Pathfinder Playtest Preorder Update

Hi Vic! Is there any info on Spain orders?

Shipped via UPS to Barcelona, Delivery Estimate: August 8, 2018

(And before you ask, I have no idea why these are so different.)

No Notification yet and I am both a Prime customer and a UPS and USPS customer. Not to mention I ordered the minute we could.

Tried reading the PDF but I HATE PDF and reading s~$*e on a PC. Give me a daarn book.

And I am in the US (Colorado) and an Amazon fulfillment center less than an hour from my house

I don't know what more you want Paizo to do about it. Amazon has everything.

I don't know what more you want Paizo to do about it. Amazon has everything.

Sorry. I love Paizo as a company, having been a customer since the Dragon / Dungeon days but if you subcontract something as important to the company's reputation as delivery of playtest products for the next edition then you need to have put in place adequate oversight of the process. That doesn't seem to have happened here and, having seen above I might have to wait over a month from now for products I paid for in mid-July I am (I think justifiably) appalled at the company at the moment.

Yikes, that's...not good. I don't blame Paizo, though; this is all on Amazon. This means my group won't be able to do the playtest until my books arrive, and right now the expected date is ??? (I also don't do so well reading long PDFs). Given the tight timetable for the playtest, that has me a little concerned we won't be able to submit our feedback in time. If there's any way to extend things by a few days or a week, that might help (depending on how long orders actually take to show up).

Given what I know of Amazon's business practices, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they deliberately prioritized the orders from their site over Paizo orders. I really hope Paizo reconsiders using them for anything again. (This screw-up notwithstanding, I avoid them entirely due to the ethical reasons elaborated on by a commenter above.)

I appreciate the willingness to offer something for an issue you didn't cause, though.

TriOmegaZero wrote:

I don't know what more you want Paizo to do about it. Amazon has everything.

Sorry. I love Paizo as a company, having been a customer since the Dragon / Dungeon days but if you subcontract something as important to the company's reputation as delivery of playtest products for the next edition then you need to have put in place adequate oversight of the process. That doesn't seem to have happened here and, having seen above I might have to wait over a month from now for products I paid for in mid-July I am (I think justifiably) appalled at the company at the moment.

What do you expect Paizo to do that they are not?

Ordered directly from Amazon with cost savings and on-time delivery. Both the playtest hardcover and adventure are out for shipping, scheduled to arrive by 8 PM PST tonight. No issues whatsoever with Amazon, as usual.

Medriev wrote:

TriOmegaZero wrote:

I don't know what more you want Paizo to do about it. Amazon has everything.

Sorry. I love Paizo as a company, having been a customer since the Dragon / Dungeon days but if you subcontract something as important to the company's reputation as delivery of playtest products for the next edition then you need to have put in place adequate oversight of the process. That doesn't seem to have happened here and, having seen above I might have to wait over a month from now for products I paid for in mid-July I am (I think justifiably) appalled at the company at the moment.

What do you expect Paizo to do that they are not?

As a minimum, those facing a delay of a month as I seem to be should be refunded shipping costs (I paid $26). I have raised this by email with customer service. I appreciate the $15 store credit but I don't think it cuts it for the kind of delay it looks like I am expected to live with.

Given the tight timetable for the playtest, that has me a little concerned we won't be able to submit our feedback in time. If there's any way to extend things by a few days or a week, that might help (depending on how long orders actually take to show up).

The playtest surveys don't have hard closing deadlines, and we'll be reading the forums for many months to come.

As a minimum, those facing a delay of a month as I seem to be should be refunded shipping costs (I paid $26). I have raised this by email with customer service. I appreciate the $15 store credit but I don't think it cuts it for the kind of delay it looks like I am expected to live with.

I believe Vic said they are discussing that with Amazon.

Medriev wrote:

As a minimum, those facing a delay of a month as I seem to be should be refunded shipping costs (I paid $26). I have raised this by email with customer service. I appreciate the $15 store credit but I don't think it cuts it for the kind of delay it looks like I am expected to live with.

I believe Vic said they are discussing that with Amazon.

Indeed he did. But I didn't pay Amazon.

