If I have the following:
Generation School
Associated School: Evocation.
Replacement Powers: The following school powers replace the intense spells and force missile powers of the evocation school.
Lingering Evocations (Su): Any evocation spell you cast with a duration greater than instantaneous lasts an additional number of rounds equal to 1/2 your wizard level (minimum +1). At 20th level, any dispel checks made against your evocation spells must be rolled twice, and your opponent must use the less favorable result.
How does this affect say like a fireball? I'm just not too sure about the mechanics of the Lingering effects whether there's more damage done or what.
Stepperjep wrote: Any evocation spell you cast with a duration greater than instantaneous lasts an additional number of rounds equal to 1/2 your wizard level (minimum +1). D20PFSRD wrote:
Fireball
School evocation [fire]; Level magus 3, sorcerer/wizard 3; Domain fire 3
CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (a ball of bat guano and sulfur)
EFFECT
Range long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Area 20-ft.-radius spread
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw Reflex half; Spell Resistance yes
So the straight up answer is you can't 'linger it' ie does nothing.
ON THE OTHER HAND...
D20PFSRD wrote:
Wall of Fire
School evocation [fire]; Level druid 5, magus 4, sorcerer/wizard 4, summoner 3; Domain fire 4
CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M/DF (a piece of phosphor)
EFFECT
Range medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Effect opaque sheet of flame up to 20 ft. long/level or a ring of fire with a radius of up to 5 ft./two levels; either form 20 ft. high
Duration concentration + 1 round/level
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance yes
This would be Conc+1.5x your level.
However, if you apply the lingering spell metamagic feat to the fireball spell and you are a specialist wizard specializing in evocation (generation) then you can apply the lingering evocations effect wizard power to your prepared lingering fireball (lv 4 spell) and enjoy multiple casting of lasting fireballs on the battlefield that enemies will have to avoid....
breakdown of feat:
Lingering Spell (Metamagic)
You spell clings to existence, slowly fading from the world.
Benefit: You may cause an instantaneous spell that affects an area to persist until the beginning of your next turn. Those already in the area suffer no additional harm, but other creatures or objects entering the area are subject to its effects. A lingering spell with a visual manifestation obscures vision, providing concealment (20% miss chance) beyond 5 feet and total concealment (50% miss chance) beyond 20 feet.
A lingering spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level.
I'm wondering if you can then apply the pyrotechnics spell to the lasting fireballs; if so MWAHAHAHAHA!
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Seems like a pretty cool combo. I imagine only stringent GMs will disallow it. I see absolutely nothing in RAW that will totally prevent it.
A lingering fireball has a duration of 1 round, just as much as a reach magic missile has long range or a widened fireball has a radius of 40 feet. That's what metamagic does; it changes the parameters of the spell.
Shadowsunninja wrote: However, if you apply the lingering spell metamagic feat to the fireball spell and you are a specialist wizard specializing in evocation (generation) then you can apply the lingering evocations effect wizard power to your prepared lingering fireball (lv 4 spell) and enjoy multiple casting of lasting fireballs on the battlefield that enemies will have to avoid....
breakdown of feat:
Lingering Spell (Metamagic)
You spell clings to existence, slowly fading from the world.
Benefit: You may cause an instantaneous spell that affects an area to persist until the beginning of your next turn. Those already in the area suffer no additional harm, but other creatures or objects entering the area are subject to its effects. A lingering spell with a visual manifestation obscures vision, providing concealment (20% miss chance) beyond 5 feet and total concealment (50% miss chance) beyond 20 feet.
A lingering spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level.
I'm wondering if you can then apply the pyrotechnics spell to the lasting fireballs; if so MWAHAHAHAHA!
No.
The "lingering" FEAT causes an effect to persist for 1 round after the initial casting. It does not give the spell a duration. It causes a secondary, persisting effect on a spell.
The school bonus to add "lingering" as a supernatural power effects spells that have a duration.
Its worth a thought, but it doesn't stack. Doesn't really matter if you look at it "Rules as Written" or "Rules as Intended"...
It only works if you really poorly read the intensify feat, the intensify power, and you ignore the text for fireball...
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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
optionalslot wrote:
No.
The "lingering" FEAT causes an effect to persist for 1 round after the initial casting. It does not give the spell a duration. It causes a secondary, persisting effect on a spell.
