are intended to play campaign with a "pirates" level of technology.

Firearms are martial weapons.

Firearms don't bypass all armor bonuses. Firearms have an armor penetration rating, and is "max dice dmg -2". So a gun that deal a d8 dmg got an armor penetration of 6. This value is decreased by the distance penalty (in this case would be 4 in the second range increment, then 2, and so on).
In this way the armor penetration depends from the firearms power and distance, now instead more the enemy is armored, more you got advantage in the encounter than character that don't use firearms. Also, a very big armor will give protection against firearms, and I think this is more realistic.

Ammunitions costs just like arrows. Black powder is not a strange stuff in this tech level, and crafting it is not more difficult than crafting arrows.
If rules are too much restrictive they are ignored, or bypassed. Instead of spending money in ammunition players will buy a 2.000 gold item that give you infinite bullets (abundant amunition, 1st level, caster level 1, at use).

Reload time.
Reload a gun at full capacity requires a standard action. This became a movement action if you have the rapid reload feats or alchemical cartridge, and a free action if you have both.
For a 2 handed firearm time is full round, then standard, then movement.
I think this is good for full capacity. Normal rules states that this time is required for just a bullet, but I think that 2h firearsm are underpowered in this way.

Note that you can fire with a gun at normal attack rate but with a chance of misfire of 1/6.7. Rougly a misfire every 7 hit rolls. This, if you take the amateur gunslinger feat (quick clear), means that you spend a standard or movement action.
More or less a 6 level character will misfire every 2 rounds, without magic enanchment that reduce this chance.
I suggest that remove the broken condition caused by misfire requires a full round action, not more. GM can require a craft firearms check.

Gunsmithing feat is no more. Crafting a firearm is like normal craft.

The cost of firearms should be revised. I think that every GM should adapt to his own campaign. Maybe the cost should be halved, but I think that every firearm should be considered singly.

I am considering to change the "reliable" and "greater reliable" firearms special abilities. I think that this SA should have a fixed cost (like +1000 gold, +4000, etc) and not a +1/+3. I think that this should be managed like composite mighty longbow. I'm still thinking how much this should cost.

Every suggestion or contribution is well accepted :)


12 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Answered in the FAQ.

I have a question about the spell "aspect of the falcon" (advanced player's guide).
The spell state that the critical treath and multiplier of bows and crossbows became 19-20 x3. The spells also says that this bonus is not cumulative with other conditions that increase critical treath of a weapon.
This is clear if you have a bow (critical 20 x3) but a crossbow? This spell doesn't enanche the treath, just the multiplier. So, you can benefit from this spell bonuses and something that increase the treath?


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

I have an animal companion (3 int) and I'd like to take with his feats improved grapple (nice for a ranged character). This feat requires improved unarmed attack, but this is a wasted feat for an animal, that got natural attacks.
It seems legit to think that he don't need this req, or that he can take the grab ability with a feat.
What do you think about this?


I have a question about quickened spells and how they functions in combat.
A quickened spell (or any action that provoke and became a swift action) still provoke?
Someone can prepare a standard action to interrupt a swift spell (or a quickened one)?


The question is this: if a barbarian uses come and get me, and with the attack triggered use the feat pushing assault, what appens?

If the target has no more movement, he can't attack the barbarian (he could with ranged or reach weapon).

If the target declared a full attack action, he can take a 5 f step?

If he has already taken the step, can modify the full attack action in an attack action and takin the remaining movement and THEN attack, or he have to make the attack as declared, and so he can't move before and after this attack?


My question is that: if someone hit me and i use flesh wound (rage power), i should save vs original damage before reduction or I should apply the damage reduction and then save?


Now i have a question about the rules. Let's take the Titan Mauler. At 2nd level, he has the ability to use 2h weapon in one hand, but only if of appropriate size (like a greataxe for medium characters in one hand, but not a large longsword).
Ok, that's clear. At 3rd level he can reduce the penalty for using inappropriate sized weapons by 1/3 barbarian levels. Nice. Now, the general rule states that a medium creature can use a large longsword like a 2h sword but with a -2 for his size. There's nothing that says that you can use a large greataxe with 2h at -2 penalty, doing 3d6 damage per hit at -2 attack bonus, so no extra damage :)
If we follow the general rule, this barbarian archetype sucks. A lot. The malus reduction doesn't work with the 2nd level ability, and can't give you extra damage. It just let you use some magic weapons that giants could have, but... are this two options powerful like uncanny dodge and trap sense? Seems that the only way to use this archetype is for small sized characters, that could have problem with damage dice, but this could help if you play a barbarian with 1h weapons, or maybe if u never find nor buy magic weapons of your size (and your GM is an idiot).

Maybe this archetype is not limited to this choice, and can use a large greataxe with 2h. Would be nice, but we have to make some count.

At 18th level you can use weapons 3 size bigger than yours without penalties. That means your greatsword do 6d6 damage per hit. With the vital strike talent tree, this became 24d6. With the 14th level ability, Titanic Rage, 36d6, that a barbarian can maximize with furious finish (being immune to fatigue is not so hard). I will not consider now mounted charge.

Now, with a build 1 oracle level / barbarian you can use limited power rage once a round during rage, since you need only a free action to end and start rage(like energy absorption), and every round you can do 36d6 maximized plus all your bonus.

As GM, now i will let use this archetype only with a level based limitation to weapon size (4d6 is acceptable i think), or using general rules but allowing the 2nd and 3rd level ability to work togheter.
Once a rage limited powers in my game are now "once an encounter".


Now i have a question about the rules. Let's take the Titan Mauler. At 2nd level, he has the ability to use 2h weapon in one hand, but only if of appropriate size (like a greataxe for medium characters in one hand, but not a large longsword).
Ok, that's clear. At 3rd level he can reduce the penalty for using inappropriate sized weapons by 1/3 barbarian levels. Nice. Now, the general rule states that a medium creature can use a large longsword like a 2h sword but with a -2 for his size. There's nothing that says that you can use a large greataxe with 2h at -2 penalty, doing 3d6 damage per hit at -2 attack bonus, so no extra damage :)
If we follow the general rule, this barbarian archetype sucks. A lot. The malus reduction doesn't work with the 2nd level ability, and can't give you extra damage. It just let you use some magic weapons that giants could have, but... are this two options powerful like uncanny dodge and trap sense? Seems that the only way to use this archetype is for small sized characters, that could have problem with damage dice, but this could help if you play a barbarian with 1h weapons, or maybe if u never find nor buy magic weapons of your size (and your GM is an idiot).

Maybe this archetype is not limited to this choice, and can use a large greataxe with 2h. Would be nice, but we have to make some count.

At 18th level you can use weapons 3 size bigger than yours without penalties. That means your greatsword do 6d6 damage per hit. With the vital strike talent tree, this became 24d6. With the 14th level ability, Titanic Rage, 36d6, that a barbarian can maximize with furious finish (being immune to fatigue is not so hard). I will not consider now mounted charge.

Now, with a build 1 oracle level / barbarian you can use limited power rage once a round during rage, since you need only a free action to end and start rage(like energy absorption), and every round you can do 36d6 maximized plus all your bonus.

As GM, now i will let use this archetype only with a level based limitation to weapon size (4d6 is acceptable i think), or using general rules but allowing the 2nd and 3rd level ability to work togheter.
Once a rage limited powers in my game are now "once an encounter".