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I have some questions about how the Shadow Double functions. Here's the rules text:

Shadow Double (Sp): An ankou’s shadow can take a full-round action to create a single, quasi-real, shadowy duplicate. This shadow double remains in his square, mimicking his movements as a single mirror image, except that it lasts until it is destroyed or he chooses to dismiss it as a swift action. This ability does not stack with the mirror image spell or with similar abilities, such as the copycat ability of the Trickery domain.

At 5th level, an ankou’s shadow gains a second shadow double. In addition to using these shadow doubles as mirror images in his square, he can move his doubles as part of his own move action, dividing his movement between himself and his doubles. When outside his square, shadow doubles do not protect the ankou’s shadow as mirror image and are limited in the actions they can take....

1.) Can I use any form of movement for the shadows, or ONLY a move action?

Can I split a run/withdrawal?
Can I split a charge?
Can a shadow 5-foot step?

2.) Can I leave a shadow in my square as I move (dividing the movement as 30/0)?

3.) If so, can I do it only as part of a move action or can I 5-foot step, run, withdrawal, etc. and leave a shadow in my original square?

4.) Can two shadows share the same square without me, and can they mimic each other's movements?

5.) Can this ability be used with the Quicken Spell-Like Ability feat?

Fighting Defensively as a Standard Action

From what I've read so far, many people believe that any action beyond the "attack action" can't use Fighting Defensively. I'm challenging this. Compare this to Vital Strike and Combat Expertise:

Vital Strike and Combat Expertise specifically designate the attack action unlike the rules for Fighting Defensively: "when attacking" vs "when you use the attack action/when making an attack action". This wording is what prevents Vital Strike from being used along with things such as Cleave. Likewise:

Fighting Defensively as a Full-Round Action

It specifically differentiates between a full-round action and a full-attack action. This is the important part. In the section title it says "full-round action". It is clarifying that if you want to use fighting defensively while doing a full-round action, you have to use a full-attack. The rules for using it as a standard action do not do this. They only state that you must attack, not that you must specifically use the attack action.

Keep this errata in mind: "Vital Strike can only be used as part of an attack action, which is a specific kind of standard action." Attacking != Attack Action. There are many actions that lead to an attack, such as Alchemist Bombs, Cleave, and Touch Spells. These WOULD work with Vital Strike and Combat Expertise, except their wording specifically states you must be doing the attack action. The rules for Fighting Defensively as a standard action do not. Hence touch spells, which result in an attack, should work.

If I'm wrong I'd like to hear why. I just want to understand these rules properly.

Pathfinder is great for telling stories you spend time and effort into creating, but I tend to have the most fun (as a DM and as a player) when things go completely off-track and you're required to "just roll with it". If you have any good stories of such sessions then this is the thread to share them in.

Can the spells "Evolution Surge, Lesser" and "Evolution Surge" stack?

They are two different spells so I assume that I could cast lesser, take a single evolution for 1-2 points, and cast the base spell for a single evolution worth 1-4 points. At least, that's how I'm interpreting this.

I see three ways this could work:

A.) They don't stack and Evolution Surge overwrites Evolution Surge, Lesser.
B.) They stack and apply their effects to two different evolutions.
C.) They stack and apply their effects to one evolution, so it is one evolution of 2-6 points.

Which is correct?

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I also want to ask how these spells would work with Evolution Surge, Greater which allows any two evolutions worth 2-6 total points, but this seems entirely dependent on how the above works.

Relevant link

Is it just every attempt to continue the grapple, or does it include the first grapple attempt?

This is a pretty significant point, actually.

Eidolon Rake:
An eidolon grows dangerous claws on its feet, allowing it to make 2 rake attacks on foes it is grappling. These attacks are primary attacks. The eidolon receives these additional attacks each time it succeeds on a grapple check against the target. These rake attacks deal 1d4 points of damage (1d6 if Large, 1d8 if Huge). This evolution is only available to eidolons of the quadruped base form. This evolution counts as one natural attack toward the eidolon’s maximum. The summoner must be at least 4th level before selecting this evolution.

According to Jason Bulmahn, Eidolon Rake is independent of the standard rules.

Paired with the Grab ability, this lets an Eidolon use the following tactic:

Claw -> Free grapple check from Grab -> Two Rakes -> Drop as a free action -> Claw -> Repeat

In addition, whatever a "check" is, determines the bonuses granted to grapple checks.

