Alabartus The Bard's page

I googled "Elder scrolls Pathfinder" and stumbled across this awesome thread & would like to revive it. I was thinking of putting together an Elder Scrolls campaign of my own & I like some of what you guys were doing here. I have a different vision though.

I want to do very little in the way of house rules. I have always thought simple is better so instead of writing a whole bunch of new rules I want to capture the 'spirit' of the Elder Scrolls universe while using mostly existing mechanics. Here's my 2 cents.

Human Templates: (make a standard Human then apply 1 template)

Breton: +2 Charisma, SR 5 +1 per character level
Imperial: +2 Diplomacy, Silver Tongue Alternate Racial Trait (RG Pg. 72), Also considering giving like 100 extra starting gold to reflect "Imperial Luck" ability.
Nord: +2 Intimidate, +2 will save. Roll 2d20 on intimidate; take higher of the two.
Redguard: +2 con +2 fort save. Diehard feat.

Elf:

Bosmer (Wood Elf): Elves (CRB Pg. 22) With alternate racial trait Wood Craft (RG Pg. 23), Animal Affinity Feat
Dunmer (Dark Elf): Drow (RG Pg. 103) With alternate racial trait Elemental Immunity: Fire 5 (RG Pg. 22)
Altmer (High Elf): Tower Elves Racial Subtype (RG Pg. 23)

Other Races:

Orc: Orc (RG Pg. 138)
Khajiit: Catfolk (RG Pg. 90)
Argonian: Nagaji (RG Pg. 196)

I personally would let the Dwemer stay extinct & keep Falmer (Snow Elves) as DM only NPCs since there are only a hand full in existence... but if I was to write them up though...

Dwemer: Dwarf (CRB Pg. 21) with the Ancient Enmity, Craftsmen, & Xenophobic alternate racial trait (RG Pg. 11)

Falmer (Snow Elves): Arctic Elf Racial Subtype (RG Pg. 23)

as for birth signs I like some of what Wyrmholez did, but I prefer spell slots over spell points & like I said I feel simpler is better. Here are my ideas:

NOTE: It's been a while since I've played Morrowind & I have never played Oblivion so I took most of my influence for this from the standing stones in Skyrim which I've been playing at length lately.

Warrior: BAB +2

Mage: CL +2

Thief: +2 to Skill checks

Apprentice: CL +4, -4 saves vs. Spells and Spell-like abilities.

Atronach: CL -2, +1 spell slot of each spell level you can cast.

Lady: Fort +2. Regen 1 hp per round or 1 per minute when not in combat.

Lord: AC +2, SR +10

Lover: +1 to BAB, CL, & skill checks.

Ritual: CL +2 for Necromancy school. SLA: “Animate Dead” 1x day.

Serpent: +4 saves versus poisons. SNA: Once per day Make a touch attack, if target fails a fort save they are paralyzed for 1d4+1 rounds. DC: 10 plus ½ your character level rounded up.

Shadow: SLA: “Invisibility” 3x day.

Steed: +10 movement speed & your Str is 4 higher for determining encumbrance.

Tower: SLA: Knock 3x day.

NOTE: I think any bonuses granted from birth signs should be considered a “Circumstance Bonus” Since all birth signs are “right time, right place” type deals, except for the bonus from The Serpent which should be infernal bonus. Canonically Serpent is not associated with any month, rather it pops up randomly & is considered a sign of bad luck. It's more of a "wrong time, wrong place" situation. Maybe Serpent should be a Luck Bonus? I mean, "bad" is a type of luck right?

From enlarge person, which demonic bulk replicates: Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack. Supernatural abilities are still magical. Every spell that affects size has this condition, and it is a general rule.

Pg. 554 of the PF Core Book:

Supernatural Abilities (Su): Supernatural abilities are magical...

It's the very first line. You are right, Demonic bulk is magical & by the wording you quoted from the spell they do not stack. Point conceded.

the Devs actually said that if something behaves like an spell, then it counts as that spell. so when something says, as enlarge person or any other spell, it effectively acts like that spell except where it specifies it is different.

for instance, copycat basically is mirror image. Likewise, your ability IS effectively Enlarge Person.

and well, you cannot cast enlarge person on yourself twice and get them to stack. :P

one clarification. I am not trying to stack enlarge person twice. I am trying to stack Demonic bulk (which yes is "like" enlarge person) with, say beast shape II for example which has the option of turning me in to a large animal. Are you saying I cant be an enlarged horse?

How about animal aspect I (Gorilla)? That doesn't actually increase my size at all, just my unarmed damage [a]as though[/i] I was one size bigger.

I have a whole host of spells I am considering here, I'm willing to pass on enlarge but there are other options.

