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I know there is a very detailed interactive guide to talismans which would help you find the right ones for your build. I think the best way to find it is to ask on r/Pathfinder2e - the author will likely see it easily as he is one of the mods.


While I'd prefer it if repeating weapons (i.e. any weapon with more than one shot per reload) could be made balanced against single-shot weapons, I'll understand if they have to be made advanced. Say the extra weight makes them harder to handle or something. Honestly though, if capacity was low (maybe 4 shots max) and reload times were harsh, I could see myself only firing one shot a round anyway. Toss in a 1/20 misfire chance on every attack roll for repeating weapons only, and I'd be umming and erring over which I'd choose.


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Ascalaphus wrote:
But the ways don't really do a lot mechanically for you socially.

No, I mean I think if they make something called a Drifter, it should be an archetype like Celebrity and not related to Gunslinger at all. The narrative archetype of the Drifter or Stranger is much more than someone who fights a particular way. To me it is someone who flies below the radar really easily, often underestimated, doesn't have their reputation stick, and is tight lipped when they want to be. It's an archetype that is commonly seen in westerns, but can and does work in other genres too.


Yeah, but also for neatness maybe it should be printed "1d6+1" in the table so people don't miss it if they don't read the trait.

As for increasing the die size, sure but that doesn't solve swinginess. During a quick playtest game I rolled a crit and still managed to do negligible damage, and it felt pretty damn bad. The exact same thing could happen with a crossbow, but that could be a way of differentiating guns and crossbows.


Here's a pitch for y'all to shoot down. What if (all or just some) guns had 1dx+1 damage instead of just 1dx, becoming 2dx+2 with a striking rune and so on. Comparable to a Propulsive, gives a higher minimum and maximum as well as reducing swinginess, and makes Firearm Ace feel less necessary. Obviously the rest of the traits should be adjusted accordingly, but yeah.

I'll also say I don't think higher tech guns should be advanced weapons - unless they're full-automatics. They're not really harder to use (especially if they have rifling), and there's a perfectly good Rare trait to make them less accessible. Also, regarding the Capacity trait, it should also be stated what would happen if someone only wants to partially load it.


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I'm gonna also throw my vote behind Deadeye.

Related topic, I kinda don't like the name Way - it sounds very spiritual, something I'd expect out of a monk or divine class. Also, I feel like Drifter as a concept has potential as a social archetype, kind of like the opposite of Celebrity, so maybe using it here is a bit of a waste when the concept applies... loosely at best. I can't think of many drifter-type characters in fiction who use a melee weapon and a gun, and I wouldn't think of them as a drifter because of them doing that.


Yeah, I can't find anything like that either.

At least it works fine if you just ignore the ancestry component, even if it is a little bit... idk inelegant? I suppose it is worth making sure new players don't make a bad-feeling character because they didn't put at least +3 in their key ability, and there is still some room for customisation. Maybe it's just because I really love the way it works in the core game.

As for why it happened, my guess is human wasn't always going to have two free boosts, at least when those backgrounds were written. Still, unfortunate.


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The Backgrounds in question are Acolyte, Criminal and Scholar because they have caveats that apply to ancestries, which means they don't apply to humans. Thus, we have a +1 from being Human, +1 from being a scholar, and +3 from being a wizard for a total of +5.

As for the Toughness bonus that Elf suggested, it doesn't work because all classes can take Toughness as a level 3 general feat. That would mean a character could take it twice.


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I noticed a few oddities when I was going through the PF2 Beginner Box, and I can't tell if they were conscious decisions or mistakes. They're mostly where the beginner box deviates from the core rules, which is unexpected since it is supposed to be compatible with the full game.

1. Battle Medicine is listed as a reaction, which I assume is just a formatting mistake.

2. Because of the way the ability modifiers are generated in the BB, it seems human clerics, rogues, and wizards can start with a +5 or score of 20 at level 1 by taking certain backgrounds. I can't see if there is a rule I've missed or not, but if so it might be a little too well hidden.

3. I can't figure out how to recreate the all options that are in the heritage options for human. They might be using unreleased material or created for the beginner box (there are magic items and I am pretty sure monsters created for the beginner box after all, so it isn't out of the question) but yeah.

I suppose that last one does raise the question of whether some of the things created for the beginner box will see release in the full game, which would be pretty cool.

Also, while I'm here, there is some really good art in the box for both characters and monsters that isn't found anywhere else, but unfortunately the token PDFs are pretty low resolution. Is it possible for the full sized art to be made available?

All in all, a great product. Can't wait to run some new players through it!


I'm a little confused about the ability score generation used in the beginner box, in that it seems to be possible to get a +5 or effective score of 20 in an ability at first level if you are either a Human Acolyte Cleric, Human Criminal Rogue, or Human Scholar Wizard. I'm not sure if I just haven't seen where it says you cannot do that, but yeah.


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The lizardfolk rogue in Oblivion Oath used two weapons, but I'm happy to explain any questions you have if that is easier.


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Themetricsystem wrote:

Holy cow, that was FAST.

After doing a full read of the second round and a overview of your list it seems like you did a great job filtering it out but I just wanted to chime in to say great work.

Thanks. Never under estimate someone really wanting to procrastinate.


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So the new round of errata for the PF2 CRB is out, but unfortunately they kind of put it in a mixing bowl with the first round of errata and it's a bit hard to tell which is which. Given how much there is, that kind of makes things difficult, so I decided to sort through the new and the old and make a list.

I want to really, really apologise for posting what is 12 A4 pages worth of text, so hopefully the spoiler formatting helps.

Odds are I've accidentally included or excluded something I shouldn't have, or someone else has already done this and I couldn't find it, or it won't matter because Paizo will do it themselves in a few hours. Nevertheless:

Errata:

· Page 52 and 59: Halfling and Orc Weapon Familiarity has the wrong language for how to treat weapons with the halfling or orc trait; all ancestries with Weapon Familiarity should only treat the weapons as a different category for the purpose of determining proficiency. Change the final sentence to "For the purpose of determining your proficiency, martial halfling/orc weapons are simple weapons and advanced halfling/orc weapons are martial weapons."

