Abombom's page

You'll prefer Fleet as stated earlier in the thread! Stuff like Jet Dash will rarely be as useful as one might think it is at first glance. Especially in combat and especially in pre-designed adventures which lend themselves to 'normal' grid design. This applies to all traditional TTRPGs that leans into miniature combat or grids.

This is because the grids and distances involved are usually limited by table size. So say, for example, a grid might only represent 200x200 feet, of which very little are straight lines due to doors, buildings, etc.

Distance are also constrained by scenes of traditional settings. Namely dungeons (fantasy), urban buildings (modern), and station/starship hallways (sci-fi).

I'd say only 1 in every 5-10 sessions will there be a combat where major speed feats comes up useful, i.e. a scene where the GM sets up a grid where each square represents 10 feet rather than 5. It also works a lot better w/ GMs who are eager to bust out a 2nd "off main-map" grid like on a smaller table.

Generally usefulness is constrained to running down escaping enemies. Just by having jet dash, reasonable GMs should say "okay, you catch him" or "he realizes you can run him down and turns around to fight/plead' and occasionally they'll BS you by saying "he slips into a building/etc, do you pursue?" Having multiple ways of explaining how nothing can run away from you will lead to less BS (such as climb speeds, fly speeds, high athletics/acrobatics, etc."

Can also have decent out of combat utility. Like on thief characters where you can try to steal and then say "I run away" to which they shouldn't be able to chase at all beyond a turn or so. And other such creative ways.

> Playing spellcasters isn't fun if they either have to (1) make concentration checks, like in Pathfinder or (2) lose their spell from any damage, like in Starfinder.

Enemies still have to make their attack roll, which they only have like a 50% of making. Less if you're behind cover. Less if you have defensive buffs. Less if you have Mirror Image. 0% if you can abuse tactics (like smoke clouds or terrain positioning)

Not to mention the fact that if an enemy is waiting for you to cast a spell, you can just shoot him and he just wasted his turn while you didn't. Unless the GM allows the clause/trigger "will shoot if you do any offensive action" which is generous but understandable.

I don't understand how one can argue that spellcasters are useless just because they have a *chance* of losing their spell and have to weigh the *option* (not the necessity) of perhaps not casting their spells blindly and 100% safely without a care in the world. Spellcasters weren't useless in other editions when they could be interrupted, why would they be useless now?

> Damage can't kill enemies.

Standard party size of 4. Party decides to show mercy. That's 4 people who could be shooting a bad guy. They def stand a chance of killing him. Or maybe it's only 1-2 party members and the bad guy is full health in which case.......

> Bad guys are only stopped by damage.

No, the readied action could also be a blind/disable/Save-or-Suck/entangle/etc.

> 1st turn of combat

It isn't necessarily the 1st turn of combat in these examples, but even if it is (i.e. "roll for initiative!"), there's a high chance at least 2 party members act before the enemy.

> Players can totally understand these rules at first glance.

We can pretend these rules are intuitive but I'd subjectively argue based on all my past experience with varying different gamegroups that no, they're not at all.

Cheatsheets will help remedy this but meh.

And a better question: if these rules aren't upgrades, why were they changed in the first place? Concentration checks are way simpler to explain than this, which is full of exceptions and weird stuff, much like a tax code. "When you take damage, make a concentration check = to blah blah." versus "Damage interrupts spell-casting, except not standard action spell-casting, which is most spell-casting. Oh, and not ongoing damage. Oh, and not auto-hit damage like Magic Missle. Oh, and not area of effects you made your saves against. But yeah technically damage interrupts spell-casting."

Sometimes you have to step back and ask yourselves some common sense questions like: why do Attacks of Opportunity interrupt spellcasting?

Well, the same reason any damage interrupts >1 round spellcasting: it's implied damage interrupts the caster's concentration.

So why do Attacks of Opportunities, which do damage, interrupt standard action casting while ranged damage and Magic Missle doesn't? It well... doesn't make any sense.

