Seriously, Druid or Oracle are great substitutions; the Druid even moreso, as they aren't a particularly effective healing class, due to reduced Cure progression (but maintain full status removal progression), and still function as a full Divine Spellcaster.
Neither Restoration nor Panacea appear on the Druid spell list. I should also point out that Remove Blindness/Deafness, Remove Curse and Remove Paralysis are also not on their list. Heal is a spell level higher. How are they full status removal progression?
2: Regarding Magic Vestment + Mage Armour, they will also stack. Mage armour grants an armour bonus (ie raises your base Armour Bonus to AC from 0 to 4). Magic Vestment adds an enhancement bonus to your Armour Bonus.
This can be cast on a normal set of clothing as mentioned in the spell description: An outfit of regular clothing counts as armor that grants no AC bonus for the purpose of this spell.
This is completely wrong.
Mage Armor surrounds you in a field of force that replicates armor, giving you an armor bonus.
It does NOTHING to your clothing or yourself.
Magic Vestment CANNOT target Mage Armor, because mage armor is a force effect and spell, not a suit of armor.
If you cast it on your AC 0 clothing, you get AC+5 clothing. Congrats, it works like a chain shirt or something for a few hours.
Since it provides +5 AC and is a suit of armor, it completely suppresses all the effects of the mage armor while in force, just like it would Bracers of Armor, since it has +5 Ac vs +4 from the Mage Armor.
Your clothing being AC 5 and the Mage Armor being AC 4 are seperate sources of armor and do not stack.
==Aelryinth
Nay, 'like' bonuses do not stack. But, for example, a 'sacred' bonus to AC will stack with an 'enhancement' bonus to AC.
Mage Armour provides a +4 'armor' bonus to AC. Magic Vestment provides an 'enhancement' bonus to AC. Ergo, they stack.
You are correct that you can't target the force effect created by the Mage Armour spell, but you can target your t-shirt to gain the 'enhancement' bonus.
Example B: Human (base natural armour of 0) is wearing an amulet of natural armour +1 (provides a +1 enhancement bonus to natural armour) total natural armour of +1 on his character sheet. He later receives a +3 enhancement bonus to natural armour from Barkskin. New total Natural armour of +3 on his character sheet as both Barkskin and the Amulet of Natural Armour provide enhancement bonuses to natural armour and as such they do not stack.
Ok, you have some rules interactions incorrectly applied.
The human with a natural armor bonus of 0 is wearing an Amulet of Natural Armor +1. So the +1 enhancement bonus is applied to the natural skin to be a +1 NAC and the +1 NAC is applied to his AC.
When he later gets the bark skin, it applies to his skin. He will have +3 (the barkskin and the natural +0) as a natural armor bonus applied to his AC.
Combining the two effects, he would have a non-stacking +1 from skin+aona and +3 non-stacking +3 from skin+barkskin. The two don't stack so he uses the +3 from the barkskin and the amulet is ignored.
Did you even read what I wrote mate? Given that you've just repeated me, I'm going to assume you misread my post.
Yep, hands are tied. Pathfinder core rule book page 5, completely backwards compatible with all 3.5 content. I hate that rule the most.
You're hands aren't tied! You're the damn GM! You don't have to allow anything from 3.5, and you will find that most people don't allow anything from 3.5 as most of the content (that people want to bring over) is pretty broken compared to Pathfinder content.
Yes it's backwards compatible, that means there is only a minimum of work that needs to be done to make it useable. Not that you have to use all content from 3.5.
When all the adventurers looks at me with "that face" with the big eyes and the pouty lips, I just fail my damn sense motive check every time.
However, when I'm a Player in someone else's campaign I avoid using 3.5 or older character options. I'll still use the source material for guidance though. For example, I still faithfully carry around my The Complete Paladin's Handbook so that when a paladin I'm playing strikes some moral dilemma I can consider: 'What would Sir Geffen do?'
Going off original topic a bit, but regarding Greenbound Summoning: The author of the feat [Ed Bonny] has stated that it should be a meta-magic feat that modifies the spell level by 2.