· Page 85: In the barbarian's greater juggernaut class feature, change the last sentence to read “When you roll a failure on a Fortitude save against an effect that deals damage, you halve the damage you take.” This removes confusion about how to handle critical failures on saves against damaging effects.

· Page 103: Remove the Requirement in the bard's Effortless Concentration to match all the other Effortless Concentration feats.

· Page 112: Add tenets of good to the Prerequisites of Smite Evil. We accidentally omitted it.

· Page 113: Blade of Justice should not be limited to paladins only. Remove the paladin prerequisite from Blade of Justice, and the last sentence becomes "Whether or not the target is evil, you can convert all the physical damage from the attack into good damage, and if you are a paladin, the Strike applies all effects that normally apply on a Retributive Strike (such as divine smite)."

· Page 121: Deadly Simplicity had a benefit for unarmed attack favored weapons, but such clerics did not actually qualify. Change the prerequisites to add unarmed attacks.

· Several classes were accidentally missing an important limitation for 10th level spells. In the following class features, add “You can’t use this spell slot for abilities that let you cast spells without expending spell slots or that give you more spell slots.”

Page 121: Miraculous Spell

Page 133: Primal Hierophant

Page 207: Archwizard's Spellcraft

· Page 125: Emblazon Antimagic has the wrong counteract level. Change it to "your counteract level is equal to half your level, rounded up"

· Page 129: Druid mistakenly was trained in a class DC, when it shouldn't have a class DC. Remove it.

· Page 138: In Plant Shape, the level of the plant form spell if you don't have Wild Shape wasn't clear. It should say it's " heightened to the same level as your highest druid spell slot"

· Page 139: Hierophant's Power wasn't supposed to have the prerequisite of legendary in Nature; it's a holdover from the playtest. Remove the prerequisite.

· Page 145: The adjustment to the Aid reaction after the playtest caused Assisting Shot not to do anything. Replace it with this version.

Assisting Shot [one-action] Feat 2

Fighter, Press

Requirements You are wielding a ranged weapon.

With a quick shot, you interfere with a foe in combat. Make a Strike with a ranged weapon. If the strike hits, the next creature other than you to attack the same target before the start of your next turn gains a +1 circumstance bonus on their roll, or a +2 circumstance bonus if your Strike was a critical hit.

· Page 152: Determination has the wrong counteract level. Change it to "your counteract level is equal to half your level, rounded up"

· Page 163: Sleeper Hold shouldn't have the attack trait, meaning it doesn't apply or increase your multiple attack penalty.

· Page 165: Master of Many Styles lists "Your turn begins" as a requirement, but it should be a trigger. Change it to a trigger.

· Page 177: In order to make it completely clear how the Manifold Edge feat works, change the second sentence to read "When you use Hunt Prey, you can gain a hunter’s edge benefit other than the one you selected at 1st level." With the previous wording, a few people thought you gained both benefits, rather than a substitution.

· Page 188: Blank Slate, like a few other entries, was still erroneously running on a level 1 to 20 scale for counteract levels. Replace "counteract level of 20" with "counteract level of 10."

· 189: Dispelling Slice should use the default counteract level of "half your level (rounded up)", in the final sentence.

· Page 205: In Drain Bonded Item, remove the unnecessary Requirement of "Your turn begins."

· Page 217: Familiars' level wasn't explicit. Add "A familiar has the same level you do." The description of familiars didn't define any Strikes but also wasn't explicit that they couldn't make them. Add "It can't make Strikes" to the beginning of the third sentence.

· Page 233: Clarifying the general rule on repeated skill training that gives you a replacement skill, add at the end of the second paragraph "though if the skill is a Lore skill, the new skill must also be a Lore skill"

· Page 242: In Grapple, the restrained condition doesn't technically also make a creature grabbed, so to make it clear, in the requirements of the action and at the end of the first paragraph about not needing a hand if you're already grabbing someone, change "grabbed" to "grabbed or restrained"

· 248: To reflect the clarification on healer's tools allowing you to draw them as part of the action if you're wearing them, change the Requirements to "You are holding healer's tools, or you are wearing them and have a hand free"

· Page 249: Add "Drop Prone" to the list of basic commands you can tell your animal friend to lie down.

· Page 259: Bonded Animal didn't explain the logistics of bonding the animal directly, leading a small number of people to be unsure that it was necessary to locate and interact with the animal to bond with it. To make it explicit, change the second sentence to "You can spend 7 days of downtime regularly interacting with a normal animal (…) that is friendly or helpful to you."

· Page 260: The Cloud Jump feat referred to exceeding a "limit" without spelling out exactly which limit. It's supposed to be the limit of not being able to Leap farther than your Speed. To make it clear, change the second paragraph to read "You can jump a distance greater than your Speed by spending additional actions when you Long Jump or High Jump. For each additional action spent, add your Speed to the limit on how far you can Leap."

· Page 260: The Connections feat requires a great deal of improvisation and adjudication on the part of a GM, more in line with an option that has uncommon rarity due to the narrative load. Because of this, change the feat's rarity to uncommon.

· Page 260: Dubious Knowledge's effect should only happen on a failure, not a critical failure. Change the effect to explicitly state it doesn't occur on a critical failure.

· Page 268: Because the word "action" could have broad or narrow scopes, it wasn't clear exactly when you could use the Unified Theory feat to substitute Arcana for the other magical skills. Change the beginning of the second sentence to "Whenever you use a skill action or a skill feat" to make it clear you can use it with skill actions (such as the ones in Chapter 4) and skill feat, but not for other actions, such as when casting spells or rituals.

