1Ol0's page

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Hello,

I have a few subscriptions, I'm very happy with them, but my credit card expires in February.

I tried to find where to change the expiration date, or to enter a new payment method (without buying a duplicate subscription). I played with the "edit" payment method button. I also looked under most of the links in "my account", but I wasn't able to figure it out :(

I received my new credit card, and all the information is the same, but the new expiration date is 02/2011. If you could show me where to change this info I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks for the help!


Klaus, Scapular of the Heroic Slayer is another of my favorites. I was thrown off a bit by the name (until I read the detail), just from the name I thought it was for slaying heroes, but then I realized that would be "hero slayer" not "heroic slayer". Most of what I like about it has been said already. I like the unique slot, and combo with periapt of wisdom. I like the wearer can't be made into an undead. This is a great paladin/undead fighting hero item.


Cybren, Doreen's Delightful Dressing Screen is a very imaginative item. It's rather large to take along adventuring, I guess it's more of an item you'd find in high end inns? It kind of makes it a more NPC item, or an item a character would have at home. Maybe if you used some other kind of item, that passed over/obscured the changer's body? A small item, or one that could be packed away and carried along with an adventurer easily?

How about a cloak? cover yourself, uncover, clothes changed.

Or a hoop you step through? Or a bullfighter type thing (what's that red thing called he waves at bulls?). you could use it like a stage magician, hold it up in front of you, then drop it, and be changed.

Either way, I like this item, it's a unique idea that grabbed my attention.


Clouds Without Water, The Kylix of Batrachomyomachy is one of my favorites. It would be cool if you changed it so the topic didn't have to be controversial, or currently under discussion, or heck, limited to the room you're in.

Maybe make it so you state a topic, and then two views on that topic, then drink. That way the two views would be user defined. This would require the drinker to understand the topic and the two main views.

Now that i think about it, this might change the use of the item from what you intended. The original way you could just drink from it and see the two sides, you wouldn't even need to understand the topic (or even speak the language used in the discussion?).

Also, could you use this to change someone's mind? If you see a froggy person, would they get less froggy/more mousy as you made arguments that appeal to the way they think? Maybe using this and some type of see aura/alignment spell could give a bonus on persuasion type checks?

I can imagine a crazy character drinking from this all day long, so their world remains mousy/froggy that would be funny.


Koldoon, The Spoon of the Witch Queen is neat. I like the ability where you can put a drop of something on it to help you guess what it is.

For the part where it can make three doses, but they turn back into water in 12 hours, I understand this is probably so players don't just sell the three doses everyday, or stockpile it or something. But I think it feels kind of weird story wise to have it change back into water if not used.

If you really want to limit it, maybe you could say it can't make any more doses until the three it created are used up? I don't know. Overall, I do like this item.


Thanks everyone for the comments on my item. My internet has been flaky the last few days, but I wanted to comment on a few more items before this thread goes dormant. I'm still catching up on the three pages that appeared since I got my internet back.

Daigle wrote:
I was interested in that we both had the same general physical make up to the item. :)

Weird huh? I wonder if there was some silver adorned wood chalk holder out there somewhere that seeped into our subconscious. Or maybe that's just what a magic chalk holder is supposed to look like. :)

Daigle wrote:
Thanks for directing Heathy to my item, also! I bet each one of us that made a passage item played thieves/rogues fairly often throughout our D&D 'careers'.

Hey no problem. And you guessed right on me, I usually go for the stealthy type in RPGs, thief, spy, rogue, scout, ranger, ninja... How about you Tallghost, what's your favored character type?


Jeremy Mac Donald wrote:

Well I'm mortified to find that I posted my item with a cut and past to the submission box and therefore lost the text.

I'm going to try and summarize the item from memory in order to get some feedback and of course would especially love to hear from Clark where my item fell down.

Torq of Soul Stealing
** spoiler omitted **

Looks like the internet ate my post! I'll try again...

Jeremy, I think this might be a bit too powerful. It's like an always on death knell. I know you have to get someone below 0 hp while within 60' of you, but if I'm a high level evil guy, I'd keep a whole bunch of goblins around, or heck, a pocket full of earthworms. Then whenever I need it, pow, squish like twelve earthworms.