Meraki wrote:

Given the tight timetable for the playtest, that has me a little concerned we won't be able to submit our feedback in time. If there's any way to extend things by a few days or a week, that might help (depending on how long orders actually take to show up).

The playtest surveys don't have hard closing deadlines, and we'll be reading the forums for many months to come.

That's good to know, thanks, Vic.

I hope you guys get something back from Amazon for your trouble. I'm sure this is no picnic for you either.

Indeed he did. But I didn't pay Amazon.

I don't find that particularly relevant to the process of determining Paizo's way forward. Other than the fact that you will receive whatever compensation Paizo offers and I will not, as I did pay Amazon.

Medriev wrote:

Indeed he did. But I didn't pay Amazon.

I don't find that particularly relevant to the process of determining Paizo's way forward. Other than the fact that you will receive whatever compensation Paizo offers and I will not, as I did pay Amazon.

Paizo need to determine the way forward they offer to those that ordered the Playtest products through them and Amazon need to determine how they resolve issues with those that ordered through them.

Of course I will receive whatever compensation that Paizo determine I should have but I will argue strongly that it should be more than the $15 store credit given the month delay I am going to experience.

Anybody for a class action lawsuit? 10% discount on fees and bonus corny jokes about your Momma!

Usually, when I order something directly from Amazon, it not arriving on time is a valid reason for a full refund.

If my order from Paizo is, in fact, going to be significantly delayed, I’d appreciate the option of cancelling my order for a full refund and trying to acquire the materials sooner elsewhere.

Daniel Gago wrote:

Hi Vic! Is there any info on Spain orders?

Shipped via UPS to Barcelona, Delivery Estimate: August 8, 2018

Shipped via IPARCEL to Barcelona, Delivery Estimate: August 21, 2018

(And before you ask, I have no idea why these are so different.)

Ok, Thanks a lot, Vic!

cancelled Amazon order before reading this, They sent a Email about not having stock and they were trying to locate some, did not look good, now ordered it with the book depository cheaper that Amazon.

I am based in the UK and a Amazon Prime member

Meraki wrote:

Given the tight timetable for the playtest, that has me a little concerned we won't be able to submit our feedback in time. If there's any way to extend things by a few days or a week, that might help (depending on how long orders actually take to show up).

The playtest surveys don't have hard closing deadlines, and we'll be reading the forums for many months to come.

i was wondering vic what is the final date when americans hsould recive their order before asking for a refund? will the books be in a amazon box?

i live in the middle of no where wondering when ill get my item , another question when will the 15 be posted to our accounts? i was hoping to use it for augest books?

Turelus wrote:

Vic I noticed in the orders your checked you didn't list the UK, are you able to check any UK orders to give us a rough ETA? As the EU countries listed have a few days difference in them.

Some UK orders:

London, shipped yesterday, Delivery Estimate: September 6
Cumbria, shipped yesterday, Delivery Estimate: September 6
Aberdeen, shipped today, Delivery Estimate: September 6

Not UK:
Ireland, shipped yesterday, Delivery Estimate: September 6

This is astoundingly bad. Can we have contact details for Amazon so we can complain directly.

also is all the playtest avaible to everyone for free or those who paid for them?

cancelled Amazon order before reading this, They sent a Email about not having stock and they were trying to locate some, did not look good, now ordered it with the book depository cheaper that Amazon.

I am based in the UK and a Amazon Prime member

Wow. Just looked at Book Depository and I can get the books within two days at substantially reduced cost to what I have already paid. Can Paizo advise if a full refund is possible for UK customers please?

EJDean wrote:

Was Amazon in charge of general distribution to game stores too? Reportedly, playtest copies haven't arrived in the UK yet, only arriving at the European distributor, Asmodee, on Wednesday. Doomsday Dawn and the flip mats are supposedly still sitting on pallets in New York as well.

I'm not in current contact with the people who would know for sure—they're in meetings all day at Gen con, but I've sent an inquiry. That said, I was told yesterday that European retailers have received product. (Also, our UK distributor is Esdevium, not Asmodee.)

I don't have an answer yet, but I have been educated about Esdevium Games changing their name to Asmodee UK at the beginning of the year!