· Held, Worn, and Stowed Items

Page 271: We've simplified the way we're handling characters carrying their gear so that you can define all your carried items in one of three categories. Replace the carrying and using items section with this text: "A character carries items in three ways: held, worn, and stowed. Held items are in your hands; a character typically has two hands, allowing them to hold an item in each hand or a single two-handed item using both hands. Worn items are tucked into pockets, belt pouches, bandoliers, weapon sheaths, and so forth, and they can be retrieved and returned relatively quickly. Stowed items are in a backpack or a similar container, and they are more difficult to access. Drawing a worn item or changing how you’re carrying an item usually requires you to use an Interact action (though to drop an item, you use the Release action instead). Table 6–2: Changing Equipment on page 273 lists some ways that you might change the items you’re holding or carrying, and the number of hands you need to do so. Many ways of using items require you to spend multiple actions. For example, drinking a potion worn at your belt requires using an Interact action to draw it and then using a second action to drink it as described in its Activate entry (page 532)."

This change also removes several sorts of "container" items from the tables on 286-292, as they are no longer tracked separately from the items they store. These are: bandolier, belt pouch, satchel, scroll case, sheath, vial

Page 287 adds a paragraph on Wearing Tools: "You can make a set of tools (such as alchemist’s tools or healer’s tools) easier to use by wearing it. This allows you to draw and replace the tools as part of the action that uses them. You can wear up to 2 Bulk of tools in this manner; tools beyond this limit must be stowed or drawn with an Interact action to use." Fine clothing reduces that limit to light Bulk worth of tools.

· Page 278: In critical hits, "When you make an attack and roll a natural 20...or if the result of your attack exceeds the target's AC by 10" was too broad a brush and thus slightly inaccurate for how to determine a critical hit, in an attempt to state the conditions succinctly. Replace the first section with "When you make an attack and succeed with a natural 20" so that's it's clear the natural 20 must succeed based on the total result in order to get a critical success.

· Page 283: Weapon traits.

In the definition of the Parry weapon trait, change "spend an Interact action" to "spend a single action" to make it so setting up a parry doesn't trigger Attacks of Opportunity or similar reactions.

In the definition for the unarmed weapon trait, the sentence "a fist or other grasping appendage follows the same rules as a free-hand weapon" was worded in such a way it confused a few people, who thought that meant those unarmed attacks were weapons, despite statements to the contrary on page 278. To make it clear, change that section to read "a fist or other grasping appendage generally works like a free-hand weapon"

· Page 283: In Critical Specialization Effects, it uses the generic term attack but should specifically refer to Strikes. In the first sentence, change "when you make an attack with certain weapons" to "when you make a Strike with certain weapons"

· Page 288: Change the price of the the adventurer's pack to 15 sp and the bedroll to 2 cp.

· Page 289: Due to other changes (particularly the adventurer's pack, which was in all of the kits), the Bulk and cost of all of the class kits have changed. All kits are included in full in this entry so you don't have to cross-reference two places to use them.

Alchemist Class Kit:Price 8 gp, 4 sp, 2 cp; Bulk 3 Bulk, 7 light;Money Left Over 6 gp, 5 sp, 8 cpArmor studded leather armorWeapons dagger, sling with 20 sling bulletsGear adventurer’s pack, alchemist’s tools, basiccrafter’s book, 2 sets of caltropsOptions repair kit (2 gp)

Barbarian Class KitPrice 4 gp; Bulk 3 Bulk, 5 light;Money Left Over 11 gpArmor hide armorWeapons 4 javelinsGear adventurer’s pack, grappling hookOptions greataxe (2 gp), greatclub (1 gp), greatsword(2 gp), or battle axe and steel shield (3 gp)

Bard Class KitPrice 7 gp, 5 sp, 2 cp; Bulk 4 Bulk, 4 light;Money Left Over 7 gp, 4 sp, 8 cpArmor studded leather armorWeapons dagger, rapier, sling with 20 sling bulletsGear adventurer’s pack, handheldinstrument

Champion Class KitPrice 4 gp, 7 sp; Bulk 3 Bulk, 7 light;Money Left Over 10 gp, 3 spArmor hide armorWeapons dagger, 4 javelinsGear adventurer’s pack, crowbar, grappling hookOptions steel shield (2 gp), your deity’s favored weapon (see the deity entries on pages 437–441; use the Price listed in this chapter)

Cleric Class KitPrice 2 gp 2 sp; Bulk 1 Bulk, 3 light;Money Left Over 12 gp, 8 spGear adventurer’s pack, 2 sets of caltrops, religious symbol (wooden)Options your deity’s favored weapon (see the deity entries on pages 437–441; use the Price listed in this chapter), hide armor (2 gp)

Druid Class KitPrice 4 gp, 4 sp; Bulk 4 Bulk, 4 light;Money Left Over 10 gp, 6 spArmor leather armorWeapons 4 javelins, longspearGear adventurer’s pack, holly and mistletoeOptions healer’s tools (5 gp)

Fighter Class KitPrice 3 gp, 8 sp; Bulk 3 Bulk, 2 light;Money Left Over 11 gp, 2 spArmor hide armorWeapons daggerGear adventurer’s pack, grappling hookOptions greatsword (2 gp), longbow with 20 arrows(6 gp, 2 sp), or longsword and steel shield (3 gp)

Monk Class KitPrice 5 gp, 3 sp; Bulk 3 Bulk, 2 light;Money Left Over 9 gp, 7 spWeapons 10 dartsGear adventurer’s pack, climbing kit,grappling hook, lesser smokestickOptions staff (0 sp), longspear (5 sp)

Ranger Class Kit

Price 3 gp, 7 sp; Bulk 2 Bulk, 1 light;

Money Left Over 11 gp, 3 sp

Armor leather armor

Weapons dagger

Gear adventurer’s pack

Options longbow and 20 arrows (6 gp, 2 sp), longsword and steel shield (3 gp), 2 shortswords (1gp, 8 sp), snare kit (5 gp)

Rogue Class KitPrice 6 gp, 2 sp; Bulk 4 Bulk, 1 light;Money Left Over 8 gp, 8 spArmor leather armorWeapons dagger, rapierGear adventurer’s pack, climbing kitOptions thieves' tools (3 gp)

Sorcerer Class KitPrice 2 gp, 3 sp, 2 cp; Bulk 1 Bulk, 6 light;Money Left Over 12 gp, 6 sp, 8 cpWeapons dagger, sling with 20 sling bulletsGear adventurer’s pack, 2 sets of caltrops

Wizard Class Kit

Price 3 gp; Bulk 2 Bulk, 2 light;

Money Left Over 12 gp

Weapons staff

Gear adventurer’s pack, material component pouch, writing set

Options crossbow with 20 bolts (3 gp, 2 sp)

· Page 300: The text on cantrips was confusing and implied that they might use spell slots, even though they don't. Change the second to last sentence in the first paragraph to "If you're a prepared spellcaster, you can prepare a specific number of cantrips each day. You can't prepare a cantrip in a spell slot."

