Way of the Wicked Group 1

Game Master Diamondust

Sit, Eat, Drink. Discuss and Plan your revenge and the downfall of the righteous.

Template Progression

This is what I have got so far. Not all templates are created equally unfortunately. I have tried to balance it and also make it that most if not all of the template abilities are available by level 10ish. It worked out that the weaker looking ones are in group 3 together so hopefully that makes balancing between players easier.

First I recommend completing your crunch without the template, get your gestalt abilities hammered out. Then look at what the template will change or add.

Don't forget that we are using the Elephant in the Room rules to reduce feat taxes. So check the PDF here and see if there are any changes you can use or take advantage of.

As it is now, Araton is essentially all done. I only get the the +20 to a single knowledge check or the visions normally unless you're ruling otherwise. I also only get a +4 Constitution at most, not a +6 like you have written.

I think, in general, I am cool with how the template develop but I would really like to get that big bonus to Knowledge checks to develop faster. Maybe +10 at Level 2 and +20 at Level 5? Of course, I think I'm like everyone else that I am greedy for earlier attribute bonuses but I was wanting Araton to be a bit of a glass cannon when it came to himself.

oh, that con is the total. As in the con +2 becomes a +4 later. Not added to be +6. It's one of the templates lighter on raw power, I am ok with increasing the rate that the bonus increases.

I got you then! Sounds good to me otherwise. I'm excited to get along and meet my nefarious group of miscreants.

I'm excited. Sophia is mostly done. Seeing the template, I'm going to change some ability scores around to avoid the 4 str (although it's funny enough I might keep it...) After work today I'll get to completing her to 100%. Looking forward to working with these fiends!

Araton Fal - Know(religion) is +9 (1 rank + 3 int + 3 class + 2 crime trait). You have vain as a trait, but haven't chosen an extra trait because of it. You are allowed a Crime trait, 2 regular traits, and another trait if you take a drawback. Pass for Half-elf will give you Humanoid (Elf, Human) and Outsider (Native) as your types. I have increased the True Lore bonus to start at +10 and increase by 5 each 5 levels.

I should be able to whip up the crunch today-- I went through the process of making most of it once but forgot to save and lost it when my laptop powered down.

Hello all.

Been looking at the template and applied the things that differed from what you mentioned before.

Only thing I missed was that the Wis as insight bonus to AC has a minimum of +2. It's a pretty big thing for a character with a negative Wisdom modifier.

I also have an idea/suggestion for the Giant template, assuming the player agrees of course, and that is to add the Giant subtype. The sole reason is opening up the list of Giant only feats that have been published by Paizo.

Not 100% sold on Bladud's avatar image, but here's the profile!

I'll get background and stuff captured in there as time permits. :)

LOOKING FORWARD TO THIS!!!!

Will we get the usual stat bonus as we level or does the template override that? Trying to figure out where to put my 3rd low stat since my rolls were one extreme or the other 18,17,16,10,9,8.

Quick question on saves--

I'm Druid 2 // Fighter 1-Barbarian 1

I get the better of saves from each side, but are we using standard multi-class save stacking for one side?

That is- do I have Fort +3/ Ref +0/ Will +3 or Fort +4/ Ref +0/ Will +3 (+2 Barb 1, +2 Fighter 1)?

Happy to be here! I’ll catch up soon during the weekend. :)

Sophia Blair - Perception should be +6 with your trait. What is your favored class? You have 6 inspiration points not 5. Are you choosing cure or inflict spells to gain for your oracle spells known? Will save is should be +3 with your trait. Which bloodline spell are you taking? Have you seen the Fey Creature progression and decided on an ability option to take (there are 9)?

Hilda Don't forget that +2 minimum! I could definitely consider the giant subtype for Grengar.

AGamer70 The usual +1 every 4 levels. Not that a half-balor will be short on ability bonuses. Munchkins are never happy are they.

Gregnar You will have Fort +3/ Ref +0/ Will +3.

Time for bed. More tomorrow!

All of us after getting cool templates, no feat taxes, really good rolls as well. :P

Thanks for taking on such an ambitious goal. I'll adjust my template bonuses. One query I have: Can we allow Charisma to be the spellcasting stat for the template's spell-like abilities? I didn't notice that it was restricted to INT/WIS earlier but I kind of like where I landed with the character.

Edit: I think my crunch should be up to date now.

Anyone know where the campaign traits for this AP are?

I may have missed that earlier. . .

