Oh god... Zag sleeping with the maids was bad enough, now I have an african witch seducing a roman prostitute and potenitally a Wallachian Princess and a Japanese Geisha getting up to things...
Lucius is FAR too old for this!
Vote for Rome - unsurprisingly.
*Adds Enochian as another language for Lucius to pick up* (By my count, at 2 languages per linguistics level and the 5 or so he began with Lucius can speak 20 something languages now... am I going overboard?)
Haha! Super polyglot
So, it looks like we have probably a majority of votes for Rome.
Did we lose Algoral?
Rome
Cool. Let's stay in Rome.
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Lucius' third incarnation is ready.
I've gone archery focused, since that seemed to be something the party was missing.
A few oddities in the build.
1. I've used fractional BAB/Saves and taken originaly monk levels rather than UnMonk since it seemed more Lucius.
2. Dies Irae is now a Longbow.
3. I've voluntarily not taken the fast movement class feature - Lucius isn't that fast!
4. I've assumed Quinlan could craft Lucius a headband of Wis +4 at cost. If not I can change that. I've also dropped the Inquisitor's Mail since I'm not longer armour proficient.
Ihrin is just teaching the girl to better protect her new liege lord
GM could I ask, what was the name [Real] of the Underworld Dragon Lord P helped get into the Dream lands
Hm. I was expecting another day or so IRL to make preparations.
So, Toshiro's spell list for this day:
1st: Wave Shield x2, Bless x2, Cheetah's Sprint x2
2nd: False Life, Grace, Remove Paralysis, Resist Energy x2, See Invisibility
3rd: Haste x2 (replaces Fireball as poached Wizard spell), Call Lightning, Fly, Cure Serious Wounds
4th: Dismissal, Enervation x2 (replaces Acid Pit as poached Wizard Spell),
5th: Cone of Cold (replaces Teleport), Breath of Life
Bought Items:
Ring of Eloquence (3500 gp. Languages: English, Latin, Arabic, German)
I had wanted to cast Legend Lore to find out about Wormwood. The casting would have taken days.
Volley after volley, Lucius' arrows bounce off the steely red scales like rain off a slate roof! Not a single arrow finds its mark in the past half minute of firing! The dragon seems not to even notice the arrows bouncing off its hide...
17, 23, 14
11, 14, 725, 15, 5
25, 22, 9
30, 18, 11
24, 35, 20
Not even the 30 or 35 hit?
O.O
GM could I ask, what was the name [Real] of the Underworld Dragon Lord P helped get into the Dream lands
It was Dagamasu (Daggermouth).
I am gonna have to look at my spells and see what will help against this thing
Right... it at least has an AC of 36 then... MJ there has been much anticipation on this battle, since the beginning almost, please don’t let the npcs be the heroes this time.
I can post in the morning.
I'm a little afraid for the NPCs this time, honestly lol... I think they will need you guys to be the heroes...
Don't suppose there's any chance that a storm is already brewing, is there?
Don't suppose there's any chance that a storm is already brewing, is there?
In winter, during the "Little Ice Age", as historians would call this era... In the Mediterranean... Let's say about a 40% chance of storm each hour... 01-40 on % dice equals storm... ... okay, so it's not storming yet...
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I put this in my gameplay but it is buried a bit. Calling it out here:
Any to-hit buffs, would be wonderful, friends! We need them badly. I am pretty sure I can't hit without a natural 20, and I have a strength of 22, full BAB, and a +3 weapon. Perhaps after this round we all retreat, regroup, and get bless, heroism, and anything else that would help. Also, any debuffs that pull down his AC are needed. Debuffs against his to-hit won't help. He will hit us on a natural 2, most likely.
I put this in my gameplay but it is buried a bit. Calling it out here:
Any to-hit buffs, would be wonderful, friends! We need them badly. I am pretty sure I can't hit without a natural 20, and I have a strength of 22, full BAB, and a +3 weapon. Perhaps after this round we all retreat, regroup, and get bless, heroism, and anything else that would help. Also, any debuffs that pull down his AC are needed. Debuffs against his to-hit won't help. He will hit us on a natural 2, most likely.
Those of us who don't absolutely have to try to stay back at range could all get into melee and stack up Aid Another actions for one person's attack roll.
It's very easy to hit AC 10 to succeed on Aid Another. How many could we have doing that? Whatever that number is, x2 and that's the bonus we could give to one of Johann's attacks each round, for example.
Yeah, I only have Enlarge person and possibly situational spells like Fog Cloud ect. A downside of a Witch.
However I am gonna try to summon a few elementals to fight them
Then if we retreat get some buffs from local priests..ie bulls Strength, Cats Grace ect.
Also Ihrin is gonna try to stay on the dragon and smash some of the snowglobes on this things hide
And all across the Known World, glorious epic battles are unfolding!