· Pages 316-407 and 573: Damaging spells and items meant to harm PCs do way too much damage for your gear to survive if it could be targeted, so such spells almost never are supposed to be able to damage objects. A few target lines slipped by with "creatures or objects." Remove the ability to target or damage objects from acid splash, acid arrow, eclipse burst, polar ray, sunburst, fire ray, moon beam, force bolt, and the horn of blasting. Limit hydraulic push to "creatures and unattended objects."

· Page 318 and 400: In antimagic field and storm lord, you can't exclude yourself from the emanation as you can for many other emanations, so change the area to explicitly states "which affects you."

· Page 330, 358, 377: Add the attack trait to disintegrate, polar ray, and tanglefoot.

· Page 338, 346, 379, 400: Several sustained spells are meant to provide once per turn benefits when they are sustained, not be used multiple times per turn. In flaming sphere, implosion, unfathomable song, impaling briars, and storm lord add "the first time you Sustain this Spell each round"

· Page 339: Once flesh to stone has completely petrified you, the spell ends but you still remain petrified, meaning you can't remove the effects with dispel magic or similar abilities that counteract active spells; you need stone to flesh. Change the last two sentences of the failure condition to read "When a creature is unable to act due to the slowed condition from flesh to stone, the creature is permanently non-magically petrified. The spell ends if the creature is petrified or the slowed condition is removed."

· Page 343: Even if you aren't a humanoid, you too can be a hero. In heroism, remove "humanoid" from the targets line so it just reads "1 creature"

· Page 345: Illusory disguise, a Perception check to disbelieve just happens, it isn't a free action, so change "attempt a Perception check to disbelieve the spell as a free action" to read "attempt an immediate Perception check to disbelieve the spell."

· Page 358: Polar ray left out what happened on a critical hit with your spell attack roll. It should double the damage (but not the drained value) on a critical hit.

· Page 362: Purple worm sting used to have both a spell attack roll and a Fortitude save, but in changing to only a save, some of the damage is now automatic and should be reduced. Reduce the piercing damage automatically taken from the spell to 3d6.

· Page 363: The regenerate spell had an incorrect interaction with the doomed condition that would cause a doomed character to still die while regenerating. To handle that, instead of preventing a creature from progressing to dying 3, change it to "its dying condition can't increase to a value that would kill it (this stops most creatures from going beyond dying 3)."

· Page 373: In spiritual weapon, you might not have a deity, particularly if you're an occult caster, so change it to manifest a "a club, a dagger, or your deity's favored weapon."

· Page 377: Telekinetic haul should work only on unattended objects, not objects in creatures' possessions.

· Page 377: In tangling creepers, instead of having the creepers make an unarmed attack using your spell attack modifier, change it to just say "Make a melee spell attack roll against the target."

· Page 379: In true target, the way the spell used its targets was confusing, and it wasn't clear it applied to more attacks. There are several changes to make this clear; here is the final text with changes in bold:

TRUE TARGET SPELL 7

DIVINATION FORTUNE PREDICTION

Traditions arcane, occult

Cast [one-action] verbal

Range 60 feet; Targets 4 creatures

Duration until the start of your next turn

You delve into the possible futures of the next few seconds to understand all the ways your foe might avoid harm, then cast out a vision of that future to your allies. Designate a creature. The first time each target makes an attack roll against that creature during true target’s duration, the attacker rolls twice and uses the better result. The attacker also ignores circumstance penalties to the attack roll and any flat check required due to the designated creature being concealed or hidden.

· Page 381: In visions of danger, there's no description of what the Will save does, other than the critical success allowing you to disbelieve. It should be a basic Will save against the mental damage.

· Page 385: In zealous conviction, add the emotion and mental traits.

· Page 390: In charming touch, remove "humanoid" from the target line so you can charm any kind of creature that could find you attractive.

· Page 393: In healer's blessing, boost the additional healing from the base spell from 1 to 2.

· Page 403: Angelic halo should scale based on the level of the heal spell, not based on angelic halo's level. Remove the heightened entry and instead, replace the status bonus to healing from the spell with "Allies in your halo’s emanation who are healed by a heal spell gain a status bonus to Hit Points regained equal to double the heal spell’s level."

· Page 446: Attack Rolls. There was some confusion as to whether skill checks with the attack trait (such as Grapple or Trip) are also attack rolls at the same time. They are not. To make this clear, add this sentence to the beginning of the definition of attack roll "When you use a Strike action or make a spell attack, you attempt a check called an attack roll."

· Page 452: At the end of the description of bleed damage, add "Bleed damage ends automatically if you’re healed to your full Hit Points."

· Page 453: Weaknesses like "salt" and "water" weren't fully explained. At the beginning of the second paragraph in weakness, add "If you have a weakness to something that doesn’t normally deal damage, such as water, you take damage equal to the weakness value when touched or affected by it."

· Page 453 and 634: In Nonlethal Attacks, nonlethal effects other than Strikes weren't explained directly, so at the end add "Spells and other effects with the nonlethal trait that reduce a creature to 0 Hit Points knock the creature out instead of killing them" On page 634, add the nonlethal trait "An effect with this trait is nonlethal. Damage from a nonlethal effect knocks a creature out rather than killing it."

· Page 481: Retraining. It wasn't clear how long it took to retrain spells in a spell repertoire, but it should take just 1 week. Add ". Some, like changing a spell in your spell repertoire, take a week." to retraining class features.

