In the Ultimate Combat, it says that when the ninja uses her Hidden Master ability, she cannot be detected by "any means". It mentions spells like see invisibility and such, but no mention of things like blindsight, scent or other abilities. Any means would indicate that she's simply not there, and you cannot see her no matter what.
I'm well aware that an area dispel magic or something would work to dispel the effect, or hitting her with an area effect. The problem is that by the rules, you have no idea where she hit you from, or if she's moved off or whatever. Hitting the ninja with an area effect is improbable at best.
Bottomline, I believe that this ability is broken as h*ll. I may be wrong, but I'm hoping you wonderful smart people on the forums can clarify for me.
it is a level 20 ability it is supposed to be uber powerful and they are ninjas!
it is a level 20 ability it is supposed to be uber powerful and they are ninjas!
^^That^^ he's a friggin 20th level ninja. get over it.
In the Ultimate Combat, it says that when the ninja uses her Hidden Master ability, she cannot be detected by "any means". It mentions spells like see invisibility and such, but no mention of things like blindsight, scent or other abilities. Any means would indicate that she's simply not there, and you cannot see her no matter what.
I'm well aware that an area dispel magic or something would work to dispel the effect, or hitting her with an area effect. The problem is that by the rules, you have no idea where she hit you from, or if she's moved off or whatever. Hitting the ninja with an area effect is improbable at best.
Bottomline, I believe that this ability is broken as h*ll. I may be wrong, but I'm hoping you wonderful smart people on the forums can clarify for me.
Totally agree and said so in the playtest, especially compared to the rogue's "uber powerful" capstone ability which ... has a Fort save and can only be used once per enemy per day.
But the standard response seems to be "they are ninjas!" which justifies everything. :P
it is a level 20 ability it is supposed to be uber powerful and they are ninjas!
Uber powerful and broken are two different things. This is a game breaker. A ninja with this ability could single handily kill Nyrissa at the end of the Kingmaker adventure path without much of a problem. Like I said, I'm up for being corrected, or someone saying "No, this is how you defeat such power" but the "any means" quote essentially says you're going to get sneak attacked to death, no matter how powerful you are because you have no idea what square I'm in on the battle grid, even though I'm standing right next to you.
it is a level 20 ability it is supposed to be uber powerful and they are ninjas!Uber powerful and broken are two different things. This is a game breaker. A ninja with this ability could single handily kill Nyrissa at the end of the Kingmaker adventure path without much of a problem. Like I said, I'm up for being corrected, or someone saying "No, this is how you defeat such power" but the "any means" quote essentially says you're going to get sneak attacked to death, no matter how powerful you are because you have no idea what square I'm in on the battle grid, even though I'm standing right next to you.
spoiler! I haven't played kingmaker.
no mention of things like blindsight, scent or other abilities
Wouldn't be very über if any mutt could sniff you out. It's a capstone achievement. I probably won't lose any sleep over it.
Meh I'm not worried because my a level 5 alchemist has 75% protection from the ninja even when he's unconscious.
My level 20 sorcerer is simply out right immune from the ninja, as is a level 20 armor master fighter.
Level 20 barbarian? Him too -- oh and so is the level 16 barbarian.
it is a level 20 ability it is supposed to be uber powerful and they are ninjas!the "any means" quote essentially says you're going to get sneak attacked to death, no matter how powerful you are because you have no idea what square I'm in on the battle grid, even though I'm standing right next to you.
you just described the dictionary definition of a ninja my friend!
you just described the dictionary definition of a ninja my friend!it is a level 20 ability it is supposed to be uber powerful and they are ninjas!the "any means" quote essentially says you're going to get sneak attacked to death, no matter how powerful you are because you have no idea what square I'm in on the battle grid, even though I'm standing right next to you.
You are making me laugh, despite my anger at your non-helpful comments Lobo :). And thanks Abraham for pointing out the barbarian thing and such, I had forgotten about that.
You are making me laugh, despite my anger at your non-helpful comments Lobo :). And thanks Abraham for pointing out the barbarian thing and such, I had forgotten about that.you just described the dictionary definition of a ninja my friend!it is a level 20 ability it is supposed to be uber powerful and they are ninjas!the "any means" quote essentially says you're going to get sneak attacked to death, no matter how powerful you are because you have no idea what square I'm in on the battle grid, even though I'm standing right next to you.
your welcome, lol i have no idea about the capstone ability it is pretty situation specific