FYI, All Canadian Buyers.

I cancelled my order with Amazon.ca and ordered from Chapters/Indigo.ca
It is in stock and will have it August 8th.
If you collect plum points from chapters today only online purchase is x5 plum points. I got 1608 points for my order and at 2500 you get $5 off.

also is all the playtest avaible to everyone for free or those who paid for them?

Playtest is available (and as far as I understand) and encouraged to be tested by everyone (Free Pdf or Print).

The Print version was just made available for collectors, people who prefer a printed version and people who wish to support Paizo.

Vic Wertz wrote:

EJDean wrote:

Was Amazon in charge of general distribution to game stores too? Reportedly, playtest copies haven't arrived in the UK yet, only arriving at the European distributor, Asmodee, on Wednesday. Doomsday Dawn and the flip mats are supposedly still sitting on pallets in New York as well.

I'm not in current contact with the people who would know for sure—they're in meetings all day at Gen con, but I've sent an inquiry. That said, I was told yesterday that European retailers have received product. (Also, our UK distributor is Esdevium, not Asmodee.)

I don't have an answer yet, but I have been educated about Esdevium Games changing their name to Asmodee UK at the beginning of the year!

when is the last date americans can expsect their package when will the 15 be put into our accounts?

Vic Wertz wrote:

Daniel Gago wrote:

Hi Vic! Is there any info on Spain orders?

Shipped via UPS to Barcelona, Delivery Estimate: August 8, 2018

Shipped via IPARCEL to Barcelona, Delivery Estimate: August 21, 2018

(And before you ask, I have no idea why these are so different.)

Ok, Thanks a lot, Vic!

Actually, I do have an idea: international shipping categories frequently have 4-pound minimums or maximums. I suspect that the UPS shipment is over 4 pounds and the IPARCEL shipment is under. But that's just an educated guess.

chris settlemoir wrote:

also is all the playtest avaible to everyone for free or those who paid for them?

Playtest is available (and as far as I understand) and encouraged to be tested by everyone (Free Pdf or Print).

The Print version was just made available for collectors, people who prefer a printed version and people who wish to support Paizo.

really ugh i bought the play test expecting it to be exlusive like alot of other companys do you buy the playtest you get it it others have to wait till release

Allard wrote:

cancelled Amazon order before reading this, They sent a Email about not having stock and they were trying to locate some, did not look good, now ordered it with the book depository cheaper that Amazon.

I am based in the UK and a Amazon Prime member

Wow. Just looked at Book Depository and I can get the books within two days at substantially reduced cost to what I have already paid. Can Paizo advise if a full refund is possible for UK customers please?

I too would like to know if I can have a refund so that I can order from somewhere that can actually deliver without shipping from the US to the UK via Antactica - 35 days shipping - I thought that we are in the 21st century, not the 19th.

For clarity, my complaint is 95% with Amazon, and 5% with the Paizo team that negotiated the contract with Amazon.

i was wondering vic what is the final date when americans hsould recive their order before asking for a refund?

I won't be able to answer that until Amazon is able to tell me when they will complete shipping.

will the books be in a amazon box?

That's my understanding.

when will the 15 be posted to our accounts? i was hoping to use it for augest books?

I just gave the order for the tech team to figure out how to make that happen last night, so I can't say just yet.

Allard wrote:

cancelled Amazon order before reading this, They sent a Email about not having stock and they were trying to locate some, did not look good, now ordered it with the book depository cheaper that Amazon.

I am based in the UK and a Amazon Prime member

Wow. Just looked at Book Depository and I can get the books within two days at substantially reduced cost to what I have already paid. Can Paizo advise if a full refund is possible for UK customers please?

Have ordered from Book Depository (for less than I paid Paizo) and requested a full refund from Paizo through customer service. Can't see why we should have to wait until September in the UK when other retailers have the products available now.

Turelus wrote:

Vic I noticed in the orders your checked you didn't list the UK, are you able to check any UK orders to give us a rough ETA? As the EU countries listed have a few days difference in them.