Eidolon Grab:
An eidolon becomes adept at grappling foes, gaining the grab ability. Pick bite, claw, pincers, slam, tail slap, or tentacle attacks. Whenever the eidolon makes a successful attack of the selected type, it can attempt a free combat maneuver check. If successful, the eidolon grapples the target. This ability only works on creatures of a size one category smaller than the eidolon or smaller. Eidolons with this evolution receive a +4 bonus on CMB checks made to grapple.

Improved Grapple:
You do not provoke an attack of opportunity when performing a grapple combat maneuver. In addition, you receive a +2 bonus on checks made to grapple a foe. You also receive a +2 bonus to your Combat Maneuver Defense whenever an opponent tries to grapple you.

Greater Grapple:
You receive a +2 bonus on checks made to grapple a foe. This bonus stacks with the bonus granted by Improved Grapple. Once you have grappled a creature, maintaining the grapple is a move action. This feat allows you to make two grapple checks each round (to move, harm, or pin your opponent), but you are not required to make two checks. You only need to succeed at one of these checks to maintain the grapple.

AC: 31 (10 Armor, 8 Nat, 3 Dex)
CMB: +21 (+29 if grappling)
CMD: 34

Feats:
Improved Unarmed Strike
Improved Grapple
Greater Grapple
Power Attack
TBD

Evolutions:
Claws x2
Large
Grab (Claws)
Rake
Mount
Flight
Energy Attacks
Pounce
Natural Armor x2
*Skilled (Aspect)

Attacks:
Strength: 28 (+9)
BAB: +11
Size: -1

Bite +19 (1d8+9) 4 Claws +19 (2d6+9)

Except, the actual damage with Energy Attacks, Grab, Rake, and Power Attack is:
Bite +16 (1d8+1d6+9+6) 4 Claws +16 (2d6+9+6) 8 Rakes (2d6+9+6)

For a combined total of 1d8+25d6+195. Average: 287

The Eidolon will generally be flying and using the Charge action with Ride by Attack. Basically swooping down, full attack, repeat.

The Summoner will be using Evolution Surge to make sure Energy Attacks won't be resisted by changing between Cold/Fire/Electricity/Acid

If the party encounters a Large/Huge creature then I'll cast Enlarge Person and have the Eidolon grapple it continuously

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The Summoner will be using a lance with Spirited Charge, Power Attack, and high strength when more damage is needed, or just casting and using Ride checks in place of the Eidolon's saves or AC.

The Summoner's Ride will be +28 (14 ranks, 1 dex, 5 enhancement, 8 Skilled), so that's pretty much a guaranteed save and, on average, +10 to the Eidolon's AC for two hits per round.

Thoughts? I really don't know how this matches up at lv 14 but it seems pretty good. I'm concerned it might be too strong and overshadow the other players (Oracle, Ninja, Rogue).

Mounted Combat/Trick Riding
Indomitable Mount
Ride-By Attack

I'm a little bit confused about how the Summoner's spell list interacts with wand creation. Wands are only supposed to allow up to 4th level spells, but Summoners uniquely make lv5+ spells as lv4.

Does this mean all those higher level spells are actually considered lv4? Or, does it mean that such wands exist but every maker of them has been a Summoner? Can other spellcasters use the wands even though their version of the spell is higher level?

Example:
Teleport

School conjuration (teleportation); Level sorcerer/wizard 5, summoner 4, magus 5, witch 5; Domain travel 5; Bloodline abyssal 7, arcane 7

Summon Stampede

School conjuration (summoning); Level cleric/oracle 6, druid 6, summoner 4

Stoneskin, Communal

School abjuration; Level alchemist 5, druid 6, inquisitor 5, sorcerer/wizard 5, summoner 4

Wall of Stone

School conjuration (creation) [earth]; Level cleric/oracle 5, druid 6, magus 5, sorcerer/wizard 5, summoner 4; Domain earth 5

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Honestly, it seems a bit cheesy to be able to build the Great Wall of Alarox by spamming "Wall of Stone".

In our current campaign we're skipping in-game time and a few levels for story purposes. With my eidolon becoming so much stronger my actual character seems more and more restricted to staying back and casting the occasional buff. Before this skip I used to stay next to him in combat and deal adequate damage with adequate survival. I'm trying to find ways to continue being a factor. My Eidolon is pretty much optimized.

The thing I've definitely decided on is making my eidolon a mount and specializing in mounted feats. This way we get all the benefits associated with being next to each other and I can do things like using Ride checks in place of his AC and saves in addition to always being in Touch range for spells. I can also use him as total cover when needed. I'll probably take the Skilled (Ride) evolution from Aspect for +8 Ride unless something else seems like a better idea.