As the Champions of Rome battle Wormwood, the heroes of Paris fight off Grünerraver, while the Norse heroes of Nidaros fight off the white wyrm Eisenbacken, and the brave Byzantine guards try to ward off the lightning of the blue wyrm assaulting Constantinople! A worldwide dragon holocaust!
Only the Black Wyrm of the Aztec Jungle is left out, due to distance and geography...
trifecta quadfecta
;-)
trifectaquadfecta;-)
Ya, I caught that too lol
However I am gonna try to summon a few elementals to fight them.
They're fairly intelligent, right? Get a group of weaker ones and have them all do Aid Another!
Its CMD is guaranteed to be higher than its AC, so your rolls don't matter a whole ton. You're in "only succeed on a 20" range in either case, so why not go for it?
Edit: Ah, with Greater Heroism the equation does change slightly. And I forgot you have Grab.
Are you including the +4 on Grapple checks from Grab? People tend to forget that one a lot.
Creatures with the grab special attack receive a +4 bonus on combat maneuver checks made to start and maintain a grapple.
Let me know when you want Lord P to come deal with the Dragon. :)
Habiba, I think you still need to roll a caster level check against the dragon's spell resistance.
DO it
Fighting creatures with SR I can't bust even with Spell Penetration, a boosted caster level, and a rolled 16 is disheartening.
Try being 1' tall and able to do NOTHING to this Dragon,
yet still Lord P will have a go. hehe
Impressive victory for your Pcs over a CR 19 foe! Everyone level up to 10th level!
Good timing, too, as he would surely have killed someone in the next two or three rounds... Bishop Vitelleschi first, and then the PCs one by one...
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I can’t say I’m too happy. The battle was won by an NPC and a couple of last minute OP items given to us by an NPC.
I do not feel like a hero. This feels wrong. It ended in what... 3 rounds. 18 seconds. That is not epic. I’ve been looking forward to this battle for months. But I don’t even think our PCs even mattered one iota here.
I think I’m going to take a short leave of absence if that is okay. Perhaps Johann goes back to the Black Forest to check on his friends now that the imminent threat is ended. I’ll send a PM after I’ve cooled off and if the game looks to be going in the right direction. Best regards, everyone.
Sorry this encounter was unsatisfying/frustrating. I should have seen that coming, considering the huge difference in APL and the CR.
It might make more sense if you consider that I didn't intend for this to be your final fight against Wormwood, but rather a frightening introduction in which you meet, try to hurt him for a few rounds, realize he's still out of your league, and have him fly off after doing some damage so you can finally meet again around level 15 or so and put a final end to him.
I can see how this plan backfired, and I apologize. I thought of fudging to make it last longer, have him knock out or kill Vitelleschi, and let your PCs be the heroes that chase him off, but it goes against my fundamental GMing philosophy to fudge things even for story sake. I prefer to let the dice fall as they will and work it out.
The snow globes were OP, yes, but at 9th level, I felt I needed to give you SOMETHING you could affect the dragon with. 5d6 would actually have been a fairer damage rating than 10d6 and would have stretched things out longer... But the longer this fight went on, the greater the chance for PC deaths, which I was definitely thinking would happen. His melee attacks are just gross against 9th level Pcs, and I'm pretty sure a TPK would have been even more unfair feeling.
Anyway, I hope you will come back after a break, Johann. I enjoy gaming with you, and am committed to making this campaign fun for everyone. I take your feedback seriously, and use it to hopefully improve the game for all.
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I'll echo Johann and say I was worried about this fight. The fact that, as you declared, it was a CR 19 fight means this was always going to be impossible for most PC's. The fact that the only PC who could have done something under his own power (more or less) was Lucius, and even then only because of the number of self-buffs he can achieve. Heck he needed 23 to hit without buffs!
The SR was actually out of our casters range even on a nat 20, Johanns +36 to grapple could still barely have caught a dragon of Wormwood's size...
I think if the idea was for us to poke him and then hide then it needed to be a bit clearer IC. Have Vitelleschi tell us that we aren't equipped for this, have the Pope ask us NOT to fight it because he can't risk any more of the cities defenders etc. If Vitelleschi had gone up against the dragon alone, hurt it and then been killed we could have rushed from hiding as a second line of defense, then Wormwood (presumably already badly hurt) could retreat after a lucky hit to lick his wounds. We're still heroes, Vitelleschi dies a valiant death and it feels a bit more triumph against the odds...
Just my suggestions - I'd never consider running something this vast in scope and scale so my hat remains firmly off to you sir. :)
See you soon Johann!
It's fair to say I sometimes bite off more than can be chewed with the scope of my ideas, and what sometimes looks really cool abd fun to me on paper turns out to be a train wreck in play (the Black Pyramid, etc).