Not only does it break the internal logic of the rules, it's also very unintuitive, which I'd say is the bigger crime *especially for new players.* I can get with the decision to have illogical rules for balance purposes, but I can't get behind a rule that I'm going to have to explain 4-6 times to new players. ("Oh your gun can't interrupt 98% of their spells/spellcasting. Only your knife can. Because... reasons. Except for that 2% of the time where it can. Because it's takes longer than 1 round. Wait, let me reword that, let's start over...")

If they wanted to buff melee, this was not the way to do it. If they wanted to buff spellcasting, well, that's not something they should be doing. The nerfing of spellcasters, namely removing all tier 1/2 full casters is the singular best contribution of Starfinder for balance purposes.

If the spellcasters can't cast because someone is shooting at them, boo-hoo. Maybe they should reposition, throw an angled battlefield control spell outside of that combatant's vision, rely on their allies (to throw smoke / disarm-kill-blind enemies), cast more defensive spells like Mirror Image, shoot their gun instead, or just risk taking the hit.

Like many things in 3.0->3.5->PF->SF or from 3.0 to many fantasy heartbeakers, this is an example of an attempt at a upgrade at the rules, which ends up being a "sidegrade"/horizontal improvement at most, and a downgrade at worst. A simple concentration check was more elegant. Maybe they shoulda just kept concentration checks but removed the scaling damage DC part.

And again, the problems are not even limited to just spellcasting; "Don't move, bad guy!" followed by the bad guy moving and then shooting him dead before he gets to the alarm / door lock / pushes a button / etc. is a classic trope that is actually impossible under a strict interpretation of the ready action rules.

Just saw the interpretation based on the Owen quote that you can't ready an attack to interrupt a standard action cast of a spell. I can see how one can have that idea.

It clearly goes against the spellcasting section, however.

I think this is another example of the book being rushed and thus huge lack of clarification.

Honestly that whole line "If the readied
action is not a purely defensive action, such as shooting a foe if
he shoots at you, it takes place immediately after the triggering
event" is ridiculous and I wouldn't be surprised if it gets errata'd out.

It goes against the very dramatic nature of RPGs themselves. Like saying "I try to shoot the bad guy if tries to flip that switch or he hits the big red button" --- apparently he *ALWAYS* pushes the big red button first? It's also a huuuge buff to spellcasters. I'll be recommending to the DM we mostly ignore that entire line of text and use common sense where applicable (i.e. things like Total Defense apply before an action while things like shooting a spellcaster apply 'during' the action and thus can interrupt)

For cases where it's more ambiguous like a bad guy with his hand over a big red button, I guess I'd recommend a homebrew solution such as an Initiative, Reflex, or Dexterity check to see who gets their action off first.

Probably just a combination of miscommunication between the writers and a rushed out book. I'm sure if they had another 2 months the rules would be less disjointed and more consistent (i.e. either no land speed boosts boost granted climb speed, or they all do, instead of this unintuitive in-between)

Character Level | Class Level

1 Any Class 1
2 Soldier 1

Soldier 1 grants Longarm, Heavy Weapon, Heavy Armor Prof and strong choices in its fighting styles (Blitz = Fleet + Improved Initiative, Sharpshoot = insanely useful in Firefly close quarters shooting games). It also gives some underwhelming class skills (it's baffling why Soldiers get Engineering instead of Perception). Make sure to pick up Versatile Specialization at character lvl 5.

You may feel a bit weak at lvl 3 and/or 4 due to having to wait for lvl 5 for versatile specialization

-------

1 Fluff Class 1
2 Soldier 1
3 Soldier 2
4 Soldier 3
5 (Soldier 2-3 becomes Fluff Class 2-4 via Mneumonic Enhancer)

or

1 Soldier 1
2 Soldier 2
3 Soldier 3
4 (Soldier 2-3 becomes Fluff Class 1-3 via Mneumonic Editor)

Everyone likes feats! Soldier 2 gives a lot of them. Soldier 3 gives Weapon Spec w/ everything.

Mneumonic Editor is the trick to not falling behind on weapon damage. Basically it lets you only feel 'weak' for 1 level rather than 2. Use it when you're about to become Character Lvl 4 or 5, basically right before you level up.