Some UK orders:

London, shipped yesterday, Delivery Estimate: September 6
Cumbria, shipped yesterday, Delivery Estimate: September 6
Aberdeen, shipped today, Delivery Estimate: September 6

Not UK:
Ireland, shipped yesterday, Delivery Estimate: September 6

Damn, that's way later than I was imagining. Was hoping to have the copy to read on my travels later this month.

Thanks for the information, I really appreciate the transparency you're showing in regards to this.

I am looking into our ability to offer you the option to cancel your orders. (Note that more than a third of the orders have shipped now, and cannot be stopped.)

The shipping delays are very unfortunate, but I (as probably most) really appreciate your open communication and commitment to give us answers and updates Vic. I guess that's more than official office hours today.

Let's hope the best for everyone and while I hate to read the PDFs, my first impression of the rulebook is very promising.

Just went to my FLGS, and they haven't gotten their pre-orders yet. I had ordered one through Paizo.com and one via my Local Game store.

UPS hadn't made it there yet when I went by, so I'll go back and check later today.

DeathQuaker wrote:

My one note of disappointment is that part of why I order direct through Paizo, in addition to better support the company itself, is so I can avoid using Amazon whenever possible. I understand that when I use Amazon, these "great prices" and low shipping I am getting are on the backs of hundreds of underpaid and often downright abused distribution workers. I would much rather save my money for the things that matter to me and buy from a company that I believe has much better ethical practices, even if it means paying more.

Agreed, however...

DeathQuaker wrote:

By your choosing to use Amazon fulfillment without my consent, you have taken that choice I make for my personal ethics away from me. THAT does bother me a great deal.

This was announced a long time ago, that they would use Amazon for fulfillment of all orders, including those ordered from Paizo.com. So that information was available for everyone to act upon.

*shrug* I missed that. I don't always see all the announcements, depending on how I'm navigating the site. I'm simply giving Paizo my feedback now that I am aware of it, for future reference, for them to take or leave as they are willing and able. I trust they will do whatever they can to accommodate the majority of their customer base (which may not include me, and I accept that).

Honestly, I'll get over it (my disappointment level was higher when I posted, but I hadn't had my morning coffee yet. I keep forgetting I should never post pre-coffee). I'm bummed Paizo got screwed over by Amazon though.

I'm bummed about the shipping delays, but I have to say I was impressed that I was able to download the books promptly at at 9:00am. Kudos to the webteam for their scale-out skills!

i just got the new book but i looks more like starfinder? in meny ways but will keep reading

I've been trying to read the pdf, but all I have now is a headache.

If I continue typing, this will turn into a certifiable rant about all the things I really HATE about this whole experience.

So I'll just shut up now.

Very frustrating, but imo it is Amazon's fault here. Someone should get kicked in the fundamental. Hard. When I read Sept 6 for Queensland, Australia, I swore a bit. We in Australia seem to get the short stick in these matters, but I'm surprised the UK is so slow. Brexit result? (Just joking).

yeahgday wrote:

P.S. is there any eta on Australia?

The earliest I see, 23 hours ago, is going to WA via IPARCEL with a delivery estimate of August 22. The latest, from 2 hours ago, is going to Queensland via IMEX with a delivery estimate of September 6. I also searched for one going to NSW—the first I found shipped yesterday afternoon via DHL with a delivery estimate of August 9.

As a resident of NSW, this gives me hope :)

Cat-thulhu wrote:

Im very curious how the Australian orders are being fulfilled. Amazon US doesnt deal with Australia since we started putting GST on all packages, in fact all reference to Australia has been removed from the US site. Australians MUST operate through amazon australia.

My understanding is that Amazon has chosen not to sell to Australia from other countries because they don't want to deal with the new GST. But Fulfillment by Amazon isn't selling, it's just shipping. Paizo did the selling, and would be responsible for the GST. However, the new GST rules applied to orders placed (not shipped) after July 1, weeks after playtest preorders closed, so we did not need to collect or remit GST on these orders.

Ah, I see. Thanks, Vic. I thought it was triggered by date of payment.

I received mine today. Los Angeles area.

I'm glad I read through this whole thread, and that I was able to find which thread to post to in the first place, somewhat time consuming as I csn't find a way to get the desktop version of the site on my mobile - not really a fan of the mobile version.

Gah.