While that would go some distance toward rebalancing it, it's the greenbound template that needs the most work. Because you effectively gain access to a level 5 spell with a level 1 spell slot. Level 3 slot if you apply the +2 spell level adjustment.
I'm in the process of discussing with the other players how to modify it, but we're thinking along the lines of applying the template in a similar fashion to the way the celestial/fiendish templates are applied to other summoned creatures with abilities based on HD.
EDIT: Once again, thanks all for the suggestions. I'm going to have a few of the other players take control of the extra critters and make sure everything he wants to summon is represented by a mini and with a card showing its stat block.
It's more like casting barkskin (which grants an enhancement bonus to natural armor) while you have no natural armor and then casting another spell that grants natural armor: I can't imagine anyone would say they wouldn't stack.
Most natural armor bonuses do NOT stack.
Quote:
Armor bonuses and enhancement bonuses to armor are separate sources of AC and stack.
True.
Quote:
So if you cast Magic Vestment on an article of clothing that has a +0 armor bonus in order to gain a +(x) enhancement bonus to armor, it should stack with something that provides an armor bonus.
No. You can cast Magic Vestment on regular clothing to give it an armor enhancement bonus. However, that does not then stack with actual armor (magical or otherwise). Had you cast the Magic Vestment on non-magical armor then the armor and armor enhancement bonuses WOULD stack, but on two separate items they do not.
1: The point Gulthor is raising here is that the Barkskin spell adds a bonus to your base natural armour. In this case, an enhancement bonus to natural armour.
Example A: Human (base natural armour of 0) receives a +3 enhancement bonus to natural armour from Barkskin. New total natural armour of +3 on his character sheet.
Example B: Human (base natural armour of 0) is wearing an amulet of natural armour +1 (provides a +1 enhancement bonus to natural armour) total natural armour of +1 on his character sheet. He later receives a +3 enhancement bonus to natural armour from Barkskin. New total Natural armour of +3 on his character sheet as both Barkskin and the Amulet of Natural Armour provide enhancement bonuses to natural armour and as such they do not stack.
Example C: Lizardfolk (base natural armour of 5) receives a +3 enhancement bonus to natural armour from Barkskin. New total natural armour of +8 on his character sheet.
2: Regarding Magic Vestment + Mage Armour, they will also stack. Mage armour grants an armour bonus (ie raises your base Armour Bonus to AC from 0 to 4). Magic Vestment adds an enhancement bonus to your Armour Bonus.
This can be cast on a normal set of clothing as mentioned in the spell description: An outfit of regular clothing counts as armor that grants no AC bonus for the purpose of this spell.
According to the dictionary, it's anything that's clean and safe to drink.
Who cares about what the dictionary thinks.
Here's how RAW describes extracts: "Extracts are the most varied of the three. In many ways, they behave like spells in potion form, and as such their effects can be dispelled by effects like dispel magic using the alchemist's level as the caster level. Unlike potions, though, extracts can have powerful effects and duplicate spells that a potion normally could not."
i.e. They work exactly like potions except without the 3rd level spells cap that potions normally have.
Thanks for the tips guys, I'm sure the summoner won't be thrilled at doing the extra work outside the game session but I think he'll do it in the interest of speeding up the evening.
Regarding Sissyl and Delenot's comment: - the D4+1 is actually the most ridiculous part of the druid summoner thanks to a certain feat called "Greenbound Summoning" which the player was able to produce out of a Faerun sourcebook. Damn backwards compatible! *shakes fist*
While I thought the feat was ridiculously OP early on (early access to wall of thorns), it'll slowly fade over the rest of the campaign.
Back story:
I'm running the Carrion Crown AP and the party has a summoning build druid, diviner oracle, rogue, paladin (hosp), wizard (abj).
Typically each person in the party takes 1-2 min of real-life time to handle their turn in sequence as there is a fair bit of messing about and chit chat as well as the dice rolling.
I don't have an issue with someone wanting to summon armies of critters, but it is beginning to bog down play.
For example:
Play:
Round 1 everyone save the druid takes 1 min who takes 2 min because he's also handling his animal companion.