Sophia Blair - Perception should be +6 with your trait. What is your favored class? You have 6 inspiration points not 5. Are you choosing cure or inflict spells to gain for your oracle spells known? Will save is should be +3 with your trait. Which bloodline spell are you taking? Have you seen the Fey Creature progression and decided on an ability option to take (there are 9)?

I'll fix up my Perception and Inspiration when I'm not on mobile. Good catch!

Sorcerer is her favored class.

It looks like there are a couple evil clerics in this party. I'd like to choose cure over inflicts.

Will should be +2. 2 Class + 1 Wis + 1 trait - 2 Crossblooded penalty = +2

Sorcerer bloodline spell will probably be Charm Person at level 3 from the Rakshasa bloodline.

I have seen the Fey Creature template and it all looks good. Still debating 4 Str (apparently the weight difference is 20 lbs) and I'm probably going to end up switching my 8 in Str to the 10 from Dex. The powers I'm looking at are Long Steps and Vanish. I'll have it decided by the time I update her tonight.

@Grengar don Dangnor: Here's a link to those traits, bud. Link. It's at the bottom of the post.

Edit: You can also click on the "Campaign Tab". It has the traits on there as well. I just saw those.

Or, you can go to the player's guide. Player's Guide

And cool! Thanks for picking me up on this one, Thorn!

I'm not exactly sure what the +2 skills means. Does that mean bonus skill points per level? Or is it simply +2 skill points for that level specifically?

And I got to say, well done on the template progression. That is well done indeed.

Yes we'll done indeed! Thanks for the new years gift!

Profile to come.

@Javell-- It's the Background Skills system HERE- you get 2 skill points/level but only for the specific "background" skills.

I just found the Unstoppable racial trait (trades out Hardy for Toughness/+1 fortitude). I'll probably take that instead to shore up my weak Con.

I'm not exactly sure what the +2 skills means. Does that mean bonus skill points per level? Or is it simply +2 skill points for that level specifically?

And I got to say, well done on the template progression. That is well done indeed.

Graveknight gives a +8 Intimidate, Perception and Ride on the full template. You get those bonuses a +2 at a time. That +2 skills is the +2 to those skills.

Grengar should be 99% complete, let me know if there's anything you see missing.

Oh okay! Gotcha. Appreciate that, Hilda. Man I totally forgot about that.
And thank you as well, Grengar!

A happy new year to all of you! And thank you for putting this much trust in us, Thorn. It goes without saying that I'm looking forward to the story we're about to embark on!

Couple questions regarding vampires:

*How does mind control affect being invited into private home?

*Is the +2 skills a one time thing or per level? Is this in addition to the background skills? nvm

Alright, Sophia should be 100% done. I did switch the 8 in Str with the 10 in Dex, so she ended up with 10 Dex and 6 Str with all the modifiers in place.

Thanks for running this really ambitious game, Thorn! And a happy 2021 to everyone.

Fighting Chicken checking in. Ceres should be about there. I still need to figure out a name for my familiar and maybe tweak a couple of skills.

The Broken Soul template looks good to me. As a note, since Asta has a pretty offputting appearance and personality since her transformation into a Broken Soul, I'm going to sink the -6 ability modifier into Charisma. Would it be possible to go ahead and take that penalty now, since it would be indicative of her current physical state and state of mind?

Thanks for running this game, GM, and happy new year all!

Ivy checking in.

Template looks fine, but would it be possible to have her 1/day Change Shape ability at level 2? Mechanically it doesn't really make too much difference, but Ivy was probably using it to hide the 'noticeable' signs of being a half demon succubus.

Could I potentially have the charisma from my template scale a little better? I know that its a huge bonus, but I don't benefit from it in any way - the bonus ironically is just there to help keep my Passion ability DC and the DC of my Spell-Like abilities (that I get from my template) gives me competitive - as they scale off CHA. Its your call and I don't mind too much either way - I'm currently starting of with an 11 in Charisma at present.