So, in NSW, Australia here. Ordered the Playtest many months ago. From Paizo directly as I have little to no experience with Amazon nor understood there were other options, perhaps due to naively having figured that this might be some sort of bespoke inside experience and these weren't "products" but testing material.

Shipping was heinously expensive. And I dutifully waited for my package, somewhat alarmed by the email on my birthday (Fri 13th) that it would fulfil. Or something. It wasn't really clear.

Now it won't arrive until (according to this thread) anytimd between August 9 and Sep 6 as estimates.

* If Amazon routinely refund for poor delivery, have them refund me my shipping fee especially as there is a sensitivity around timing and forum based feedback (in terms of wanting to contribute to the conversation at the time) given my playtest players aren't all tech-age nor can they all get equal access. That's the reason I ordered the books, that, and because I wanted to promote Paizo and support them in this endeavour.

TL;DR - Paizo to demand shipping refund from Amazon. Gorbacz to capture Jeff Bezos and demand he pay for it personally after the ship/vessel plunges through Bezos Bunker HQ.

* Not sure, but it seems Paizo could have had a little more oversight/comms with Amazon roomba masters to make sure roombas were packing orders and not all hive-minding at Jeff B's behest to make the best cat playing chopsticks on piano with chopsticks pixel art out of their ownselves and pre- and differently-colored as yet undelivered Paizo packages.

TL;DR - Paizo to hire Inquisitors to find out how this oversight happened at Paizo end. If only PF2 is allowed, maybe Clerics with a dip in...sorry, some Human feats that make you a bit Orcish.

* Is a full refund possible OR plausible? If bookdepository have it cheaper/chesper shipping and with quicker shipping time, that is freakish. How can Paizo know if MY order has been shipped by Amazon? Can Paizo tell me, to allow me to make a "better" choice. I know and trust my experiences with bookdepository.

TL;DR - Help!!! I don't want to make a new order with another company/set of logistics. I want to support Paizo, much as I despise resonance and feat-o-classing and want physical copies to brainwash childr...playtest sooner rather than later to contribute to the forum with actual results rather than just reading about other folks'.

I'd like to first thank Paizo for the transparency and wonderful customer service.

Just a couple questions: Vic, should we expect more 'percent shipped' updates in the other thread? Also, do you have any estimation when all the orders will be shipped?

Can we get at least an estimated delivery date for the US orders?

I've been trying to read the pdf, but all I have now is a headache.

If I continue typing, this will turn into a certifiable rant about all the things I really HATE about this whole experience.

So I'll just shut up now.

I haven’t bothered with the PDF. I am already over this and it’s not even started yet.

There is no way that this is a single-sided/single-department/single-person botch. Paizo has been amazingly diplomatic in their explanations thus far. We will never know the total truth. I’m past caring, to be honest, I just want the books I paid $100 for an August 2 delivery to arrive so I can get on with it.

For those suggesting Paizo should have been across it, my understanding was that they were in (nearly) daily contact with Amazon throughout the process.

Perhaps they misunderstood what Amazon were promising, but I'd be more inclined to think Amazon misrepresented their process (or "misunderstood" what Paizo were asking for).

It's clearly annoying - I don't read PDFs, so putting aside some time next week to read the playtest stuff has turned out to be a waste of effort. But it's not as bad as the initial PACG delivery dramas, the Starfinder CRB binding issue, the Adventurer's Armory "second" Printing, the first printing of the ACG... all controversies that have been and gone.

Personally, I share the aversion stated above to giving Amazon any business on political grounds so I hope this event means an end to using them in the future.

Although I'm irritated/annoyed, I'm nonetheless satisfied with Paizo's response (I'm betting Vic is more annoyed than any of us).

Honestly, I'll get over it (my disappointment level was higher when I posted, but I hadn't had my morning coffee yet. I keep forgetting I should never post pre-coffee). I'm bummed Paizo got screwed over by Amazon though.

That is indeed something I'm sure Paizo is equally bummed about. And while I don't drink coffee myself, it seems to be universally sound advice for all of those who do. ;-)

Just want to bitterly confirm that a friend of mine that preordered through Amazon has all of his stuff today.