· Page 421: Disabling a Hazard. How to run disabling a hazard with skills other than Thievery wasn't completely clear. Add "Like using Disable a Device, using these skills to disable a trap is a 2-action activity with the same degrees of success, though the activity might have different traits determined by the GM."

· Page 535: Craft Requirements. Add text about upgrading an item from a lower-level version into a higher-level version. "The GM might allow you to Craft a permanent item from a lower-level version of the same item as an upgrade. For example, you might upgrade a bag of holding from a type I to a type II bag, but you couldn’t upgrade a clear spindle aeon stone into an orange prism aeon stone. The cost for this upgrade is the full difference in Price between the items, and the Crafting check uses a DC for the item’s new level."

· Page 537 and 583: Shadow and slick runes. Since a character can't actually use those runes unless they have a +1 armor first (a 5th level item), move the items from 3rd level to 5th level when they become usable (keeping the price from the original version, even though it's unusually low for a 5th level item).

· Page 542 and 548: The true elixir of life's price is incorrect. Change it to 8,000 gp.

· Page 544: The example in the splash trait is confusing. Replace it with this clearer version of the example "For example, if you throw a lesser acid flask and hit your target, that creature takes 1 acid damage, 1d6 persistent acid damage, and 1 acid splash damage. All other creatures within 5 feet of it take 1 acid splash damage. On a critical hit, the target takes 2 acid damage and 2d6 persistent acid damage, but the splash damage is still 1. If you miss, the target and all creatures within 5 feet take only 1 splash damage. If you critically fail, no one takes any damage."

· Page 548: To make it clearer that elixir of life only works on living creatures due to the healing trait, change the first sentence to "Elixirs of life accelerate a living creature’s natural healing processes and immune system."

· Page 549: Quicksilver mutagen's "ranged attack rolls" was meant to apply to ranged weapon attack rolls and ranged unarmed attack rolls, but it makes sense to apply to Dexterity-based melee attack rolls using finesse. Change "ranged attack rolls" to "Dexterity-based attack rolls."

· Page 551: Deathcap powder should be held in 1 hand, like other ingested poisons, not held in 2 hands.

· Page 573: In the decanter of endless water, add a usage entry of 2 hands and a Bulk entry of L.

· Page 574: Maestro's instrument should have DCs for the charm effects, DC 27 for the moderate version and DC 38 for the greater version.

· Page 587: Arrow-catching shield. This shield had a built in usage frequency based on being fairly fragile that worked in the playtest rules for shields, but switching from dents to HP, the shield became too easily destroyed and needs to offer more protection. Increase the basic shield statistics to Hardness 10, HP 60, BT 30 and add a frequency of once per minute on the activation.

· Page 588: Forge warden's durability is too low. Increase its basic shield statistics to Hardness 10, HP 40, BT 20.

· Page 594: Greater staff of necromancy has enervation, a spell that's in Advanced Player's Guide instead of this book. Replace it with a 4th level vampiric touch.

· Page 597: Wands become broken when you overcharge them and succeed at the flat check, and you need to know their statistics to Repair them. While they use the normal statistics for a thin item of their composition, it makes sense to call that out. At the end of Varying Statistics, add "A wand has the normal Hardness, BT, and HP of a thin item of its material (page 577)."

· Page 612: Healer's gloves' activation was unclear as to whether it was a healing effect. Change the activation effect to the following: "You can soothe the wounds of a willing, living, adjacent creature, restoring 2d6+7 Hit Points to that creature. This is a positive healing effect. You can’t harm undead with this healing."

· Page 620, 631, and 454: In the definition of fatigued, the intention is that it prevents the exploration tactics you take while traveling or exploring an area, but you can still stop and Refocus, Treat Wounds, and so on. Change the last sentence to "You can’t use exploration activities performed while traveling, such as those on pages 479–480."

· Page 621: The prone condition said you could Take Cover to gain cover against ranged attacks, but it should say you gain Greater Cover. When combined with still being flat-footed, it allows you to hunker down for a net of 2 more AC against ranged attacks.

· Page 621: Persistent damage sidebar. Clarifying Assisted Recovery, at the end of the first paragraph, change the last sentence to "This allows you to attempt an extra flat check immediately, but only once per round." and add the bullet point "• The action to help might require a skill check or another roll to determine its effectiveness." Remove Administer First Aid as an example of assisted recovery, as it's a separate action.

· Page 630: In curses, add "Effects with this trait can be removed only by effects that specifically target curses." This makes it clear that you need to use spells like remove curse to remove a curse, even one put in place by a spell, as opposed to dispel magic.

Pages 337, 403, 405: In feeblemind, celestial brand, and jealous hex, make it clear that they are applying a curse.

Whoops, I made a mistake and forgot to include a bunch of it:

Page 71: Alchemists should have proficiency in medium armor to make things easier for mutagenists who pursue higher Strength and lower Dexterity. Add training in medium armor to their initial proficiencies as well as to their 13th and 19th level armor expertise and mastery class features.

Page 72-79: Alchemist DC scaling is highly dependent on the feat Powerful Alchemy, so we decided to make it an automatic class feature instead to free up more feats. Add powerful alchemy to the class features at 5th level, and remove it from the list of alchemist class feats.

Page 73: Alchemists at low levels don't have enough reagents to make more than a very small number of items, whereas at higher levels they can make significantly more. To help make those reagents last longer at 1st through 4th levels, add a limited version of the Field Discovery class feature at 1st level. "Your research field adds a number of formulas to your formula book; these are your signature items. When using a batch of infused reagents to create your signature items using advanced alchemy, you create three items instead of two. Each time you gain a level, you can swap one of your signature items with another formula in your formula book. This new signature item must be on your research field’s list of possible signature items."

Page 75: Alchemical Alacrity lets you make three alchemical items, but you can't hold all three, so it's unclear what happens to the third one. Add to the end "and you automatically stow one of these new items as you create them."

Page 75: In perpetual infusions, "bullheaded mutagen" should say "serene mutagen."