Death knell seems like a powerful spell actually. I read it twice just to make sure. It doesn't specify what kind of creature, except living. And the part about 10 minutes per HD seems to be written to suggest a minimum of 10 minutes? maybe I'm reading it wrong? Also, I wonder does the +1 stack? It doesn't say, so I'd guess no, but who knows...

Not that it's a bad item, just really powerful, if I was an evil guy, I'd totally want one of these. And if I was a player, it would suck if the bad guy had one.


Watcher!, I read a bit of your design notes, and I laughed when you said that part about not wanting to take ability from list A and add to item on list B, someone should make that a script using the srd website. I'd give them extra cool points if the script was less than 200 words ;)

I had a few ideas about your lantern. I'm not so good with the 3.5 rules, so you'll probably not get a lot of help form me there, but I really like the concept. If I had this lantern, how big would the projection be? could it be stopped or replayed? If it was like a real lantern and the projection changed size by how close the lantern was to where the subject was locked in, that would be fun.

Also, if you had the subject locked in, would you need the subject any more? like what if I made a guard the subject, to see what he did yesterday at a slow time, then knocked the real guard out and set the lantern on the ground to project an image of him still at his post? is the image from the past three dimensional?

If you can't lock in a subject, what happens when the subject is out of the light? does the projection stay projecting at the same time from the past, but on what ever is in the light now?

Wow I really want to play with one of these.


benjover, I really like the Spoon of Dragon's Diet. it's kind of creepy too. Imagine if you were trapped in a sewer? or a mausoleum? I like the suggestion of adding some kind of vomit rules. Remember what that was before it turned into edible paste? Can you still eat it? (I know it's paste now, so it's purely psychological, but...)

Also, just curious, what do you imagine the paste tastes like? (chicken?)


Heathansson wrote:
What page is yours on, Daigle?

It's on page 13, under a spoiler button.


Patrick, on the Thurburner Stone, I like that it stays big for 24 hours, especially if it's blocking the bad guys and they're chasing me.

If you make it an oil (as suggested somewhere in this thread) you could dip your sling bullets in, then you could say it'll stay a boulder an hour for each dip or something.


Sebastian, I really like your Bountiful Sapling, that's one I want for my character. I like that you have to nurture it and stuff. If you carry it around potted it's kind of reminiscent of "the professional".

I got an idea for the sapling, what if you plant the fruit instead of eating it? There could be a chance of growing another sapling? That would be cool. An orange grower friend of mine suggests three years for the first fruits, maybe up to ten years before it's in full production (that is if magic fruit is anything like oranges).


I can't believe I read the whole thing. I know I said it before, but wow that's a lot of posts.


Wow there's a lot of items here. And to think, the judges had to review way more than the ones in this thread! I just want to say thanks to Erik, Clark, and Wolfgang. I also want to thank Paizo, your efforts allow this great community to exist.


Hey Daigle, we had pretty similar items! with chalk even.

Well here's my item. I submitted early. I think the next time I'll keep my finished idea a bit before submitting it, maybe sleep on it.

I thought of a few things I'd change. I think the price is too low. I would also make it one hour instead of 24, and I'd probably put limited uses per day on it. Maybe I'd clean up a few sentences a bit too. I used "ring gates" and "mirror of mental" prowess as guides.

------ submitted item ------
Gate Chalk

This chalk is gripped by a carved wooden handle, held fast with silver wire. A rough circle with a command word at its center is drawn on any flat surface. When a second circle is drawn, of roughly the same size and containing the same command word, the two are connected. Speaking the command word opens the gate for 24 hours. The same command word closes the gate at any time. If a gate is opened on a moveable object, it will move with the object. If the object drawn on is destroyed the gate closes. If another circle is drawn with the same command word as an existing set, it is considered the first circle of a new set. Once a gate is closed it may not be re-opened. The circles must be drawn within 100 miles of each other on the same plane of existence. Only one gate may be open at a time. Drawing a circle that fits a medium size creature is a move action. The mending spell renews the chalk after each use so it never runs out.

Faint Transmutation, Strong Conjuration; CL 17th; Craft Wondrous Item, mending, gate; Price 40,000 gp

------ submitted item ------

I thought it would make a cool espionage item. you could draw a circle on the bottom/back of a rug or wall hanging, then give it as a gift. wait a few days then, open it up and sneak through. Or you could draw a circle on the bottom of a wagon and have a non-offensive party drive it through a roadblock.

I didn't think it cheated out on traveling, cause someone has to travel the distance at least once to draw the far end.