------

1 Technomancer 1
2 Mystic 1 (Star Shaman)

The newly buffed Magic Missle is a strong auto-hit spell that only really starts to fall behind starting at around level 5. For those wanting spell power right away, this combo harkens to the classic Wizard 1 / Sorcerer 1 of Pathfinder and D&D. You'll have access to 7 Magic Missles + 1/day Healing Touch and the utility spells of your choice. Perception as a class skill is always great, too. This shines in slow-paced exp-trickle campaigns or campaigns you think will run short. If the game runs longer than expected, use Mneumonic Editor when you're about to turn character lvl 4.

They're pretty much the only MAD class and they suffer the most from the new, simplified ability score system. Non-scaling point buy means MAD classes get screwed and SAD classes just max the 1-2 strongest attributes (usually Dex and Main Stat, bonus points if Dex *is* your main stat)

Apparently there was a scaling point buy, which I will call 'Modified Classic,' but there wasn't enough time to include it since the game was clearly rushed. I bet it will be in a supplement.

As pointed out, MAD classes suffer much less in later levels (by say, 10) because of the weird new progression. However, probably like 80-90% of all RPGs are played in levels 1-10 (and their equivalents) rather than 11-20, so Solarians only catch up in more veteran campaigns.

I could see Stealth not being a class skill, but Perception not being a class skill doesn't make sense to me.

I'm making a Goblin Technomancer w/ a minor emphasis on speed so I'm all about this life. Dipping Soldier 1 for Blitz +10 speed but then realized I shoulda just gone operative, but at this point I'm already committed to being a Technomancer (via his Universal Theory of Shiny Things)

Versatile Movement is far more feat/resource efficient, but technically inferior to Swimming and Climbing Master, if one has the feats to spare. This is because AFAIK Climbing and Swimming Master don't have the line about Quick Movement not affecting the climb/swim speed.

Jet Dash could be useful and is a 'must' for the build IMO, thematically. Run speeds are admittedly less important on most-grid based combat so it's not a priority though if you're optimizing. I am having my gobbo start weaponless and armorless then trying to thefthobo the first antagonist he spots. No one will be able to outrun him. :3

6 levels in Operative can cost you quite a bit but can be traded in for Solarian to have the option of running up surfaces instead of double-move which I think(?) is the hard limit for climbing. I wouldn't do this trade but it's just a thought for a variant on the theme.

All in all, Starfinder allows for some pretty cool "speed-freak" builds. Jet Dash Blitz Goblin Operative w/ speed enhancements I think moves 135(?) land speed, or 810 feet every 6 seconds run speed, which I believe translates to roughly 90 miles per hour. At 0-90mph in 6 seconds, I recommend calling your character Dominic 'Flashbits' Spacerretto

Magic Missle is the real level 1 power spell. Longer range. Higher average damage after modifying for Energy-AC 11 even if you have STR 18. Auto-hit (more reliable). Less overkill potential (missles can be split). Not forced to take STR (fairly weak Stat unless you're going melee-Technomancer)

I could see Jolting Surge being a good backup spell for Spell Grenades, but grenades are fairly costly so you'll probably be putting level 2 spells in them.

Wanted to chime in and say that this looks pretty cool, keep up the good work!

Necroing because I had the exact same question!

What are people's thoughts on this?

If you're the "Grappler" you never have a chance to cast a spell, since you've likely already used your Standard Action.

Assume that quickened spells, Greater Grapple, Rapid Grappler, or other such things are in play.

If You Are Grappled

If you are grappled, you can attempt to break the grapple as a standard action by making a combat maneuver check (DC equal to your opponent's CMD; this does not provoke an attack of opportunity) or Escape Artist check (with a DC equal to your opponent's CMD). If you succeed, you break the grapple and can act normally. Alternatively, if you succeed, you can become the grappler, grappling the other creature (meaning that the other creature cannot freely release the grapple without making a combat maneuver check, while you can). Instead of attempting to break or reverse the grapple, you can take any action that doesn’t require two hands to perform, such as cast a spell or make an attack or full attack with a light or one-handed weapon against any creature within your reach, including the creature that is grappling you. See the grappled condition for additional details. If you are pinned, your actions are very limited. See the pinned condition in Conditions for additional details.

