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Pathfinder Adventure, LO Special Edition, PF Special Edition Subscriber
eljava77 wrote:
And the cleric says, “oh thank Sarenrae! I can’t afford to heal your face-pulling any more today either!” ![]()
Pathfinder Adventure, LO Special Edition, PF Special Edition Subscriber
I like the idea of resonance for magic items, but not for consumables...at least if the system as-is must use CHA with no other way to improve the pool than with score and level increases, and the pool to use and invest is tied together. I’ve processed through a lot with this, as so far it’s been my biggest concerning change of the previewed rules seen so far. Sorry this is long winded, I’m not sure what the tl;dr would summarize yet. Programmer’s perspective, my opinions have been based on the version control “change and check in” approach to what I’ve seen for 2e: I’m assuming otherwise a system behaves as it is in 1e aside from other known changes applied. I recognize this fallacy which is why I’m disclosing it.
Occultists got level +INT (their primary star even) of mental focus per day - sounds familiar, and it should. Occultist invest multiple points into various implements (now resonance into magic items), and they spend them throughout the day, reset after a long/nights rest. A solid unknown is now how this investment works each morning. For the occultist, investing 5 points gives a greater benefit than 1 or 2 points. I’m assuming for now that this is part of the resonance that has been brought over from the occultist implements feature, and likely makes it work. Occultist implements also burn up this invested resonance on use, so that also could be added complexity, more unknowns about how exactly it’s gonna work in the playtest. Lastly consumables use this same resource pool.... If this costs more than one resonance per resource for any reason (say, to de-power a magic item to allow a healing potion to take effect) then no dice; throwing it out with the baby and the bath water. Yes, this is another assumption from how I know the occultist works with implements at 4th level (shift focus). Based on my experience from playing an occultist at lower levels, level+INT wasn’t enough to get the fullest experience out of the class. There were so many options and very little to do without heavy consequences that left the character tapped out for the day after a LIGHT combat fight if he had to compensate for bad rolls at the table. If I’m now adding consumables to this list, - assuming magic item resonance investment will play the same as mental focus implement investment - this disparity of points needed and points available is grotesque. That is what gives me the greatest concern about what’s been inspired by the occultist to develop resonance, and if the devs still believe level+stat is enough. Assurances from Jason That no one ever risked this limit do not comfort me; I’ve seen how it feels at the table to walk the stressful cliff edge of spending my mental focus and losing a cascade of functionality. Occultists did get an “extra mental focus” feat, but it can only be taken once. It’s practically required to do much of anything with more than one implement. If this whole system sticks, I’m probably going to houserule double resonance for my players. Level+cha just won’t be enough even for sorcerers. Secondly, and better yet, the whole consumables burn resonance to use? PLEASE do not tie these together into the same pool! Even if I can draw the resonance out of an item at a 1:1 (something the occultist cannot do) it will cause problems. Thirdly, I read somewhere that the design team was surprised people thought this was fiddly. Well, the occultist handling of mental focus and implements is FIDDLY AS F. So yes, designers, of course the attempt to use resonance to replace UMD, wand of CLW, slots, and big 6 will be perceived fiddly AF. It takes me hours of homework outside the game to determine the best general fit allotment for my occultist, and then various alternatives for any given situation. If I didn’t, each “morning” I wasn’t doing a dungeon crawl I’d take 15+ minutes to figure out my mental focus. SO FIDDLY! And yes, prepared spellcasters have to do the same thing, but their spell list doesn’t have non-caster consequences if they only put 4 points into a brooch instead of 5... Low magic settings can also be narratively broken... say I have a half-orc fighter wielding this “shield of the protector” that’s so far been dormant... he goes up against a full orc warlord barbarian. As the orc baddie brings his great axe down to harm the fighter, he crits. The fighter had used a shield action, so the crit impacts against the shield. Unknown to the player the “shield of the protector” channels 1d6 positive healing energy whenever it takes a critical hit from an enemy. Narratively, now, I can’t force the fighter to spend resonance, the player didn’t know to invest any. The storytelling of this great moment for the players is lost because resonance cockblocked story, or worse, it’s diminished because “where’d his extra resonance come from? Does he keep it? Can I get some too?” Also, are intelligent items a thing in 2e? Do they have their own resonance pool or draw from the wielder’s? Seems like an item that has a personality... a force of will, might resonate differently and whatnot...might be fine to spend resonance to “convince the armor” to give me booms, but I’d think that’d be enough in the morning? I’m not sure... we could really use the full detail on this change. ![]()
Pathfinder Adventure, LO Special Edition, PF Special Edition Subscriber
Skeld wrote:
This is the biggest one to me why spamming the wands is such a commonplace thing at low levels, but also at higher levels. I would like to add/support this point with what bothers me about this the most. A potion of CMW costs 300gp for 1 use.
So immediately it's obvious to new players that it's cheaper to buy 6 potions of CLW than 1 bottle of CMW without really considering the difference. CLW is a minimum 1d8+1, CMW is a minimum 2d8+3. so for 6x the price I get an additional 1d8+2 healing.
The scale gets progressively worse with higher cost magic items simply for the fact that crafting is constructed in such a quadratic increase. Economically it makes sense to continue buying the Wands of CLW. Unless charges are going away from wands and there's a massive overhaul of the crafting system, I don't see how resonance alone will fix the cause of why we have CLW spamming and instead simply force the band-aid of it to no longer suffice. ![]()
Pathfinder Adventure, LO Special Edition, PF Special Edition Subscriber
After taking a look at the class, it feels like they went through a first pass idea based on what some coworkers-who-game said or even participated. If anyone wants to make it viable, the whole thing needs a bit of work. I’d start off with bringing the class settings in line with an aristocrat. 3/4 bab, d8 hd, etc. increase the starting gold, make the uniform based on a scaling value cost (a gentle-lady wouldn’t necessarily need a suit coat and pants, gentlemen may want to dress like ladies etc.).
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Pathfinder Adventure, LO Special Edition, PF Special Edition Subscriber
Robert Brookes wrote:
Reading this has locked in my decision to roll a Gillmen bloodrager. Can’t wait for my DM to start this! |