The one thing I wasn't sure about was how would someone figure out how to use this if they didn't know what it was? oh well.


Cosmo wrote:

Unfortunately as a fundamental design of our system, an order can only have exactly one payment method.

I looked at your order history, however, and I see that you get 2 Item Card booster packs with the remaining balance on your gift card. They are $3.49 each, and with shipping and handling the order total comes to $10.40.

Thanks,
cos

Thanks for the quick response!

I got the gift card from my cell phone company. They owed me a rebate, and instead of a check, they gave me this pre-paid visa card that expires in November (I got it in August). I want to use every last cent cause that's kind of a jerky thing for them to do.

I think plan C is to try and buy $10.56 of gas.

Plan D? Paypal $10.56 to a friend's account??? oh well.

Thanks for your help.


Hello,

I have a gift card with $10.56 on it. Is there any way I can use it, and a second form of payment to pay for a single order?

Plan B: do you have anything that costs $10.56?

Regards


Vegepygmy wrote:
Re-reading my post, I see that you're right: I was pretty hard on 1Ol0. My apologies for that. I must have been in a bad mood.

Thanks for the apology Vegepygmy. These boards have good people on them! Everybody has a bad day every now and then, but even so it's not a big thing.

I apologise as well for my snarky reply above. When confronted I usually turn to humor (of course it more often than not comes across flat when read from a page).

In general, I'm usually more of a lurker than a poster, but the crowd here at paizo are creative and intelligent, and I just can't help but want to talk to them.


Ouch! Vegepygmy I don't want to argue on the internet. Here, I'll let you win. All I have to do is bring up hilter or the nazi's right? There, flame war over.

I like the acronym RAW though, it amuses me and I think I will steal it. Always look on the briiight side of life...


Peruhain of Brithondy wrote:
...several of Tolkien's characters from Silmarillion are also great...

You read the Silmarillion? You are my hero.

I just couldn't get into that book. It was like the part in the bible where they list people and how long they lived, and their kids, and their kids kids, and their kids kids kids, etc...

Seriously though, that's cool.

Heroes:

Benjamin Franklyn - if you know of him, I don't need to explain, and if you don't, then you need to learn. He was awesome.

Dienekes - from Stephen Pressfield's "Gate of Fire" (my favorite book) good fiction about an historic event.

Stephen Pressfield wrote:

when the Spartans first occupied the pass but had not yet seen the Persians, a native of the place came dashing in; he had seen the enemy and was bug-eyed in terror at their numbers, reporting that the Persian archers were so many that when they fired their volleys, the mass of arrows actually blocked out the sun.

Dienekes, however, quite undaunted by this prospect, remarked with a laugh, "Good. Then we'll have our battle in the shade."

Fictional Heroes:

Iolas from the Hercules T.V. show. Iolas was just some guy, but he hung out with the gods. I remember in one episode, there was this hole in time or something, and Ares, the god of war, was afraid to go through it. Iolas jumped right in, no worries (Before he left, Iolas even implied that Ares, the god of war, may be a chicken.)


Jimmy wrote:

Here's the link you were looking for, I believe:

http://thingsihate.org/article/123/the_worst_dungeon_master_ever_part_one

J-

Cool, Thanks! that's exactly the one I meant.


Loon translator:

1. "I can GM anything, make any character you want from any book you want" translation: "I will take away all your abilities, skills and powers; anything that adds character too, but don't worry, my all powerful NPC's will protect you from my other all powerful NPC's. Oh and all my NPC's are better than you at everything, even the guy at the bar so drunk he can barely talk, let alone walk."

2. "can I use this character I rolled up at home?" translation: "I am a munchkin"

3. "If you make it to fifth level you're not having any fun." translation: "TPK, I win"

4. "I know I'm not the GM, but it's a standard rule, everyone knows about it." translation: "I saw it once in a magazine, for another game, with a different rule system. oh, and I quoted it wrong."

5. (in a fantasy game) "So the Bartender says Kirk would beat Picard in a stand up fight" translation: segmentation fault: core dumped

All quotes taken from actual loons, all translations made from the resulting game.


I couldn't find it, but I stumbled across a link somehere to the "worst" game ever played. It was a link to a website with a story about two girls who went over to this dude's apartment to roleplay; he was a major loon. I felt sorry for the girls in the story and hoped they eventually found some real gamers to play with. The website even had a rebuttal by the loon. I think I found it through one of Lilith's posts, or a link from her posts (I hope she wasn't one of the poor girls in the story!) I even felt bad for the girl with the winged elf character who was a friend of the loon.

