The astute among you may have already guessed this is in reaction to an investigator PC using a syringe spear to deliver an infusion of skinsend to an unwilling target.
By RAW, I don't think the target can choose not to accept. Basically, they're under the effect of a Skinsend if struck, although their next round they can take a standard action to dismiss the spell (since they are the "caster," i.e. the unwilling imbiber of the infusion extract). But I'm wondering if I missed something somewhere about whether one has to accept a dismissible personal spell.
And if unable to not accept the spell, the corollary question is: if they dismiss the spell the following round, are they at 1/2 HP, per the spell, or is it as if the spell was never cast? RAW, I think it'd be half hp.
Just trying to wrap my head around this very corner case...
Alchemy (Su)
Investigators are highly trained in the creation of mundane alchemical substances and magical potion-like extracts.
When using Craft (alchemy) to create an alchemical item, an investigator gains a competence bonus equal to his class level on the skill check. In addition, an investigator can use Craft (alchemy) to identify potions as if using detect magic. He must hold the potion for 1 round to attempt such a check.
Like an alchemist, an investigator prepares his spells by mixing ingredients and a tiny fraction of his own magical power into a number of extracts, and then effectively casts the spell by drinking the extract. These extracts have powerful effects, but they are also bound to their creator. Extracts behave like spells in potion form, and as such their effects can be dispelled by dispel magic and similar effects, using the investigator’s level as the caster level.
An investigator can create only a certain number of extracts of each level per day. His base daily allotment of extracts per day is given on Table: Investigator. In addition, he receives bonus extracts per day if he has a high Intelligence score, in the same way a wizard receives bonus spells per day.
When an investigator mixes an extract, he infuses the chemicals and reagents in the extract with magic siphoned from his own magical aura. An extract immediately become inert if it leaves the investigator’s possession, reactivating as soon as it returns to his keeping—an investigator cannot normally pass out his extracts for allies to use. An extract, once created, remains potent for 1 day before losing its magic, so an investigator must reprepare his extracts every day. Mixing an extract takes 1 minute of work.
Creating extracts consumes raw material, but the cost of those materials is insignificant—comparable to the valueless material components of most spells. If a spell normally has a costly material component, that component is expended during the consumption of that particular extract. Extracts cannot be made from spells that have focus requirements; extracts that duplicate divine spells never have a divine focus requirement.
An investigator uses the alchemist formulae list to determine the extracts he can know. An investigator can prepare an extract of any formulae he knows. To learn or use an extract, an investigator must have at least an Intelligence score equal to 10 + the extract’s level. The saving throw DC for an investigator’s extract is equal to 10 + the extract’s level + the investigator’s Intelligence modifier.
An investigator may know any number of formulae. He stores his formulae in a special tome called a formula book. He must refer to this book whenever he prepares an extract. At 1st level, an investigator starts with two 1st-level formulae of his choice, plus a number of additional formulae equal to his Intelligence modifier. At each new investigator level, he gains one new formula for any level that he can create. An investigator can also add formulae to his book just like a wizard adds spells to his spellbook, using the same costs, pages, and time requirements. A formula book costs as much as a spellbook. An investigator can study a wizard’s spellbook to learn any formula that is equivalent to a spell the spellbook contains. A wizard, however, cannot learn spells from a formula book. An investigator can also learn formulae from another investigator’s or an alchemist’s formula book (and vice versa). An investigator does not need to decipher arcane writing before copying that formulae.
Infusion
Benefit: When the alchemist creates an extract, he can infuse it with an extra bit of his own magical power. The extract created now persists even after the alchemist sets it down. As long as the extract exists, it continues to occupy one of the alchemist’s daily extract slots. An infused extract can be imbibed by a non-alchemist to gain its effects.
The Investigator cannot give another person an extract via a syringe spear, the extract must be drunk like a potion. So unless the Investigator is waterboarding his ally/enemy with an extract, the extract must be drunk willingly.
The rules get a little dicey if the Investigator successfully defeats the unwilling ally/enemy's AC on a Called Shot to the stomach with a Syringe Spear tho (or waterboards him)... <---- if this was the case, I would give the unwilling ally/enemy a Fortitude Save DC 10 + Extract Level + Investigator's Int Mod to resist it, but since Skinsend is Personal and has No Save DC that's not an actual rule to make this a Fort Save, that's just how I'd handle that situation.
If your unwilling ally/enemy fails this fort save, then fine, he can dismiss it on his next turn.
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On AoN there is an additional line of text in the Poisoner's gloves:
In the case of a personal infused extract, the opponent receives both a Fortitude save and spell resistance.
That change is in the errata for UE, but I don't see it in the PDF of the second printing of the book.
I think the intention was to make that a general rule for the use of personal range infusions, but Paizo was already working on developing Pathfinder 2, so nothing more was done.
This was a problem with the alchemist too, and is widely considered an exploit.
From a GM view, this largely becomes a "gentleman's agreement" issue. If I was your GM and you opened this can of worms, expect it to be used against your party (the entire party) repeatedly. Or agree to understand that even though some things are technically permitted by the rules, they're not actually good to run as written.
I believe its implied by drinking a potion that you are a willing participant, but there are of course occasions where even you can just make an ally (or enemy) drink a potion because they're unconscious as a full round action.
In theory, by the unconscious clause that makes you a willing participant, it can be assumed that any time you are forcing someone to drink a potion, they're a willing participant. However, that clause doesn't mean you don't make saves against their effects, at least when they're not harmless effects.
That said, its sort of a grey area of whether or not your character can make the decision to save or not while they are unconscious against something that isn't overtly harmful like a potion of poison, a potion of inflict wounds (or cure against an undead, but they can't be unconscious), or even just being fed a poison.
Finally, there is also the original Syringe Spear from Legacy of Fire (called an injection spear at the time), which was loaded with potions of calm emotions to be used on some enraged, giant Gnoll abominations.
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"Willing" doesn't mean you forego an ST. It only means that you are willing for spells that require you to be willing to be a valid target, like Teleport or Dimension Door.
You can always try to make an ST, there are 2 FAQs about that.
Potions: If I drink a potion, do I automatically forgo my save against that potion?
No. Nothing in the potion rules says it changes whether or not you get a saving throw against the spell stored in the potion. Even if someone hands you a potion of poison and tells you it’s a potion of cure serious wounds, you still get a save.
posted March 2012 | back to topReflex Saves: If I’m paralyzed, held, dying, or otherwise completely immobilized or insensate, can I still attempt a Reflex save?
Yes, you can still attempt a Reflex save, but since your Dexterity is set to 0, you’ll have to replace your Dexterity bonus with a –5 penalty, so you’re not likely to succeed. If you do succeed, it might be due to the power of your cloak of resistance, a good angle for cover, or even luck. Either way, follow the rules of the spell for a successful Reflex save, even if this would change your space, like create pit. However, you lose evasion in these circumstances. If you are under the influence of a rare effect that causes you to be immobilized or insensate and allows ongoing Reflex saves to escape the effect, as an exception to the rule, you can use your full Dexterity bonus (instead of a –5 penalty) for the purpose of attempting those ongoing saves only, since your full Dexterity is at work within the confines of the spell, trying to break free.
posted October 2016 | back to top
Misspoke without realizing and added a double negatives, meant to say yeah you still make saves as normal even while a willing participant. But it's also harder to determine sometimes what is normal when unconscious if you would make or choose to fail a saving throw voluntarily.