The only problem is considering what should I be doing besides that? I've considered a few things.

1.) Multi-Weapon Fighting + Arms.

So, using a 2d6 two-handed with two 1d6 light weapons and Power Attack. That would require 3/7 feats I'll have at 12th level so 4 are left over for Mounted feats.

The problem here is that the damage won't scale. My strength won't be increasing that much (you guys tell me?), so while I'll be dealing an average of 60 or so damage/round with power attack (assuming I hit with everything), it won't be much compared to my eidolon or our other PCs. My Strength is currently 18 for +4, and I could cast Bull's Strength on myself. I don't really know how to increase it beyond that. Maybe enchanted items with +STR and enchanted weapons for +DAM? I don't want to dump feats into this if I'll just be outclassed at lv16+ when I could have done something else to be more effective.

2.) Lance + Spirited Charge.

It's a pretty obvious combo but it has the same problems as above. Assuming power attack at 12th level. Damage: 3d8+27+18 Average: 61.5 damage in a single hit. But after that one hit I'd have to sacrifice my Eidolon's damage output just for us to pull back and charge again. I guess I could combine that with #1 though.

3.) Being a Tank.

Basically, using a Shield and taking all the Mounted and Shield feats associated, increasing my eidolon's AC, and being sure to not take damage so I can give him health all the time. The problem is that its a lot of feats for a small gain and using a Shield gives spell failure (which isn't much in this case but would be really annoying). Plus, I wouldn't really be doing anything except sitting there.

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So anyone have advice or see something I'm not? Am I underestimating how much damage I could deal at lv20 with multi-weapon fighting and Power Attack?

There's actually a few rules I need clarification with. I know how much everyone loves grapple...

1.) Eidolon Grab vs Grab Errata

Which wins out? I'm not sure whether or not it wasn't changed because they skipped over it or because it was meant to be that way. I think Summoners came before the errata so that makes me even more confused.

Eidolon Grab: An eidolon becomes adept at grappling foes, gaining the grab ability. Pick bite, claw, pincers, slam, tail slap, or tentacle attacks. Whenever the eidolon makes a successful attack of the selected type, it can attempt a free combat maneuver check. If successful, the eidolon grapples the target. This ability only works on creatures of a size one category smaller than the eidolon or smaller. Eidolons with this evolution receive a +4 bonus on CMB checks made to grapple.

Grab Errata:
Page 301—In the Grab section, in the first paragraph, delete the second sentence, which reads “Unless otherwise noted, grab works only against opponents at least one size category smaller than the creature.” After the second paragraph, add the following paragraph: Unless otherwise noted, grab can only be used against targets of a size equal to or smaller than the creature with this ability. If the creature can use grab on creatures of other sizes, it is noted in the creature’s Special Attacks line.

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2.) Grapple Success Bonus

Is this bonus only from the initial grapple? Also, does this add to my eidolon's CMD against the opponent attempting to break the grapple?

As a standard action, you can attempt to grapple a foe, hindering his combat options. If you do not have Improved Grapple, grab, or a similar ability, attempting to grapple a foe provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of your maneuver. Humanoid creatures without two free hands attempting to grapple a foe take a –4 penalty on the combat maneuver roll. If successful, both you and the target gain the grappled condition. If you successfully grapple a creature that is not adjacent to you, move that creature to an adjacent open space (if no space is available, your grapple fails). Although both creatures have the grappled condition, you can, as the creature that initiated the grapple, release the grapple as a free action, removing the condition from both you and the target. If you do not release the grapple, you must continue to make a check each round, as a standard action, to maintain the hold. If your target does not break the grapple, you get a +5 circumstance bonus on grapple checks made against the same target in subsequent rounds. Once you are grappling an opponent, a successful check allows you to continue grappling the foe, and also allows you to perform one of the following actions (as part of the standard action spent to maintain the grapple).

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3.) "Damage" Action and Energy Attacks

I'm guessing they mean all associated damage like strength bonus and elemental damage?

Energy Attacks:
An eidolon’s attacks become charged with energy.

Pick one energy type: acid, cold, electricity, or fire. All of the eidolon’s natural attacks deal 1d6 points of energy damage of the chosen type on a successful hit. The summoner must be at least 5th level before selecting this evolution.

"Damage" Action:
You can inflict damage to your target equal to your unarmed strike, a natural attack, or an attack made with armor spikes or a light or one-handed weapon. This damage can be either lethal or nonlethal.

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4.) Initial Rake

Does the rake damage work on the first grapple as well? It says on every successful check, but it also says only on foes it is grappling, which it isn't until it makes the first check. If the order is check->succeed->grapple->rake it works.