There are also a few prime examples of loonies described in the "Most annoying Player/DM" threads.


I don't like that it costs XP to make things. Can you select which memories you lose when you make an item? "I learned how to bake a cake last week, but I'm going to have to learn again because I want to make an invisibility scroll"

If experience points represent experience, then I don't think they should be "spent" on anything but the character itself. I read through a few threads in the archives that discussed XP cost alternatives, there were some good ideas there.

I haven't decided how I'll handle item creation yet, but I wanted to ask the pro-XP cost crowd (or anyone who uses the XP cost rules, actually) how they handle potions, scrolls, wands, or similar non-renewable magic items (sure you can recharge wands, but you know what I mean).

It's one thing to dump XP into an item that will persist, like a weapon, or armor, but if you lose precious XP to make a potion, and then you drink the potion, where did the XP go? And why would anybody ever make these throw away items. Wouldn't you just save your XP up for permanent items?

I don't know the exact cost, but for example, wouldn't it be much better to make a ring of wizardry instead of a wand that had 50 shot of the same level spell? Sure other characters, like rouges, could then use the crafted items, but I'm not wasting my XP so some thief can shoot a few fireballs. And even in that case, I think it would be pretty rare for a wizard to trust a non-arcanist with the ability to cast spells.

The wizard had to study and research to learn these secrets. What about responsibility, esprit de corps, egotism. The whole "I had to work hard to learn this stuff, why should I give this ability to some moke who doesn't even understand the basic philosophy tied to weilding raw reality altering power."

My problem with the whole XP cost thing is: the rule part balances nicely, but the fit into the story aspect needs some thought.

Economically I think there would be no scrolls, wands, or potions at all. Or they'd be so rare that most people wouldn't know what they were. I don't want this to slide into another "XP cost alternative" thread, I'd just like to hear thoughts on non-renewable magic item creation and proliferation in the game world. I value the opinions I've seen on these boards, and I look forward to your replies.


Grimcleaver wrote:
Totally man! Open invite. You show up and I'll hook you up with the gaming session of legend!

Hey cool! You wouldn't happen to live in Southern California would you? sorta near the Disneyland area? I don't mean to hijack this into a gamer connection thread, but my email is emordnilap at the commercial domain tfgl. Drop me a line, if you're remote in the real world we can still trade campaign ideas and such.

Grimcleaver wrote:

As far as where to find people to game with I've found that if you get chummy with enough of the people who work at music stores, bookstores, video rental places, comic shops and the like you are bound to run into some cool people who are into gaming.

I tend to like to find a person who's cool--someone intelligent and interesting and introduce them to gaming if they haven't before. Usually easier for me to find someone I get along with and then make a gamer out of them than it is to find gamers and gamble on whether or not they're loony-toons.

A unique Idea. I'm not really an RPG evangelist, but I can probably think of one or two people who may be interested in learning.

Grimcleaver wrote:
Another good tactic I've found is to try to get local gaming stores to sponsor some kind of gaming event--then mine it for potential players. We actually used to run a weekly game at the college in town here and you'd be suprized how often people would stop by and ask questions. It's a good way to spread the love around.

I've been down to the local game shop the last few weekends, and they keep a set of tables open just for gamers. As suggested, I plan to make a short campaign, two or three adventures, to try out over there. Who knows maybe I'll work something out. Or at least meet a few gamers.

Grimcleaver wrote:
Anyhow we'll keep a seat warm for ya'.

right on.


Were you looking for the bunny cake? that's got to be one of the funniest pictures I've seen in a while.

http://www.tfgl.com/images/bunycake.jpg

P.S. any idea how to make a link or picture show up in a post?


farewell2kings wrote:

Suggestions--if YOU are going to start a new gaming group, advertise in the traditional outlets, but hold the first few gaming sessions at a neutral site.

I am trying to find some new players, but after my first few atempts I began to wonder how often people look for new gamers or gaming groups.

Thanks for the idea though, I think I will put together a short set of adventures to play down at the game shop.

Lilith wrote:

it's very awkward when you're new, or have a new person, meeting over at a person's house. (Having to learn the house rules {not the in-game kind, either} and meeting new people is sometimes a bit much.)