Page 89: Raging Athlete. The wording has been adjusted to prevent unintended interactions with other abilities while keeping the same benefits. Change the text to "Physical obstacles can’t hold back your fury. While you are raging, you gain a climb Speed and swim Speed equal to your land Speed and the DC of High Jumps and Long Jumps decreases by 10. Your distance for a vertical Leap increases to 5 feet vertically, and your distance for a horizontal Leap increases to 15 feet if your Speed is at least 15 feet and to 20 feet if your Speed is at least 30 feet."

Page 91: Sudden Leap is missing the two-action icon from the fighter version, leaving the action cost unstated. Add in the two action icon.

Pages 99-103: Various bard feats shouldn't have the "focus pool" prerequisite. If you somehow take them without a focus pool (typically via multiclassing), you gain a focus pool, as normal for taking your first feat that grants a focus spell.

Pages 102, 201, 211: In Quickened Casting, change the restriction to "If your next action is to cast a <Classname> cantrip or a spell that is at least 2 levels lower than the highest-level <Classname> spell slot you have" inserting bard, sorcerer, or wizard as appropriate. This wording change makes it clear how to handle situations where you have a cantrip or focus spell at a different spell level than your highest spell slot.

Class Chapter (all spellcasting classes): Change the definition of cantrips to say "A cantrip is automatically heightened to half your level rounded up, which equals the highest-level of <Classname> spell slot you have." filling in the appropriate class name. This removes the ambiguities around the cantrip level of a non-spellcaster vs a multiclass spellcaster.

Pages 222-231: In the multiclass spellcaster Breadth feats, change "for each spell level other than your two highest spell levels" to "for each spell level other than your two highest <Classname> spell slots." inserting the appropriate class. This makes it clear what to do if you are a spellcaster multiclassing in another spellcasting class (or potentially multiclassing in multiple spellcasting classes).

Page 634: Add the olfactory trait from the Bestiary to the Glossary and Index "An olfactory effect can affect only creatures that can smell it. This applies only to olfactory parts of the effect, as determined by the GM."

Page 637: In the definition of the summoned trait, add this section to deal with summoned creatures creating more creatures without using summoning "A summoned creature can't control any spawn or other creatures generated from it, and such creatures return to their unaltered state (usually a corpse in the case of spawn) once the summoned creature is gone. If it's unclear what this state would be, the GM decides. "

Ah shoot I forgot Battle Medicine, that's embarrassing.

Page 258: In Battle Medicine, change the Requirements entry to “You are holding or wearing healer's tools.” Change the second sentence of the effect to “Attempt a Medicine check with the same DC as for Treat Wounds, and restore a corresponding amount of Hit Points; this does not remove the wounded condition.” This means you need to use your healer's tools for Battle Medicine, but you can draw and replace worn tools as part of the action due to the errata on wearing tools on page 287.


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Update: Copy pasting the part 1 errata into a word doc (A4 page size) takes up 22 pages. Irori save me.


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So it looks like, as is, the new round of errata is split between both the 'Pathfinder Core Rulebook Errata' and 'Pathfinder Core Rulebook Errata (Part 2)' dropdowns. Looks to me that there are things that as far as I can see were not included in the first round, such as Quicksilver Mutagen only applying to dexterity-based attack rolls now rather than ranged attack rolls.

This does make it a biiiiit hard to find out what has changed. I'll try and make a 'just the new stuff' list unless someone already has.


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Zaister wrote:
This isn't DC.

I thought you meant Washington and I was really confused.


James Jacobs wrote:
In fact, the Dominion is more or less at war with them. They don't work well together.

Well now I'm very confused. I must have been misreading a lot.

Edit: Oop, yep, I just gave another read of the wiki page and immediately noticed it said they're in conflict. Idk how I missed that. That is very fascinating.


Has anything been said about the relationship between the Alghollthu and the Dominion of the Black? I feel like since they are quite similar (at least in the loosest, aesthetic way), they'd either get along very well or, more likely, hate each other. I asked on reddit and someone suggested that because the Alghollthu see themselves as top of the pecking order, there's no way they'd submit to the Great Old Ones like the Dominion do, which makes sense. Still, I'd love to hear what you say. Thanks!


Claxon wrote:
Yes, you're essentially spending class feats to buy iconic class features but it's really the only way I can see to balance it.

I feel like there is wiggle room to have it as a class feature, you just wouldn't have room for much else. Look at what Rangers get in their high level features for example.


I wonder if, based on what you guys have said, a real simple idea might be better. Something like a generic martial progression with multiclass caster spell progression bolted on, and a feature that lets you make a strike as a free action after casting a spell with a somatic component, a bit like flurry of blows. Maybe if it is a touch spell you can use the strike's roll instead of a spell attack. Give it some good focus spells, maybe some unique focus cantrips if we want to go wild with it, and we're away.


Looking at the playtest forums, I feel like there is a lot of unhelpful conversation (and occasional hostility) that seems to be rooted in people having different internal definitions of what a magus is. Obviously you can't please everyone, but having an idea of what people might want from a class feels like a good start.

So, what does a magus need to have in order to be a magus?


I think part of the disagreement with shields is how they compare to other items. Part of the design with PF2 allows you to use the same sword and armour throughout the campaign if you so choose, making it a core part of your character's identity and allowing for 'your father's sword' type stories. That's not unanimous across all items, for better or worse, with some falling off in usefulness over time as their item bonuses are surpassed by other items or when their DCs fall too low to be useful.

Shields are definitely one of the item types where that can apply, and it can be difficult to build a character's identity around, say, a Lion Shield when in a few levels it will be a burden to use. It'd be okay if it was not always as good as a shield designed exclusively for blocking, as long as it was the same level of usefulness relative to those shields.

My pitch is (as well as magic shields being always repairable) having a higher level versions of each specific shield type and a way to upgrade items, like being able to use them as part of the material cost for the higher level version.