Even though I like to think I'm pretty good at this after 30+ years, as this dragon fight and other incidents have proven, I am far from infallible as a GM. But, I am always open to constructive criticism and advice, which is how we grow and shore up our weaknesses.
From now on, I will be careful to let the PCs be the heroes, and tie up the more powerful NPCs with other problems so they don't steal the spotlight. That's a classic error of inexperienced GMs, and I shouldn't have let it happen in my game. Apologies to all.
I feel I should ask at this point, since it would be the ideal spot for a brief intermission, if we want one...
How many of you are feeling a little burned out on my manic-paced game? Lol... Feel free to be honest, I wouldn't ask if I didn't want an honest answer. Obviously GM Moustache. I know Keante and Nikolaus just had a little break, but maybe some of you have been thinking a breather would low you to come back refreshed in, say, a week from now?
I'm a maniac, and am still greatly enjoying myself GMing for such awesome RPers as I have here with you all, so I am ready to keep rocking and have days worth of content. So just let me know if a brief hiatus would be nice or no...
I am going to be Honest here Michael Johnson, So bear with me, has this may hurt.
Your going to need a tip on GMing, From ME of all people, shocker that that is but here it is.
Tip 1
**Don't GM and Play in your own games.**
Ok, I have noted for a while you like to interject Marry Jane NPCs into game play. In fact with Puss,N,Boots and most of all this Dragon fight, its safe to say you had more fun with your NPCs[Your PCs] then we have with our PCs.[Who felt like NPCs]
Your going to have to stop being a sudo-player in your own game.
Don't get me wrong, you did not set out to do this BUT, Its easily done, you think I'll just help them out with this NPC, but... then you do a little to much and maybe show off what your NPC can do.
And before you know it you have falling into the trap of playing your own game.
I mean it, your having a great time, we not so much, I for one feel lost at times with so many NPC Alt posts.
You see in place of being grateful to an NPC who has given us a nudge, or hint, end up looking on helplessly as over powered NPC to fight an powered Big Bad.
So, stop, stop with the endless cool NPCs you like to make and then drop on us.
Its ok to have them back storying plot points. But in main game play they should have the lightest of touches, only there to advice, or guild but not DO what the PCs should be doing. It Brakes the game.
There are so many ways you could have gone with this. If as you say we where meant to fight it again, then you could have had us fight it and most of us die, we get resurrected and now have to go get powered up to have another go.
Now, all we need do is wait for a super powered GM NPC to come save the day, we will just look on with PopCorn.
See what I mean.
"Here endeth the lesson"
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Pope Eugenius and Rumpelstiltskin are good NPC examples. They help out, send the occasional care package and are helpful and characterful without ever really doing a lot.
On the other hand Bishop V, Puss-in-Boots etc have completely run combats. Without Bishop V the Wormwood fight would go 20 rounds or more (if we survived that long!) and that would be one heck of a boss fight. Ogon only survived a fight because of Puss driving off his assassin - cool, but the kind of thing that should only happen once whereas I get the impression that Puss was almost indispensable during the Japan section.
I think Panic had it right - in the hierarchy of gameplay it should be PC's first, NPC's well behind. I like the posts about Flamel and Puss defending Paris - that's cool and doesn't impact us at all. Bishop V on the other hand did all of our heavy lifting.
Never thought of it this way before but perhaps the rule that NPC's should never roll dice is a good one. Pope Eugenius helped with Wormwood - a greater heroism effect on the PC's is helpful and made the fight a possibility - great! Bishop V did over half Wormwood's HP if not more - that's too much. He's a PC there, more than a PC even. NPC's getting a little cameo to do something cool like behind Paris - great. Them turning up to kill-steal us, not so good.
Fundamentally everyone at the table is an egoist - we want to be the heroes. Tough thing about being a GM is letting the players do it!
A break would be fine, as long as we can do non combat stuff here and there
I am going to be Honest here Michael Johnson, So bear with me, has this may hurt.
Your going to need a tip on GMing, From ME of all people, shocker that that is but here it is.
Tip 1
**Don't GM and Play in your own games.**Ok, I have noted for a while you like to interject Marry Jane NPCs into game play. In fact with Puss,N,Boots and most of all this Dragon fight, its safe to say you had more fun with your NPCs[Your PCs] then we have with our PCs.[Who felt like NPCs]
Your going to have to stop being a sudo-player in your own game.
Don't get me wrong, you did not set out to do this BUT, Its easily done, you think I'll just help them out with this NPC, but... then you do a little to much and maybe show off what your NPC can do.
And before you know it you have falling into the trap of playing your own game.
I mean it, your having a great time, we not so much, I for one feel lost at times with so many NPC Alt posts.You see in place of being grateful to an NPC who has given us a nudge, or hint, end up looking on helplessly as over powered NPC to fight an powered Big Bad.
So, stop, stop with the endless cool NPCs you like to make and then drop on us.