I agree, I've noticed it takes a few games for people to loosen up. Also, if you're playing with a new group it's hard to tell how they play until you've played with them a few times. And when you add in a weird locale it's harder to relax and get into character. (my house isn't weird, it's other people's houses that are weird ;D )

Thanks both for the advice!

In the past I've been lucky, my normal group is made up of people I've known since highschool (two from third grade even!). I know RPG'ing is a social hobby, but I thought it would be easier to find good players. Armed with a new tactic, the search continues!


My current gaming group hasn't had more than two or three sessions in the past two years. I am still interested in playing, and so are one or two of my friends, but most just don't have the time or interest anymore.

With people moving away, having kids, busy with job and other hobbies, there's not enough of us to hold a game together. I was wondering how often other people have changed gaming groups. (or how often they have played with new players)?

We invited a few players we found on assorted message boards (or the cork board down at the FLGS). Two out of three times they were loonies. Sadly, the third time we were the loonies (some guys we don't play with anymore scared off a very good player).

Where would you look for new players/groups? I didn't get any answers from the 'gamer connection' people I replied to.

P.S. Grimcleaver do you have an open seat at your table?


Here are a bunch of sayings that, while sounding cliche, actually have some merit if you grok them:

- internal -
Math is power

Do not decieve yourself

Do not worry about what you can not control

Do not compare yourself to others, only be better than you were

Do not tie your happiness to things, things can be lost or stolen

- external -
Math is power

Tell the truth, then you don't have to remember what you said

Do not mistake kindness for weakness

Why make an enemy when you can make a friend

Confidence is knowing your abilities, egotism is claiming abilities you may or may not have.

- humorous -
the early bird get's the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese

Oh yeah, and Math is Power


Hey Koga,

Sorry to hear about your tough times. Your posts usally make me laugh. I truly hope things go better for you. keep a stiff upper lip and all that.

-1Ol0


Carl Meyer wrote:
Carl Meyer was the name of a great king from the early medieval period of. . . OK, I'm lying. It's just my real name.

I actually laughed when I read this. Then I was asked, "what's so funny." I read a few others out loud, and when I got to yours, the person I was reading to laughed. Score two funnies for Carl :)

I try to use just one name online, but I've noticed of late my favorite one frequently is taken. So I have two backups. All of them amuse me, and are kind of rare, so I can usually be found under one of them. The fourth one is just for first person shooters. The first one is my favotire:

1. emordnilap = if a palindrome was one

2. 1Ol0 = One, Capital o, lowercase L, Zero. I don't know how to pronounce this, but in some fonts these characters look the same. This one is good, because I can just change the order if it's already in use (though I have yet to see it taken.)

3. 1338 = elite plus one, my own little dig at script kiddies and h@x0rs.

4. John Malkovich = this one I only use for first person shooters. When you die you can usually you look out of your team mates "eyes". I happen to be quite good, so I am often the last one alive on my team.


The White Toymaker wrote:
she's treading on dangerous ground anyway in adventuring with evil characters. Unless the rogue has had a Ring of Mindshielding since some time before he started the facelifting, she should be well aware of his evil nature, if not the specifics.

I agree, the paladin is close to trouble. This is a good place for a hook. What if the paladin has a dream about the rogue's victims, or maybe one of the victims was brought back, healed, and happens across the party. Of course that brings the question of how this party came to be together in the first place.

I know it's kind of tough if the players don't make complimentry characters (or at least ones that wouldn't attack eachother if they weren't PC's). So if you don't really want to go down that path, another angle could be to explore the down-on-his-luck wizard. How did he get that way (does he owe money? did he lose his nerve?) The hook could be: is the wizard willing to trade some task to get back on his feet?

I know you probably have an overall campaign arc in place, but as a side plot, you could also take a look at the town itself. Why is it run down? what was its major resource, and why did this resource dry up? related to that, you could look at the area around the town. What is the geography near by, and what kind of creatures live in it?

If you spin up an environment that extends beyond the town, with reasons for all the stuff to be there, adventure hooks should pop up more readily.

or one more for the evil rogue, what if one of his victims was an adventurer's sister? A group of PC like adventurers could come around looking for the guy that mutilated their buddy's sister.


The White Toymaker wrote:
And if the cleric's ability scores are out of line with the rest of the party, and it's causing a problem, drop a curse or two on him to drop his ability scores. Or, if that wouldn't fix the problem, a Baleen Whale. "Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot that small creatures take that -4 penalty on grapple checks. My bad."