It's amazing how this thread has turned into a rules debate on weapon proficiency and supernatural vs. spells/spell-like abilities.

I can't speak for others but I am not arguing. I just want people to cite their sources. If for no other reason than, when I go to apply the rule I can cite my source as well; & if there is no source, then it's not really a rule, is it?

Several problems with this build:

Weapon Focus: Claws would normally only be allowed if you have permanent claws, not rounds/day.

Why? I don't permanently have a long sword growing out of my hand, but I can have long sword WF. I've noticed people tend to make assumptions simply because it seems to "just makes sense". In some cases it makes so much sense you don't even realize you're assuming, you just thought you were following logic & common sense, but is it actually written in the description of the feat that you must have permanent claws to take WF claws? Nope. Like I said before, if you can point me to text in a book that says so, I'll gladly admit I'm wrong, but the core book says no such thing.

The polymorph section is about spells, but this rule applies generally to all size affecting increases. You can't have more than one. I know it's not clear, but that is the situation. Since Demonic Bulk works like a spell, you cannot have any other size increasing effect that will work on you at the same time.

Basically because it says as Enlarge Person, it works exactly like the spell. Which has that restriction.

I'm sorry, but I have to respectfully disagree. You're jumping to a conclusion base on an assumption with very little supporting evidence. First, if it worked exactly like the spell (which the word "exactly" does not appear in the description in the book) it wouldn't be a supernatural ability it would be a spell like ability. You can dispel enlarge, but not demonic bulk. There are mechanical differences in how they function. It is not exact, a better word would be "comparable".

Second, you can not simply assume a given rule applies unilaterally even to unrelated effects, "just because". If it's not written, it's not a rule, unless the DM says otherwise of course. If you can point me to a Paizo book (not third party, not WotC) that says, "only one step of size increase is allowed from ANY source, not just spells" or some variation there of I'll gladly concede the point; but given the text here I have no reason to believe that a supernatural size increase doesn't stack with a spell induced size increase especially since other people in this thread have given the same interpretations of the rules as me. That passage is very clearly only prohibiting the stacking of spells. I could even see the argument being made if Daemonic Bulk was a magical or spell like ability, but it's not even that much.

It's not a spell so, as I see it, it does not apply.

Why human? Go Half-Orc if you are using natural weapons, to get a bite as well.

Personal preference; no other reason. You are right, Orc would be mechanically superior choice for this build, but it's not always just about numbers on a sheet.

Just for clarification

Enlarge person (increases size obviously), but not a polymorph effect
Animal Aspect - Transmutation (polymorph)
Rage wont stack with your bloodrage abilities
Bull's strength works fine, though it is an enhancement bonus and wont stack with a belt of giant strength which is also an enhancement bonus
Beast Shape - Transmutation (polymorph)

You can only be under the effect of one of either enlarge person, beast shape, or animal aspect.

Yeah, I figured as much. My next question is would one of those at least stack with the Demonic Bulk Bloodrage ability, or does it still count as a polymorph?

It says in the description "(as enlarge person, even if you aren’t humanoid)" but I have always had a bit of trepidation as to weather that meant "counts as" or simply means "mechanically comparable to".

It is a Supernatural ability & the quoted text above does specify that I can only be affected by one polymorph Spell at a time. since this is not a spell but a bloodrage ability it's allowed right?

I am working on a Human Bloodrager (Advanced Classes Guide) with the abyssal blood line to take advantage of the rage claws at lvl 1 (also because abyssal is just nuts compared to the other bloodlines) & I want to optimize unarmed damage.

I have:

lvl 1. Claws (su): 1d6. At lvl 8 they gain 1d6 flaming.
lvl 4. Demonic Bulk (su): +1 size category.
lvl 12 abyssal Bloodrage (ex): which increase strength bonus from blood rage by 2 (4 at lvl 16 & 6 at lvl 20)

Bloodrager Spells:
Enlarge person +1 size category
animal aspect, Gorilla unarmed damage +1 size category
Bull's strength (bloodline bonus lvl 2 spell)
Rage (bloodline bonus lvl 3 spell)
Elemental touch + 1d6 of fire, ice, acid, or shock damage (chose one)
Beast shape II (I'd go with Dire ape)

So if I start as a medium size human use beast shape II to turn in to a dire ape (large) use enlarge person (huge) blood rage with Demonic bulk (gargantuan) then finally use animal aspect, gorilla to give my unarmed damage +1 size, my resulting unarmed damage would be equivalent to that of a colossal ape.

3 questions:

1. Is this how this works, or am I being overly optimistic?

2. Would Feats like Improved unarmed strike & 2WF (unarmed) do anything for this build or do they not apply to natural weapons?

3. Are there any other feats that would further enhance the unarmed DPS of this build?