Rake:
An eidolon grows dangerous claws on its feet, allowing it to make 2 rake attacks on foes it is grappling. These attacks are primary attacks. The eidolon receives these additional attacks each time it succeeds on a grapple check against the target. These rake attacks deal 1d4 points of damage (1d6 if Large, 1d8 if Huge). This evolution is only available to eidolons of the quadruped base form. This evolution counts as one natural attack toward the eidolon’s maximum. The summoner must be at least 4th level before selecting this evolution.

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5.) Full Attack and Grab

What happens if the first attack succeeds and so does the grapple check? Do the rest of the attacks hit? Can I use those to grapple my target again?

Even more importantly, can I use the rest of those attacks to hit other enemies and grapple them as well? Greater Grappling allows two checks, one move and one standard, so shouldn't it be possible to grapple two opponents?

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Thanks in advance.

So I'm starting a new campaign in a custom setting and the enemies for the main conflict will be fire/magma and (mostly) ash oriented. I can find plenty of fire/magma-based creatures but so far I've only found an Ash Giant.

I'll probably end up creating my own creatures but I'd prefer finding ash-based creatures that are already established as well. I'm also open to suggestions on what abilities ash based creatures should have. I already have a lot of ideas but I'm always looking for more. More specifically, any ideas on how an Ash Elemental would function since I know I'll include those.

The world I've created is earth-like but mostly split up into large islands. One of the continents is highly volcanic and therefore coated in ash, and the surrounding islands are as well. Any fighting the PCs encounter will most likely be in areas where said creatures will have terrain advantage, so that should influence their fighting capabilities.

The three things I'm looking for:
1.) Ash-based creatures already created
2.) Ideas for ash-based abilities
3.) Idea for an Ash Elemental

Bonus Points: Any ideas on how a more technological population would deal with an Ash-creature invasion. The campaign setting is more Crossbows over Longbows, Alchemists over Wizards, and Muskets over +3 Greatswords.

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Edit: One last question. Devils vs Demons. Which is more likely to want to conquer mortals by force? I understand Devils want to gain your soul while demons want to torture your flesh. Devils have a heirarchy while Demons are... chaotic.

I'm leaning towards Devils for this scenario because they are cunning and prefer to utilize underlings, but it seems a bit out of character that a Devil would resort to all-out force rather than manipulation. However, a Devil could take the souls he's stolen and turn them into ash minions.

I've read all of the blog posts and I've looked around the forums a bit, but I don't see any confirmation on a few things (which is to be expected of course, the game is early in development). In particular are mechanics behind targeting, projectiles, hit detection, and the practical uses of movement in combat.

(I should clarify, by hit detection I mean any method of determining hits that isn't based solely on having a target. AoEs are an example.)

As far as I understand, the targeting system in an MMO is mostly dependent on the functionality of projectiles and the existence of hit detection (besides AoE). Most MMOs don't use actual projectiles. Instead, they treat a ranged attack as an immediate effect with an animation to make it look like a projectile. Some games utilize actual projectile and hit detection mechanics. Some games have certain non-projectile attacks (touch/melee) using hit detection as well. Most games treat a touch/melee attack the same way as a ranged attack without projectile functionality or hit detection, the only difference being animation and range.

Having hit detection also creates the possibility of avoiding attacks via movement. This means almost all melee attacks will have cast times associated with the animations (instead of being instant), thus allowing players to step out of the attack range/arc. It also means projectiles would likely be coded as more than animations and have actual hitboxes (unless another method can be used) and flight times.

Here are three example combat systems I've seen in MMOs:

1.) World of Warcraft (traditional MMO)

Here you don't usually deal with hit detection or actual projectiles. Thus, abilities require a target and tab targeting is the dominant method of combat. At the activation of the ability, after the cast time, the calculations are automatically made.

2.) Guild Wars 2

Here you use a combination of hit detection, projectiles, tab targeting, and movement. Projectiles generally go in either the direction of your camera, to the nearest enemy in sight, or towards your target. Projectiles generally have flight times and hit detection; some having honing aspects. Melee attacks function similarly, however you never require a target. You activate your attack, and the game checks during a certain part of the animation to see if any enemies are within range. Some attacks hit an individual enemy while some cleave.

For ranged combat you'll require a target to be effective; for melee attacks you don't require one but having one allows you to be more accurate. Almost every attack can be used with a target or without one.

Obviously this allows for a lot of damage avoidance through movement, whether avoiding a projectile or barely dodging a melee attack. Certain attacks are essentially unavoidable by design though.