Eeek! if the player really rolled the rolls, and you allowed the character into the game, don't take them away because they're too good!

I had a thief once who became pretty good at thievery, (pick pocketing mostly) the GM kept making the targets tougher and tougher, almost godly in awareness. "I wanted it to be exciting for you" he said. Well it wasn't fun at all. Why build up a skill if it's just going to get "cursed" back down (or if everyone else just happens to get better at countering your skill)?

As a player, if I get a lucky roll and try to build a character around it, removing that lucky roll defeats the purpose of "rolling" up characters. I might as well play a skilless bum who gets kicked around by any joe on the street.

Sorry Toymaker, I don't mean to jump down your throat. I'm not a "power player" or a twink, but part of the fun of playing is building a character up over the course of adventures.


I think I may have been misunderstood. My question was not "why aren't elves supermen?", but more "why the lack of skill?" I read through the "superelf" thread, but it was more concerned with elves near the end of their long lifespan. I was more interested in the starting elf (or the starting character of any long lived race for that matter).

I, like most everyone, have my own ideas about what elves are, and how their society works. But I recently got into ADnD3E and was reading their take on the long lived races (elves in particular). They state that elves are chaotic, very expressive, and personal freedom is utmost in importance.

One of the things they mention is that elves are self sufficient, to the point that there is no real specialization in elven culture. Each elf does everything for himself. Now, they also say that through their life an elf will find some things he enjoys more than others, and will get better at these things simply because he spends more time doing them. Also they say that barter is more common than buying services. As in "I'll build you a house if you make me some clothes."

So with this concept in mind, I tried to make a "self sufficient" elf with many craft skills. there just weren't enough points to do it. So this 143 year old elf, who was supposed to be able to farm, make his own clothes, plates, utensils, furniture, even house, could barely do even part of these things. And that was just with one skill point per craft.

I agree that the way the elves are described they would seem to do everything a "correct" way, but if you spend years doing even a few things "the right way" you should have more than one point to show for it. One skill point just plain means you are not very good at that skill.

Have you ever seen the movie Groundhog Day? In one sceen Bill Murray is throwing cards across a room into a hat. The girl keeps missing and says something like it must have taken you years to learn that? He says only every day for a few months. He has a perfect style, or "the right way" and it's definitely more than one skill point in "throw card into hat".

That's why I thought that elves (and other long lived races) would make more sense to start off at a younger age. Or maybe just give those long lived races extra skill points that can only be spent on craft skills?

It just seems like there is a discrepency where this elf doesn't have many skills to show for 100+ years of life, but then starts growing amazingly skilled in a few short years (I mean how often do your characters age naturally? one year, two years, five? yeah we've had a few birthdays here and there. But to keep an elf learning at his "character creation" rate you would need 40 or 50 natural in game years per skill point.)


I'm new to DnD 3rd edition. I just bought a bunch of DnD 3rd edition stuff, and I've been reading through it. I like to play elves, but one of the things that always bothered me was their starting age.

In the races of the wild book, they say an elf reaches maturity around twenty-five or so (about twenty for humans).

I think there is something strange about that. The elf takes, for example, 143 years to build a set of skills the human builds in seventeen to twenty years.

That would be okay, if the elf continued to learn at this slower pace. But all of a sudden, once he starts adventuring, the elf's cranking out the skill points.

Our house rules say an elf starts off near the same age as the other characters. An elf lives longer, but I never understood why this plus one hundred year old creature lacked life experience?

Shouldn't a one hundred plus year old creature have one hundred plus years of knowledge? I'm just curious how other people deal with this?


I hope more people post their stories, I'd like to read them. This is great.

So here's one of my favorites. We were dungeon crawling, it seemed like a normal "hey guys, there's some old ruins up in the hills..." And at first it was. But we soon came across some evil clerics trying to open a portal, awaken evil, and end the world, etc, etc.

Our party was a bit unusual, we were all sneaky classes, not really fighters. We found out that this mummified finger they had was the key to their portal. Well one of the rogues stole it!

All sorts of hell was after who ever held the thing, but the rest of us were ignored, and could easily hide. So we split up. One of our mages went as fast as he could back to town for help, first magically, and when he was out of spells that could help him, he ran.