The school bonus to add "lingering" as a supernatural power effects spells that have a duration.
Its worth a thought, but it doesn't stack. Doesn't really matter if you look at it "Rules as Written" or "Rules as Intended"...
It only works if you really poorly read the intensify feat, the intensify power, and you ignore the text for fireball... Please don't talk of your own opinions/interpretations as though it were hard coded rules that everyone needs to follow, it's not.
Ravingdork wrote: optionalslot wrote:
No.
The "lingering" FEAT causes an effect to persist for 1 round after the initial casting. It does not give the spell a duration. It causes a secondary, persisting effect on a spell.
The school bonus to add "lingering" as a supernatural power effects spells that have a duration.
Its worth a thought, but it doesn't stack. Doesn't really matter if you look at it "Rules as Written" or "Rules as Intended"...
It only works if you really poorly read the intensify feat, the intensify power, and you ignore the text for fireball... Please don't talk of your own opinions/interpretations as though it were hard coded rules that everyone needs to follow, it's not. Yeah, I agree Ravingdork. To me, the way I interpreted it was that the spell now acts as a spell with a 1 round duration, much as the same way as many spells work with a duration of 1 round/lv.; for example a lv. 1 wizard casts summon monster 1, the creature is there, does things while it is there, and right before the wizards next turn, the spell ends and the creature is now gone. I think I'm right on how spells with durations like this work (I hope anyways). I know it seems cheap, but much love was needed for blasters (my favorite) since the invention of the superior summoning feat (a NON-METAMAGIC feat mind you) and an extended summon monster VIII: what's that, 1d4+2!!! succubi, that's right, for 30+ rounds (or 3+minutes)...yeah...
There is absolutely nothing in the Lingering Spell description that alters duration or even mentions duration. Even if it did, it wouldn't do anything crazy like cause the spell to explode over and over again on the same creatures. It would still have the limitations of the Lingering Spell feat.
Trikk wrote: There is absolutely nothing in the Lingering Spell description that alters duration or even mentions duration. Even if it did, it wouldn't do anything crazy like cause the spell to explode over and over again on the same creatures. It would still have the limitations of the Lingering Spell feat. Yes, I know that, it isn't supposed to damage the targets caught within the area effect over and over again.
The feat says that "Those already in the area suffer no additional harm, but other creatures or objects entering the area are subject to its effects."
It's for controlling the landscape so that enemies will have to decide on a better way of approaching you if they didn't already get hit with the spell. Say a fighter or another close combat character who didn't have a ranged weapon had to close the distance to you, instead of charging straight to you or triple/quadruple run (moving in a straight line) to you, he/she decides it's probably better to move around the lingering fireball, instead of taking damage (only once for each spell).
Or for mass crowd control. There's a horde of enemies who are closely packed together, do a couple of these and stop there mass movements or help separate them from their allies who have auras or tactics abilities.
Or if in a dungeon corridor, buy yourself some time to launch a couple of these at different intervals down the passageway if your being chased or something; if in a line the enemies caught will take damage and others who don't have spellcraft will think it's a different evocation spell and may try to find another way down the passage.
There are a ton of possibilities, the lingering spell feat and the lingering effects ability add to the blaster's versatility is all, not become a way to do excessive amounts of damage that is already possible.
Are there any examples of an instantaneous spell with an effect (maybe even just an additional) that seems to have a "magical" duration, and not a normal one. EG an instantaneous fatigue spell that cures after 5 rounds, not an instantaneous fatigue spell that cures after rest. I seem to recall there being something like that, but if there isn't, then that would be pretty strong evidence that lingering spell actually does increase the duration of the spell.
Merkatz wrote: Are there any examples of an instantaneous spell with an effect (maybe even just an additional) that seems to have a "magical" duration, and not a normal one. EG an instantaneous fatigue spell that cures after 5 rounds, not an instantaneous fatigue spell that cures after rest. I seem to recall there being something like that, but if there isn't, then that would be pretty strong evidence that lingering spell actually does increase the duration of the spell.
Off the top of my head, none that I can think of, but I know there are some so I'll get back to you. But what about other metamagic feats that apply effects that have a duration? Concussive spell, Dazing Spell, Disruptive Spell (1 round), Flaring Spell, Rime Spell, Sickening Spell, Thundering Spell, or Heighten Spell (which prolongs the effects of these metamagic feats)? My plan is to use a lingering dazing fireball (6th or 7th lv spell depending, but lets say 7th) or a lingering rime cone of cold (also a 7th lv spell) combined with the lingering effects of the generation evoker on different rounds centered on different points to really control movement on the battlefield.