From what I understand, ESO is similar to Guild Wars 2 overall except you have the addition of a crosshair on screen to accurately fire projectiles without having a target.

3.) TERA

It is essentially the same as a traditional MMO like World of Warcraft except instead of tab targeting you use your crosshair to look at them. While you are looking at them they function identical to being tab targeted.

You apparently can't avoid attacks simply by moving (only with certain abilities), so hit detection and projectiles aren't a very utilized feature. This is just a modified version of the traditional MMO combat.

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Personally, I believe the Guild Wars 2's combat philosophy is the most superior model (thus far) for a few simple reasons. First, as someone who has played Guild Wars 2 for over a thousand hours, it is simply the most engaging combat I've experienced in an MMO. Even though it is a themepark which gets boring quickly, the combat is what kept me engaged until I stopped playing.

In MMO combat there's really two ways you seem to interact with allies and enemies. Either through managing your abilities, resources, cooldowns, and effects, or through movement and positioning.

World of Warcraft represents the bare minimum of the latter although they've progressively tried to ramp up how much mobility and positioning mean in certain encounters through the use of AoE.

TERA attempts to mold the World of Warcraft combat model into something more engaging and action oriented, but it simply creates the illusion that the fundamental combat is different with the implementation of the crosshair instead of tab targeting (don't get me wrong, it does feel different and is more engaging, but at the end of the day it is the same old dish you've eaten for the last 10 years).

The Elder Scrolls Online and Guild Wars 2 take both designs, the micromanagement and movement/positioning, and attempt to utilize both. Micromanagement of abilities and resources is prevalent with the same kinds of interactions between abilities like you would expect in an MMO, but with the addition of the ability to affect the battle equally through movement.

Going off of Guild Wars 2, you can avoid almost every single attack (you don't always because of cooldowns, CC, etc., and your enemies not being stupid of course). Projectiles can be dodged, AoEs can be anticipated and avoided, melee attacks can be sidestepped. The game supplements this with a dodge mechanic along with many movement oriented abilities.

People may disagree with me, but I believe such systems are vastly superior than the standard style of playing a numbers game, where you focus almost entirely on your UI and micromanagement to the exclusion of all else.

Melee combat between two parties in a traditional MMO isn't played in a way that a tabletop RPG makes you imagine. It's not how heroes fight in stories and it's not how we like to imagine our characters.

Generally you walk up to each other and start your rotations, watch our for abilities you want to interrupt, managine your buffs and debuffs, and the person with the best gear or build wins. Some people like to circle strafe or jump to try to mess you up, but against competent players there's not much of a point in moving at all.

In an action MMO, and in a game like Guild Wars 2, you don't stand still doing nothing. You're actively engaging in avoiding/blocking attacks and trying to force enemies into taking your best attacks. You don't utilize buffs and debuffs as consistent effects (generally, there are common exceptions depending on builds which is fine) instead you use them situationally based on how the fight is going and your positioning relative to your enemies. The skill cap is raised, the variety of fights drastically increased, and you're always engaged in what's happening.

That all being said, I'm not suggesting GW copies Guild Wars 2. I'm suggesting they consider how Pathfinder Online's combat will define itself, and not limit themselves to what a traditional themepark has done. Thus far, based on the information I've gathered, they haven't limited themselves, and some aspects that I've been discussing seem to be accepted ideals. I believe that Pathfinder Online has the ability to blow all the other competition out of the water in terms of combat, and I want this game to surpass Guild Wars 2 and Elder Scrolls Online.

However, I understand the complexity of what I'm asking they consider.

Coding something like TERA or World of Warcraft is much easier from a design perspective, and less taxing from a server perspective. It's much easier to code for automatic hit detection based on tab targeting instead of applying a hitbox to projectiles and adding in additional checks for melee/touch attacks. It's also much easier to balance abilities based solely on their interactions with each other, rather than the mechanical implications that stem from mobility.

However, I also understand that this stage in development is the only point at which GW can make this decision unless they intend to scrap the combat system entirely later down the line.

I could be babbling over nothing and they could have already clarified everything I'm discussing, so if that's a case I would appreciate some clarification. I already know they intend for abilities to generally be on the move, for example, with the main downside being Opportunity or opportunity cost for using other abilities with the Stationary requirement.

If they haven't entirely decided on these aspects of combat, then I'd like to elaborate on why I believe this combat is superior (besides just being more fun and engaging for me personally) and how I've envisioned this type of system merging with the aspects they've already discussed for Pathfinder Online.