Thanks for running this game GM and Happy New Years everyone :)

The Archlich - Seltyiel Renn - heresy - NE - tiefling - cleric (fiendish vessel) - shifter (elementalist) - trompe l'oeil - a fiendish reflection of solomon tyrath

Saashaa - Demian Pirevam - Sedition - NE - elf - psychic - occultist (silksworn) - vampire - led an extravagant life off the exploitation of lessers

Phntm888 - Sarela Falrin - murder - NE - aasimar - mesmerist (vexing daredevil) - vigilante (cabalist) - psychic lich - killed the others to be the best dancer

Spazmodeus - Eowithe Mourngrym - desecration - LE -human - slayer - inquisitor - implacable stalker - born of zeal, reborn of fear

Fanguar - Barnabas Wright - attempted murder - LE - human - unchained monk (black asp) - alchemist (toxicant/vivisectionist) - vampire - assassin who failed an important job

Javell DeLeon - Morthos - high treason - LE - human - antipaladin (knight of the sepulcher/tyrant) - fighter - graveknight - believes he deserves to be king

Hello all! And a happy new year! I think Tawg's sheet is ready to go. Going to get all his information put into his status bar. I'm happy with his template (Broken Soul).

This is the first Gestalt character I've made, and it's definitely a lot more work, but it's fun to see the abilities interact.

I will begin working on the crunch.

EDIT: lolz, I'm rocking a 5 con courtesy of elf and vampire affliction. This is going to be fun. Ohh! and then a 3 at 4th level..

Skills This column of the progression regards bonuses to skills that your template gives(if any). +2 skills means you get a +2 racial bonus to all the skills that the template mentions.

Hilda - You have 1 too many traits, unless you forgot to note down your drawback. I also think you have 1 too many feats. You should have: 2 (level) + 1 (template) + 2 (fighter) + 1 (revelation) = 6. I think acrobatics is only +8? What favoured class and bonuses are you choosing? Also 5 spells per day, don't forget cha bonus.

Bladud - Help me understand knowledge (talinguarde bandits) and why it is a class skill. I would say that sort of information usually comes under knowledge (local) which isn't a background skill. Other than that you're done.

Hjálmarr - You have written Arcane Temper but I think you wanted Armor Expert trait. Reflex is +8. Dwarf speed is 20.

Sophia - Level 2 sorcerer or oracle get +3 will. Wis and Trait cancel out crossblooded penalty so total +3.

Gotta go out. More to come. Lots to check.

Hjálmarr - You have written Arcane Temper but I think you wanted Armor Expert trait. Reflex is +8. Dwarf speed is 20.

Fixed those up. All legacies from before I knew the exact nature of the template or from a character I previously had on this profile. Thanks for checking.

@ Cardinal A. Thorn

One query I have: Can we allow Charisma to be the spellcasting stat for the template's spell-like abilities? I didn't notice that it was restricted to INT/WIS earlier but I kind of like where I landed with the character.

Any comment on this?

Ok. I think I've got my profile all sorted out. There was a bit of finagling with all the feat swapping due to using the alternate feat tax rules, but I think everything is on the up and up.

Might want to modify skills once the party's all set to make sure we cover the bases.

Hilda - You have 1 too many traits, unless you forgot to note down your drawback. I also think you have 1 too many feats. You should have: 2 (level) + 1 (template) + 2 (fighter) + 1 (revelation) = 6. I think acrobatics is only +8? What favoured class and bonuses are you choosing? Also 5 spells per day, don't forget cha bonus.

The Drawback is there, though admittedly in a less than ideal place, between traits and crime. Traits are Dangerously Curious, Reckless and Seeker as well as the Grave Robbery crime trait. Drawback is Unlearned, which in her case she can't make untrained knowledge checks except for knowledge (Religion) or if she has access to a specialised library.

She also has an extra feat from being a Human, landing her at 7 total.

The Acrobatics should indeed be a +8. I tried her with more Dex before and forgot to change the skill when I changed that.

I forgot the favored class. It's Oracle and bonus for the first 2 levels is +1 HP. I will later grab the extra spell of a lower level instead, but that's not that interesting at this point.

I made the changes in her sheet.

Sophia - Level 2 sorcerer or oracle get +3 will. Wis and Trait cancel out crossblooded penalty so total +3.

Ha. Well that's egg on my face. It's fixed, though.

Grengar - Bruising Intellect on a 13 int character is just fantastic and I smiled (avoiding -2 cha I know). Exotic Weapon Proficiency is not needed, you can take Weapon Proficiency (Axes) instead. Swim is +11. What language did you take for your int bonus?

Saashaa - Hmm I would say they would attempt it but be unable to follow that order. Perhaps get another save to whatever spell they are under.

Sophia - Excellent your crunch is done.

Ceres - Sure, -6 cha there you go, i have added a slightly altered template for you. The hair attack is a natural attack so you can take Weapon Focus (Natural), from the fighter weapon group instead. Everything else is good.