Again, I know that the damage isn't going to happen every round, but lets say an enemy is outside the lingering spell, walks, pushed (telekinesis, force punch, forceful hand), or bull rushed into the spell's area, that enemy will get damaged (unless evasion or something), and then be affected by other metamagic feats (i think they all offer a save as well).
Now, I know that this can be done with just the lingering spell feat and other feats, with the spell area lasting until the beginning of your next turn, but again as the way I interpreted the lingering effects for the generation school wizard, you cast the spell, and those who aren't initially in the spell area really need to make sure they don't enter it on later rounds so they would not only take damage, but potentially other effects as well. Obviously, open to interpretation (on the lingering effects ability found in APG), but I do appreciate hearing thoughts on this.
Merkatz wrote: Are there any examples of an instantaneous spell with an effect (maybe even just an additional) that seems to have a "magical" duration, and not a normal one. EG an instantaneous fatigue spell that cures after 5 rounds, not an instantaneous fatigue spell that cures after rest. I seem to recall there being something like that, but if there isn't, then that would be pretty strong evidence that lingering spell actually does increase the duration of the spell.
As far as some spells go with added effects with a duration but otherwise are instantaneous area effect spells (burst, line, cone, etc) here are a few:
Flare Burst, Hydraulic Torrent (Bull rushes those it hits, up to you how you want to deal with this), Storm Bolts, Color Spray, Shout, Greater Shout, Greater Dispel Magic (up for debate, but if so obviously for area effect version), Prismatic Spray (blinds for a few rounds as well as potentially permanent effects), some others too I’m sure, I was trying to stay on evocation spells, but like color spray, there are other spells from other schools.
But one thing to remember is that for my idea to work, the spells must also have an area effect (as noted earlier in this post). I know there are some conjuration spells and necromancy too, but my wizard's prohibited schools are necromancy and illusion, but if you find any spells like these, let me know. I hope my last two posts gave you something to think about.
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Ravingdork wrote: optionalslot wrote:
No.
The "lingering" FEAT causes an effect to persist for 1 round after the initial casting. It does not give the spell a duration. It causes a secondary, persisting effect on a spell.
The school bonus to add "lingering" as a supernatural power effects spells that have a duration.
Its worth a thought, but it doesn't stack. Doesn't really matter if you look at it "Rules as Written" or "Rules as Intended"...
It only works if you really poorly read the intensify feat, the intensify power, and you ignore the text for fireball... Please don't talk of your own opinions/interpretations as though it were hard coded rules that everyone needs to follow, it's not. Except that he is actually correct so your attitude is uncalled for. The rules text is not a mere oversight, they would have specified it changing the duration if it actually did so. There are benefits to this since there are other things that only affect instantaneous spells allowing u to stack those effects. for ex: selective + lingering.
I've been doing a forum search on the subject.
Rules as Intended, if I were to hazard a guess, the time a spell lasts is called its "duration". Thus, if you take an instantaneous duration spell and make it last for a round instead, by definition you have changed its "duration".
However, as obvious & common sense as that may seem, the Rules as Written say:
Lingering Spell wrote: You may cause an instantaneous spell that affects an area to persist until the beginning of your next turn. What it does not say is:
Not Lingering Spell's Actual Text wrote: You may change the duration of a spell. Specifically, an instantaneous spell that affects an area may be altered with this metamagic to have a duration of 1 round. During this extended duration... Since it doesn't say it changes the duration, strictest RAW doesn't change the duration.
To be fair, though, you can't really define "duration" as:
Pathfinder Core Rulebook wrote: A spell's duration entry tells you how long the magical energy of the spell lasts. (emphasis my own)
And then go on to say that an effect which makes an instantaneous spell last until the beginning of your next turn doesn't change the duration of the spell. RAI and RAW agree, if you care what the words being used mean, instead of just what words are in which sentences.
edit to correct my conclusion.
If the effect of a spell lasts for 1 round... the duration of the spell is not instantaneous.
If you think it is instantaneous, there is an error in your understanding of either the meaning of ‘duration’, or ‘instantaneous’. Or some combination of the two.
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