Round 2 everyone save the druid takes 1 min. The druid now takes 6 min because he debates as to where to place the D4+1 critters, act with the critters, act with his companion and then act with himself (he summons again)
Round 3 everyone takes 2min (stuff is getting real!) save the druid who takes ~20min as he places D4+1 new critters acts with his now 10 critters and then takes his own action.
This trend continues...
Unlike undead which have a HD limit of amount that can be controlled, summoned creatures do not. So there is not really any upward limit on how many can be summoned.
Can anyone suggest a few ways that can allow him to still have fun with summoned critters but without monopolising the evening's game time?
Authors are only human, could be they made a mistake? Personally I suspect they meant "Arrow Catching" instead of "Arrow Deflection" since this appears to be more in theme with the other on use ability.
That would make it a +2 equivalent cost shield with an extra ability placed at around 4k.
I agree with OP. Limits are what make the grind painful because you have no flexibility.
In an early 'vanilla' installment of a certain game there was no daily and no limit of 25 of them.
Despite being a 'hardcore' player I never felt any grind. Even certain *crazy* rep grinds.
I remember teaming up with a friend to earn rep with a certain bunch of metallic dragons by killing bugs in a certain desert for a couple of hours every evening before 'raid' time. I'd heal, he'd kill (they were big scary *elite* bugs).
In later installments of said game I felt press-ganged into playing every day or I'd fall behind. Even if I only needed to log in for 1-3hours per day, I still needed to log in for 1-3 hours (per character) each day or fall a little farther behind the cutting edge of content.
I like Decius' idea about being able to trade rep "I vouch for X" sort of fashion, that was something I really wanted in said other game.
Remember that in order for the Bishop (a Cleric)'s powers to function, he must remain within one alignment step of his Patron Deity. In this case he must be LG/NG/LN.
If he becomes evil (such as preaching / inciting / actively participating in acts of genocide) he will lose all his powers, as will clerics / paladins who follow those instructions.
However, if he's just taken a bump to the noggin or otherwise truly misguided or deceived (alternatively replaced by doppleganger or other illusion/shapeshifting), it is possible that he may misinterpret the cause of the loss of his powers. eg "We're being tested by Iomedae, we must eradicate all of these beasts of evil to regain our Lady's blessings!" He's still lost the powers, but he might ramp up the genocide rhetoric.
There may be some insanity/madness related traits & feats that allow you to fake an alignment or otherwise gain cleric powers without the proper alignment. Haven't got my source books on hand ;) But another trope from literature is that if the deceit is coming from a suitably powerful evil outsider or Deity, they may grant the powers to the cleric/bishop once Iomedae ceases (often without the cleric's immediate knowledge).
I can think of a 3.5 trait from the Shackled City adventure: - Dream Haunted. Note that this trait was designed along the lines described in Unearthed Arcana and has not yet been updated to the Pathfinder system. Talk to your GM.
The Dream Haunted trait may be found on page 402 (Appendix V, Character Options) of the Shackled City adventure... By James Jacobs... (I wonder if mentioning his name in vain really does summon him?)
Dream Haunted:
Your Dreams are haunted by strange visions of tortured landscapes and deformed monsters. In some of these dreams, YOU are the deformed monster!
Benefit: You are used to fatigue and suffer no penalties when you become fatigued. When you become exhausted, you are instead treated as if you are fatigued.
Drawback: You suffer a -2 penalty on saving throws against effects that cause madness or insanity, and on saving throws against sleep effects. If you are normally immune to sleep effects, you lose that immunity.
Roleplaying Ideas: You are always tired, though not to the point of fatigue. You tend to nod off when bored, and sometimes find it difficult to remember minor, relatively unimportant bits of information.
which merchant with the resource pool to trade for your 9 cubic feet of platinum is going to do so without using that zeroth level spell, detect magic?
Merchant: Oh nice, platinum.
Party: Want to trade some nice things for it?
Merchant: Let me look at it through these goggles first. Oh, it's a temporary pool of platinum. Not interested and I'm calling the city watch.