Ivy - Planes and Arcana are +11, from the Witchcraft trait. Which formulae are in your formula book and what spells known in your familiar?

Tawg - There is no character sheet in your profile.

Barnabus Wright - Your resistances from vampire are only 2. Fort is +4. Stealth is +10 from the vampire +2 bonus. Vivisectionist give you Deathwatch and you get another 1st level formula at level 2.

Hjálmarr - Charisma is the norm for what creatures in the bestiary use for spell-likes. So yes, use Charisma. Your crunch is done now.

Hilda - My eyes failed me. Your crunch is done.

This is great, only 2 players haven't checked into this discussion thread yet. 3 characters are completed and I've checked half of you already. I will be creating the other 2 campaigns, perhaps tomorrow, and we may then be able to start introducing yourselves as you are chained together.

Bladud - Help me understand knowledge (talinguarde bandits) and why it is a class skill. I would say that sort of information usually comes under knowledge (local) which isn't a background skill. Other than that you're done.

Oh, that was my attempt at incorporating the Lore skill from the background skills list. I kind of had to wrangle that into HeroLabs as a custom-made Knowledge skill.

On the PFSRD site, one of their examples of an appropriate Lore skill is "Bandits of an area", which seemed to make sense given how I had written up his time as a thug for the Master.

If I've misunderstood or mis-implemented how that's supposed to be used, I can re-assign them to some other background skill.

let me know what I need to do. I'm open to suggestions. Thanks!

Another question for my fellow DON'T NEED A RIDE! table-members:

Hjálmarr Magnusson half-fiend
Razmir half-balor
Aelwulf half-balor
Ivy Solikha half-succubus
"Lady" Sophia Blair fey-touched

So I'm running with the idea that Bladud is supposed to be this hard-to-take-down melee behemoth, meaning I'm doubling down on the Superstitious rage power. Kind of a "YOURE MAGIC IS USELESS, MITRAN!" thing.

This does leave Bladud with tons of HP and a pretty low-ish AC, though. Are any of you planning to have some means to heal through Bladud's raging superstition?

Or should I spend some of my (very generous amount of) feat / rage power options for some personal healing? (Like the Renewed Vigor + Regeneratie Vigor).

I'm not asking for you guys to make special arrangement to help keep my guy on his feet. I'm more asking if you guys were planning on having an ability already built-in (like a Cleric's Channel to heal ... which seems unlikely since we're all Evil).

Let me know.

Thorne: On that same note, can we use the Infernal Healing spell(s) in this game? that could be clutch for Bladud bringing his own heals.

Updated Swim to +11, weapon proficiency (Axes), and added languages to the skills section-- going with Giant for my language.

I have basically to remove the enter painting from my sheet for now, and review the skills - other than that I think he’s solid :)

Bladud I get it now. Never seen Lore get put into action before. I will allow it. Infernal healing will be an option.

Bladud and Grengar are both ready now too.

My inquisitor/slayer implacable stalker is done.

Bladud I get it now. Never seen Lore get put into action before. I will allow it. Infernal healing will be an option.

Bladud and Grengar are both ready now too.

Very cool. And thanks! I’ll switch it to say “Lore: Talingarde Bandits” instead of Knowledge. And yeah, I struggled to figure out what his other BG skill was going to be. Nothing really jumped out as appropriate for Bladud’s story as I had written it. I guess Profession: Torture could have worked, but that’s kind of redundant with his focus on Intimidate.

If they end up being wasted skill points ... well, that’s on me, I guess. /shrug

Barnabus Wright - Your resistances from vampire are only 2. Fort is +4. Stealth is +10 from the vampire +2 bonus. Vivisectionist give you Deathwatch and you get another 1st level formula at level 2.

All fixed. Thanks for catching those.

Ceres - Sure, -6 cha there you go, i have added a slightly altered template for you. The hair attack is a natural attack so you can take Weapon Focus (Natural), from the fighter weapon group instead. Everything else is good.

Ok, changes made. Thank you, Thorn!

I'm more asking if you guys were planning on having an ability already built-in (like a Cleric's Channel to heal ... which seems unlikely since we're all Evil).

Unfortunately I don't have any healing planned aside from maybe picking up Cure Light Wounds. I may swap out Charm Person for that depending on if we need it or not. That may be a good idea anyway thematically (near term goody two shoes shouldn't be charming people with spells).

Edit: It occurs to me it might be useful to summarize where I envision my character going mechanically.