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Zapp, there's nothing wrong with your suggestion about making shields not shields necessarily, but I don't think people really feel like buying into it. For me, at least, it just feels like a bit of a let down, both of the cool shields and of the whole idea of holding some sort of magic ward. The issue is many players shopping for shields are probably looking to fill out a specific character concept and are let down by the shields not being good enough, and a ward wouldn't have the same aesthetic function. Likewise, I feel like many players looking to give their characters a cool ward wouldn't be satisfied with it just being a reskinned shield.

If it was the intention from the start, maybe, but it wasn't, and I don't think everyone will be satisfied with it now.


I think I understand the logic of not. At early levels, a spell slot is a significant resource that needs to be spent carefully, but as you progress it becomes less and less of a concern to spend. Assuming the heightened versions of the spell are accessible before the corresponding rune is (which would be likely as otherwise it wouldn't be very useful), then you are very likely to encounter the situation where a caster is happy to blow all their spell slots on giving the party significantly damaging weapons because they still have plenty of spell slots to spare, making the party do way more damage than the game expects.


I'm not going to say I know what the solution is, but I am pretty confident part of it would involve making magic (and probably precious material) shields repairable even when destroyed. Maybe it takes an hour instead of ten minutes, idk. As it stands, they're the only permanent item in constant jeopardy of being destroyed despite costing as much as other permanent magic items. It would put them on a similar playing field as wands.

As for sturdy runes, if they cost as much as sturdy shields already do then that PC would be double dipping into their wealth in order to get what they wanted, and I think that's fair.


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I'll also explain the move away from skill points, because it's something that I miss but understand the changes to. The idea with making proficiency apply to skills makes the whole math of the game consistent, with no subsystem working differently than anything else and needing its own logic to understand. It means the GM can figure out what the DC of something should be using the tables provided, regardless of whether it was something the designers thought of or not.

It also mirrors what most players do anyway. Despite what I assume the 3.5 folks intended, the right answer in PF1 was always to pick a few that you always put your points into every level, without thinking. A +5 to something is hardly better than nothing when you're a high level and the DCs are huge, so you might as well sit on your niche from the beginning.
Proficiency basically mirrors that. By late game, you'll have a good number of skills you're entirely capable in, and a few that you've specialised in to the point of being near-unbeatable.

Sure, it feels less granular, and I do miss the feeling of putting points in a skill like I did in 3.5, but you don't really think about that when you're actually playing. The new system's impact on flexibility in actual play is basically non-existent and helps to make the game functional as hell.


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First of all, welcome to second edition.

I'll do my best to answer your questions one by one but I'm probably going to go in circles a bit.

1. Yep, proficiency is like that, and skills also get proficiency rather than ranks/points (I am assuming you're coming from pf1 or 3.5 or some other similar RPG because you use the term points). The 'Prof' box is where you write your proficiency bonus (level + 2, 4, 6, or 8) so you can add up the whole line.

2. You don't really put points in anything. You don't get points every level, instead everything you're proficient in increases by 1. Which leads into...

3. Yeah, every other level you can increase your proficiency one of your skills. You can pick an untrained skill and make it trained or you can increase something you're already trained (or expert or master) in up a step. Yes, this does mean becoming trained in a skill while you're, say, level 13 means you suddenly get a +15 to that skill. You become just as good in it as a skill you became trained in at level 1.

4. You add +2 to your key ability score at level 1. It also means your Class DC uses that ability score, but that is more important for martials to know since casters rarely use it.

5. The 'Special' is the thing your Ancestry gives you at the bottom of the sidebar. Darkvision for a Dwarf, Keen Eyes for a Halfling, etc. Humans get nothing but they make up for it elsewhere.

6. You have slots for Feats and you get to pick them as you want. Features, on the other hand, are given to you don't have (as much) choice in them. For a cleric, Divine Font is a feature and Healing Hands is a feat.

7. Your ancestry will tell you how many languages you get (note the errata corrects how many humans should get), which is influenced by your Intelligence. There is no feat that gives you extra languages when you increase it, but you can learn additional languages by taking the Multilingual skill feat (which is a Society skill feat).

8. I'd try the Pathfinder Wiki.

Hope this helped. I'm happy to explain anything in more detail if you need.


Looks like we already are, so go nuts


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Exocist wrote:

That's without even getting to things that function but shouldn't exist. The following feats should really be straight up removed from the class:

- Quick Bomber - Should be a level 1 feature
- Calculated Splash - Should be a class feature
- Expanded Splash - The damage portion should be a class feature, the radius enhancer should be a level 1 feat that is optional to use.
- Powerful Alchemy & Potent Poisoner - Your created items should just use your class DC.
- Enduring Alchemy - Quick Alchemy should just do this by default. Change this feat so it makes Quick Alchemy stuff last a minute.

Perhaps part of the Bomber research field, but I would like it if alchemists never had to touch bombs if they didn't want to.

As for powerful alchemy and potent poisoner, yes the former but probably not the latter, and the former should also apply to advanced alchemy. Potent Poisoner applies to poisons made during downtime, and giving permanent poisons that are more effective than others in their price range doesn't feel like a great idea to me.

I feel like alchemist, perhaps moreso than other classes, is so heavily dependent on one's internal definition of what an alchemist should be. For example, I don't like perpetual infusions? I just don't like the idea of infinite alchemical items, on a verisimilitude level and on a conceptual level. Even my concept of a bomber alchemist doesn't only throw bombs. I was talking on the discord about it, and the way I described it was like a Starfinder mechanic, which does a lot of mechanicy stuff but still shoots things.


Staffan Johansson wrote:
Both PF1 and 5e (with the Artificer) took another approach: alchemy is spells, but re-skinned.

I wish I could accept that, but this is absolutely my pet peeve. It feels like a cop out to me, and sure it works but I mean at that same thing could be applied to fighter and champion - flavour-wise, you're punishing those who stand against you, but mechanically you're doing an attack of opportunity.

I'm not saying you're wrong for suggesting it, I mean we're talking about a game, there is no right answer, but if this is what they ran with I would have been really unsatisfied. I'm also hesitant to get behind anything that makes things work the same as another class - see 4e's variety of 'X Word' abilities: healing word, inspiring word, majestic word, all of which function the same as each other but are 'unique' to different classes.


