Bestiary 4 Preview #1

Devil's Advocate wrote:

Dismemberment is Beowulf's finishing move, not Grendel's.

Grendel dismembered Hrothgar's warriors. Beowulf returning the favor was poetic justice.

I stand corrected.

The translation of Beowulf I read gave the impression that Grendel was mutilating the corpses of the warriors he killed, not actually dismembering them alive.

I agree, the regeneration doesn't make sense when going by the story. Now Grendel's mother on the other hand, Beowulf couldn't kill her until he got that magic sword.

I don't think Grendel's mother is in this bestiary, her name is impossible.

Does she even have a name?

They only ever called her "Grendel's Mother".

Maybe Grendel can't heal from mythic bleed effects.

Doesn't the regeneration notation mean that unarmed strikes and natural weapons are the only kinds of hp damage that do _not_ get regenerated?

Doesn't the regeneration notation mean that unarmed strikes and natural weapons are the only kinds of hp damage that do _not_ get regenerated?

No, it just stops the regeneration for 1 round.

Based upon this, I both can't wait to see and shudder to think of Great Cthulhu's stats.

We're all doomed, and not just because Belkar is acting like a ranger...

Bellona wrote:

Doesn't the regeneration notation mean that unarmed strikes and natural weapons are the only kinds of hp damage that do _not_ get regenerated?

No, it just stops the regeneration for 1 round.

To be more specific, if this was 3.5 regeneration, only unarmed attacks & natural weapons would do lethal damage, all other would do non lethal.

Pathfinder changed regeneration so it works unless you use the specific thing to stop it.

Pretty cool. Not going to literarily nitpick (I could, but I won't); it works for what it needs to be.

While I sigh a little to see a literary monster like this built at such a high CR, it can't be easy to decide on what power level to set something like Grendel. If Paizo sets a monster from myth at low-mid CR (like a hydra, for example), then there's the "X isn't much of a threat, all my characters in Y AP can easily one-shot it and we're not even level 10!" problem. If a monster from myth is set really high, as in the case of Grendel, there's an inflation in the stats and abilities of everyone who faces it, the "Hero Y destroyed monster X, s/he must be really high level!" problem. There's also the problem of matching the myth to the reality of the Pathfinder system, where abilities and actions have to be quantified.

In the end, Pathfinder is a game and the designers, especially now that Mythic came out, are stuck in the position of making up interesting challenges for everyone from a rookie adventurer to a demigod. I don't want, and won't be likely to use, a CR 19 Grendel but I like that Paizo is willing and able to draw from myth and work hard to create memorable and iconic challenges at every level.

+16 will save? That's well in range for a charm/dominate monster.

Hooray! Mythic pet!

While I sigh a little to see a literary monster like this built at such a high CR, it can't be easy to decide on what power level to set something like Grendel. If Paizo sets a monster from myth at low-mid CR (like a hydra, for example), then there's the "X isn't much of a threat, all my characters in Y AP can easily one-shot it and we're not even level 10!" problem. If a monster from myth is set really high, as in the case of Grendel, there's an inflation in the stats and abilities of everyone who faces it, the "Hero Y destroyed monster X, s/he must be really high level!" problem. There's also the problem of matching the myth to the reality of the Pathfinder system, where abilities and actions have to be quantified.

In the end, Pathfinder is a game and the designers, especially now that Mythic came out, are stuck in the position of making up interesting challenges for everyone from a rookie adventurer to a demigod. I don't want, and won't be likely to use, a CR 19 Grendel but I like that Paizo is willing and able to draw from myth and work hard to create memorable and iconic challenges at every level.

That's interesting that you mention the Hydra. Considering it took the most powerful of all demigod heros to defeat it. While Grendel was beaten by a mortal. It seems one way they could have established some consistency is to stat out all of the heros from myth and build the associated monsters accordingly. Though I guess it's a bit too late for that.

What bothers me is more then the arbitrary nature of how powerful some monsters are is the power creep. If you look at the kinds of spells that are cast and monsters that are fought at level 20 it's already beyond epic. When they start upping the effective level cap like in WoW or something things just get ridiculous.

I dunno. Used to be Grendel would have just been a troll with a few barbarian levels. I guess that's just one of the fundamental drawbacks of a level based system. Always have to keep making things ever more extreme to keep the PCs challenged. All starts to get a bit DBZ after awhile though. :/

Grendel would be a great monster for an E6 game at CR 11 or 12.

Do I understand regeneration correctly, and that you can simply get him deep into negative HP to get him unconscious, and then can kill him with a punch to the face?

+16 will save? That's well in range for a charm/dominate monster.

Hooray! Mythic pet!

Better make it a mythic spell, as his Iron Will (Mythic) gives him two rolls and he takes the highest. :)

Arikiel wrote:

I dunno. Used to be Grendel would have just been a troll with a few barbarian levels. I guess that's just one of the fundamental drawbacks of a level based system. Always have to keep making things ever more extreme to keep the PCs challenged. All starts to get a bit DBZ after awhile though. :/

Grendel would be a great monster for an E6 game at CR 11 or 12.

Do I understand regeneration correctly, and that you can simply get him deep into negative HP to get him unconscious, and then can kill him with a punch to the face?

Yes.

Was Grendel always capable of lifting more than 100,000 pounds over his head, like the one shown here?

What display of strength and unstoppable abilities do?

Unstoppable is an ability shared by behemoths (I think) in bestiary 3. I don't remember what it does.

Display of strength adds +20 to a strength check for 1 mythic point, or +20 to carrying capacity for 1 hour per tier for 1 mythic point.

Unstoppable is an ability shared by behemoths (I think) in bestiary 3. I don't remember what it does.

Display of strength adds +20 to a strength check for 1 mythic point, or +20 to carrying capacity for 1 hour per tier for 1 mythic point.

Unstoppable is also a mythic ability, which makes me wonder which ability it's referring to. They both do similar things, but the mythic version is much more powerful and versatile. I suppose we will find out when the book comes out and we can read the full description.

What made Grendel scary wasn't that he could dismember folk, it was that he could sneak into a room full of warriors and kill one of them without the others waking up.

Well, also that nobody could kill him, because he was immune to weapons. It was only because Beowulf was so confident in his own strength that he decided to fight Grendel barehanded, that he was able to win...

Okay so wait, without the mythic things. He doesn't have any supernatural abilities or what? I'm not getting it.

Set wrote:

What made Grendel scary wasn't that he could dismember folk, it was that he could sneak into a room full of warriors and kill one of them without the others waking up.

Well, also that nobody could kill him, because he was immune to weapons. It was only because Beowulf was so confident in his own strength that he decided to fight Grendel barehanded, that he was able to win...

Ooh, way to make the Monk in the party relevant, right there. :)

DR 50/unarmed