I think the GM was surprised when we got the thing. I think it was just supposed to be some gruesome component, not a way to stop the clerics. So now he was trying to kind of force us to give it back. But after a few close escapes (natural 20 baby!) he got into the chase too. It was a fun kind of "hot potato" chase through the ruins.

Eventually, everyone else was subdued (kept for the ritual, said the GM). I ended up trapped in this great undergound cavern with a chasm that split the huge room in half. I should mention that the crap he was throwing at us was way out of our league. Even if we had fighters I still think it would have been tough.

I was surrounded, and one of the evil clerics came walking forward. The GM says with a smile,"The cleric says,'you gave a good chase, but it's over. Give me the artifact.'"

So I said,"I eat it."


Jeremy Mac Donald wrote:
My issue with to some extent is it feels like the ultimate rail roading. The players are free to do whatever they want but their freedom is a complete illusion - no matter what they do they are going to bump into your next encounter because you have made it generic enough that you can always pop it in. It seems to make the point of choosing anything essential irrelivent - your players might as well say 'we walk in a random direction until your encounter comes up'.

Maybe I didn't explain my method correctly. The outcome of the events/encounters dictate what will happen in the next session. The characters have the ultimate choice of where the campaign will go. Let me give you an example.

In one campaign my players decided they wanted to go and collect silk from giant spiders. When I described the inital setup of the area I mentioned there were small skirmishes between the city-state they were in and the neighboring one. Not real war, but it could lead to that. I mentioned a forest full of giant spiders as a color piece, it had nothing to do with the campaign, it was just something to the south of where they were. I described a bunch of other stuff around the area too, mountains, lakes, foothills, and the critters that were rumored to be in them.

Why go get spider silk? I have no idea. But this is what they wanted to do. So off they went, and on the way they came across a guy who'd been jumped by bandits. He'd been walking and had no armor or weapons, just his clothes. And he looked a bit beat up. They didn't know it, but this guy was a spy/scout for the city-state they just left. If they helped him, he would get his message through, if not, his message wouldn't make it.

Lucky for him the PC's leaned towards good, and loaned him an extra horse. (He never let on that he was a scout, as far as they were concerned they were just helping some guy get back to town).

They went on to the spider forest, but that one act changed everything, the local army was in the right place to stop the coming invasion. The war began at the border instead of raized towns all the way to the capital.

Later in the campaign this act helped open adventures with the army and the rulers of the city, which never would have happened if the PC's were just some dirty foreigners passing through in time of war.

I guess from one point of view I railroaded them into the campaign, but from another point of view the campaign happens with or without the players. If they decide to take place in the events they can. If they do, they will directly change the outcome. Or they can just go collect spider silk!

This is where I should point out that not all event/encounters have to do with the main campaign arc, sometimes bandits robbing a caravan are just that. This way, when you're deeper in the campaign it's kind of cool for the players to look back and realize I caused this change by helping this guy, or doing this thing. It makes them take all events seriously, because the outcome may affect the world around them. Instead of just "I attack it!"


Heathansson wrote:
Dealing with problem players? Doing dumb things? Waste them. Tough love, baby. Maybe they'll learn the next time they roll up a character...

That's cool for cyberpunk, beyond the supernatural, or the old whitewolf games, but have you ever tried to roll up a ninjas and superspies character? It takes almost a whole session just for the stats/skills/equipment.

They better do something real stupid/unlucky if I'm going to kill off one of those (not that they have immunity, but it does take an awful long time to roll up another PC).

Though it is fun when the reckoning comes to a difficult player. Some games are even setup for you to die... ever play paranoia?


Thanks for the compliment Grimcleaver! Actually that was my first post. I've been getting spam from paizo for about a year now. well it finnaly wore me down and I bought some stuff (still waiting for it to ship).

I didn't even know they had forums. After I made my order I just started to poke around the site.

Grimcleaver wrote:
The one ingredient I would add to what you mention is to draw the big events from loose ends generated by the characters backgrounds and goals.

I like your suggestion to tie in the characters loose ends! I'm going to steal it. I have one or two players in my group who make solid characters, but the rest pretty much just want to say "I attack it!"

I have, of course, used character background before in campaigns, but the overall setting was never really connected to the characters. It's usually "your contact tell you this..." or "your ward gets caught shoplifting..." or whatever.