I hear you, especially the point about albatrosses. Powerful Alchemy stands out as one (which I feel also should apply to advanced alchemy, but definitely not all alchemy). Some others... maybe. Calculated Splash and Sticky Bomb kind of remind me of cleric feats that modify divine font, like Cremate Undead - the difference is the alchemist ones are just really really powerful, frankly Sticky Bomb busts my whole idea of just giving them the same proficiency/specialisation track as other martials. I can't really see any other really overt math fixers, going over the list besides the level one few, but I might just be missing them.

As for early levels, during the brief time I was playing with an alchemist (which lasted until about level 3) I did see them run out of bombs really quickly to the point where they were the one to call for a rest... basically every time. Here's where it comes to a matter of expectations though, because when you say they turn into commoners, I'm fine with that. I'd rather that than cantrip bombs to be honest, let alchemy be a special sometimes food for a while until you become a true expert of the art, accenting the abilities of an above-average person. Not everyone agrees, though, and even if they did the issue is yeah, bombs don't really have that much oomph unless the target has a weakness and/or you hit with splash.


I'm kind of a pariah when it comes to the alchemist (to the point where I worry I'm being a blind defender). I will say I do hear people's complaints and even all of my defences have a pretty big 'however' next to them
I don't mind the fact that they have int as their key ability score; It's on theme, I don't think they should be as good at fighting as other classes, and bombs do splash damage, so they have pretty reliable damage output despite not hitting as much. However, that does put alchemists in a position of needing to use bombs and (while I don't really like them being as good with a crossbow as a featless ranger) the fact they cap at expert might be too much. Missing feels bad, and it's easy to see splash as pity points rather than guaranteed return on investment. I also find splash damage really poorly phrased?
I don't really have a problem with the abilities they need for bombs being feats, because giving too many bomb related class features would make the class appear too bomb focused. However... see above.
I also don't mind them not having as many reagents at early levels, I think using a sling is fine. However, see above.

Beyond that I think the class is really calling out for more content, which is fine because that's the reality of publishing. I wonder how they'll look after the APG is out. I feel like they might not have been built with the intent of being full martials, but they're kind of forced into that role by the options they have available right now.
I also find it wild that casters require a skill check to learn spells but alchemists don't. You need to make a check to write out a formula, but not to copy it into your book. Idk it's just really odd.


pauljathome wrote:
1d6 Fall Damage wrote:
I've been watching this thread for quite a while and while I personally am happy with where casters are right now, I do hear the issues people have and honestly? I see a niche for a class like kineticist.
The difficulty would be to keep this balanced with the archer while still making it feel different

You know, I was discussing this idea on discord and someone said the same thing, almost the same wording. You're correct, but my theory is if they can make Zen Archer balanced and feel different in the APG, then making this feel different should be possible as well. If they can do it with other martials, I don't see why not here.


I've been watching this thread for quite a while and while I personally am happy with where casters are right now, I do hear the issues people have and honestly? I see a niche for a class like kineticist. The class as a whole could follow a design path like Monk, being a martial with unique Strikes that compete with other martial's weapon attacks (in this case, elemental blasts), alongside a lot of utility feats and focus spells. Making blasts into strikes instead of the more obvious cantrips (or cantrips, but as a single action with the attack trait) would mean accuracy and damage output runs parallel to martials and they get to make use of the action economy as a martial would. You could even have a handwrap-like invested item that applies runes to elemental blasts.

It gets even closer to what people want if it has good multiclassing potential. You could easily play a pyromancy specialist evocation wizard by multiclassing into kineticist for the blasts.


I am curious how pantheon rules interact with spells like Divine Lance.


Great work! I really like this.

I might just offer a few suggestions as well, in addition to masda's:

- I'd use the Touch AC space for shield details

- you could probably use that "feats" box on the first page as like a general notes section for conditions, resistances, stuff like that. Maybe call it Misc Notes

- You probably don't need the AC Items section, maybe make that magic items section or extend the equipment section, or both.

- With the magic items section moved, you could use that space for additional character information (that's the one thing I really liked about 5e's sheet) or campaign notes.

I'm gonna save this link for future use. Nice going


I think I understand. Yeah cool, thanks for clarifying.


I'm having a lil trouble figuring out the Aid reaction. Or rather, I perfectly understand the reaction, but not the action you need to do in order to prepare to help. The description says you need to "attempt a skill check or attack roll" and I wonder if that means use a defined action of some kind or whether you just spend an action and roll. If the former, do the effects of that action resolve, and if the latter, does the GM just use whatever traits are logical? In most cases determining traits through logic is clean enough, but what about when I want it to be an attack roll? It's not a Strike so I don't expect it to do damage but would MAP apply to that?


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I was gonna ask this question months ago, and then I forgot about it. I'm also pretty sure I know the answer, but I figured I'd check.

Will there be 'lite' PDFs available at launch?

I notice that Starfinder doesn't seem to have them, though I suspect the basic PDF is considered optimised enough. I wouldn't be surprised if that's what we're going to get with PF2.


Quandary wrote:

+1

I could even see Poison stuff being subset of Feats for Chirurgeon,
poison being "dark" side of healing, which also covers antidotes etc.

That's what I thought too, but what little we can see dooooesn't seem to mention anything about poisons even under Chirurgeon.


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So, that info dump huh?
Some chaps on the discord are a little confused about Alchemist and alchemy around poison, basically just wanting to clear up and maybe expand upon some confusions from the playtest. Looks like poisoner as an alchemist specialisation is gone (for now) and there aren't many feats about poison (for now) but overall there were also some iffy bits with poison in the playtest, like how long it would take to apply injury poisons versus how long they lasted on your weapon or the fact that there were no hard and fast rules about being able to throw inhaled poison (the alternative being to just pop the cap with the vial in your hand). And obviously alchemist is a class that everyone will have a different vision of, so whether it is 'successful' as a class will differ from person to person, but I suppose we'd just like to know what we can expect from our favourite chemistry boys. Little bit of clarity would go far.