Its ok to have them back storying plot points. But in main game play they should have the lightest of touches, only there to advice, or guild but not DO what the PCs should be doing. It Brakes the game.There are so many ways you could have gone with this. If as you say we where meant to fight it again, then you could have had us fight it and most of us die, we get resurrected and now have to go get powered up to have another go.
Now, all we need do is wait for a super powered GM NPC to come save the day, we will just look on with PopCorn.
See what I mean.
"Here endeth the lesson"
Thank you for the lesson GM Panic. I admit that even after 35 years of gaming, I still have things to learn. You and others have instructed me with patience and kindness, and I appreciate it.
Lesson learned, and going forward, I will occupy the many NPCs that are still more powerful than the PCs with other problems, because God knows there are enough evil plots going on elsewhere to keep them busy.
Pope Eugenius and Rumpelstiltskin are good NPC examples. They help out, send the occasional care package and are helpful and characterful without ever really doing a lot.
On the other hand Bishop V, Puss-in-Boots etc have completely run combats. Without Bishop V the Wormwood fight would go 20 rounds or more (if we survived that long!) and that would be one heck of a boss fight. Ogon only survived a fight because of Puss driving off his assassin - cool, but the kind of thing that should only happen once whereas I get the impression that Puss was almost indispensable during the Japan section.
I think Panic had it right - in the hierarchy of gameplay it should be PC's first, NPC's well behind. I like the posts about Flamel and Puss defending Paris - that's cool and doesn't impact us at all. Bishop V on the other hand did all of our heavy lifting.
Never thought of it this way before but perhaps the rule that NPC's should never roll dice is a good one. Pope Eugenius helped with Wormwood - a greater heroism effect on the PC's is helpful and made the fight a possibility - great! Bishop V did over half Wormwood's HP if not more - that's too much. He's a PC there, more than a PC even. NPC's getting a little cameo to do something cool like behind Paris - great. Them turning up to kill-steal us, not so good.
Fundamentally everyone at the table is an egoist - we want to be the heroes. Tough thing about being a GM is letting the players do it!
Thank you Niklaus, good advice, as always. You have given me food for thought, so let's take a short break and cool off, let me digest your instructions and complaints, take them to heart, and make progress and growth out of them.
I believe we will all be better for it. I will keep an eye on things as we recreation and be a better GM than ever when we start up with The Lost Mines of Solomon. There will be no NPCs to steal your thunder in Africa, I promise! ;)
NPC's down in Africa bless the rains rather than steal the thunder! :D
Lmao!!
What is the exact amount of XP we get so I can level and maybe level again? Cause Ihrin is going into fighter next and specializing in Katana and two weapon fighting
Yeah, I agree with Panic, and that this fight was a bit of a let down. If we were meant to lose the fight, I would actually rather you have us LOSE the fight than be bailed out by strong NPCs and their superior combat prowess.
Hell, there's any number of ways you could have continued the campaign after we all die. Rome burns down, the bad guys wins. But maybe we get a stay of execution from some angels, a planar adventure with a quest that culminates in our resurrection. Or Pope Eugenius Miracles us back to life....but the city is still destroyed.
Basically, "you lose, but..." with some lasting consequences. Losing in an interesting way is always more fun than winning in an unsatisfying one.
One of my favorite sessions of any game was earlier this year: the GM torqued an undead boss a little too high, and it killed a character and snowballed from there. We tried to flee after it killed Nanok, our strongest party member, and came up with a plan for the Witch to cast Web on a corridor while the NPC Ninja and my character (a Spiritualist) were running up it, figuring we both had the Dex to get through easily. My character failed his Reflex save and got caught in the webs, with the undead slowly creeping up behind him; he's beheaded in one shot as the Witch is the sole survivor of the actual party.
It was dramatic, harrowing, had a lot of great RP (my character telling the ninja NPC, who we had previously HATED for starting a conflict earlier, to save herself since it was too late for him is a highlight for me)...and was ultimately a complete disaster of a combat.
But it was fun, and I think there was potential for something like that here which was missed out on.
As more general critique on the SPEED of the game...I've always had an issue keeping up with your posting speed your games are the polar opposite of most games on this site (which have periods of starts and stops...which I admit full guilt for in games I GM too), and moves along at a breathtaking clip. I often look at "35 new" and decide I just can't handle it right now, because I only really post in between paragraphs for work (I'm freelance writing now, and popping over for a quick 5 minuet PbP session is a great recharge after every 1000 words or so). It's just mentally draining to see that many posts at once and know that a conversation I was having or had wanted to have with another player or an NPC has just been blown past in the last 8 hours.
That's my 2 cp on the matter. Love you as a GM, you make some really interesting games, but sometimes things get flubbed, and I think the frantic pace makes any flub feel even bigger than it actually is since there's not as much time to process it before we're shooting off to the next thing.