The characters themselves usually grew up somewhere else, had all their social ties outside the adventure area, or just didn't have many social ties beyond the PC's. Basically they're usually a wandering group of adventurers.

I think it would be interesting to really pull in all the elements from the characters' history. Like maybe even start them off in their hometown, near relatives, friends, and politics important to the character!

I bet they'll be a lot more reluctant to shoot that fireball if they know the tavern they're in belongs to Uncle Bob. And maybe money isn't the top motivator when the bandits are robbing and killing people their character knows. The more I think about it the more I like it. I just wonder if "I attack it!" will be pulled more into the role playing. Let's hope so.


This has been a very interesting thread. Personally I have never experienced "satanic panic" (stealing Demiurge 1138's colorful Alliteration).

The closest I ever got was long ago in my high school years. My mom became christian. She had a few questions for me about my hobby. I explained that RPG's were like writting a story. That was the end of that.

The funny one was when she heard from church that Quantum leap was evil, because it was about reincarnation! It was one of my favorite shows, so she sat down and watched it with me. It became her favorite show as well. So sad about how the series ended though :( oh well.

As for the koga? YHBT YHL HAND


Aramil Naïlo wrote:
What do you do about difficult players...

As the GM for my group I have run across the same problem. We call it "going west", as in: There's an exciting adventure taking place in this town! Oh well, let's see where the west road out of adventure town goes.

Here's a few things I've learned along the way (as a Player and a GM):

1. Forcing players to do things usually ends up bad. One time as a player, I was in a game where we were infected with a disease, and had to work for the bad guys to get the cure (it was a modern day game, and the bad guys were holding Chicago ransom with an atomic bomb. We knew the bad guys were in the city somewhere so you can probably figure out the rest). I've found if you want to have the players in a "forced" scenario, leave them an alternative. Even if it's an alternative you "overlooked". Given a choice they will most likely play along.

2. Set adventures are fun...but a wider world is more exciting. Long ago my adventures were modeled after boxed modules. Go here, talk to this guy, then go here, get this item, then go here, etc. Fight a bunch of stuff along the way. This type of linear adventure is good, but has a forced way about it. And it can get thrown off if the players think of something you didn't (like if they kill the "boss at the end of the level", in a bar fight, near the campaign's beginning!)

How I try to write campaigns/adventures now is more geographic than linear. For example:

Get a Campaign idea; think of all the pivital events that need to happen for the bad guys to win. Then take a look at the PC's and see how far they can travel in one adventure's worth of time. Then create a bunch of small events/encounters that happen within that first adventure "travel area". Make them generic enough so if they go any direction they may still encounter the event (such as "guy in a bar overheard bragging..." or "burned out caravan found along the raod..."). But also make sure the small events hint at, and lead to, bigger events.

At the end of the first adventure, take a look at the PC's and see how far they can travel in one adventure's worth of time. Make another set of small events/encounters (and you'll still have some of the first ones left over, because they won't have done them all). Wash, Rinse, Repeat.

This way the adventure unfolds around the characters, but they aren't neccesarily the center of it. And they get the appearance of freedom of movement. I believe any time you can avoid "forcing" PC's to do something the fun level goes up. And this way, even if the PC's never "get in the game" so to speak, you still have a bunch of events/encounters right up till the bad guys win (and then maybe the next campaign is un-doing what the bad guys did!).

3. The GM is all powerfull, but... you only have that power because the Players agree to put their characters into your universe. Without characters and players, you're just writing a story.

Too many games I've played in the GM comes to the table with the attitude GM versus the Players. The GM will have a special NPC, monster, or event that MUST get used. I understand as a GM when you pour so much time into creating these things, you kind of want them to win. But if you realize when you are making them, that their purpose is to further the story, even by getting defeated, killed, or destroyed, your attitude will shift.

If you create setting pieces knowing their fate, it is a bit easier to let them go. And if you take the attitude that we're all working together to spin an interactive tale, you'll start to root for the story itself, wether a PC, NPC, or monster is the current actor the "spotlight" is on.

4. Interactive story...get the players input! Locke1520 put it excellently:

Locke1520 wrote:
Find out why the player in question refuses to follow the hints and areas you have planned out. Maybe he's feeling railroaded, or he's not interested in the current thread of the story. It could also be a lack of communication and he's misreading your cues. Because these things can be issues in any game I try to talk to my players after the session find out what bits they liked and what they plan to do next session. That way my planning follows their intent.