In a grapple, both parties involved gain the grappled condition. Yet, it's often referenced, as in the case of the quote above, that there's a grappler (the one currently winning the grapple) and implied that there's the grappled (the one currently losing the grapple).

Casting a spell while you have the grappled or pinned condition is difficult and requires a concentration check (DC 10 + the grappler’s CMB + the level of the spell you’re casting). Pinned creatures can only cast spells that do not have somatic components.

When in a grapple, are both parties considered the "grappler" for purposes of the above quote?

If I am involved in a grapple, win the grapple, and attempt to cast a spell, do I add the losing party's CMB even though I am the grappler?

Something that hasn't really been mentioned is that Step Up is an immediate action, and as a Swashbuckler you're already fairly starved for swift actions.

AFAIK RAW you can.

If I get your idea right:

level 4:
retrain the feat you selected at level 3 into expanded arcana

then

retrain the lower level expanded arcana to another feat.

It is right?

Costly but feasible.

Yep, this is what I meant.

Say you had Improved Initiative at Level 3. Now, at Level 4, you retrain to Expanded Arcana to have access to a 2nd-level spell.

And then later, at level 6, you retrain again, to have access to a 3rd-level spell, losing a 2nd-level spell known.

Hello,

I'm playing a Crossblooded Sorcerer with 0 Spells Known (of his highest spell level) at even levels. Can I retrain an odd-level feat at a new even level into Expanded Arcana to increase 0 Spells Known to 1?

Also, it it possible to retrain Additional Traits every so often into itself? An example would be: retrain Magical Lineage (3-level spell) into Magical Lineage (4-level spell).

Blueluck wrote:

I'll answer your question with two of my own.

1) In real life, how many times have you had a conflict with someone? (Social, moral, financial, etc.)
2) In real life, how many times have you resorted to deadly force to resolve a conflict?

I hope your answers are similar to mine:
1) many times
2) almost never

How many times have you taken a weapon and killed multiple sentient features, then looted their remains as a way to make a living?

How many times has your town been raided by orcs, and had townspeople dragged away to slavery or worse?

I'm willing to bet your answer to both of those is never, but your character would probably answer differently. Their world is a bit different than ours, certainly much more violent.

I wanted to echo this sentiment. Regarding in-character actions comparisons between the real world don't apply as much.

Blueluck mentions police officers and how they rarely kill a suspect, or how he himself has rarely resorted to force... But this is a setting and game system where Good can kill Evil and it can be a Good action, even though I think we can all agree that killing on a fundamental level is absolutely wrong.

In most fantasy settings, especially those played at low levels, low-magic, and weak-empire settings... Murder itself has less consequences. There are no fingerprints. There is no 'social security' or anything tying you down to a region or nation. You can kill someone in one part of the world and even if someone sees you, if you escape far away, you'll likely get away. Even something as simple as sketch artists are less common. The concept of Might Makes Right is more prevalent, I'd say, in the generic dark ages / middle ages type of D&D game.

And that's just dealing with commoners... I'd like to think that adventurers and wanderers see much more of death and are even more aware of the Might Makes Right trope. I'd like to think that neutral evil can get away with a lot more things in these setting than in real life, where it's so hard to get away with things, police (town guard) response time is much faster due to vehicles and cell phones, etc.

What I'm trying to get at is that from an IC-perspective, these characters' minds (regardless of alignment) would be much more open to violence, lethal or otherwise. It's a bigger part of their world since simply put, they are less civilized.

---

As for whether PvP should be allowed or not, I believe this should be discussed with a group before a scenario or campaign begins. Players should at least briefly talk with their DM and they should form a social contract of sorts, where they at least have an idea of a game's expectations.

If a player harms/restraints/kills another player's character and animosity is formed, something went wrong. Either the players didn't know what they were getting into(DM's fault), they weren't as mature as they thought, etc.. I think it should be addressed by a GM. We're all just trying to have fun here.

I personally only like to play with players who are open to pretty much anything that can be justified In-character, and who can be mature about it.